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OPINION: The Tone Deaf Hypocrisy of Blizzard and 'Keep Politics Out'

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,760
    Scot said:
    "To that end, “keep politics out of X,” is a complete non-argument. We are surrounded by politics. Politics are baked into everything we do because politics inform everything we do. It is literally impossible to keep politics out of anything. “Keep politics out of X,” is a completely stupid argument with no basis in reality."

    Poorna, the reason we can't keep politics out of anything is that people like yourself are so keen to put it in everything. I don't know you personally but I do know that nearly everyone who partakes in some form of journalism feels the peer pressure to comment on political issues. To a lesser extent everyone on social media does as well, twisting our arms to comment on everything.

    You, a staff member have decided to speak out about this issue regardless of the sites own rules because you know you are right. You speak to us from a moral high ground that you think allows you to make up the rules as you go along. Because nothing is more important than the cause, the campaign, the issue. As you might have guessed I dispute you are on the moral high ground. I think you have fallen for the fallacy that so many fall for today, that any behaviour is permissible as long as a cause is involved.

    As to the specific issue, even if I thought Blizzard were totally in the wrong I would still see your piece as inappropriate for this site, this is a gaming site, we discuss games not the latest political drama on Twitter or Reddit. I have done posts myself because I hoped to give some perspective to threads which should have been shunted to off topic under your own rules or more aptly been deleted.

    There is only one way Blizzard could be in the wrong here and that is if they do not normally uphold the policy of no politics on their channel. It seems they do as I keep asking for examples of them not doing so and see no evidence put forward. Therefore they have nothing to answer for.

    There is nothing wrong with your passion and the forthright statement of your position, but surely Twitter and so on are enough for you? Must every venue for discussion, every meeting place be the soap box for our political opinions? It is the current generation that decided they must vomit every thought, every emotion they have over everyone else. Do not be surprised that some of use don't want to hear it. Aside from this your articles have been very welcome, keep them coming.
    It wasn't Poorna that brought politics into our gaming discussion. Bury your head in the sand all you want, but it is our governments and big corporations who have shoved that down our throats. Status quo people who just want their Opium Den entertainment want to plug their ears and want everyone else to as well.

    If our petty rules meant to keep assholes in check get in the way of civil discussions about how our industry is affecting liberties and freedoms then we need to reassess how we set our boundaries. Completely turning a blind eye and pretending we're immune when the world is burning around us is foolish.

    It's not like anyone is forcing you to participate in these discussions either. If you don't like them you have the option to perform a British exit with no embarrassing repercussions. None of us have to discuss these things. We do so because it is a significant event that impacts us all, not because it's "fun".
    klash2defvandal5627Iselin
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • XarkoXarko Member EpicPosts: 1,144
    I miss Bill and Suzie.
    ScotIceAgeMendelAmatheArteriusSlapshot1188osteolyticCelciusAlbatroesOG_Zorvanand 1 other.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,549
    edited October 9
    IceAge said:
    To that end, “keep politics out of X,” is a complete non-argument. We are surrounded by politics. Politics are baked into everything we do because politics inform everything we do. It is literally impossible to keep politics out of anything. “Keep politics out of X,” is a completely stupid argument with no basis in reality.

    Yet here I am, with a 20 years of ..experience by playing online games, from which very, very rarely I was in a situation to discuss politics/religion/etc. with other players. Arguing that we no longer can stay away from politics in our ENTERTAINMENT category, shows how wrong you are. 

    We can definitely keep politics out of games, the same way sport ( almost any of them ), keep politics/religion/etc out of their 'fields'. Companies all over the world who respect them self, are having a similar approach with their employees, yet somehow.. we can no longer do that?!

    Next time when you break the rules from a contract, for X reasons, be it "freedom of speech", politics, or you don't like Y face within the company, come back here, and tell us how that goes, ok? Wait, you never did that, but you are here telling us how someone breaking the rules IS fine, as long as.."freedom of speech", am I right? You don't have freedom of speech when you are bound to a contract where clearly says "don't sht on our image by calling out (groups of) other people". 

    You sign the contract, you respect the contract. You want it to "break" it by supporting your case? Is fine, do it. Do I support your cause? Yes ( regarding the Hong Kong guy ) , but support the consequences of your actions. Everything you do in life ( at least this big ) have consequences. Live with them if you want your voice and your cause to be heard.



