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Pantheon/Visionary Realms bi-weekly videos

13

Comments

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    edited January 24
    Kyleran said:
    Kumapon said:
    Jan 16th video. In it the devs talked about the new spell book UI. Farthale being split up into smaller zones, and some Q@A. 




    Without having to watch people talk for 41 minuets,  What do they mean by splitting up into smaller zones ? 

    I was hoping for larger zones.... I hope this isn't an instanced or lobby game.  Modern WoW turned into that for a while and they had to change it back, people were lobbying in Stormwind.

    After all my rhetoric, I was expecting a good game eventually.  But things are really concerning me lately.   
    Err, you know, "true fans" of a game are sort of obligated to watch every video to their excruciatingly end.

    Only we who loosely follow the game get to skip all that and request others do the work for us.

    Stay in your lane sir.

    ;)
    Yet the very post above states the very same concern you have.  

    <quote>
    Hrmm, I hope this doesn't end up how how Age of Conan was designed, with small zones all over the place.


    "true fans".... We all know this can change over time depending on information given. I'm still a fan but no longer a true fan.  This can change back again depending on if VR can EVENTUALLY show us what the game is all about..... Is it a lobby game ?..... We haven't a clue.


    A little off topic from above:
    A lobby game would fit with the slow combat. Groups would be intrusive to each other with the slow movement across the playing field.  After all with the video coverage so far, it takes two hours to move two hundred yards across the map and two hours to clear a single floor of a Keep.

    For me I can commit to long play sessions.  After all this is a product of first generation mmorpgs BUT it seems you don't get anything accomplished... how long do you think groups of six can be held together ?...... As of now this would have to be experimental. They can't possibly expect players to stick out unrewarding hours of nothing accomplished..... It proves this game in not even started yet ! 

    TWO HOURS of down a hallway and make a left into a room. Really ?
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,380
    delete5230 said:

     I'm still a fan but no longer a true fan.  
    You are going to have to give back the fez and the moose head sceptre.
    KyleranOG_Zorvan

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    Amathe said:
    delete5230 said:

     I'm still a fan but no longer a true fan.  
    You are going to have to give back the fez and the moose head sceptre.
    I'm keeping the raccoon hat, I told them I lost it. 
    KumaponXarkoAmatheOG_Zorvan
  • JeffSpicoli214JeffSpicoli214 Newbie CommonPosts: 11
    I invested in Pantheon and now I know that I have been taken by a ponzi scheme.  The videos and dev diaries are just the same stuff said a little differently.  No real progress on the game, nothing to show but the same stuff.  Stop wasting your money and stop waiting for this one.  Its not going to happen, at least by this company.  We can have a little hope that maybe when the investment money runs out, they will sell what they have to another development team that will see it to completion.
    bng28
  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 1,907
    I invested in Pantheon and now I know that I have been taken by a ponzi scheme. 
    Pon·zi scheme
    /ˈpänzē ˌskēm/
    noun
    1. a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.

    I donated day 1 and haven't seen any quick returns. Perhaps you're thinking of something else?
  • JeffSpicoli214JeffSpicoli214 Newbie CommonPosts: 11
    edited February 1
    What is next for Pantheon, VR, another battle royal game like AOC to calm your crowd funded investors while milking the last little bit of investment money from them before you announce the end of development and close your doors?
    bng28
  • KumaponKumapon Member RarePosts: 1,345
    I haven't updated in awhile. Here are the videos that came out these past 2 weeks. 




    AmatheKylerangervaise1
  • TanistTanist Member UncommonPosts: 272
    All positives, no negatives.

    Shaping up to be a typical mainstream game. I mean, can't "offend" the players, they after all... are there to have "fun(tm)" right?

    Pantheon has become a disappointment and another sell out.
  • TanistTanist Member UncommonPosts: 272
    edited February 17
    TEKK3N said:
    Great stuff.
    Unbalanced Races/Classes (or unique) is what MMORPGs sorely needed.

