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Making a list for upgrade potentials

BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
edited November 12 in Hardware
It's time again to see potential upgrades to what's left of my system that needs to be upgraded. Not that I can't run games, but I'm sure my cpu is bottlenecking my gpu atm. That however means, also a new motherboard and ram as well (still have ddr3) will be needed.

My current spec list is as follows:

MSI Gtx 1080
i5 4670k
16 GB DDR 3
256 GB SSD and 2 1TB HDs
EVGA 750 GQ  

That should be it.

The GPU, PSU and Storage are fairly "recent" (1-2 years old), the rest is 5+. I was thinking to up the ram to 32 GB if the cost is in line with my budget. Motherboards I'm always unsure on what to pick, and cpu it's mainly for gaming.

What would you recommend? Wouldn't want to spend an absurd amount so staying around 500 or less would be ideal. I'm from europe. 

Thanks

«1

Comments

  • bentrimbentrim Member UncommonPosts: 254
    Your cpu is not bottlenecking your gpu...your ram is the culprit. You need AT LEAST 32GB...you can get by with new MB and 16GB of DDR4...still 32GB would be better.
    GdemamiRidelynnOzmodanalkarionlog
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
    edited November 12
    bentrim said:
    Your cpu is not bottlenecking your gpu...your ram is the culprit. You need AT LEAST 32GB...you can get by with new MB and 16GB of DDR4...still 32GB would be better.
    If I change my motherboard it would make more sense to go for one that supports the newer generation of sockets than sticking to the older generations. I checked what my current motherboard could support cpu wise without switching everything, and the upgrade I found was an i7 which frankly doesn't boost much higher clock speeds just has more cores.

    I highly doubt my 16gb of ram is the culprit. When looking at required specs for games the only one barely reaching recommended is the cpu. It's 3.4 GHz after all. Also, I understand a GTX 1080 isn't top of the line, but it can handle everything on high so far that I've played and I don't have complaints on it.

  • Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member RarePosts: 1,736
    edited November 12
    As far as computer spec, it is just old. The one thing I was able to do with AMD products was buy a current gen 5 years ago 8core /16thread cpu, and just wait on gfx card prices ot drop. Now with my Sapphire rx580, I can pretty much play all current titles. 

    One of the biggest problem I been seeing ppeople bought short term products from intel and nv/da who main source of revenue is always short term product lines bankiong on people upgrading every generation. 
    AMD isn't like that. As I said my cpu is old, but it crushes multithread performance of intel i9's . Take the time and think is your current pc going to be able to crutch along ort is it time for a new pc.


    the GTX 1080  is a waste of money.
    You can get a AMD RX5700XT for half the price and 200% more performance. 
    you can see the AMD RX5700XT beats out the GTX 2070 
    https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/galax_geforce_rtx_2070_super_wtf_review,22.html

    Anything with an i5 , is just wasting money.
    For the same price you can get current Gen AMD Ryzen 7 for the same amount with over 150% performance gain.

    https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_ryzen_7_3800x_review,20.html

    I would very much recommend doing deeper reseach since generation of products have changed as well as the leaders in components in this era. Basically AMD is unstoppable in 2020. 

    Anew mobo shouldn't run more the $250. Newegg as Asrock and Ryzen 7 combo for under $250 ( I personally neve rhad luck with asrock, but I know others have)

    Since the socket is AM4 you are future proofed for the next gen.
    Gdemami
    There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
    edited November 12
    Seems you missed an important factor... I bought my gpu 1-2 years ago. This RX5700XT apparently released this year. Also, I bought my 1080 for less than the price of this card you're mentioning (400 euro).

    I had amd gpu cards before so I'm not taking sides, but calling the other products a waste of money seems far fetched. I read about the newer amd cpus being quite good, so I'm looking for suggestions atm.

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,928
    Your GTX 1080 is still really good GPU, but your processor is getting old. When you replace processor, you'll also need to buy new motherboard and RAM. 

    When you're buying a new motherboard, you need to make sure that your case is big enough to fit it. Most likely you've got ATX case wich can fit the most common ATX and micro ATX motherboards, but it's something you need to check.

    Your PSU looks like it's still ok, and there's no need to replace it.

    For storage it looks like you've only got 250 GB of SSD space. Nowadays you could buy 1 TB SSD at $100 so that you can run your games from fast SSD instead of old HDD.

    If your computer is still running on Windows 7 (or any Windows older than 10), you should upgrade to Windows 10 while you're upgrading the hardware.


    I'd recommend something like this:
      https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zxrv8Y


    BloodaxesTorvalalkarionlog
     
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
    Vrika said:
    Your GTX 1080 is still really good GPU, but your processor is getting old. When you replace processor, you'll also need to buy new motherboard and RAM. 

    When you're buying a new motherboard, you need to make sure that your case is big enough to fit it. Most likely you've got ATX case wich can fit the most common ATX and micro ATX motherboards, but it's something you need to check.

    Your PSU looks like it's still ok, and there's no need to replace it.

    For storage it looks like you've only got 250 GB of SSD space. Nowadays you could buy 1 TB SSD at $100 so that you can run your games from fast SSD instead of old HDD.

    If your computer is still running on Windows 7 (or any Windows older than 10), you should upgrade to Windows 10 while you're upgrading the hardware.


    I'd recommend something like this:
      https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zxrv8Y
    My case is this one: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/thermaltake-versa-n23-mid-tower-computer-chassis-with-window-mini-itx-matx-atx-usb-30-120mm-fan-blac

    So yea an ATX case. To be honest I was considering additional storage. The prices have gone done quite a bit since last time I bought mine. I'll see depending on the overall cost.

    This might be a stupid question, but would I need to format when switching to a new motherboard or not? I'm on windows 10. 

    Thanks for the suggestions!