    I disagree.

    Let's start with the games you have played for 20 years, you are telling everyone here that those games had 0 politics baked into it, about real-world counterparts? Doubt it.  

    I have no idea why you believe sports are keeping "Politics" out of that field. I'm not sure how much "Sports" you watch but I'm a lifetime NFL/NBA fan. What you are saying here, It's just not true. Owners of the teams may want to avoid it, but in American Sports where 80% of the teams are African American, politics are baked into the sport. Not because of the owners, but the players. The players are people with ideas. They aren't just "Entertainment" as you put it. Mix that with Social Media allowing them to express themselves and you get what's happening now. Hell, even that isn't new, go back to the civil rights era, Athletes were using their platforms to spread their ideas about what was going on at the time. Today, Everything is okay until the owners start trying to silence the politics they don't agree with. IE: NFL/Kapernick. Only then is it "Stick to sports". Lebron James has a whole brand called "Bigger than Basketball" all because a news reporter told him to stick to dribbling. That's one example. 

    Companies all over the world are doing the opposite of what you are saying here. They are becoming more inclusive of different types of people from all religions, cultures, sexual orientations, etc. The world is changing and it's changing fast. I have no idea why you think the gaming industry who is usually at the forefront of technology would not also embrace this idea.

    The only people in the modern world that seems to want things to be "how they used to be" are the boomers who frequent this website. 

    Blizzard did something many find morally wrong. It should be discussed. 
    TorvalJeroKanevandal5627Iselinsakerosteolyticmmolou
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member RarePosts: 6,255
    edited October 9


    And would you take the same stance if the political view that was broadcast on the gaming platform was not one of your liking? Are you the final arbiter in which political view is appropriate to espouse and which is not, if not then who? I'd love to see you in the veritable quicksand of trying to figure out which political opinions to allow on your platform and which to censor. The only answer is to disallow ALL political discourse on your platform, which is what Blizzard does in the contract these guys signed before doing this broadcast and which predates any "China pandering" conspiracy theories.



    Blizzard specializes in video games about orcs and elves, they are not responsible for picking and choosing political sides or for giving you a soapbox on their platform to do so yourself.



    Because Blizzard has ignored it in the past and at most just gave infractions or warnings! Since it didn't hurt their bottom line.
    They could have done the same thing now and give him a warning or infraction!

    But instead, this guy received an instant Ban, because they are afraid of the Chinese Government locking them out of the Chinese Market as "petty" retaliation! Like how they threatened the NBA to take away broadcasting rights last week with that scandal!

    Blizzard, just like any other corporation, doesn't give a flying hoot about Politics! As long as it doesn't threaten their bottom line!

    Like the poster said above! I completely agree! This isn't even Politics, this is a Human Rights issue!  These protesters fight for their freedom and fear the Chinese Government taking control of Hong Kong and take all their hard fought rights away and enslave them into the Chinese Regime!
    klash2defsaker
  • UntamedgunnerUntamedgunner Member UncommonPosts: 23
    edited October 9
    Communist Regime China, I agree with you on that, funny though? President Trump been telling the American people the China Is our enemy as far as the economic wars go stealing our intellectual property taxing the heck out of our goods going in China Nobody cared or said a word in fact if they said anything they said he was wrong and China is great. A video gamer makes an Innocent comment about freedom in Hong Kong, and against China. Everyone is up in arms everyone is now saying things and going crazy. . That’s funny the fact that they stole intellectual property no big deal the fact that they tax all are goods to going in no big deal the fact that they built The military with our money and I trying to destroy America financially no big deal. Goes to show you how many uneducated voters are in the America. Maybe now they’ll see the true colors of China and see what they’re really about and maybe now they won’t complain about spending $15 for a pair of jeans at Walmart instead of 12
    Warhawke80
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,156
    edited October 9
    Now i would assume that the pro in question was very well aware of how this would go down. Making it a fair bit noble... At least i hope that... Because the other choice is that the person in question did not read the deal that was signed. Because this sort of stunt never lands well with companies, they want and need control. They "go to war" on their own terms, because that is what makes money, and being cut off from the Chinese market... That is a big put on the table.