    The era of copy/paste for the sake of balancing has to end.
    I hope this game gets finished, because is exactly the kind of game I want to play.

    The fact that there are no negatives is a huge problem. All I see is a bunch of races where you have to choose which power-up/bonus you want, but where is the actual critical choice? Where is the balance you speak of? Balance implies you have to weight the positives and the negatives of a given choice. There are no negatives, only different positives between them.

    Each race should have certain bonuses, but also negatives/limitations associated with them.

    EQ did this, but apparently an evolved game, that is improving on what was done in the past decides to remove the actual game play in favor of "everyone gets a prize" type of development?

    These are the subtle decisions that is why this game is turning into another mainstream game. They aren't providing game play, they are building entertainment. You can't have game play if you don't have to make decisions where you weight the good with the bad, have consequences, etc... All you get is bland boring entertainment.

    EQ had lots of choices that came with consequences. That is, there was risk vs reward, not reward vs more reward.

    Also, race negatives provides for deeper lore in the game. Each race certainly has unique advantages, but also has limitations. Those limitations should be a part of that decision process on which race to choose. The player should have to deal with those choices throughout their characters life. That is game play, that is what cRPGing is, playing a role, and being required to deal with the strengths and limitations of that role. Modern games these days have lost that sense and all they end up being is barbie dress up simulators with slot machine play.


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    Kumapon said:
    I haven't updated in awhile. Here are the videos that came out these past 2 


    Over two hours of videos....there's a signicant amount of time which could have been better spent working on the game,  yes?

    Anyone have a link to a TLDR summary of the relevant points and gameplay videos? 

    No way am I listening thru this much yammering to find out where things stand.


    OG_Zorvandelete5230Timukas

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • bng28bng28 Member UncommonPosts: 71
    Kyleran said:
    Kumapon said:
    I haven't updated in awhile. Here are the videos that came out these past 2 


    Over two hours of videos....there's a signicant amount of time which could have been better spent working on the game,  yes?

    Anyone have a link to a TLDR summary of the relevant points and gameplay videos? 

    No way am I listening thru this much yammering to find out where things stand.


    Gee, do people really think that devs arent actual people, in which it is okay to do other things, and should do nothing but give every ounce of energy, work effort/time and free-time to their project?

    I'm following pantheon as close as the next guy, but come on youre better than this.  If they werent releasing any kind of updates like these, then instead of complaining they arent working on the game, we're complaining they arent telling us about the work getting done.  *sigh*
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,903
    bng28 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kumapon said:
    I haven't updated in awhile. Here are the videos that came out these past 2 


    Over two hours of videos....there's a signicant amount of time which could have been better spent working on the game,  yes?

    Anyone have a link to a TLDR summary of the relevant points and gameplay videos? 

    No way am I listening thru this much yammering to find out where things stand.


    Gee, do people really think that devs arent actual people, in which it is okay to do other things, and should do nothing but give every ounce of energy, work effort/time and free-time to their project?

    I'm following pantheon as close as the next guy, but come on youre better than this.  If they werent releasing any kind of updates like these, then instead of complaining they arent working on the game, we're complaining they arent telling us about the work getting done.  *sigh*

    The only real time when the customers *need* to know the status of development is when the project is complete.  In almost every case, the customer has no vested interest, they want to play something.  The only ones who care about how the development is proceeding are those with a financial interest in (i.e., will be making money from) the completed product.

    So, any video production to give the status of a project to customers (and potential customers) is an unwise use of development time.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • bng28bng28 Member UncommonPosts: 71
    Mendel said:
    bng28 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kumapon said:
    I haven't updated in awhile. Here are the videos that came out these past 2 


    Over two hours of videos....there's a signicant amount of time which could have been better spent working on the game,  yes?

    Anyone have a link to a TLDR summary of the relevant points and gameplay videos? 