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    edited November 12
    Vrika's list is fairly good except for the ram...get something faster with a lower cl.  Black friday is coming up so I will be building a ryzen 3600/x system and  wont go lower than 3200c14 for ram.

    See here:

    If you are going to invest it's probably a good time to upgrade to a nice 6 core 12 thread cpu.


    Frankly I would go something like this instead, cpu, mobo and ram:


    You could even save some money on the mobo, if you are not doing multi gpu and don't really need PCIE 4.0, and just get a b450 one.  I just used Vrika part list and changed out a couple things to something better IMO, btw the x570 mobo  doesn't even have a pciex8 slot but rather 2 pcie x16 slots instead.

    For myself I will be getting a b450 board mostly because I don't need PCIe 4.0 and because I want w7 running on that machine, for specific work related reasons, and the drivers for w7 are available from MSI.  Someone like you that's already running windows 10 you would probably be better off with a x570.

    If you need the extra lanes PCIe 4.0 then go x570 mobo

    If not then then a b450 will be just fine unless you want to run more than one gpu then you need to go x470 or even x570

    Even now a top of the line gpu is not maxing out you PCIe 3.0 so I would only go x570 if you want to future proof some more or if you want to run your gpu in a  PCIe 4.0 x8 slot and have lanes left over whereas in a b450 you would want to run the gpu in the PCIe 3.0 x16 slot

    As for ram 16gb is just fine, you don't need 32gb so I dunno what that other person in this thread is going on about...while nice you can always add more later on if needed for some odd reason...


    When changing mobo, cpu etc you are always best off to reformat from scratch.  I mean it not that long and you don't lose that much if  you don't have everything installed on your OS drive which I assume is the SSD you have.

    Any big files etc that you don't want to lose just put on your HDD as those wont be touched by a reformat or reinstall of the OS on the SSD.  Just keep  your two HDD unplugged when reinstalling the OS on the ssd and once the OS is up and running/updated anti virus put back on etc then plug the two HDD back in.

    Clean install would be best as otherwise you are just asking for problems.

    Post edited by Asm0deus on
    BloodaxesTorvalGdemami

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
    edited November 12
    Asm0deus said:
    Vrika's list is fairly good except for the ram...get something faster with a lower cl.  Black friday is coming up so I will be building a ryzen 3600/x system and  wont go lower than 3200c14 for ram.

    See here:

    If you are going to invest it's probably a good time to upgrade to a nice 6 core 12 thread cpu.
    I was leaning on ryzen but wanted to be sure beforehand by seeing what others suggested. I like vrika's list but if I removed the ssd would that extra 100 be better in an additional 2x 8gb sticks for 32 gb or a better processor?

    I honestly am fine with having only the operating system and some programs I use frequently on my ssd while having my games on a regular HDs for the time being.

  • Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member RarePosts: 1,736
    edited November 12
    Bloodaxes said:
    Seems you missed an important factor... I bought my gpu 1-2 years ago. This RX5700XT apparently released this year. Also, I bought my 1080 for less than the price of this card you're mentioning (400 euro).

    I had amd gpu cards before so I'm not taking sides, but calling the other products a waste of money seems far fetched. I read about the newer amd cpus being quite good, so I'm looking for suggestions atm.
    I can agree with that. I miss read your op and thought you where building the machine. I stand by my analysis of components in this era.

    for your current build, if you can upgrade to i7 - i9 with the mobo you have, that would be your best upgrade choice imho. Guru3d.com has plenty of CPU hardware reviews to check performance and price works for you.

    imho 16gig of ram is plenty if the it over ddr 3 1066 download cpu-z to see your ram frequency.

    would strtill recommend a new ryzen 7 or 9 though ;)
    Post edited by Prime_Directive on
    There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    Bloodaxes said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Vrika's list is fairly good except for the ram...get something faster with a lower cl.  Black friday is coming up so I will be building a ryzen 3600/x system and  wont go lower than 3200c14 for ram.

    See here:

    If you are going to invest it's probably a good time to upgrade to a nice 6 core 12 thread cpu.
    I was leaning on ryzen but wanted to be sure beforehand by seeing what others suggested. I like vrika's list but if I removed the ssd would that extra 100 be better in an additional 2x 8gb sticks for 32 gb or a better processor?

    I honestly am fine with having only the operating system and some programs I use frequently on my ssd while having my games on a regular HDs for the time being.
    I though about it for myself and ryzen infinity fabric works better with faster ram so IMO it's btter off to go a little less ram but faster instead of getting 32gb.

    The sweet spot for ram for ryzen 3k cpu is 3200/3600 or so, if you look at the reddit thread I linked in my previous post 32000c14 ram is in the sweet spot so it not worth paying much more but if you go down to 3000 you are dipping below the sweet spot.

    Way I see it in the 4 core era of i5/i7 the sweet spot for ram was 1600c9 but now the new sweet spot is 3200c14 with some arguments being for 3600 but then between those two you are not likely to see any real world differences and will only see some in benchmarks.  Dipping below 3200 though I daresay you are likely to see some effects.
    TorvalPrime_DirectiveBloodaxesGdemami

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
    Very well, then that settles it. Then a Ryzen 5 3600 or 3600x depending on price difference with 3200/3600 ram sticks.

    I won't use multiple gpus for sure (imo it's a gimmick). I'll see about motherboard choices that work with that processor and move from there. 

    Thanks for the detailed explanations :)

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,928
    Asm0deus said:
    Vrika's list is fairly good except for the ram...get something faster with a lower cl.  Black friday is coming up so I will be building a ryzen 3600/x system and  wont go lower than 3200c14 for ram.

    See here:

    If you are going to invest it's probably a good time to upgrade to a nice 6 core 12 thread cpu.


    Frankly I would go something like this instead, cpu, mobo and ram:


    You could even save some money on the mobo, if you are not doing multi gpu and don't really need PCIE 4.0, and just get a b450 one.  I just used Vrika part list and changed out a couple things to something better IMO, btw the x570 mobo  doesn't even have a pciex8 slot but rather 2 pcie x16 slots instead.

