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What beloved developers or franchises do you have an unpopularly low opinion of?

AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,313
edited November 2019 in General Gaming
I've always disliked Bethesda, long before it became cool to do so. But now that my criticisms of the company's poor product quality for a company of their resources and scale have been made mainstream through Fallout 76, that opinion is now just... a fact, or at least a consensus.

So that got me thinking. What other franchises or developers enjoy a similarly high reputation that may not actually be the benchmarks of quality that they are credited for?

For me, my immediate answer is Pokemon.

The Pokemon franchise is literally the most profitable entertainment IP in existence. So why, then, does the franchise put forth so little effort?

Every gen is the same basic story with the same basic mechanics, with just new (increasingly stupid looking) pokemon in a new setting.

The story still sucks.

Terrible, unintuitive, and outdated mechanics like EVs and IVs still gate off competitive play and make min-maxing an unfun chore.

The only significant combat changes are through gimmicks like Mega Evolutions, Z-moves, and gigantimaxing. 

The franchise still only allows for one save slot (wtf).

The franchise still has the gall to charge for two separate and near-identical versions of itself - now at full AAA console game price.



Nintendo has a reputation for playing it safe, but that's really just Pokemon.

Mario is the only major platformer to be successful in both 2D and 3D and does so with wildly unique and game-defining mechanics like Cappy and the FLOOD. The sheer difference in quality and ingenuity in the Mario franchise compared to his platforming peers is astounding. Mario soars while Sonic embarassingly faceplants over and over again.

Fire Emblem has never played it safe and its willingness to experiment with new mechanics has created Nintendo's most divided fanbase. Recently, it's gone so far as to embrace Persona style social mechanics, to great success. And the result was one of the best games (and the best selling game) in the series, full stop. 

Zelda has proven itself willing to scrap dungeons, go open world, and embrace survival mechanics. And while that's certainly controversial, it was done well and is a great game (even if not "a great Zelda game").

So here we have Pokemon Sword and Shield. Does it make any leaps forward or experiment similarly? No. It's actually a step backward. With HALF of the Pokedex cut, along with many moves, Pokemon has actually cut corners and made an inferior game, while charging more for it. For the biggest franchise in the world, that's fucking pathetic.
Post edited by Aeander on
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Comments

  • MargaretavilleMargaretaville Member UncommonPosts: 72
    edited November 2019
    For me it's a really close tie between Electronic Arts and Derek Smart.

    Close second is John Smedley.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    I have so much hate. We could replace all the oil from fracking with my hate. This is probably not healthy for me.

    NCSoft, where "soft" means they are soft on enforcing the EULA. Cheating galore. 

    Daybreak. Whiffed on Everquest Next with an assist from SOE. Hates it foreeeeeever.

    John Smedley.  Should be helping to get us to the Next Big Thing. Fights with teenie bopper hackers instead. Dumbass.

    I have love/hate for Brad McQuaid. Where Pantheon is by end of 2020 will tell where that needle points.

    Mythic: Warhammer Online. The most overhyped trash I have ever encountered.

    Blizzard - for everything post WOLK.

    Simutronics - for pretending to make Hero's Journey while just using the "game" as a product demo for an engine. Phony.

    Gosh I could go on. But at some point I will start drawing angrily on the wall with a crayon clenched between my toes.
    newbismxjimmywolfKyleran

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,851
    I don't think that there are any broadly beloved games or developers.  The market is just too fragmented.  A game that 10% of English-speaking gamers buy and enjoy is an enormous hit, to say nothing of the worldwide market for games.
    Sovrath
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    ArenaNet and GW2
    anemoGobstopper3D
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  • TimukasTimukas Member UncommonPosts: 758
    Bioware, ArenaNet.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,313
    edited November 2019
    Arterius said:
    Rockstar. I have never liked any of there games save for Red Dead Redemption 1. The fact that they added an actual casino in GTA5 didn't help matters
    I agree. I find their games overdetailed in ways that make them much less fun to play as games (because of lavish looting animations, tank controls, survival mechanics, etc.) while failing to provide quality experiences where it actually matters (such as shooting mechanics).