    No way am I listening thru this much yammering to find out where things stand.


    Gee, do people really think that devs arent actual people, in which it is okay to do other things, and should do nothing but give every ounce of energy, work effort/time and free-time to their project?

    I'm following pantheon as close as the next guy, but come on youre better than this.  If they werent releasing any kind of updates like these, then instead of complaining they arent working on the game, we're complaining they arent telling us about the work getting done.  *sigh*

    The only real time when the customers *need* to know the status of development is when the project is complete.  In almost every case, the customer has no vested interest, they want to play something.  The only ones who care about how the development is proceeding are those with a financial interest in (i.e., will be making money from) the completed product.

    So, any video production to give the status of a project to customers (and potential customers) is an unwise use of development time.



    Assuming that they are using "development time" to make these videos, i would agree. 

    However, it appears these videos at large (not all, but in general) are presented outside of regular business hours.  

    Imo, a bigger waste of resources was developing a merchandise store for a game thats not out yet. 


  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,587
    bng28 said:


    However, it appears these videos at large (not all, but in general) are presented outside of regular business hours.  



    What's the evidence for that?  I'm genuinely curious.  I really sincerely don't know much about whether or not crowd funding videos are done outside of business hours so I'm really interested in seeing any evidence on whether or not that's the case.
    delete5230
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,896
    Mendel said:
    bng28 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kumapon said:
    I haven't updated in awhile. Here are the videos that came out these past 2 


    Over two hours of videos....there's a signicant amount of time which could have been better spent working on the game,  yes?

    Anyone have a link to a TLDR summary of the relevant points and gameplay videos? 

    No way am I listening thru this much yammering to find out where things stand.


    Gee, do people really think that devs arent actual people, in which it is okay to do other things, and should do nothing but give every ounce of energy, work effort/time and free-time to their project?

    I'm following pantheon as close as the next guy, but come on youre better than this.  If they werent releasing any kind of updates like these, then instead of complaining they arent working on the game, we're complaining they arent telling us about the work getting done.  *sigh*

    The only real time when the customers *need* to know the status of development is when the project is complete.  In almost every case, the customer has no vested interest, they want to play something.  The only ones who care about how the development is proceeding are those with a financial interest in (i.e., will be making money from) the completed product.

    So, any video production to give the status of a project to customers (and potential customers) is an unwise use of development time.



    100% false. Hype is invaluable. 
    gervaise1Raidan_EQ
    "Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as 'rare'"
    - Ungood
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,617
    edited February 17




    100% false. Hype is invaluable. 
    True, hype is invaluable. But what is also invaluable is not getting the masses all frothed up if you can't deliver.

    Remember in Warhammer online when they cut a whole city just a short time before release?

    The wailing and gnashing of teeth from that decision! I'm sure that they would have loved to have kept that city if it would add value to the game but they cut to to either save themselves some development time or they decided it would just separate the player base too much or "some other reason."

    They should be able to make these decisions before release but some players want things in stone NOW.
    gervaise1Mendel
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited February 17
    Sovrath said:




    100% false. Hype is invaluable. 
    True, hype is invaluable. But what is also invaluable is not getting the masses all frothed up if you can't deliver.

    Remember in Warhammer online when they cut a whole city just a short time before release?

    The wailing and gnashing of teeth from that decision! I'm sure that they would have loved to have kept that city if it would add value to the game but they cut to to either save themselves some development time or they decided it would just separate the player base too much or "some other reason."

    They should be able to make these decisions before release but some players want things in stone NOW.
    If they had all the money needed to fully develop the game - from investors or as a result of being part of a larger company - videos etc. are a distraction and of no real value until its time to start a marketing campaign.

    Pantheon is not one of those developments. It needs to entice people to "pre-order" to get the money to make the game.