    For myself I will be getting a b450 board mostly because I don't need PCIe 4.0 and because I want w7 running on that machine, for specific work related reasons, and the drivers for w7 are available from MSI.  Someone like you that's already running windows 10 you would probably be better off with a x570.

    If you need the extra lanes PCIe 4.0 then go x570 mobo

    If not then then a b450 will be just fine unless you want to run more than one gpu then you need to go x470 or even x570

    Even now a top of the line gpu is not maxing out you PCIe 3.0 so I would only go x570 if you want to future proof some more or if you want to run your gpu in a  PCIe 4.0 x8 slot and have lanes left over whereas in a b450 you would want to run the gpu in the PCIe 3.0 x16 slot

    As for ram 16gb is just fine, you don't need 32gb so I dunno what that other person in this thread is going on about...while nice you can always add more later on if needed for some odd reason...


    When changing mobo, cpu etc you are always best off to reformat from scratch.  I mean it not that long and you don't lose that much if  you don't have everything installed on your OS drive which I assume is the SSD you have.

    Any big files etc that you don't want to lose just put on your HDD as those wont be touched by a reformat or reinstall of the OS on the SSD.  Just keep  your two HDD unplugged when reinstalling the OS on the ssd and once the OS is up and running/updated anti virus put back on etc then plug the two HDD back in.

    Clean install would be best as otherwise you are just asking for problems.

    About mobo:

    My logic was that OP could pick the cheapest X570 motherboard available in his country and still end up with a good motherboard. As long as it's ATX or mATX form factor, I think all of those are good. A B450 motherboard would be even more cost-effective option, but then you'd have to be more careful on which one you choose.

    About RAM:

    You're right that faster RAM is better, but I disagree about your choice because that would be $70 more just for faster RAM than my choice. I think it's better to just pick something cheap around the 3 000 - 3 200 Mhz range, depending on what the OP can find cheap from his country.
    Torval
     
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,264
    bentrim said:
    Your cpu is not bottlenecking your gpu...your ram is the culprit. You need AT LEAST 32GB...you can get by with new MB and 16GB of DDR4...still 32GB would be better.
    It would be relatively unusual for 16 GB to not be enough memory, though you can easily run out of 16 GB if you like to have a lot of things running at once, such as multi-boxing or 50 browser tabs.

    That said, to upgrade the CPU, anything modern is going to require DDR4 and not DDR3.  If you're buying new memory anyway, you might as well get 32 GB, as it only costs about $100.  The ridiculous memory prices caused by the Ethereum mining craze have thankfully abated.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,264
    Bloodaxes said:
    Seems you missed an important factor... I bought my gpu 1-2 years ago. This RX5700XT apparently released this year. Also, I bought my 1080 for less than the price of this card you're mentioning (400 euro).

    I had amd gpu cards before so I'm not taking sides, but calling the other products a waste of money seems far fetched. I read about the newer amd cpus being quite good, so I'm looking for suggestions atm.
    A Radeon RX 5700 XT is a little better than a GeForce GTX 1080, but not a lot better.  If you're happy with the performance you get from the GTX 1080, then I don't see any reason to replace it.  If you want more performance, I'd be skeptical of upgrading to anything less than a GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, which is likely out of your budget, anyway.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,264
    Bloodaxes said:
    Vrika said:
    Your GTX 1080 is still really good GPU, but your processor is getting old. When you replace processor, you'll also need to buy new motherboard and RAM. 

    When you're buying a new motherboard, you need to make sure that your case is big enough to fit it. Most likely you've got ATX case wich can fit the most common ATX and micro ATX motherboards, but it's something you need to check.

    Your PSU looks like it's still ok, and there's no need to replace it.

    For storage it looks like you've only got 250 GB of SSD space. Nowadays you could buy 1 TB SSD at $100 so that you can run your games from fast SSD instead of old HDD.

    If your computer is still running on Windows 7 (or any Windows older than 10), you should upgrade to Windows 10 while you're upgrading the hardware.


    I'd recommend something like this:
      https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zxrv8Y
    My case is this one: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/thermaltake-versa-n23-mid-tower-computer-chassis-with-window-mini-itx-matx-atx-usb-30-120mm-fan-blac

    So yea an ATX case. To be honest I was considering additional storage. The prices have gone done quite a bit since last time I bought mine. I'll see depending on the overall cost.

    This might be a stupid question, but would I need to format when switching to a new motherboard or not? I'm on windows 10. 

    Thanks for the suggestions!
    My personal recommendation when switching motherboards is to do a clean install of Windows on a new SSD (or possibly an old SSD that you've copied any needed data off of), then put the old drive into the new computer and copy over whatever files you want.  As Vrika said, you can get a 1 TB SSD now for around $100, so I don't see any reason not to get at least that if you're upgrading.  You don't seem like the sort who is so tight on money as to be trying to get a marginally functional gaming computer on a $500 budget.
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
    Quizzical said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    Vrika said:
    Your GTX 1080 is still really good GPU, but your processor is getting old. When you replace processor, you'll also need to buy new motherboard and RAM. 

    When you're buying a new motherboard, you need to make sure that your case is big enough to fit it. Most likely you've got ATX case wich can fit the most common ATX and micro ATX motherboards, but it's something you need to check.

    Your PSU looks like it's still ok, and there's no need to replace it.

    For storage it looks like you've only got 250 GB of SSD space. Nowadays you could buy 1 TB SSD at $100 so that you can run your games from fast SSD instead of old HDD.

    If your computer is still running on Windows 7 (or any Windows older than 10), you should upgrade to Windows 10 while you're upgrading the hardware.


