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End of an era, DAOC goes F2P today

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  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 953
    I liked ToA. It was one of the many ways DAoC showed how character progression can continue past capped level.
  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,149
    Portz said:
    I don't see new folks who never played jumping into this game. Game is too old for me.
    I tried and I had played it. . the control scheme was so different I couldn't even play.  I did find a setting to a more modern layout and that helped but I bet some people would last less than 5 minutes unless they changed the default.
    Kyleran

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,900
    edited November 2019
    I liked ToA. It was one of the many ways DAoC showed how character progression can continue past capped level.
    Why am I not surprised at this?  :D

    TOA was definitely a zero sum festure, some liked it, but a clear majority loathed its addition and walked away for good.

    DAOC already had a solid progession model post level cap via its realm point system.

    TOA added two features I personally won't do anymore, coordinated PVE raiding and gear leveling, meaning you first had to PVE grind to get a particular weapon to drop then do a stupid amount of PVE grinding to level the weapon up.

    Both features might have been welcomed by fans of another game but the DAOC audience in large part consisted of EQ1 refugees who walked away from its endless PVE progression model in favor of RVR which TOA basically trashed for most.
    [Deleted User]meddyckIselinultimateduckViper482

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

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  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 953
    Kyleran said:
    Why am I not surprised at this?  :D

    TOA was definitely a zero sum festure, some liked it, but a clear majority loathed its addition and walked away for good.

    DAOC already had a solid progession model post level cap via its realm point system.

    TOA added two features I personally won't do anymore, coordinated PVE raiding and gear leveling, meaning you first had to PVE grind to get a particular weapon to drop then do a stupid amount of PVE grinding to level the weapon up.

    Both features might have been welcomed by fans of another game but the DAOC audience in large part consisted of EQ1 refugees who walked away from its endless PVE progression model in favor of RVR which TOA basically trashed for most.
    I thought TOA added depth to character progression and gear templating. It was like a puzzle, needing scrolls and items to get the legendary that had to be leveled, on top of master levels. Yes, it forced PvE cooperation, but many posts have been made about the downfall of MMOs and what made them successful. Forced grouping, socialization and content was generally considered the reason. ToA added a lot of both.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,900
    edited November 2019
    Kyleran said:
    Why am I not surprised at this?  :D

    TOA was definitely a zero sum festure, some liked it, but a clear majority loathed its addition and walked away for good.

    DAOC already had a solid progession model post level cap via its realm point system.

    TOA added two features I personally won't do anymore, coordinated PVE raiding and gear leveling, meaning you first had to PVE grind to get a particular weapon to drop then do a stupid amount of PVE grinding to level the weapon up.

    Both features might have been welcomed by fans of another game but the DAOC audience in large part consisted of EQ1 refugees who walked away from its endless PVE progression model in favor of RVR which TOA basically trashed for most.
    I thought TOA added depth to character progression and gear templating. It was like a puzzle, needing scrolls and items to get the legendary that had to be leveled, on top of master levels. Yes, it forced PvE cooperation, but many posts have been made about the downfall of MMOs and what made them successful. Forced grouping, socialization and content was generally considered the reason. ToA added a lot of both.
    The "end game" of DAOC for most players was RVR. PVE was something you struggled through to get to level 50 with the premise of never having to do it again for progession purposes outside of earning enough gold to template one's character. 

    As all stats were capped, once a template was finished rare was the need to change them and if so only to flesh out the odd stat or two.

    So along comes TOA, all new PVE content which required players who were happily killing each other in RVR to return to the PVE front to acquire the necessary gear and new skills to succeed in the RVR front. 

    If they had added this content so it was entirely optional and had no impact on RVR it would have likely been much better received.

    Water under the bridge at this point but it is the reason why even Mythic released a set of new servers without TOA trying to bring players back but again failed as it still included the New Frontiers (arguably the 2nd worst expansion) and prohibited buff botting, a practice long favored by the more hardcore player base. 




    ultimateduckSlapshot1188meddyckViper482

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

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  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 953
    edited November 2019
    Kyleran said:

    The "end game" of DAOC for most players was RVR. PVE was something you struggled through to get to level 50 with the premise of never having to do it again for progession purposes outside of earning enough gold to template one's character. 

    As all stats were capped, once a template was finished rare was the need to change them and if so only to flesh out the odd stat or two.

    So along comes TOA, all new PVE content which required players who were happily killing each other in RVR to return to the PVE front to acquire the necessary gear and new skills to succeed in the RVR front. 

