One thing I am surprised at is the seeming lack of concern from the players on the official forums about Richard Garriot dumping the game that he supposedly cared so much about. If the game was healthy and profitable, why would he do that? They also seem to actually believe that he is going to stay significantly involved with SotA, even though he has barely been present for months.
He wasn't present at all for UO past the first couple of months of that game's 13+ year life so far yet people still worshipped SoTA as his ultimate second coming of the good old days of UO.
So RG was just involved with UO for 2 months? So the game just launched, fully functioning, with no development?
Oh wait UO didn't just spring up out of nowhere. It was created from the ground up basically by ... guess who? Clue: initials RG.
And so was SOTA. Hooray!
Considering how the developers stated original UO was dying until they changed lots of things long after RG jumped ship... well, that explains SOTA I guess. Hope y'all got what you paid for!
So one of Port's founders created an LLC and pretends to "buy" all the assets and IP that is SOTA, even though he already technically owned the assets as being a founder (and I think part owner, not sure on that). Crazy desperate shenanigans from a company that specialized in crazy, desperate shenanigans. There's got to be some kind of tax evasion or embezzlement felony in there, somewhere.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
So one of Port's founders created an LLC and pretends to "buy" all the assets and IP that is SOTA, even though he already technically owned the assets as being a founder (and I think part owner, not sure on that). Crazy desperate shenanigans from a company that specialized in crazy, desperate shenanigans. There's got to be some kind of tax evasion or embezzlement felony in there, somewhere.
There is, clearly part of the year long effort to divorce Richard's active involvement from game and company to try to limit creditors or the tax man's ability to pierce the corporate veil (which Texas courts are normally adverse to doing ) and go after his assets.
Removal of titles especially his, moving back to NY, actually attending meetings using a robot to represent him, no corporate tax filings in 2019, making Chris President and now this.
Just watch, after the inevitible bankrupcy and game closure Chris will show up in the future working for Richard or one of his friends as a reward for riding this disaster off the cliff.
Richard will walk away scot free while the investors, backers and taxman (meaning all of us) get left holding the bag.
No matter what else Richard always knew how to hire good lawyers, ask NCSoft about that.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The whales that pumped tens of thousands into the game may get together and file a lawsuit if the game were to be shut down or things they were promised not delivered.
Isn't this the same thing SOE did with Daybreak and Warner Brothers with Lotro to prevent lawsuits. Pass game off to "former" employees in a "new" company that worked for previous company. Making it seem like the company changed hands when really it's just legal hocus pocus so no one can sue em'.
No. Sony sold SOE as a complete company, and SOE still exists even if under different name. If someone wanted to sue them, they could.
This is much more alarming because Portalarium transferred all their assets. An asset transfer like this leads to a situation where Catnip games does need to fulfill Portalarium's obligations. It's normally used as a means to avoid paying your bills while still continuing the operation.
Not sure what country you're from but in the USA when a company has changed ownership on every level(Fed info) it makes it a lot harder for someone to sue them. I have not read the T & C of SotA but if service was not promised to be continued by the new owner in there if the company changed hands or in the agreement made with the "new company" then they do not have to fulfill their obligations like you said. In this specific case if the whales or anyone decided to sue they would most likely have to sue Garriott as an individual rather than his company and I think he may be banking on his cloak of UO immunity to shield him from that cause who could do that to lord british, right?
What I meant with my SOE comparison is that they, just like WB and now Portalarium did what they did possibly to evade the legal troubles that could come if all of those companies ended their game services abruptly.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So one of Port's founders created an LLC and pretends to "buy" all the assets and IP that is SOTA, even though he already technically owned the assets as being a founder (and I think part owner, not sure on that). Crazy desperate shenanigans from a company that specialized in crazy, desperate shenanigans. There's got to be some kind of tax evasion or embezzlement felony in there, somewhere.
There is, clearly part of the year long effort to divorce Richard's active involvement from game and company to try to limit creditors or the tax man's ability to pierce the corporate veil (which Texas courts are normally adverse to doing ) and go after his assets.
Removal of titles especially his, moving back to NY, actually attending meetings using a robot to represent him, no corporate tax filings in 2019, making Chris President and now this.
Just watch, after the inevitible bankrupcy and game closure Chris will show up in the future working for Richard or one of his friends as a reward for riding this disaster off the cliff.
Richard will walk away scot free while the investors, backers and taxman (meaning all of us) get left holding the bag.
No matter what else Richard always knew how to hire good lawyers, ask NCSoft about that.