    I'd recommend something like this:
      https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zxrv8Y
    My case is this one: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/thermaltake-versa-n23-mid-tower-computer-chassis-with-window-mini-itx-matx-atx-usb-30-120mm-fan-blac

    So yea an ATX case. To be honest I was considering additional storage. The prices have gone done quite a bit since last time I bought mine. I'll see depending on the overall cost.

    This might be a stupid question, but would I need to format when switching to a new motherboard or not? I'm on windows 10. 

    Thanks for the suggestions!
    My personal recommendation when switching motherboards is to do a clean install of Windows on a new SSD (or possibly an old SSD that you've copied any needed data off of), then put the old drive into the new computer and copy over whatever files you want.  As Vrika said, you can get a 1 TB SSD now for around $100, so I don't see any reason not to get at least that if you're upgrading.  You don't seem like the sort who is so tight on money as to be trying to get a marginally functional gaming computer on a $500 budget.
    This was my reasoning as to not needing another ssd right away. Might be silly or not, but I'm trying not to blow all my savings while still studying haha.

    At the moment, I have a bunch of software that I exclusively use for academic purposes. Some of these applications run even when not used which is a bit annoying. I was thinking for the future to perhaps buy a laptop and format my desktop so that all academic software would be shifted on it while keeping this system exclusively for gaming and other related activities.

    I'm still unsure about this as I know myself. I had a laptop long ago, and whenever I came back home I would leave it off and used the desktop instead. I mainly made the thread to see what I should be looking for considering black friday is near and see from there.  

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,264
    Asm0deus said:
    Vrika's list is fairly good except for the ram...get something faster with a lower cl.  Black friday is coming up so I will be building a ryzen 3600/x system and  wont go lower than 3200c14 for ram.

    See here:

    If you are going to invest it's probably a good time to upgrade to a nice 6 core 12 thread cpu.


    Frankly I would go something like this instead, cpu, mobo and ram:


    You could even save some money on the mobo, if you are not doing multi gpu and don't really need PCIE 4.0, and just get a b450 one.  I just used Vrika part list and changed out a couple things to something better IMO, btw the x570 mobo  doesn't even have a pciex8 slot but rather 2 pcie x16 slots instead.

    For myself I will be getting a b450 board mostly because I don't need PCIe 4.0 and because I want w7 running on that machine, for specific work related reasons, and the drivers for w7 are available from MSI.  Someone like you that's already running windows 10 you would probably be better off with a x570.

    If you need the extra lanes PCIe 4.0 then go x570 mobo

    If not then then a b450 will be just fine unless you want to run more than one gpu then you need to go x470 or even x570

    Even now a top of the line gpu is not maxing out you PCIe 3.0 so I would only go x570 if you want to future proof some more or if you want to run your gpu in a  PCIe 4.0 x8 slot and have lanes left over whereas in a b450 you would want to run the gpu in the PCIe 3.0 x16 slot

    As for ram 16gb is just fine, you don't need 32gb so I dunno what that other person in this thread is going on about...while nice you can always add more later on if needed for some odd reason...


    When changing mobo, cpu etc you are always best off to reformat from scratch.  I mean it not that long and you don't lose that much if  you don't have everything installed on your OS drive which I assume is the SSD you have.

    Any big files etc that you don't want to lose just put on your HDD as those wont be touched by a reformat or reinstall of the OS on the SSD.  Just keep  your two HDD unplugged when reinstalling the OS on the ssd and once the OS is up and running/updated anti virus put back on etc then plug the two HDD back in.

    Clean install would be best as otherwise you are just asking for problems.

    Be warned that if you go over 3733 MHz memory, AMD will cut the clock speed of the infinity fabric in half.  That can still get you increased throughput, but it will come at the expense of higher latency, and likely give you worse performance overall.

    https://images.anandtech.com/doci/14525/TravisK_DonW-Next_Horizon_Gaming-Ryzen_Deep_Dive_06092019-page-017.jpg

    Remember that memory timings are in numbers of clock cycles, so your latency is your memory timings divided by the clock speed, then multiplied by some constant to get the units right.

    You should also be aware that there are no DDR4 memory chips rated at higher than 3200 MHz.  The stock voltage of DDR4 is 1.2 V, and that's the case for literally all DDR4 chips, whether from Samsung, Hynix, or Micron.

    Nearly all of the modules that you can buy that are rated at over 2666 MHz are overclocked and overvolted to get that clock speed.  You can tell if memory is overvolted if it requires more than 1.2 V (commonly 1.35 V) to get its rated clock speed.  If you want high clocked memory, that's nearly what you have to do to get it.

    I'm generally skeptical of very high clocked memory, as it adds a large price premium for not much benefit.  For example, if you restrict to 1.2 V memory, 3200 MHz costs 50% more than 2666 MHz, and 3466 MHz costs more than three times as much as 2666 MHz.

    If you're willing to get factory overclocked and overvolted memory, then the price premium is much smaller.  But that also comes at the expense of reliability.  That is what a lot of people would do.  It's not what I would do.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,264
    Bloodaxes said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Vrika's list is fairly good except for the ram...get something faster with a lower cl.  Black friday is coming up so I will be building a ryzen 3600/x system and  wont go lower than 3200c14 for ram.

    See here:

    If you are going to invest it's probably a good time to upgrade to a nice 6 core 12 thread cpu.
    I was leaning on ryzen but wanted to be sure beforehand by seeing what others suggested. I like vrika's list but if I removed the ssd would that extra 100 be better in an additional 2x 8gb sticks for 32 gb or a better processor?

    I honestly am fine with having only the operating system and some programs I use frequently on my ssd while having my games on a regular HDs for the time being.
    The big question is, why are you looking to upgrade?  Have you run into some particular purpose where the old computer isn't good enough?  Has it become unreliable as time passed?  Or is it just old enough that you'd like something new on general principle?

    For comparison, a third generation Ryzen or recent Intel CPU might be 15% faster than what you have on a per core basis at the same clock speed.  Newer CPUs also tend to have more cores and be clocked higher, in addition to that.  So you could get quite a CPU speed improvement.