    I've always thought of GTA and RDR as being bad games polished up with the largest possible budget.
    [Deleted User]
  • WarWitchWarWitch Member UncommonPosts: 351
    Those who killed SWG after we sent them over a million player patition and a bad change. Now they're shut down. And lost a beloved game.
    Amathe
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,938
    Borderlands and Torchlight. Both series are meh with a capital M for me.

    /Cheers,
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    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,313
    Nyctelios said:
    I don't have an unpopular dislike towards an entire series. I'm not the only one who dislikes all Fifas or NBA's for their lack of innovation and release state, also throwing rocks at EA is a very common thing to do these days.

    With one weird exception...

    The "Warriors" series. (Dinasty warriors and such).

    I don't "hate" those games. I just don't see the appeal. And I have to make effort to even talk with people who like it because to me those games are brain dead: only press 1 button and lights, flashes, things dies, brain dead AI, and the game pats on your shoulder "good boy/girl, you did good". The series is everything I don't like in games in general.

    One could argue they are meant as an entry level for certain types of players, but the issue is that's not the case: hardcore fans defend them as if they are challenging or something. So I just stay really far away from that series and their fandom.

    I have unpopular dislike for certain famously well received titles tho; For example, I don't like FF7.
    I don't like the story, I think the characters are boring and the game takes too long to go anywhere meaningful. I don't hate it, I don't think it's a bad game either... It's just... *points at FF6* it's a step back, I'm sorry.

    And despite being a Pokémon fan from long time... I agree with you now, OP. From some years already I just don't care about them anymore. I mean, Pokkén Tournament was the only fresh step moving the series forward in terms of gameplay... And now they release another turn based with bare bones animations that follows the same routine... sigh.

    But the deal is: Pokémon is not meant for us. So there is that.
    As a Dynasty Warriors fan (moreso a fan of the spinoffs), I don't defend them as "challenging." In fact, I wouldn't enjoy them if they were.

    What they are is stress killers. They make you feel empowered, and they give you hundreds of hours of content, while being one of the last remaining bastions of split screen co-op. 

    There are legitimate criticisms to be made of the series. For example, the mainline entries recycle a LOT of assets, and their tendency to make XTreme Legends editions of every game is not consumer friendly. But lack of difficulty is not one of those valid criticisms; it's not the point.
    Gutlard
  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Member RarePosts: 3,476
    FUNCOM

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,942
    DMKano said:
    Hmm when it comes to developers- none I can think of because at least they are attempting to create and make something even if they fail at it.

    Now publishers on the other hand... the scum of the earth

    Agreed.

    Developers have a job. Like most of us. However, their job is a bit more volatile than ours as their industry is more volatile. They are tasked with creating what is essentially entertainment, they are subject to a lot of scrutiny during the process, they have to deal with tight budgets, tight timelines and if they mess up on either side of that they can be out of a job. 

    And then there is the "monday morning quarterbacking" of players who say "the community can do better." Well, some people from the community do become developers and then they experience the truth about development. 

    It's easy to take another's work and improve in it at one's leisure. It's another thing to make something from scratch under tight deadlines, and budget without a lot of wiggle room and knowing that you might have to change jobs once it's over. Again, If you're lucky to even be able to release anything.
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  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,491
    None, at least they try. Even SOE who I feel made mistake after mistake culminating in shutting down and selling off to private investors becoming Daybreak.

    There are certain people within the gaming industry that are considered visionary, or really good, that I feel are very highly overrated and I feel the entire gaming industry would be better off if they would just go away. As far as companies, none.
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  • WarEnsembleWarEnsemble Member UncommonPosts: 252
    Call of Duty (and pretty much every other fps) isn't worth the toilet paper the code is written on in my opinion.
  • RexKushmanRexKushman Member RarePosts: 639
    Final Fantasy, though you could throw all JRPG garbage into the same dumpster and light it ablaze. 
    WarEnsembleAeander[Deleted User]

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,457
    Elsabolts said:
    FUNCOM

    I still hold Anarchy Online as a fav but the rest of the games were sheer garbage.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,313
    edited November 2019
    Final Fantasy, though you could throw all JRPG garbage into the same dumpster and light it ablaze. 
    Sorry, but JRPGs are so far above most modern western RPGs it isn't even funny.