Richard's brother Robert is the one with all the business acumen. He's the guy who always made the cutthroat decisions, but, according to other folks who worked there, the only reason that Origin Systems was successful as a business.
RG was always an airy-headed idea guy.
As an ameliorating factor, RG had different ideas for this game early on, but investors and fans only wanted retread Ultima. So, back to the rut it went. Seems like it just dug in deeper and deeper.....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Catnip Games is basically Portalarium. Exact same people and exact same setup. Only difference is they moved everything under Chris Spears company. Nothing has changed at all, probably was done in order to avoid some legal entanglement they created along the way.
They started this ball rolling last year in 2018 when they did all the paperwork to make Chris the CEO of Portalarium, which he denied knowing anything about even though there was proof that he signed legal document to make it official.
No one new is taking over SotA and is going to miraculously turn the game around. Same people and same principles. Same liars, just different name.
Isn't this the same thing SOE did with Daybreak and Warner Brothers with Lotro to prevent lawsuits. Pass game off to "former" employees in a "new" company that worked for previous company. Making it seem like the company changed hands when really it's just legal hocus pocus so no one can sue em'.
No. Sony sold SOE as a complete company, and SOE still exists even if under different name. If someone wanted to sue them, they could.
This is much more alarming because Portalarium transferred all their assets. An asset transfer like this leads to a situation where Catnip games does need to fulfill Portalarium's obligations. It's normally used as a means to avoid paying your bills while still continuing the operation.
Not sure what country you're from but in the USA when a company has changed ownership on every level(Fed info) it makes it a lot harder for someone to sue them. I have not read the T & C of SotA but if service was not promised to be continued by the new owner in there if the company changed hands or in the agreement made with the "new company" then they do not have to fulfill their obligations like you said. In this specific case if the whales or anyone decided to sue they would most likely have to sue Garriott as an individual rather than his company and I think he may be banking on his cloak of UO immunity to shield him from that cause who could do that to lord british, right?
What I meant with my SOE comparison is that they, just like WB and now Portalarium did what they did possibly to evade the legal troubles that could come if all of those companies ended their game services abruptly.
Oh I agree about Portalarium. I think - looking at the phrasing - that @Vrika may have missed a "not" out: as in "does not need to fulfill Portalarium's obligations"
You're just noticing the trend? This is what him and McQuaid do. They'll do it again and you'll give them money again. All because they did something 20 years ago.
Isn't this the same thing SOE did with Daybreak and Warner Brothers with Lotro to prevent lawsuits. Pass game off to "former" employees in a "new" company that worked for previous company. Making it seem like the company changed hands when really it's just legal hocus pocus so no one can sue em'.
No. Sony sold SOE as a complete company, and SOE still exists even if under different name. If someone wanted to sue them, they could.
This is much more alarming because Portalarium transferred all their assets. An asset transfer like this leads to a situation where Catnip games does need to fulfill Portalarium's obligations. It's normally used as a means to avoid paying your bills while still continuing the operation.
Not sure what country you're from but in the USA when a company has changed ownership on every level(Fed info) it makes it a lot harder for someone to sue them. I have not read the T & C of SotA but if service was not promised to be continued by the new owner in there if the company changed hands or in the agreement made with the "new company" then they do not have to fulfill their obligations like you said. In this specific case if the whales or anyone decided to sue they would most likely have to sue Garriott as an individual rather than his company and I think he may be banking on his cloak of UO immunity to shield him from that cause who could do that to lord british, right?
What I meant with my SOE comparison is that they, just like WB and now Portalarium did what they did possibly to evade the legal troubles that could come if all of those companies ended their game services abruptly.
Oh I agree about Portalarium. I think - looking at the phrasing - that @Vrika may have missed a "not" out: as in "does not need to fulfill Portalarium's obligations"
I had predicted that (to no one's surprise), SotA would be the next MMO to shut down. Looks like I may be about to be proven right sooner than expected.
Shut down? Can anyone really say it even Started yet?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
More like "this is why people should be wary of these shady as hell Kickstarters".
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
You're just noticing the trend? This is what him and McQuaid do. They're do it again and you'll give them money again. All because they did something 20 years ago.
Apples and oranges.
Pantheon is mainly funded by Mcquaid and some investors that he managed to involve. The amount of crowdfounded money is minimal. No Kickstarter and the founders pack are reasonably priced and do not give any ingame advantage (no Castles, Titles or overpowered items).
Pantheon is the game that least rely on crowdfounded money.