    I agree this is very two-faced but it is also a VERY hot topic that can stand to lose not only Blizzard but Activision and by that extent any other owner/investor A LOT of money. Anyone with a shred of sense could have told the pro in question that this was what would go down.

    So as i said i choose to see this as a deliberate act of ideals over economy. Taking advantage of a platform to put forth a message and then somewhat gracefully accept the outcome. Would not be the first time someone did that. There is a delicate irony to ask if one regime should be able to pressure another... It does of course happen on a weekly basis

    klash2defXarko

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,746
    Wait wait wait... I clearly missed MikeB and Suzie leaving... what the heck happened?
    mmolou
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    When I had a signature that said something to the degree of;

    "If there's a game with a female lead, ethnic diversity, LGBTQ, children, slavery or whatever it's going to turn into a political conversation"

    I created it after MMORPG.com let a nasty thread go on for a few days, where the typical majority tone was clear. They then closed the thread and I'm sure the more 1960's behaving members caught the ban hammer.

    A moderator went in, deleted my signature, and hit me with the mild warning sticker. That's why this animated gif that annoys a lot of you ain't going anywhere.

    Now the same platform randomly desires to lighten it's stance on the heels of this topic? WTF? Did you all JUST think of that? Why wasn't there a forum wide sticky announcement of official forum rule change before today? Something like:

    "We are changing our official forum rules on political conversations... here are the official rules. Political conversations will be closely moderated due to their sensitivity, blah blah blah"

    You guys switched up because it was convenient. I'm sorry but MMORPG.com doesn't have the professionalism or due diligence to manage these types of conversations, let alone START them.

    Stick to locking threads up when it gets hot/letting them go haywire over the weekends (because weekends). 
    mmolou
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • pantaropantaro Member RarePosts: 506
    klash2def said:
    It's amazing how immature some of you people are here. It's not that you don't like "politics" it's that you don't agree with the politics of the article. The quick reaction to mention forum rules is a way to "Silence" politics you don't agree with and again, that's childish. A lot of you are in your 50s an 60s and act like you are 19. I don't understand the knee jerk reaction towards this article.. first off this is BLIZZARD..secondly, what OP wrote is actually true. The "argument" to keep politics out of x is bs.. Politics, Ethics and Morals are baked into every part of the gaming industry. Furthermore do you know what Politics are? Human Rights are not "Political" in the sense many here are using the term. This whole thing is about Human Rights.

    Stop tucking your head under the sheets because its something you don't agree with. You can choose not to participate if you so please but don't try to silence those that do wish to participate in a conversation. smh.. a lot of you cant wait to prove what side of the fence you are on.

    I find it funny that you all have no issue talking about the politics and ethics of a game like Star Citizen but the moment you see something you don't agree with, suddenly its "your opening Pandora box" or "Read the forum Rules"

    Blizzard is a giant in the gaming world, so for them to do something like this is world news. Every outlet in gaming is going to discuss it. I find it very amusing that the same people who use terms like "SJW" or "Snowflake" as weapons against people who want equality and their own spaces, are also the same people who for YEARS have been trying to turn this place into their own little safe place. The fact that someone in this thread said "Games are the only place I don't see politics" is amazingly hilarious. Even Pacman had political undertones. There isn't a MMORPG or RPG game without politics that mirror the world. It's called art. That's what its supposed to do.




    thank you for saying what i was thinking way better then i ever was gonna say it! lol
    Torvalklash2def
  • SamhaelSamhael Member RarePosts: 1,244




    Xiaoki said:


    Oh, the irony





    MMORPG.com Rules of Conduct





    Minor Infraction





    Religion and Politics





    MMORPG.com is a site to discuss massively multiplayer online roleplay gaming. While users are encouraged and permitted to use our Off-Topic forum to discuss real life and non-MMORPG gaming, threads concerning sensitive subjects such as religion, politics, or ethics are forbidden.


    Read more at https://://www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm






    Because virtually every other article on here has absolutely zero comments regarding religion, politics, or ethics in the slightest? Interesting. Interesting indeed. These topics are no doubt tricky to handle, but when situations like Blizzard’s suspension arise, it’s worth discussing. Like i mention, literally everything is political.