    But depending on what you're doing, it might not matter.  I was still using a Core i7-860 until last year, and it worked fine.

    Also, I'd highly recommend running games off of an SSD.  If you had to $100 to upgrade the old computer, adding more SSD capacity is the easy call.  Replacing the CPU, motherboard, and memory (to get a recent CPU, you'll also need a new motherboard and memory) only makes sense on a considerably larger budget.
    Gdemami
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,264
    Vrika said:
    About mobo:

    My logic was that OP could pick the cheapest X570 motherboard available in his country and still end up with a good motherboard. As long as it's ATX or mATX form factor, I think all of those are good. A B450 motherboard would be even more cost-effective option, but then you'd have to be more careful on which one you choose.
    I agree, but I'd like to explain the problem with a B450 motherboard.  In a sense, a B450 motherboard with a third generation Ryzen CPU will work fine.  The problem is that in most cases, it will need a BIOS update, as the original BIOS will be too old to support the CPU.  The B450 chipset was originally designed for second generation Ryzen CPUs.  In order to make that BIOS update, you'll need a CPU that works with the old BIOS.  That's not a problem if you're upgrading the CPU, but it is a problem if you don't have an older CPU that fits the same socket.

    It's probably possible to get around this and get a motherboard that you know comes with a new enough BIOS to support third generation Ryzen CPUs.  But I haven't looked into it.
    Gdemami
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
    Quizzical said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Vrika's list is fairly good except for the ram...get something faster with a lower cl.  Black friday is coming up so I will be building a ryzen 3600/x system and  wont go lower than 3200c14 for ram.

    See here:

    If you are going to invest it's probably a good time to upgrade to a nice 6 core 12 thread cpu.
    I was leaning on ryzen but wanted to be sure beforehand by seeing what others suggested. I like vrika's list but if I removed the ssd would that extra 100 be better in an additional 2x 8gb sticks for 32 gb or a better processor?

    I honestly am fine with having only the operating system and some programs I use frequently on my ssd while having my games on a regular HDs for the time being.
    The big question is, why are you looking to upgrade?  Have you run into some particular purpose where the old computer isn't good enough?  Has it become unreliable as time passed?  Or is it just old enough that you'd like something new on general principle?

    For comparison, a third generation Ryzen or recent Intel CPU might be 15% faster than what you have on a per core basis at the same clock speed.  Newer CPUs also tend to have more cores and be clocked higher, in addition to that.  So you could get quite a CPU speed improvement.

    But depending on what you're doing, it might not matter.  I was still using a Core i7-860 until last year, and it worked fine.

    Also, I'd highly recommend running games off of an SSD.  If you had to $100 to upgrade the old computer, adding more SSD capacity is the easy call.  Replacing the CPU, motherboard, and memory (to get a recent CPU, you'll also need a new motherboard and memory) only makes sense on a considerably larger budget.
    I started slowly upgrading my system to be more future proof pretty much every year, and the next part can't be a one part thing but altogether.

    When looking a newer games recommended specifications I'm fine in all areas but the processor. Even tough I'm not someone who cares if I can put everything on ultra, I'd like to at least be around high and not going to lower settings. That's my reasoning I guess?

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,264
    Bloodaxes said:
    Quizzical said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Vrika's list is fairly good except for the ram...get something faster with a lower cl.  Black friday is coming up so I will be building a ryzen 3600/x system and  wont go lower than 3200c14 for ram.

    See here:

    If you are going to invest it's probably a good time to upgrade to a nice 6 core 12 thread cpu.
    I was leaning on ryzen but wanted to be sure beforehand by seeing what others suggested. I like vrika's list but if I removed the ssd would that extra 100 be better in an additional 2x 8gb sticks for 32 gb or a better processor?

    I honestly am fine with having only the operating system and some programs I use frequently on my ssd while having my games on a regular HDs for the time being.
    The big question is, why are you looking to upgrade?  Have you run into some particular purpose where the old computer isn't good enough?  Has it become unreliable as time passed?  Or is it just old enough that you'd like something new on general principle?

    For comparison, a third generation Ryzen or recent Intel CPU might be 15% faster than what you have on a per core basis at the same clock speed.  Newer CPUs also tend to have more cores and be clocked higher, in addition to that.  So you could get quite a CPU speed improvement.

    But depending on what you're doing, it might not matter.  I was still using a Core i7-860 until last year, and it worked fine.

    Also, I'd highly recommend running games off of an SSD.  If you had to $100 to upgrade the old computer, adding more SSD capacity is the easy call.  Replacing the CPU, motherboard, and memory (to get a recent CPU, you'll also need a new motherboard and memory) only makes sense on a considerably larger budget.
    I started slowly upgrading my system to be more future proof pretty much every year, and the next part can't be a one part thing but altogether.

    When looking a newer games recommended specifications I'm fine in all areas but the processor. Even tough I'm not someone who cares if I can put everything on ultra, I'd like to at least be around high and not going to lower settings. That's my reasoning I guess?
    If you're upgrading to get better gaming performance, then I'd wait until you run into a particular game where your current hardware is a problem.  For example, if you pick up a complex simulation that would really like at least eight fast cores, then you'd know that the CPU is a problem.

    If your current CPU is plenty fast enough for everything you want to play, just keep using it.  It could easily be several years before you run into a game where your CPU is a problem, by which time it will probably be possible to get much faster CPUs than you could now.

    I think you'll notice a considerable difference if you get a 1 TB SSD and move all the software that you're currently running from hard drives to it.  (Even for people who say they have 2 TB of games installed, I'm extremely skeptical that they've played all those games in the past few months and will play them all again in the future.)  You could do that for $100, which is a lot cheaper than getting a new CPU, motherboard, and memory.  I don't think you'll notice much difference from the CPU/motherboard/memory upgrade if your current hardware is plenty fast enough for everything you do now.