    If they had added this content so it was entirely optional and had no impact on RVR it would have likely been much better received.

    Water under the bridge at this point but it is the reason why even Mythic released a set of new servers without TOA trying to bring players back but again failed as it still included the New Frontiers (arguably the 2nd worst expansion) and prohibited buff botting, a practice long favored by the more hardcore player base. 




    Agreed, but the endgame would get stagnant if Mythic just left that as the only endgame. I thought their way to keep people improving on their character, while at the same time keeping PvE aspects of the game alive, was ingenious. Continued forced social interactive PvE for better PvP.

    Clearly, you do not feel the same...lol
  • WarEnsembleWarEnsemble Member UncommonPosts: 252
    I loved DAoC back in the day and I re-upped once a few years back. My main complaint these days is the controls and interface are so stiff that it makes it hard to enjoy it. The graphics are completely out of date too of course, but I can get over that part... hell I still play EQ1.
    Pink_Candy
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,425
    Kyleran said:

    The "end game" of DAOC for most players was RVR. PVE was something you struggled through to get to level 50 with the premise of never having to do it again for progession purposes outside of earning enough gold to template one's character. 

    As all stats were capped, once a template was finished rare was the need to change them and if so only to flesh out the odd stat or two.

    So along comes TOA, all new PVE content which required players who were happily killing each other in RVR to return to the PVE front to acquire the necessary gear and new skills to succeed in the RVR front. 

    If they had added this content so it was entirely optional and had no impact on RVR it would have likely been much better received.

    Water under the bridge at this point but it is the reason why even Mythic released a set of new servers without TOA trying to bring players back but again failed as it still included the New Frontiers (arguably the 2nd worst expansion) and prohibited buff botting, a practice long favored by the more hardcore player base. 




    Agreed, but the endgame would get stagnant if Mythic just left that as the only endgame. I thought their way to keep people improving on their character, while at the same time keeping PvE aspects of the game alive, was ingenious. Continued forced social interactive PvE for better PvP.

    Clearly, you do not feel the same...lol
    I agree with Kyle. The RvR in DAoC was varied, engaging and fun enough to keep me playing for years but the PvE grind, especially after level 45, was the suckiest of sucking sucks. Needing to grind more PvE post 50 just so you could PvP better totally put me off as well.
    ultimateduckMendelKyleran
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  • NeblessNebless Member RarePosts: 1,607
    Kyleran said:
    Once the servers are back up, Dark Age of Camelot will be able to be played for free (with some restrictions).  any previously subscribed account that has been inactive for 180+ days and is in good-standing is eligible to play for free 
    When they finally get down to those that did the Trial way back when, I might come back to check it out.

    Didn't seem too bad, but just wasn't willing to pay the sub cost at the time.

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWToR - Neverwinter

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,743
    I enjoyed Thidranki . What I loved about DAOC was that  if you wanted to RvR you went to a whole realm versus realm area and the other part of the game wasn't where people could come and kill you. Well some of the dungeons had some PvP but mostly you went to the specific areas. I confess I didn't play much of the game. The PvE in the game was very bland.
    Kyleran

  • PurplePepePurplePepe Member UncommonPosts: 99
    The DAOC Phoenix Freeshard was a lot of fun for a while. Unfortunately they went to New Frontiers and many of us joined to play Old Frontiers. But, hey. It was free after all. At the end of the day, DAOC is just too old of an engine and I'm too spoiled by modern graphics. It's my original love.
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,900
    Some posters replies actually make me miss @Gdemami 's LOLs.

    Stay classy

     B) 

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,900
    Ppiper said:
    I just tried it last night. Who the fuck would want to play this crap? It's old as shit, controls suck. This is fun?
    A game only a mother or previous player could love.

    Note how many here slag on the controls as I said they would earlier in the thread.
    ultimateduckTorval

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 953
    Kyleran said:
    Ppiper said:
    I just tried it last night. Who the fuck would want to play this crap? It's old as shit, controls suck. This is fun?
    A game only a mother or previous player could love.

    Note how many here slag on the controls as I said they would earlier in the thread.
    I won't be playing much if I can't get Bobs UI to work.
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141
    Kyleran said:
    Portz said:
    I don't see new folks who never played jumping into this game. Game is too old for me.
    What? You've never tried some old school MMORPG for the first time and found the game of your dreams? 

    Yeah, me neither. ;)

    I suppose they are hoping to draw back former players who might still enjoy a bit of RVR  but aren't willing to pay a monthly sub to do so.