    Be consistent. Or change the rules.
    How are we supposed to know what rules to follow when you can't be bothered?
    AmatheSlapshot1188
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member RarePosts: 6,255
    Samhael said:







    Because virtually every other article on here has absolutely zero comments regarding religion, politics, or ethics in the slightest? Interesting. Interesting indeed. These topics are no doubt tricky to handle, but when situations like Blizzard’s suspension arise, it’s worth discussing. Like i mention, literally everything is political.



    Be consistent. Or change the rules.
    How are we supposed to know what rules to follow when you can't be bothered?
    Seriously?? Are you new to this site or something? Or been living under a rock?

    The comments section has always been full of political comments/discussions for years without heavy handed moderation! As long as you stay civil, don't post racist comments, etc.
  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,622
    I love politics in gaming. i have seen many mature, intelligent conversations about politics in the barens chat. I think with some of those ideas we can solve the worlds problems and make the world great again.
    Xarko
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,076
    klash2def said:
    I disagree.

    Let's start with the games you have played for 20 years, you are telling everyone here that those games had 0 politics baked into it, about real-world counterparts? Doubt it.  

    I have no idea why you believe sports are keeping "Politics" out of that field. I'm not sure how much "Sports" you watch but I'm a lifetime NFL/NBA fan. What you are saying here, It's just not true. Owners of the teams may want to avoid it, but in American Sports where 80% of the teams are African American, politics are baked into the sport. Not because of the owners, but the players. The players are people with ideas. They aren't just "Entertainment" as you put it. Mix that with Social Media allowing them to express themselves and you get what's happening now. Hell, even that isn't new, go back to the civil rights era, Athletes were using their platforms to spread their ideas about what was going on at the time. Today, Everything is okay until the owners start trying to silence the politics they don't agree with. IE: NFL/Kapernick. Only then is it "Stick to sports". Lebron James has a whole brand called "Bigger than Basketball" all because a news reporter told him to stick to dribbling. That's one example. 

    Companies all over the world are doing the opposite of what you are saying here. They are becoming more inclusive of different types of people from all religions, cultures, sexual orientations, etc. The world is changing and it's changing fast. I have no idea why you think the gaming industry who is usually at the forefront of technology would not also embrace this idea.

    The only people in the modern world that seems to want things to be "how they used to be" are the boomers who frequent this website. 

    Blizzard did something many find morally wrong. It should be discussed. 
    Well of course there are a lot of instances of something political in games.  That's fine when they can turn it into an interesting game mechanic.  For example, both religion and politics play major roles in the Europa Universalis games, but as a controlled part of the game.  Importantly, they don't touch the hot political issues of today, but instead, only much older controversies where the passions have long since cooled.

    When games are mostly apolitical, but sneak in a few snide potshots at some particular political figure or ideology, it nearly always detracts from the game.  Good game developers (and most bad ones) try to avoid doing this.

    As for athletes pushing political views, it depends tremendously on the venue.  An athlete who waves around a sign on the sidelines during televised games advocating something or other about abortion ought to be and likely would be sanctioned for it, regardless of which side he takes politically.  For the same athlete to openly advocate for whatever political views he likes on his own time (e.g., on social media) is completely fine.  Let the games be about games and not politics, and let the athletes live their lives as they please outside of their time on the job.

    You are correct that it has become increasingly common for corporations to weigh in on hot-button political issues.  But that is a bad thing, not a good thing.  Advocating this or that political view and demonizing those who disagree is not inclusive as you say, but quite the opposite of it, as it seeks to insult, ostracize, and chase people away.
    Slapshot1188mmolou
  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,290
    Xarko said:
    I miss Bill and Suzie.
    Pretty much this :)
    Amathe

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,076
    The problem with what Blizzard did is not a problem with enforcing a "no politics" rule.  Blizzard had no such rule to enforce.  That's why they didn't cite such a rule in the ban, but had to instead cite some catchall that they could ban people for any reason or no reason at all.  They made it up as they went, and if you're going to do that, then siding with an evil dictator and against democracy really isn't a good way to do it.
    OG_Zorvan
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,054
    Torval said:
    Scot said:
    "To that end, “keep politics out of X,” is a complete non-argument. We are surrounded by politics. Politics are baked into everything we do because politics inform everything we do. It is literally impossible to keep politics out of anything. “Keep politics out of X,” is a completely stupid argument with no basis in reality."

