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In your opinion what are some common Bad Game Design decisions that tend to get overlooked in MMOs?

2

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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,115
    One of the things that bother me is 
    if your MMORPG is marketed as a PvP MMO,

    why force players to PvE Level Grind to do endgame PvP?

    makes no sense to me. I have to PvE Level grind level 1- X just to seriously stand a chance in any form of progressive PvP gameplay. 
    AlBQuirkySteelhelm

    image

  • RungarRungar Member UncommonPosts: 67
    ive found raids to be the most destructive.  i find it brings out the worst in people. 
    AlBQuirkyCryomatrixSteelhelm
    We shall know them by their works
  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699
    I think it would a much much shorter list if we just named the design decisions the genre has actually gotten right over the past decade.
    AlBQuirkyTorval

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,211
    Separate PvP and PvE severs 
  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,189
    Focusing on story. I really don't care about story in an MMORPG.

    Instead the focus should be on implementing systems that improve player interactions with other players. Find creative ways to foster interdependence.

    Unfortunately once you give players the ability to ignore all other players and still succeed, it's very difficult to take that away from them.
    MMOExposedAlBQuirkySteelhelmHawkaya399
  • WarWitchWarWitch Member UncommonPosts: 314
    Nerfing anything that's released. In the original eq the dev sword they would never nerf anything they put in the game and stuck to it for years. 


    Why build power and play for years for a build they will be nerfed into being useless and not even wanted. An example of this is in gw2 where an ascended cloromancer was loved and now considered useless and is unwanted. 


    Any MMO that's changing gear and stats to where player are forced to run the flavor of the month or the flavor of the season 3 months etc will cause players to fall away.

    Some day we will have a MMO where the week classes-skills-gear is increased to balance. 
    But then I also hope for someday to have a dev team where this is done in advance before release :)

    Sadly the industry is making a NEW Class way powerfull sell it cash shop-expansion. Let it rule for 2-3 months then nerf it and Sell another NEW class lol to generate game compony money.

    AlBQuirky
  • aleosaleos Member UncommonPosts: 1,934
    A new mechanic that's actually pretty solid but the game entirely chooses not to focus on basic standard MMORPG foundations causing the new great idea to be completely irrelevant because the game itself is lame.
    AlBQuirky
  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,208
    tutorials that are 'click here, click here, drag here, click here". I need a second or two to process the information, not whack-a-mole the next shiny button!!
    AlBQuirky

    image

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,309
    Dedicated game forums
    Listening to players
    Linear on rails gameplay
    Gender locked classes...with few exceptions never make sense
    Anything Chris Roberts does without supervision...oh shiny...
    The entire BR genre is (imo) a mistake.
    AlBQuirky

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 1,951
    Any game that has the resources and ability to provide better gameplay but either for greed, laziness or both don't. ESO and everything that game could be is a good example IMO of what I described.
    AlBQuirkyRungar
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,115
    Alders said:
    Focusing on story. I really don't care about story in an MMORPG.

    Instead the focus should be on implementing systems that improve player interactions with other players. Find creative ways to foster interdependence.

    Unfortunately once you give players the ability to ignore all other players and still succeed, it's very difficult to take that away from them.
    This I agree a lot with. This was my issue with SWTOR prerelease during the hype phase. Whenever the developers (Bioware) would do some kind of hype press conference of some kind, all they really ever talked about about was how revolutionary their Story system will be and how unique story telling would be in SWTOR. That was a red flag for me. Then we found out how much MONEY out of their development budget that they were putting into STORY elements like voice acting, that you likely will only get excited about one when you first play through the level experience of that MMO, and then that voice over becomes wasted resources that could have gone to more game play elements that have a longer lasting appeal and replay value.

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,115
    DMKano said:
    Archepass system in ArcheAge - just awful
    yeah I am still trying to understand this system. Lot of confusion in that game. Quest Item Infusions, is another. Never experience something as bad as that in a MMO before. 

    image

  • LithuanianLithuanian Member UncommonPosts: 431
    1. RNG. Situation where I may get all the shinies and you get slime frog remains. Bad luck/karma... Loot RNG must be replaced with guaranteed items given to everyone (plus - class usable; if I can wear light armour and get epic super-heavy, bound to toon - emmm....what to do?).

    2. Un-neccesary grind. Don't get me wrong, I like grinding as long, as it is doable and gives something. Imagine, you have to kill 300 Stinky frogs and there are only two spots: one with 5 and one with 2 frogs. There are more players on server and in that map. Your chance for doing this is...? If there is grind, there should be legal landscape mean to do it efficiently.

    3. "Wasn't meant to be" pseudologic. Imagine, you grind Slime frogs and find nice item that gives you +100 strenght. Good one. Next your toon finds same item. Soon server starts farming Slime frogs for shiny item. Developers see and just destroy all shinies. "It wasn't meant to be, go *** yourself" - they tell you. Developers should be responsible for things they create. If it's not exploit (Istaria's distance gathering) - admit mistake and leave it be.
    Another topic - making things harder just to make things harder. This Slime frog hit you with 55 hp...ok, we will do 255 hp, it's good - and just because it's good, you lose your dps. All changes should be beneficial to players, not monsters.