    But not Final Fantasy. I'll give you that one. It's been floundering in identity confusion and mediocrity for a while now. Specifically, XIII and XV have been pretty contentious.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    Rats. I had Brad McQuaid on my list as love/hate. Now I feel like a dick.

    I take it back!
    Kyleran[Deleted User]Cryomatrix

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  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,313
    edited November 2019
    Amathe said:
    Rats. I had Brad McQuaid on my list as love/hate. Now I feel like a dick.

    I take it back!
    It isn't speaking ill of the dead if you do it while they're alive. So, no worries.


    Anyway, if we're singling out individuals, Peter Molyneaux is one I feel got way too much credit in his day.

    Fable was okay at best in its hayday, and its lowest point (Fable 3) wasn't even worth the 5 bucks I paid for it. Pure garbage.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,520
    Hmm, seems I have a low opinion for devs and franchises whose games I've never really played.

    What do I know?

    ;)

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  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,509
    Microprose.  What a waste of... wait... this was a hate list?  Scratch this, unless you count hating that they went away.



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  • HengistHengist Member UncommonPosts: 1,229
    edited November 2019
    WarWitch said:
    Those who killed SWG after we sent them over a million player patition and a bad change. Now they're shut down. And lost a beloved game.
    Little bit of revisionist history....

    SWG sold 720k copies of all SWG related games by 2006 in the U.S. At that time, they had only sold 1 million copies world wide. So if there was a petition that had over a million signatures, it's kind of funny, because then it was an awful lot of people who didn't play the game...or followed Cook County, IL Voting rules, but that's a whole 'nother story.

    I'd read that at the time it went down for good, there were 20-30k people total playing, 

    No argument that it was a great game. It wasn't shutting it down that killed it, it was the NGE that changed so much of the game that really was the beginning of the end. Granted subs were still going down before then, but that really was the knife in the heart.
    HatefullSlyLoK
  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 4,011
    edited November 2019
    Rockstar for me. I don’t hate them but they seem very arrogant to me. Its irrational since I dont know any of them personally, but there it is.

    I also dislike EA and Activision but that’s neither unpopular nor irrational.

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,915
    I hate them all equally except for CDPR and Brace Yourself Games where my son works :)
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  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    I only despise NCSoft. 

    Their games are made for cheaters, bots, hackers and they lie to my face that they care. Total BS. I refuse to play a game associated with them. 


    I dislike for a specific reason:
    I think Blizzard is unoriginal, doesn't take chances, and is money grubbing, but they do make kick ass games, just high quality unoriginal shit . . . kind of like Hollywood. I have no problems playing blizzard games but their lack of creativity taking chances irks the shit out of me. 

    MLB gameday series because they are PS4 exclusive, no other reason, i just wish they were on xbox. 

    Madden series because they have no competition. 

    NBA games because they waste your time with highlights in the flow of the game and blah blah. 

    Most developers based out of east Asia because their games are shallow games with shitty mechanics, schemes, and lolli graphics. 

    Destiny series because i hate it when companies make sequels as a money grab when there's no need to make a sequel. It was only a few years, no point for a sequel. Madden is kind of similar.  
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  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,313
    edited November 2019
    Nyctelios said:
    Aeander said:
    Nyctelios said:
    I don't have an unpopular dislike towards an entire series. I'm not the only one who dislikes all Fifas or NBA's for their lack of innovation and release state, also throwing rocks at EA is a very common thing to do these days.

    With one weird exception...

    The "Warriors" series. (Dinasty warriors and such).

    I don't "hate" those games. I just don't see the appeal. And I have to make effort to even talk with people who like it because to me those games are brain dead: only press 1 button and lights, flashes, things dies, brain dead AI, and the game pats on your shoulder "good boy/girl, you did good". The series is everything I don't like in games in general.

