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Dungeon video walk through, not very wow.

KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,754
edited September 2019 in Chronicles of Elyria
So Snipehunter is getting a bit bolder, this weeks "Shiny" post is a fairly long  video  walk though with commentary of a testing dungeon.

His forum post is all coy and very much "wink, wink, nod, nod" as if he's doing something he shouldn't by recording and sharing this video.

I'm sure Caspian was fully aware and approved of its creation as he's seen how giving the backers even the smallest bone gets them to open their wallets even wider as they gush all over the forums about the great "progress" being made. 

For most not living in the Ivory Tower I expect will be far less impressed.

Just my opinion,  but if this and the torch swimming video are the best they have to demo their progress, they are a long way off from letting anyone formally test this game. (Except to satisfy morbid curiosity)

 :D 

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/33640/shiny-day-perfect-time-to-walk-in-the-dark

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Post edited by Kyleran on
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Comments

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,351
    edited September 2019

    "Pre-Alpha Walk-Though" from Oct 2017:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_ZG22ckzB0&feature=youtu.be

    Dungeon walk-through literally 2 years later:
    https://cdn.chroniclesofelyria.com/screenshots/shiny/chronicles-of-elyria-prealpha-dungeon-walk-01.mp4

    Love listening to him talk about how great VoxElyria was because it allowed them to define gameplay mechanics and "get it into the hands of the players very quickly".   Hmm... 2 years later... no mechanics at all have been put in the hands of the players.  Perhaps we have a different understanding of the term "very quickly".


    As I always say, their own words are their greatest detractors.  IMHO that 12 minute clip demonstrated just how bad this is going. The only thing that I thought was in any way a positive from that was the music.  Other than that, the whole walkthrough just showed a horribly basic, tiny dungeon where he used a key that was floating in the air, talked to a "magic door" right out of Bards Tale 1, and got stuck on an anvil that apparently was supposed to be slid around onto a pressure plate.   Aside from the absurdity of a random anvil popping up, the idea that you would just push one around a room with no effort is laughable.

    Slapshot's rating:

    Music - 8
    Dungeon mechanics demoed - 2
    Dungeon design - 1

    Overall - 3/10
    *Yes this accounts for "pre-alpha" state

    Asm0deus[Deleted User]

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  • GeekyGeeky Member UncommonPosts: 420
    If it looks like that just for testing.  Ok.  If thats the graphics direction they are aiming for...bleh...
  • DafAtRandomDafAtRandom Member UncommonPosts: 124
    Please ya'll let me know when the game finally hits the app store will you ?
    XarkoF2Plague
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,115
    Geeky said:
    If it looks like that just for testing.  Ok.  If thats the graphics direction they are aiming for...bleh...
    Runescape wants their graphic designer back.
    KyleranYukmarc
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 554
    It popped up on my discord last night, I saw it, watched 5 mins, turned my pc off and then watched something funny. Maybe to clear my mind...
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    That video is not working but i watched a farming one.
    I got to thinking,i can farm in Atlas ,exactly like they are saying it and that game imo only took a year to make because of it's automated land generator and imo porting over a lot of the same models assets from Ark and just changing the skins.

    Anyhow aside from content such as what people are  typically used to in a game like Wow,i can do anything and MORE than Wow in Atlas and again,that game took no time to make.

    I do not think this game will be full of npc content,the typical ? over the npc head and then running around doing 20000 of those to get xp.I am pretty sure this will be more like a survival game but with the small town idea and politics and well a lot of code that works behind the scene so i call those systems.

    Animators are good at their job,they can work fast in producing animated models,literally days and with it being so easy to generate a world ,seeing them want to show us a "dungeon" is sort of very ho hum,anyone can make a dungeon in a very short time,a few days.I would be very skeptical that this game has got anywhere and will be a very long time and why idk,i assume they just don't have the size of team needed to make enough assets fast enough.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    I get that it's pre-Alpha, but that was pretty unimpressive.
    cheyaneKyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,252
    Two things popped off the screen immediately.  A - The character was too short or the ceiling/doors were too tall.  The character didn't come halfway up the archway when they went through.   B - Super reflective grout in the floors.  It seems to be a horrible choice for material in any floor, much less some place presumably dank and dark.  Maybe that dungeon has a highly paid custodial service.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • moshramoshra Member RarePosts: 400
    Mendel said:
    Two things popped off the screen immediately.  A - The character was too short or the ceiling/doors were too tall.  The character didn't come halfway up the archway when they went through.   B - Super reflective grout in the floors.  It seems to be a horrible choice for material in any floor, much less some place presumably dank and dark.  Maybe that dungeon has a highly paid custodial service.



    He addressed both of those complaints in the video.  However, the rest of the video was pretty terrible for how long this game has been in development.
    Sovrath
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,252
    moshra said:
    Mendel said:
    Two things popped off the screen immediately.  A - The character was too short or the ceiling/doors were too tall.  The character didn't come halfway up the archway when they went through.   B - Super reflective grout in the floors.  It seems to be a horrible choice for material in any floor, much less some place presumably dank and dark.  Maybe that dungeon has a highly paid custodial service.