You're just noticing the trend? This is what him and McQuaid do. They're do it again and you'll give them money again. All because they did something 20 years ago.
Apples and oranges.
Pantheon is mainly funded by Mcquaid and some investors that he managed to involve. The amount of crowdfounded money is minimal. No Kickstarter and the founders pack are reasonably priced and do not give any ingame advantage (no Castles, Titles or overpowered items).
Pantheon is the game that least rely on crowdfounded money.
There is no Kickstarter because that one failed. I agree with the general sentiment though.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
More like "this is why people should be wary of these shady as hell Kickstarters".
Makes one wish for the “good ole days” when large studios created crappy games and sold them to us for a one and done $59.99 price. Sure, they might have sucked sometimes but at least no one was out any great sum of money.
Now they suck, and milk the customer (sometimes for phenomenal amounts of money) from inception throughout their entire lifecycle, I expect one day we’ll get a “game closure” fee or some such nonsense.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You're just noticing the trend? This is what him and McQuaid do. They're do it again and you'll give them money again. All because they did something 20 years ago.
Apples and oranges.
Pantheon is mainly funded by Mcquaid and some investors that he managed to involve. The amount of crowdfounded money is minimal. No Kickstarter and the founders pack are reasonably priced and do not give any ingame advantage (no Castles, Titles or overpowered items).
Pantheon is the game that least rely on crowdfounded money.
There is no Kickstarter because that one failed. I agree with the general sentiment though.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Yet people keep thinking Pantheon relies on crowdfounding, just like the poster I quoted.
If Pantheon doesn’t deliver, the ones that will lose the most are Mcquaid and its investors.
In my view Mcquaid is the one that really wants to prove people wrong as he has to recover from Vanguard debacle. That’s why I think he will deliver (though I am not sure when). This is his only chance of redemption, as he already used his bonus card, and he knows that.
You're just noticing the trend? This is what him and McQuaid do. They're do it again and you'll give them money again. All because they did something 20 years ago.
Apples and oranges.
Pantheon is mainly funded by Mcquaid and some investors that he managed to involve. The amount of crowdfounded money is minimal. No Kickstarter and the founders pack are reasonably priced and do not give any ingame advantage (no Castles, Titles or overpowered items).
Pantheon is the game that least rely on crowdfounded money.
Well Brad TRIED to fund Pantheon via Kickstarter... but failed.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Comments
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Considering how the developers stated original UO was dying until they changed lots of things long after RG jumped ship... well, that explains SOTA I guess. Hope y'all got what you paid for!
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
Removal of titles especially his, moving back to NY, actually attending meetings using a robot to represent him, no corporate tax filings in 2019, making Chris President and now this.
Just watch, after the inevitible bankrupcy and game closure Chris will show up in the future working for Richard or one of his friends as a reward for riding this disaster off the cliff.
Richard will walk away scot free while the investors, backers and taxman (meaning all of us) get left holding the bag.
No matter what else Richard always knew how to hire good lawyers, ask NCSoft about that.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The whales that pumped tens of thousands into the game may get together and file a lawsuit if the game were to be shut down or things they were promised not delivered.
As long as he never shows anyone the actual game they'll keep tossing him money hoping against hope he's building the game of their dreams.
If he ever pulls back the covers I'm pretty sure COE will follow a similar fate as SotA but that is likely to take many more years.
I think we'll see some other Crowd funded MMORPGs fail before then.
LoA, LiF and a few others are beginning to flail about wildly in an attempt to stay open.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
RG was always an airy-headed idea guy.
As an ameliorating factor, RG had different ideas for this game early on, but investors and fans only wanted retread Ultima. So, back to the rut it went. Seems like it just dug in deeper and deeper.....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Shut down? Can anyone really say it even Started yet?
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Pantheon is mainly funded by Mcquaid and some investors that he managed to involve.
The amount of crowdfounded money is minimal.
No Kickstarter and the founders pack are reasonably priced and do not give any ingame advantage (no Castles, Titles or overpowered items).
Pantheon is the game that least rely on crowdfounded money.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Now they suck, and milk the customer (sometimes for phenomenal amounts of money) from inception throughout their entire lifecycle, I expect one day we’ll get a “game closure” fee or some such nonsense.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If Pantheon doesn’t deliver, the ones that will lose the most are Mcquaid and its investors.
In my view Mcquaid is the one that really wants to prove people wrong as he has to recover from Vanguard debacle.
That’s why I think he will deliver (though I am not sure when).
This is his only chance of redemption, as he already used his bonus card, and he knows that.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018