    I would think however much of that market would already be playing one of two good free shards which have long been available such as a group of my old DAOC guildmates still do regularly.
    I dont have a problem with old games and old graphics but the controls and UI are too far off from what has become a standard for MMO's, I found the game to be too clunky to enjoy.
  • meddyckmeddyck Member UncommonPosts: 1,281
    I wouldn't even call this F2P. It's more like an unlimited free trial that is even more restrictive than SWTOR's version was when that game went F2P. I'm finding the limitations so annoying that I don't know if I'll ever get around to actually trying to RvR.

    Apparently BS has spent the 8ish years since I cancelled my sub adding more PvE gear grind to end game, so I can't even just jump on my old toons (the ones they'll even let me login as even many of my level 50 RR 3+ toons are locked due to class, race, or /played restrictions) with decent templates from before I cancelled and go do RvR. Yes I know about the King's template, but I expect that isn't something you'd really want to RvR in more than a few days other than running with the braindead zerg.

    I'm probably not going to spend much if any more time on this unless some old guildies want to try to recapture lost glory.
    JamesGoblin

    DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,123
    Here is something I have difficulty comprehending. Why only try a game when it goes F2P and then complain about the restrictions. If you like and want to play why not just pay the measly amount and play the damn game.
    Viper482Tokken
    Chamber of Chains
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited November 2019
    Hariken said:
    Don't even bother with this. EA has put its foot all over this with all the restrictions. It's swtor all over again.
    Are you "complaining" about the game because you consider the changes to be "bad"? Or simply because you believe they have been made by EA? 


    EA do not own, operate or have anything to do with DAoC.

    EA did run DAoC after they bought Mythic but, as per a post Mark Jacobs several years back, agreed to continue supporting the - loss making - game rather than close it.

    More recently EA worked with Rob Denton - one of the other Mythic founders - to pass control and full ownership of DAoC (and UO) to the newly minted Broadsword Games - totally independent of EA - rather than close it.

    It is Broadsword that have been operating DAoC for some years now. And it is Broadsword - freed from the shackles of "big bad corporate EA" - that have made the changes.

    Of course being free of those shackles also removed the EA financial safety net. Which is probably why there are so many restrictions.

    Hence: were you "complaining" because you consider the changes made by Broadsword to be "bad"? Or simply because you thought this was done by EA?

    ultimateduckJamesGoblinTorvalcheeba
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Took me all of one day to realize this game was just bad.Back then there wasn't much competition in the gaming market,sure lot's of console games but even with a smallish PC market DAOC would be far far down my list,Geesh AnarchyOnline was better and there was a game i forget the name of that recently went under that was even better.

    I would play that MO run by a kid game over DAOC,That game run by a Greek was also a better choice,yeah i am saying DAOC was just a really bad game.What did people even find interesting about the game...pvp?

    PVP in a rpg carries zero value for me.
    Viper482RemyVorender

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Iselin said:
    HAHA, I remember Stungard, or Thane laghammers and LA shadowblades. Midgard had some funky things in their favor back then. Suddenly it was Hibs and their heat debuffs, Champs debuffing you so bad you couldn't walk, unstoppable Wardens with bubble and buff stripping.

    The classes and realms were always getting adjusted. Some cried and left, others made due with whatever nerf they were hit with and others would just reroll.

    I loved it.

    Yeah. I rather have the differences too.
    The differences were great - or not; sort of, maybe, potentially. 

    The classes were never fully tested pre-launch - DAoC was pushed out unfinished. Then there was the new character class added with the "annual expansion". Which had to be "the best" to drive sales. 

    So it was balance patch after balance patch from day 1. Usually monthly - hence fotm. And this was not at all wonderful.
    JamesGoblinTorval
  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 953
    gervaise1 said:

    The differences were great - or not; sort of, maybe, potentially. 

    The classes were never fully tested pre-launch - DAoC was pushed out unfinished. Then there was the new character class added with the "annual expansion". Which had to be "the best" to drive sales. 

    So it was balance patch after balance patch from day 1. Usually monthly - hence fotm. And this was not at all wonderful.
    DAoC didn't launch unfinished...lol. It did launch with bugs, as do all MMOs. It's just a very old MMO.

    They definitely didn't drop an "annual expansion" for sales. SI with 6 new classes was free. Foundations had no new classes and was free. ToA added new races and was the first payed expansion 2 years after release. New Frontiers was free and no new classes. Catacombs was paid and added new classes, which is the first paid expansion to add classes three years after release. DR was paid and had no new classes, Lab was free and included one race and class I believe. Most people didn't play FotM build, they played the builds they liked.