    He addressed both of those complaints in the video.  However, the rest of the video was pretty terrible for how long this game has been in development.
    It's not that he didn't address these (didn't have sound on), it is that someone at SBS made these decisions.  Correcting the ceiling/doorway height could be a decision that would require even more things to be abandoned.  Scrapping work wouldn't be new with this group, but it doesn't seem conducive to getting a game to a playable state where it could be pushed out the door.  If all they are doing is creating "throw-away" work, when does the actual work begin?



    [Deleted User]

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,351
    Mendel said:
    moshra said:
    Mendel said:
    Two things popped off the screen immediately.  A - The character was too short or the ceiling/doors were too tall.  The character didn't come halfway up the archway when they went through.   B - Super reflective grout in the floors.  It seems to be a horrible choice for material in any floor, much less some place presumably dank and dark.  Maybe that dungeon has a highly paid custodial service.



    He addressed both of those complaints in the video.  However, the rest of the video was pretty terrible for how long this game has been in development.
    It's not that he didn't address these (didn't have sound on), it is that someone at SBS made these decisions.  Correcting the ceiling/doorway height could be a decision that would require even more things to be abandoned.  Scrapping work wouldn't be new with this group, but it doesn't seem conducive to getting a game to a playable state where it could be pushed out the door.  If all they are doing is creating "throw-away" work, when does the actual work begin?


    When the free money train slows to a crawl.

    KyleranMendel

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,351
    moshra said:
    Mendel said:
    Two things popped off the screen immediately.  A - The character was too short or the ceiling/doors were too tall.  The character didn't come halfway up the archway when they went through.   B - Super reflective grout in the floors.  It seems to be a horrible choice for material in any floor, much less some place presumably dank and dark.  Maybe that dungeon has a highly paid custodial service.



    He addressed both of those complaints in the video.  However, the rest of the video was pretty terrible for how long this game has been in development.
    Actually I believe he said the were using the wrong size door because they came from the town and they hadn’t made doors for the dungeon yet.  He did say that the dungeons had a different scale from what I recall, and I guess the question would be WHY?   


    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,754
    moshra said:
    Mendel said:
    Two things popped off the screen immediately.  A - The character was too short or the ceiling/doors were too tall.  The character didn't come halfway up the archway when they went through.   B - Super reflective grout in the floors.  It seems to be a horrible choice for material in any floor, much less some place presumably dank and dark.  Maybe that dungeon has a highly paid custodial service.



    He addressed both of those complaints in the video.  However, the rest of the video was pretty terrible for how long this game has been in development.
    Actually I believe he said the were using the wrong size door because they came from the town and they hadn’t made doors for the dungeon yet.  He did say that the dungeons had a different scale from what I recall, and I guess the question would be WHY?   


    Shh, don't question "the Master's" design decisions, lowly armchair devs could never comprehend the "sheer brillance" of the grand design.

     :D 
    Mendel

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,349
    You guys that follow this thing... is there an official explanation as to why everything looks so much shittier now than 2 years ago?


    Amathe
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  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,852
    edited September 2019
    I seriously felt like I was watching a play through of the Oblivion tutorial.

    (Oblivion doesn't look that great)

    So, I hope it plays better than it looks. But hey, At least there is SOMETHING on the table now.
  • GeekyGeeky Member UncommonPosts: 420
    Iselin said:
    You guys that follow this thing... is there an official explanation as to why everything looks so much shittier now than 2 years ago?


    I'm pretty sure they are developing the game to be "play tested" in something other than the final engine resolution.  This could be that play testing engine they are planning to use.  
    AnOldFartKalafax
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,523
    edited September 2019
    It's not like they are going to come out and say they are incompetent and can't make a game for shit but all you have to do is watch the videos Slapshot linked.
    Slapshot1188

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  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,675
    Geeky said:
    Iselin said:
    You guys that follow this thing... is there an official explanation as to why everything looks so much shittier now than 2 years ago?


    I'm pretty sure they are developing the game to be "play tested" in something other than the final engine resolution.  This could be that play testing engine they are planning to use.  
    2 years after they had a better looking build and now they've finally found a play testing engine they are planning to use.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,815
    This is their version for the Ipod Nano, right?

    (I can’t stop making crappy jokes about the game, I need help).

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    KyleranAmathe
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    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



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    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • frostymugfrostymug Member RarePosts: 645
    I'll be more interested when they get Pyro or Heavy reskins in game. Scout is kinda boring.

    Slightly better than my expectations.

    My expectations are laughably low.

     
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,754
    edited September 2019
    Iselin said:
    You guys that follow this thing... is there an official explanation as to why everything looks so much shittier now than 2 years ago?


    Not sure they're issued an official explanation, but here's what I've observed.