    Do we need 2 hour long videos though? Absolutely not. Shorter amounts of information - a quick heads up of what has happened in the last week/2 weeks/month and then - maybe - a more in-depth look into "something". Something being how they design a weapon, future plans, the steps they go through when looking at class balance or racial traits ..... or a segment on why they cut the city. Anything basically as long as it ties back to the game development. And if it elicits discussion even better. 20 minutes tops is probably long enough as well imo.

    Enough info to keep backers informed that things are ticking over. Some extra to get "true fans" interested enough to discuss the ins and outs of the "something". And some headlines to help drive sales.

    Doing it once is easy. Twice not so bad. To keep doing it though is when it gets hard. When you are struggling to think of what to say and the last vid didn't see a sales spike. Getting the information out though that they are developing a game is crucial though if they are to be able to see it through.
    MendelRaidan_EQ
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    bng28 said:



    Assuming that they are using "development time" to make these videos, i would agree. 

    However, it appears these videos at large (not all, but in general) are presented outside of regular business hours.  

    Imo, a bigger waste of resources was developing a merchandise store for a game thats not out yet. 


    I think there is a suggestion that if these were done outside business hours - as in "in their own time" - then they won;t have been paid. Which is a stupid suggestion. 

    Leaving aside the fact that business hours are, usually, pretty flexible on a development like this (they can be annoyingly! flexible on major projects) this stuff is a part of the development. Yes even the store.

    No money = no game.

    Or are you going to simply hand over the millions they need? Rhetorical question btw but asked with the intent of making a general point. No money = no game. 

    They would love to have several hundred thousand pledge say $100. Up front, in advance, based simply on some presentation slides with a few ideas and some concept art.

    Didn't happen. Was never likely to happen. Say hello to a hand to mouth existence that means they need to do the vids, they need(ed) to have a store. Even at this stage they may need a miracle.

    What we can do is be positive. Avoid pointless negativity. Which doesn't mean they get a free pass but they i.e. Pantheon will be more likely to release if it gets "positive vibes". 


    MendelTimukas
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,903
    Mendel said:
    bng28 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kumapon said:
    I haven't updated in awhile. Here are the videos that came out these past 2 


    Over two hours of videos....there's a signicant amount of time which could have been better spent working on the game,  yes?

    Anyone have a link to a TLDR summary of the relevant points and gameplay videos? 

    No way am I listening thru this much yammering to find out where things stand.


    Gee, do people really think that devs arent actual people, in which it is okay to do other things, and should do nothing but give every ounce of energy, work effort/time and free-time to their project?

    I'm following pantheon as close as the next guy, but come on youre better than this.  If they werent releasing any kind of updates like these, then instead of complaining they arent working on the game, we're complaining they arent telling us about the work getting done.  *sigh*

    The only real time when the customers *need* to know the status of development is when the project is complete.  In almost every case, the customer has no vested interest, they want to play something.  The only ones who care about how the development is proceeding are those with a financial interest in (i.e., will be making money from) the completed product.

    So, any video production to give the status of a project to customers (and potential customers) is an unwise use of development time.



    100% false. Hype is invaluable. 

    Marketing is something that traditionally *should* come within sight of a finished product.  That's when hype becomes invaluable.  Then, the hype is used to sell something.  Are you trying to suggest that Pantheon will be released next month?  That seems totally contrary to common knowledge.

    Most of these videos seem more like a "making of" video or ego projects, a documentatary of how a product was built.  They may be nice to see after a project is complete and people are playing the game.  With a game to play, though, how many people really wonder about the history of that game?  If that game turns out to be horrible, who will really want to watch how it was made?



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • KumaponKumapon Member RarePosts: 1,345
    This weeks Stream was done with CohhCarage. Today the dev's talked, and showed off the new UI, ability bar, and new zones. 


  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,896
    Mendel said:
    Mendel said:
    bng28 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kumapon said:
    I haven't updated in awhile. Here are the videos that came out these past 2 


    Over two hours of videos....there's a signicant amount of time which could have been better spent working on the game,  yes?