    You sure you're talking about DAoC?
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,425
    gervaise1 said:
    Iselin said:
    HAHA, I remember Stungard, or Thane laghammers and LA shadowblades. Midgard had some funky things in their favor back then. Suddenly it was Hibs and their heat debuffs, Champs debuffing you so bad you couldn't walk, unstoppable Wardens with bubble and buff stripping.

    The classes and realms were always getting adjusted. Some cried and left, others made due with whatever nerf they were hit with and others would just reroll.

    I loved it.

    Yeah. I rather have the differences too.
    The differences were great - or not; sort of, maybe, potentially. 

    The classes were never fully tested pre-launch - DAoC was pushed out unfinished. Then there was the new character class added with the "annual expansion". Which had to be "the best" to drive sales. 

    So it was balance patch after balance patch from day 1. Usually monthly - hence fotm. And this was not at all wonderful.
    Have you ever played an MMO that launched with finished classes? Lol.

    Every one of them I have ever played, especially the PvP ones, have constant buffs and nerfs from the time they launch and forever thereafter.
    JamesGoblin
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

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    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    gervaise1 said:

    The differences were great - or not; sort of, maybe, potentially. 

    The classes were never fully tested pre-launch - DAoC was pushed out unfinished. Then there was the new character class added with the "annual expansion". Which had to be "the best" to drive sales. 

    So it was balance patch after balance patch from day 1. Usually monthly - hence fotm. And this was not at all wonderful.
    DAoC didn't launch unfinished...lol. It did launch with bugs, as do all MMOs. It's just a very old MMO.

    They definitely didn't drop an "annual expansion" for sales. SI with 6 new classes was free. Foundations had no new classes and was free. ToA added new races and was the first payed expansion 2 years after release. New Frontiers was free and no new classes. Catacombs was paid and added new classes, which is the first paid expansion to add classes three years after release. DR was paid and had no new classes, Lab was free and included one race and class I believe. Most people didn't play FotM build, they played the builds they liked.

    You sure you're talking about DAoC?
    It was unfinished. Hibernia for example didn't have all of its content.
    JamesGoblingervaise1
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,900
    Wizardry said:
    Took me all of one day to realize this game was just bad.Back then there wasn't much competition in the gaming market,sure lot's of console games but even with a smallish PC market DAOC would be far far down my list,Geesh AnarchyOnline was better and there was a game i forget the name of that recently went under that was even better.

    I would play that MO run by a kid game over DAOC,That game run by a Greek was also a better choice,yeah i am saying DAOC was just a really bad game.What did people even find interesting about the game...pvp?

    PVP in a rpg carries zero value for me.
    You always fail to understand just because you don't like something, say PVP in a MMORPG it doesn't make the game "bad".

    I mean heck, I could slag on FFXI as a "bad" game based on a stupid Japanese children's anime cartoon with way too much grouping but I'm thinking some here would disagree.

    I mean sure, they would be wrong of course, but I was just using it as an example.

    ;)
    JamesGoblinelocke

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 3,601
    edited November 2019
    Kyleran said:
    Why am I not surprised at this?  :D

    TOA was definitely a zero sum festure, some liked it, but a clear majority loathed its addition and walked away for good.

    DAOC already had a solid progession model post level cap via its realm point system.

    TOA added two features I personally won't do anymore, coordinated PVE raiding and gear leveling, meaning you first had to PVE grind to get a particular weapon to drop then do a stupid amount of PVE grinding to level the weapon up.

    Both features might have been welcomed by fans of another game but the DAOC audience in large part consisted of EQ1 refugees who walked away from its endless PVE progression model in favor of RVR which TOA basically trashed for most.
    Forced grouping, socialization and content was generally considered the reason. ToA added a lot of both.

    No no no. Have to 100% disagree here because none of those were even close to the reason people loathed ToA. Old school DAoC was always more of a social and group game, no different than every other MMORPG at the time. From level one the best way to level was to group grind, as the game actually gave you bonus experience for grouping and the open world content was difficult to solo. Socialization was a huge part of DAoC, ToA did nothing to change that. 

    The main reason ToA sucked was the endgame here was 100% PvP, and ToA introduced PvE grind to win and level overpowered items that would trump any and all skill. It made the game gear based rather than skill based and forced PvE in what was otherwise a PvP game.
    JamesGoblinKyleranmeddyckIselinRaidonn
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