    Last year, I upgraded from a Core i7-860 to a Ryzen 7 2700X.  That's a much larger upgrade than what you're considering, and coming from a much slower CPU.  The new computer is plenty fast, but it wasn't a dramatic difference from the old one.  The most noticeable difference is that the three monitors now work reliably, while I'd sometimes have to reboot a few times to get everything to work properly on the old one.  And that's not due to the CPU difference.
    Gdemamicheeba
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    edited November 12
    Vrika said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Vrika's list is fairly good except for the ram...get something faster with a lower cl.  Black friday is coming up so I will be building a ryzen 3600/x system and  wont go lower than 3200c14 for ram.

    See here:

    If you are going to invest it's probably a good time to upgrade to a nice 6 core 12 thread cpu.


    Frankly I would go something like this instead, cpu, mobo and ram:


    You could even save some money on the mobo, if you are not doing multi gpu and don't really need PCIE 4.0, and just get a b450 one.  I just used Vrika part list and changed out a couple things to something better IMO, btw the x570 mobo  doesn't even have a pciex8 slot but rather 2 pcie x16 slots instead.

    For myself I will be getting a b450 board mostly because I don't need PCIe 4.0 and because I want w7 running on that machine, for specific work related reasons, and the drivers for w7 are available from MSI.  Someone like you that's already running windows 10 you would probably be better off with a x570.

    If you need the extra lanes PCIe 4.0 then go x570 mobo

    If not then then a b450 will be just fine unless you want to run more than one gpu then you need to go x470 or even x570

    Even now a top of the line gpu is not maxing out you PCIe 3.0 so I would only go x570 if you want to future proof some more or if you want to run your gpu in a  PCIe 4.0 x8 slot and have lanes left over whereas in a b450 you would want to run the gpu in the PCIe 3.0 x16 slot

    As for ram 16gb is just fine, you don't need 32gb so I dunno what that other person in this thread is going on about...while nice you can always add more later on if needed for some odd reason...


    When changing mobo, cpu etc you are always best off to reformat from scratch.  I mean it not that long and you don't lose that much if  you don't have everything installed on your OS drive which I assume is the SSD you have.

    Any big files etc that you don't want to lose just put on your HDD as those wont be touched by a reformat or reinstall of the OS on the SSD.  Just keep  your two HDD unplugged when reinstalling the OS on the ssd and once the OS is up and running/updated anti virus put back on etc then plug the two HDD back in.

    Clean install would be best as otherwise you are just asking for problems.

    About mobo:

    My logic was that OP could pick the cheapest X570 motherboard available in his country and still end up with a good motherboard. As long as it's ATX or mATX form factor, I think all of those are good. A B450 motherboard would be even more cost-effective option, but then you'd have to be more careful on which one you choose.

    About RAM:

    You're right that faster RAM is better, but I disagree about your choice because that would be $70 more just for faster RAM than my choice. I think it's better to just pick something cheap around the 3 000 - 3 200 Mhz range, depending on what the OP can find cheap from his country.
    Yeah like I said a less expensive x570 mobo is a good choice for him but I strongly disagree about the ram.  AMD doesn't work like intel that uses a ring bus where you would be correct. 

    Amd uses the infinity fabric and that is tied into ram speed and is more important than it would be in an intel build.

    Choosing cheaper slow ram for an AMD build is gimping yourself.  He's far better of skipping the nvme ssd, I mean he already has his OS on one so it will bring not much improvement, and getting the more optimal ram.  I think you know this though and we just disagree on where the "break point" is on the issue. 

    You guys don't need to take my word for just google and do some research on it.




    As for the 1tb nvme is I always said it a bad way to run things now, having all your apples in the same basket, your 240gb or so ssd is a great little drive to run the OS from no need to buy another.  In fact you are better off skipping the suggested nvme drive and just keep your OS on the ssd you have now and later on when you got more spare cash during a sale get a decently priced 1 tb ssd to run as a second drive for your games and other software while keeping your HDD for music movies or other storage like needs.

    Quiz has a different philosophy but I don't agree with it.  As to the b450 mobo it's true many of them will require a bios update but not all, for example the msi one's now have a "MAX" version which has the bios already updated and are ryzen 3k ready but like I said I am looking at those for specific reasons which Is why I also said OP would be better of with a x570.

    Lots of places, will update the mobo for you if you ask them and quite a few of the b450 mobo allows to upgrade it without need of a an older amd cpu in it via usb bios flashback.

    That said sure he could upgrade what he has now but staying with a 4core isn't very future proof so for a cost effective upgrade well it's amd ryzens. Upgrading what he has now will be like chucking cash down the drain in the long run IMO.

    I still have three 4 core PC and frankly they do struggle in some games so it doesn't make much sense to upgrade to another 4 core.

    If OP wants to not worry about the cpu in the next few years he really should just go to a 6 core PC and skip upgrade his 4 core to another 4 core.
    Post edited by Asm0deus on
    Torval

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,264
    Asm0deus said:
    Yeah like I said a less expensive x570 mobo is a good choice for him but I strongly disagree about the ram.  AMD doesn't work like intel that uses a ring bus where you would be correct. 

    Amd uses the infinity fabric and that is tied into ram speed and is more important than it would be in an intel build.

    Choosing cheaper slow ram for an AMD build is gimping yourself.  He's far better of skipping the nvme ssd, I mean he already has his OS on one so it will bring not much improvement, and getting the more optimal ram.  I think you know this though and we just disagree on where the "break point" is on the issue. 

    You guys don't need to take my word for just google and do some research on it.




    As for the 1tb nvme is I always said it a bad way to run things now, having all your apples in the same basket, your 240gb or so ssd is a great little drive to run the OS from no need to buy another.  In fact you are better off skipping the suggested nvme drive and just keep your OS on the ssd you have now and later on when you got more spare cash during a sale get a decently priced 1 tb ssd to run as a second drive for your games and other software while keeping your HDD for music movies or other storage like needs.