    4. Oblivion lands. Yeah, your starter area you won't return to. Same level 7 monsters, starter NPCs...Solution: make high level quests be there also. SWTOR handles it nice, even Lotro had some. Otherwise you have lands that newbies tend to leave a.s.a.p

    5. Oblivion items. Remember that lvl.20 area with hard to get Supreme Armour of Owning? Yeah, you get armour, at lvl.25 you get new one, at lvl.30 you get twice as powerfull...no need to run dungeon that rewards with Supreme Armour. Unless one roleplays heavily, of course.

    6.Too harsh restrictions for free players, citing gold spammers. Unable to use any chat, unless buying chat option. Unable to send mails. Limited to really low level. Unable even to whisper to anyone. Unable to post on forums. Hey, even toolbar restriction. While restrictions for f2p is a must have and no one complains about logical ones - just not too big ones.
    AlBQuirky
  • skadadskadad Member UncommonPosts: 392
    instateleport to dungeon from groupfinders, mixing pve and pvp ( gankers ).
    AlBQuirkySteelhelm
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,250
    bcbully said:
    Separate PvP and PvE severs 
    May I ask why this bothers you?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,212
    edited October 2019
    My main issues were already mentioned, with this on top:
    Combat being the only focus and only grouping/social bridge.  It is the worst and most annoying way to be forced to interact.  It is also one of the most shallow things you can focus on.
    So much this. I've been like a broken record on this since the late MUD years... anyone even played RPG (ok, with an at least moderately good GM) can tell, combat is not the bread and butter of roleplaying. Not even close. Except if you're one of those dice-addicted rollplayers...


    Second,
    AlBQuirky said:
    Everyone MUST be equal/the same.
    which is a much broader topic, includes gear score, watered down classes and mechanics, FotM classes and builds, etc.
    MMORPGs should give as much flexibility and a wide array of options as possible. Like @cameltosis said with the early SoA years of LotRO, but I'd add the first year of TSW too, or AoC before RotGS and the faction grind.
    If your content is only accesible/playable with a very strictly set of gear, class, build etc., you have a bad game design.


    A third one, unmentioned so far maybe because it's rare (thank god), forced pvp. Like RaiderZ and FoM did - guess what, both of those are gone, FoM actually died multiple times. I'm not saying that was the killing factor (RaiderZ had massive duping and an ignorant dev team, FoM was just mismanaged at every relaunch), but I'm sure it had a big impact.
    If you really want to put pvp in your otherwise PvE game (which is a bad move on its own, but I'm biased since I don't like pvp :D ) at least separate it from the rest, and definitely don't force all of your players to participate. If you do, don't be surprised if most of them rather just leave.
    AlBQuirky
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,131
    Quest/task forcus . I kind of drop a game right away when i have to do quest this task that at start of the game

    AlBQuirky
  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 2,659
    Deliberately making the leveling process bad so people think end game is better
    "Endgame".
    Difficulty being a hp bar that depletes slower.
    Legendaries not being legendary.
    "Balanced" Classes
    AlBQuirky

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,634
    bcbully said:
    Separate PvP and PvE severs 
    I use to think this too, but starting to think we're better off without the constant nerfs.
    AlBQuirkyHatefull
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,227
    AlBQuirky said:
    bcbully said:
    Separate PvP and PvE severs 
    May I ask why this bothers you?
    Probably because he wants to force his play style on others.
    AlBQuirkyHatefull
    Martens: "With all due respect, madam, where are you going with this?"
    Avasarala: "Wherever I goddamn like."
  • AzamoreAzamore Newbie CommonPosts: 3
    Mechanics that make the game soloable. 
    homogenization of roles and classes
    simplifying things   
    Group finder 
    Steelhelm
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,211
    cheyane said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    bcbully said:
    Separate PvP and PvE severs 
    May I ask why this bothers you?
    Probably because he wants to force his play style on others.
    I believe mmorpgs that must have both server types are generally poorly designed.

    AlBQuirky
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,960
    I think EVE has the best mash up of PvE and PvP. 

    There are relatively safe zones . . . and there are places with no safe zones and so if you want safety you can have it, if you want danger and more rewards you can have it. 


    AlBQuirky
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,817
    I think EVE has the best mash up of PvE and PvP. 

    There are relatively safe zones . . . and there are places with no safe zones and so if you want safety you can have it, if you want danger and more rewards you can have it. 


    If you want safety go to null sec and if you want danger start a new account and leave your high sec station. Yes, I agree.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; EvE Online

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • BladeburaibaBladeburaiba Member UncommonPosts: 117
    In realm vs realm games, your power grows infinitely the more people you have, which means it's 100% numbers, and not 70%.

    In real life, it's not exactly like that, as everything has drawbacks.  The bigger your army is, the slower it moves, the less effective the communication, harder to coordinate, easier damage large parts of it, etc.

    In GW2, a large army moves as fast as a small group, has instant communication to everybody, is harder to damage because more people more heals, and everyone can scatter if you throw a big bomb at them no matter if there are 100 people standing in one place.

    For me, it's no fun as either the smaller army, or the larger army.  No change to win, or no challenge in winning.

    I'd like to see a developer give large groups drawbacks to go along with the benefits to see if that would be fun.  Example,

    1. if you bunch of in huge groups, speed debuff
    2. Collision detection so if you group up and they throw a bomb at you, well RIP
    3. Effectiveness of heals goes down in huge groups, or
    4. Attrition of resources/lower health to simulate having to feed a large army.
    5. People can hear you only within a certain distance, so you would have to organize into platoons for effectiveness

    AlBQuirkycameltosisVermillion_RaventhalimmodiumAdamantine
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