    Poorna, the reason we can't keep politics out of anything is that people like yourself are so keen to put it in everything. I don't know you personally but I do know that nearly everyone who partakes in some form of journalism feels the peer pressure to comment on political issues. To a lesser extent everyone on social media does as well, twisting our arms to comment on everything.

    You, a staff member have decided to speak out about this issue regardless of the sites own rules because you know you are right. You speak to us from a moral high ground that you think allows you to make up the rules as you go along. Because nothing is more important than the cause, the campaign, the issue. As you might have guessed I dispute you are on the moral high ground. I think you have fallen for the fallacy that so many fall for today, that any behaviour is permissible as long as a cause is involved.

    As to the specific issue, even if I thought Blizzard were totally in the wrong I would still see your piece as inappropriate for this site, this is a gaming site, we discuss games not the latest political drama on Twitter or Reddit. I have done posts myself because I hoped to give some perspective to threads which should have been shunted to off topic under your own rules or more aptly been deleted.

    There is only one way Blizzard could be in the wrong here and that is if they do not normally uphold the policy of no politics on their channel. It seems they do as I keep asking for examples of them not doing so and see no evidence put forward. Therefore they have nothing to answer for.

    There is nothing wrong with your passion and the forthright statement of your position, but surely Twitter and so on are enough for you? Must every venue for discussion, every meeting place be the soap box for our political opinions? It is the current generation that decided they must vomit every thought, every emotion they have over everyone else. Do not be surprised that some of use don't want to hear it. Aside from this your articles have been very welcome, keep them coming.
    It wasn't Poorna that brought politics into our gaming discussion. Bury your head in the sand all you want, but it is our governments and big corporations who have shoved that down our throats. Status quo people who just want their Opium Den entertainment want to plug their ears and want everyone else to as well.

    If our petty rules meant to keep assholes in check get in the way of civil discussions about how our industry is affecting liberties and freedoms then we need to reassess how we set our boundaries. Completely turning a blind eye and pretending we're immune when the world is burning around us is foolish.

    It's not like anyone is forcing you to participate in these discussions either. If you don't like them you have the option to perform a British exit with no embarrassing repercussions. None of us have to discuss these things. We do so because it is a significant event that impacts us all, not because it's "fun".
    Ahh I wondered if you would take me up on this, it is your sort of thing. As much as we agree elsewhere I was surprised you had not got a post in on the first page.

    I see you have not answered my question, does Blizzard always uphold this policy? If it does what do they have to answer for here?

    But let us distance ourselves from the all important "issue" the cause we must seemingly all agree on or be somehow foolish in your eyes. Looking at the wider picture we see the world in very different ways, you are one of those people who are so keen to put politics into everything so your support for Poorma is understandable. I, on the other hand see people like yourself as the reason why politics is being injected into everything, you just can't help yourself.

    I should say, when it comes to China and Hong Kong I agree with you, but do we need to talk about it here? Is the drug of stating your political opinion so vital to your being that you cannot wait until you are back on Twitter or the like? Also, to describe this situation as "the world burning around us", do we really need such souped-up rhetoric? I commonly see such emotional language used to label every issue, all are as ultra important as every other one I will have to hear about this week. Shout from the tops of the hills, the mountains! Hopefully you can see why I don't think you are in a good place for a considered opinion on this issue.

    I am reminded here of why we keept politics and religion out of very guild I have ever been in, it only causes dissent and people using words like "assholes" before you can say boo. Can you not see how knee jerk your reaction is to all this?

    One thing I won't accuse you of is how being champions of such causes is for many a road to celebrity status. The number of fashion models "championing" some sort of cause springs to mind, get on the bandwagon now. But maybe you can see how that makes me wary of accepting anything that social media thinks is an important issue with a big pinch of salt.

    I am turning a blind eye to nothing, I have been discussing this on a political forum I belong to for example. As you may have guessed I eschew social media, as vomiting ones options and emotions on everyone seems the only reason that platform exists.

    Finally I can't leave this discussion to people such as yourself, that's how we have become so inappropriately politicised. We need to push back against those who want to bring their vaunted political ideals to every venue.
    AmatheMendelcalibekTykam123IceAgevandal5627KaladonnalkarionlogosteolyticQuarterStackand 4 others.

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