    Quiz has a different philosophy but I don't agree with it.  As to the b450 mobo it's true many of them will require a bios update but not all, for example the msi one's now have a "MAX" version which has the bios already updated and are ryzen 3k ready but like I said I am looking at those for specific reasons which Is why I also said OP would be better of with a x570.

    Lots of places, will update the mobo for you if you ask them and quite a few of the b450 mobo allows to upgrade it without need of a an older amd cpu in it via usb bios flashback.

    That said sure he could upgrade what he has now but staying with a 4core isn't very future proof so for a cost effective upgrade well it's amd ryzens. Upgrading what he has now will be like chucking cash down the drain in the long run IMO.

    I still have three 4 core PC and frankly they do struggle in some games so it doesn't make much sense to upgrade to another 4 core.

    If OP wants to not worry about the cpu in the next few years he really should just go to a 6 core PC and skip upgrade his 4 core to another 4 core.
    If you know that you can get proper third gen Ryzen support on a particular B450 motherboard, then go ahead.  My argument is that you have to look into it, and can't just assume that it will work just because it's Socket AM4.

    As for memory, your choice of memory is completely ridiculous.  You're paying $120 for 16 GB of 3200 MHz memory.  If you're willing to overvolt like that, you could get 32 GB for $100:

    https://www.newegg.com/oloy-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820821201

    Or even if you want G.Skill, 32 GB for $115:

    https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232885

    Or, of course, 16 GB for a whole lot cheaper than what you picked.

    For that matter, even if you want to prioritize fast memory, you're doing it all wrong.  You could get 3600 MHz memory for a whole lot cheaper than the 3200 MHz memory you picked.  You could even get 32 GB of 3600 MHz memory for not very much more money.

    You seem to be prioritizing latency timings over clock speed.  You're correct that the infinity fabric scales with memory clock speed.  It doesn't scale with latency timings.  Reduced memory latency will help a little, but not a lot.  Certainly not nearly enough to justify what you're proposing to pay for it.

    And even if you do want to go nuts over latency timings, you could get something like this for $40 less:

    https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232880

    Same capacity, much higher clock speed, and a CAS latency difference of less than 0.14 ns, or around 0.2% of the total latency to grab something from system memory.  That difference is not worth $40.  Not even if you want to take the other memory latency timings into account.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    edited November 13
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Yeah like I said a less expensive x570 mobo is a good choice for him but I strongly disagree about the ram.  AMD doesn't work like intel that uses a ring bus where you would be correct. 

    Amd uses the infinity fabric and that is tied into ram speed and is more important than it would be in an intel build.

    Choosing cheaper slow ram for an AMD build is gimping yourself.  He's far better of skipping the nvme ssd, I mean he already has his OS on one so it will bring not much improvement, and getting the more optimal ram.  I think you know this though and we just disagree on where the "break point" is on the issue. 

    You guys don't need to take my word for just google and do some research on it.




    As for the 1tb nvme is I always said it a bad way to run things now, having all your apples in the same basket, your 240gb or so ssd is a great little drive to run the OS from no need to buy another.  In fact you are better off skipping the suggested nvme drive and just keep your OS on the ssd you have now and later on when you got more spare cash during a sale get a decently priced 1 tb ssd to run as a second drive for your games and other software while keeping your HDD for music movies or other storage like needs.

    Quiz has a different philosophy but I don't agree with it.  As to the b450 mobo it's true many of them will require a bios update but not all, for example the msi one's now have a "MAX" version which has the bios already updated and are ryzen 3k ready but like I said I am looking at those for specific reasons which Is why I also said OP would be better of with a x570.

    Lots of places, will update the mobo for you if you ask them and quite a few of the b450 mobo allows to upgrade it without need of a an older amd cpu in it via usb bios flashback.

    That said sure he could upgrade what he has now but staying with a 4core isn't very future proof so for a cost effective upgrade well it's amd ryzens. Upgrading what he has now will be like chucking cash down the drain in the long run IMO.

    I still have three 4 core PC and frankly they do struggle in some games so it doesn't make much sense to upgrade to another 4 core.

    If OP wants to not worry about the cpu in the next few years he really should just go to a 6 core PC and skip upgrade his 4 core to another 4 core.
    If you know that you can get proper third gen Ryzen support on a particular B450 motherboard, then go ahead.  My argument is that you have to look into it, and can't just assume that it will work just because it's Socket AM4.

    Your argument is pretty stupid as the only one arguing is you by yourself. I never suggested he get a b450 only that I was but only for a specific reason and unlike yourself I have looked into it extensively, For the OP I suggested he get the x570 since he is using w10 anyways. Dunno what you want here ...koodoos or a round of applause? For pretty much a moot point.

    As for memory, your choice of memory is completely ridiculous.  You're paying $120 for 16 GB of 3200 MHz memory.  If you're willing to overvolt like that, you could get 32 GB for $100:

    https://www.newegg.com/oloy-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820821201

    Or even if you want G.Skill, 32 GB for $115:

    https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232885

    Or, of course, 16 GB for a whole lot cheaper than what you picked.

    For that matter, even if you want to prioritize fast memory, you're doing it all wrong.  You could get 3600 MHz memory for a whole lot cheaper than the 3200 MHz memory you picked.  You could even get 32 GB of 3600 MHz memory for not very much more money.

    You seem to be prioritizing latency timings over clock speed.  You're correct that the infinity fabric scales with memory clock speed.  It doesn't scale with latency timings.  Reduced memory latency will help a little, but not a lot.  Certainly not nearly enough to justify what you're proposing to pay for it.