    One could argue they are meant as an entry level for certain types of players, but the issue is that's not the case: hardcore fans defend them as if they are challenging or something. So I just stay really far away from that series and their fandom.

    I have unpopular dislike for certain famously well received titles tho; For example, I don't like FF7.
    I don't like the story, I think the characters are boring and the game takes too long to go anywhere meaningful. I don't hate it, I don't think it's a bad game either... It's just... *points at FF6* it's a step back, I'm sorry.

    And despite being a Pokémon fan from long time... I agree with you now, OP. From some years already I just don't care about them anymore. I mean, Pokkén Tournament was the only fresh step moving the series forward in terms of gameplay... And now they release another turn based with bare bones animations that follows the same routine... sigh.

    But the deal is: Pokémon is not meant for us. So there is that.
    As a Dynasty Warriors fan (moreso a fan of the spinoffs), I don't defend them as "challenging." In fact, I wouldn't enjoy them if they were.

    What they are is stress killers. They make you feel empowered, and they give you hundreds of hours of content, while being one of the last remaining bastions of split screen co-op. 

    There are legitimate criticisms to be made of the series. For example, the mainline entries recycle a LOT of assets, and their tendency to make XTreme Legends editions of every game is not consumer friendly. But lack of difficulty is not one of those valid criticisms; it's not the point.
    Same could be said about pokémon :shrugs:
    Hardly. But even so, we're talking about a very niche franchise for a small but dedicated audience versus the literal biggest entertainment IP in the world. One should have higher expectations than the other.


    As for your criticism of the combat, it is factually inaccurate that the game is a one button game. I cannot stand that argument, because it's incredibly disingenuous and comes across as something one might parrot from a review they read from a particularly lazy journalist, rather than hands-on experience.

    My entry of choice, the Fire Emblem spinoff, has 6 combos for each character. Light x 6, Light ×1 and Heavy, Light x 2 and Heavy, Light x 3 and Heavy, Light x 4 and Heavy, and Light x 5 and Heavy. Each combo has different functions. Some are better for crowd clearing. Some reveal stun bars for dueling captains. Some pack a great deal of forward momentum. Some are great for stunning the foe after the stun bar has been revealed. Point is, they all have different functions. You could just spam Light x6, but you won't be dealing good damage, you won't be revealing stun gauges on neutral or disadvantaged match ups, and you won't be anywhere near efficient.

    In addition, each character has a special mechanic on their Heavy 1. This could be a duration damage buff, a grab combo, a dash, a divebomb, or other mechanic.

    Then you have the resource skills - the Musuo heavy crowd clear, the pair up Musuo (which requires both characters to have a full Musuo bar), and the Awakening duration buff (which increases all stats, grants universal weapon triangle advantage, and makes one immune to flinching/knockback for a short time).

    Then there are other mechanics to consider. Pair up lets you combine two characters to gain extra stats, a defensive cooldown, and an attack cooldown in exchange for having one less character to defend/take objectives. The weapon triangle is a rock-paper-scissors mechanic for providing advantages and disadvantages for certain opponents. Swords beat axes, which beat lances, which beat swords. There are also effective damage bonuses that allow you to equip yourself to be more effective against armored foes, flying foes, mounted foes, or dragons.

    And these effiency mechanics matter, because the purpose of these games is efficiency, not the difficulty of one on one encounters. Generally speaking, that means clearing objectives fast enough to achieve 2,000 KOs and beat the map within 15 minutes, while defending your own base and allies. The game is less about what you are doing than it is about when and where you are doing it.

    And while I'm not going to pretend that it's "literally Dark Souls" for even a second (and I would hate it if it was), it's also got enough going for it to be engaging for hours on end. It's like the 3rd person equivalent of Diablo. Easy encounters with a great deal of power fantasy and a goal of efficiency and progression. The only thing I'd say really needs major improvement is the gear system to match. Dynasty Warriors with a Diablo-esque gear system would be something great for its niche crowd indeed.
    Post edited by Aeander on
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