    Anyone have a link to a TLDR summary of the relevant points and gameplay videos? 

    No way am I listening thru this much yammering to find out where things stand.


    Gee, do people really think that devs arent actual people, in which it is okay to do other things, and should do nothing but give every ounce of energy, work effort/time and free-time to their project?

    I'm following pantheon as close as the next guy, but come on youre better than this.  If they werent releasing any kind of updates like these, then instead of complaining they arent working on the game, we're complaining they arent telling us about the work getting done.  *sigh*

    The only real time when the customers *need* to know the status of development is when the project is complete.  In almost every case, the customer has no vested interest, they want to play something.  The only ones who care about how the development is proceeding are those with a financial interest in (i.e., will be making money from) the completed product.

    So, any video production to give the status of a project to customers (and potential customers) is an unwise use of development time.



    100% false. Hype is invaluable. 

    Marketing is something that traditionally *should* come within sight of a finished product.  That's when hype becomes invaluable.  Then, the hype is used to sell something.  Are you trying to suggest that Pantheon will be released next month?  That seems totally contrary to common knowledge.

    Most of these videos seem more like a "making of" video or ego projects, a documentatary of how a product was built.  They may be nice to see after a project is complete and people are playing the game.  With a game to play, though, how many people really wonder about the history of that game?  If that game turns out to be horrible, who will really want to watch how it was made?



    Not “suggesting” anything. Just pointing out that you are wrong. 
    "Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as 'rare'"
    - Ungood
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,115
    If developers say nothing, people complain for lack of updates.
    If developers make a video, people complain the time should have better be spent in developing the game.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    I rather have any kind of communication from the devs rather than thinking they are on the beach sipping Mojitos.
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,955
    I am sure there are fans of the game that actually pour over these videos and enjoy them. Some of us may find it too long but the game has many supporters. I watch Cohh and sometimes from beginning to the end of every video. I want to see how the game is shaping up.
    Amathe

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    TEKK3N said:
    If developers say nothing, people complain for lack of updates.
    If developers make a video, people complain the time should have better be spent in developing the game.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    I rather have any kind of communication from the devs rather than thinking they are on the beach sipping Mojitos.
    Focus should be mostly on in game footage, minimal commentary,  10 minutes or less, enuff said.

    I was raised on MTV, my tolerance for watching something on the internet is equal to a long music video. (Think Thriller) 

    A short, written presentation (i.e. 3 PP slides or less) summarizing the features or accomplishments should accompany it as well. 

    Think of it as the "Executive" version.

    ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    edited February 19
    bng28 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kumapon said:
    I haven't updated in awhile. Here are the videos that came out these past 2 


    Over two hours of videos....there's a signicant amount of time which could have been better spent working on the game,  yes?

    Anyone have a link to a TLDR summary of the relevant points and gameplay videos? 

    No way am I listening thru this much yammering to find out where things stand.


    Gee, do people really think that devs arent actual people, in which it is okay to do other things, and should do nothing but give every ounce of energy, work effort/time and free-time to their project?

    I'm following pantheon as close as the next guy, but come on youre better than this.  If they werent releasing any kind of updates like these, then instead of complaining they arent working on the game, we're complaining they arent telling us about the work getting done.  *sigh*
    You are correct, I am "better," well, if by that you mean like many I don't have over two hours to spend watching videos about the game's design.

    I don't want them to "tell me" what is being done, I want them to show me their progress in the actual game.

    When we build a feature for our customers we don't tell them what we did,  nor explain in depth how we did it,  we show them an actual prototype of the functionality in action. (Usually in 15 minutes or so)

    We then quickly move it to test so the customers can get their hands on it.to provide feedback.

    Most of these indie KSer MMOs are long past the point where showing concept art and design docs are worthwhile.

    SC has easily proven if you build something and let gamers play with it they'll practically throw money at your game.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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