    And even if you do want to go nuts over latency timings, you could get something like this for $40 less:

    https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232880

    Same capacity, much higher clock speed, and a CAS latency difference of less than 0.14 ns, or around 0.2% of the total latency to grab something from system memory.  That difference is not worth $40.  Not even if you want to take the other memory latency timings into account.

    You can pretty much get 3200c14 or 3600c16 as they work out about to the same so which ever is cheaper, I assume you all read the reddit link and understood what was being said..the stupid you just spouted here right now suggest you didn't. Furthermore you added more stupid on top of this by suggesting he get ripjaws ram that is known to have issues with ryzen.  See below from your very own links
    Crash at XMP settings to 3600, only run at 2133. 10/29/2019 1:11:06 AM

    Pros: They look nice. Good price if they worked as advertised.

    Cons: When I tried to use the default XMP settings for 3600, it failed to post. Powered by an EVGA gold 850W PSU, it's a Ryzen 3700x on an MSI MPG X570 GAMING EDGE WIFI.

    I am not overclocking any other components, just trying to set these to the recommended 3600 using XMP in BIOS.

    Overall Review: I've been building PCs for about a decade, never encountered this problem with a preset XMP profile. My days of needing to overclock every "oomph" out of a product are long gone, but I do expect products to function at their advertised speeds.

    I saw another buyer who had the same problem but confirmed on THREE motherboards. He had luck with 1 at a time, but for me, it didn't matter which of the two sticks I tried, it didn't work for either or both (And yes I also tried separate slots too) I had to reset CMOS in order to post. Hopefully G.Skill contacts me soon about the issue, as I have 10 days left to return and will do so unless a solution is provided.

    I've had no issue with their memory in the past and hoping this is a quirk they may know how to resolve.

    This is why I suggest he get flare x g skill as it known to work well with ryzen.

    • 3200C14: 8.75ns
    • 3600C15: 8.33ns
    • 3600C16: 8.88ns
    Any of these are in the sweet spot oh and for gaming latency does matter and even moreso for ryzen than for intel if you think otherwise well lol


    That cheap 50$ ram is 50$ for a reason...cause it cheap and not great for gaming period.  About the only thing beyond the above you need to check for is if it work right with ryzen or not because even though 3k is much better on compatibility there still some issues.

    You go back to coding Quiz and I will go back to repairing as you obviously haven't learned yet that in theory rarely reflects in reality.

    Oh and your made up .2% is just that made up crap.   The difference between good ram and cheap ram is about 5% to 8%...if you stick to the mentioned sweet spots you will be about 1%  difference.


    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 4x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, samsung evo 860 500gb SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,264
    Asm0deus said:

    Your argument is pretty stupid as the only one arguing is you by yourself. I never suggested he get a b450 only that I was but only for a specific reason and unlike yourself I have looked into it extensively, For the OP I suggested he get the x570 since he is using w10 anyways. Dunno what you want here ...koodoos or a round of applause? For pretty much a moot point.

    You can pretty much get 3200c14 or 3600c16 as they work out about to the same so which ever is cheaper, I assume you all read the reddit link and understood what was being said..the stupid you just spouted here right now suggest you didn't. Furthermore you added more stupid on top of this by suggesting he get ripjaws ram that is known to have issues with ryzen.  See below from your very own links

    This is why I suggest he get flare x g skill as it known to work well with ryzen.

    • 3200C14: 8.75ns
    • 3600C15: 8.33ns
    • 3600C16: 8.88ns
    Any of these are in the sweet spot oh and for gaming latency does matter and even moreso for ryzen than for intel if you think otherwise well lol


    That cheap 50$ ram is 50$ for a reason...cause it cheap and not great for gaming period.  About the only thing beyond the above you need to check for is if it work right with ryzen or not because even though 3k is much better on compatibility there still some issues.

    You go back to coding Quiz and I will go back to repairing as you obviously haven't learned yet that in theory rarely reflects in reality.

    Oh and your made up .2% is just that made up crap.   The difference between good ram and cheap ram is about 5% to 8%...if you stick to the mentioned sweet spots you will be about 1%  difference.
    I have no idea why you so strongly object to my explaining B450 compatibility issues.  It's an important point to understand if you're buying a motherboard for third generation Ryzen and would like a cheaper option.

    As for memory, you don't seem realize that if a memory request has to go all the way to DDR4, it's going to be a lot longer than 9 ns between when the CPU realizes it wants the data and when the data shows up.  That total latency is the important one for situations where memory latency is the problem.  Among other things, it has to check to see if the data is already in L1, L2, or L3 caches to see if actually going to DDR4 is even necessary, convert the logical memory address to the physical one, travel from the CPU die to the I/O die and vice versa, and travel in both directions through motherboard traces from the CPU socket to the RAM slots.  That's all in addition to what actually happens inside the memory module proper, which is the only thing that memory latency timings can tell you anything about.

    The total amount of time that it takes to get data from system memory varies some by platform.  On third generation Ryzen, it's commonly on the order of 70 ns.  Thus, the difference between 9 ns and 11 ns from CAS latency is only going to be about a 3% difference in the total latency that it takes to access memory.

    A 3% difference in total memory latency could, at worst, mean a 3% difference in performance.  It's not hard to create a memory latency synthetic benchmark, and some programs will show that sort of scaling, but most won't.  Most of the time, memory latency makes a small enough difference that you'll get more benefit by spending the money it would take to get high end memory elsewhere.  For example, get twice as much memory, or eight CPU cores instead of six.

    You can get to a memory latency difference around the 8% figure that you cite if your idea of cheap RAM is something like what I have:  2666 MHz, CAS 19.  But even that will commonly lead to a very small difference in real-world performance.  In contrast, the difference between your data fitting in memory versus paging to disk (on the order of 100000 ns for an SSD, or 10000000 ns for a hard drive) is not small.  Nor are the real-world effects of getting bit errors because you've clocked your memory too aggressively.
    Gdemami
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