    Back in 2016 during the KSer, they claimed to have a playable demo first shown at PAX East.

    They did of sorts using Unreal 4 which was what they used for those early and much better looking demos you can still see linked on the KSer page.

    They also announced a pairing up with SpacialOS to "speed" the development process along.

    They continued down this initial path until Jan 2018 when they announced they were breaking off with SpacialOS for "reasons."

    They also laid off a third of the staff (my theory is most of the Unreal 4 capable graphic artists) which stood around 30 at that time.

    Reasons given was SBS was going to need time to further develop their Soulbound Engine to replace the capabilities SpacialOS was to provide. 

    From this point forward they seem to have shelved using Unreal 4, there no longer is any mention of it on their web site.

    They've also stated they can no longer provide those early playable demos as the "technology" to support them is no longer in use, further supporting the idea they've abandoned using Unreal 4.

    Finally, you've seen the results, any video clips or screenshots since 2018 have been with  these low quality placeholder graphics instead anything resembling their earlier demos.

    Snipehunter said in a Shiny post earlier this year they were developing all of the core play systems using "stock" artwork, replacing this with slightly upgraded versions which they ask their artists to make only when necessary to test the gameplay.

    After all of the game systems are in place they plan to "quickly" replace all of the placeholder graphics with the final versions using some "elven magic" process which I've been told is beyond my simple armchair developer level of understanding. 

    @Slapshot1188 and @AnOldFart can probably also chime in where I've gotten some of my facts or timelines wrong, this game has switched gears so often it's hard to keep up.

    One very eye opening experience is I went back and read the Kickstarter campaign this morning and it is amazing how little of what existed or was promised back in 2016 is still true today.

    Most everything said seemingly has been tossed out the window and today's version is something very different than promised. 









    Post edited by Kyleran on
    AnOldFarttweedledumb99TorrskHashbrick

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

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    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 554
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    You guys that follow this thing... is there an official explanation as to why everything looks so much shittier now than 2 years ago?


    Not sure they're issued an official explanation, but here's what I've observed.

    Back in 2016 during the KSer, they claimed to have a playable demo first shown at PAX East.

    They did of sorts using Unreal 4 which was what they used for those early and much better looking demos you can still see linked on the KSer page.

    They also announced a pairing up with SpacialOS to "speed" the development process along.

    They continued down this initial path until Jan 2018 when they announced they were breaking off with SpacialOS for "reasons."

    They also laid off a third of the staff (my theory is most of the Unreal 4 capable graphic artists) which stood around 30 at that time.

    Reasons given was SBS was going to need time to further develop their Soulbound Engine to replace the capabilities SpacialOS was to provide. 

    From this point forward they seem to have shelved using Unreal 4, there no longer is any mention of it on their web site.

    They've also stated they can no longer provide those early playable demos as the "technology" to support them is no longer in use, further supporting the idea they've abandoned using Unreal 4.

    Finally, you've seen the results, any video clips or screenshots since 2018 have been with  these low quality placeholder graphics instead anything resembling their earlier demos.

    Snipehunter said in a Shiny post earlier this year they were developing all of the core play systems using "stock" artwork, replacing this with slightly upgraded versions which they ask their artists to make only when necessary to test the gameplay.

    After all of the game systems are in place they plan to "quickly" replace all of the placeholder graphics with the final versions using some "elven magic" process which I've been told is beyond my simple armchair developer level of understanding. 







    This is a damn good point apart from the final bit.
    I would image it's a matter of money so they sacked the majority of the art guys and keep a minimal few. Those few will develop the nicer assets at a slower pace whilst all the design and programming is done.

    Design that we were told was finished due to it being designed by Caspian for the past 10 or 20 years (I lost track)...

    This way they keep development open for longer (and themselves in a job) whilst progress on the game slows down
  • goldboyy45goldboyy45 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    This project has become a running joke, does Caspian have any intentions on giving an update on a early pre-elyria? or a tech demo? No one in their discord even cares about the game it seems, everyone is excited to throw money at this shit stain and think of new stretch goals. Caspian had to lock a 23 page thread about people giving ideas what else sbS can charge for and milk the community. Here is what Caspian writes, now tell me what the Ivory tower sees to continue throwing money down the toilet?

    Hey Everyone!

    Thank you so much for all the great ideas! I'm going to sit down with the designers now and review the ideas that have been submitted thus far.

    We'll take the best of them and weigh them next to the ideas we were already favoring in order to come up with a set of stretch goals that are both excellent for the players and manageable by the team.

    Sincerely,
    Caspian

    P.S. Locking the thread now as we won't get another chance to review this thread and I don't want people spending time on something we may never see. But there's always next year!

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,790
    As long as they get all the other stuff in, the graphics will work.
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • goldboyy45goldboyy45 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    bcbully said:
    As long as they get all the other stuff in, the graphics will work.
    BCbully, please let me know if you bought in during their KS, yes or no? ( i have a follow up thought after you answer)
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