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Ship Rental Prices - Evocati Leak

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  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    edited September 2019
    The thing is Babs, it is not a popularity contest.

    If a game that has cost $300 million so far is only pulling an extra 500 live viewers can you really say it's worth the additional expense?

    I don't know how much Elite has cost to date but lets be extremely generous and say it's $100 million. That's a $200 million difference between the 2 projects and all you've got to show for it is 500 additional live viewers, $400,000 for each additional viewer....
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,979
    edited September 2019
    Well popularity is relevant when you have critics constantly bashing the game saying there's no gameplay or other bullshit like that lol

    Ah yes ofc the old money card...

    Because everyone knows that a games budget will be reflected by it's viewers on twitch lol

    Also again conveniently ignoring that like every ongoing crowdfunded game in development what's available to play is not represented by the all the funding gathered. For ex. the making of Squadron 42 or the many other features being worked right now.

    Star Citizen alpha popularity on twitch is what it is. For a unfinished and sometimes buggy experience with unpolished experience where progression is wiped every 3 months it's quite good.
    Post edited by Babuinix on
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    edited September 2019
    Babuinix said:
    Well popularity is relevant when you have critics constantly bashing the game saying there's no gameplay or other bullshit like that lol
    Perhaps its +500 viewers popularity comes from the fact that people can't look away from a train wreck.... perhaps it is goons inflating the numbers hunting for the latest gag. I'm sure Erillion could fill us in on their super secret techniques.
    Babuinix said:
    Ah yes ofc the old money card...

    Because everyone knows that a games budget will be reflected by it's viewers on twitch lol
    Doesn't change the fact that an additional $200 million for the BDSSE results in just 500 extra viewers....
    Babuinix said:
    Also again conveniently ignoring that like every crowdfundedg in heavy development what's available to play is not represented by the funding gathered. For ex. the making of Squadron 42 or the many other features being worked right now.
    It's been 7 years already...

    Babuinix said:
    Star Citizen alpha popularity on twitch is what it is. For a unfinished and sometimes buggy experience with unpolished experience where progression is wiped every 3 months it's quite good.
    The lies we have to tell ourselves so we can sleep at night....

    It's a pile of shit when weighing the time, cost and manpower against the wealth of missing gameplay, features and content. No two ways about it I'm afraid.

    WalkinGlenn
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,979
    edited September 2019
    Perhaps its +500 viewers popularity comes from the fact that people can't look away from a train wreck.... perhaps it is goons inflating the numbers hunting for the latest gag. I'm sure Erillion could fill us in on their super secret techniques.

    The lies we have to tell ourselves so we can sleep at night....
    Well now that's funny.
    It's a pile of shit when weighing the time, cost and manpower against the wealth of missing gameplay, features and content. No two ways about it I'm afraid.
    Well we get it you despise the game, like I said that was the whole point of the creation of this thread in the first place wasn't it. It wasn't really about discussion and more like another attempt to vent your frustrations. It's ok that you don't like it but understand that for many gamers it's already the best space-sim experience available in the market and that's shown not only by twitch engagement but also it's funding. With all that said, since the game keeps progressing so nicely, I'm sure the best is yet to come and you'll even might find yourself playing it and having fun with us citizens :)
    Erillion
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Babuinix said:
    It's a pile of shit when weighing the time, cost and manpower against the wealth of missing gameplay, features and content. No two ways about it I'm afraid.
    Well we get it you despise the game, like I said that was the whole point of the creation of this thread in the first place wasn't it. It wasn't really about discussion and more like another attempt to vent your frustrations. It's ok that you don't like it but understand that for many gamers it's already the best space-sim experience available in the market and that's shown not only by twitch engagement but also it's funding.
    I don't despise the game, there isn't enough of it for that much emotion :D
    I dislike the difference between what was claimed and what has been delivered. I dislike the little fanboys who want to doll up a pig with lipstick and call it better than AAA games during its alpha etc.

    And you're totally wrong about the intent but if you need to believe that to feel better then you do you. ..

    Babuinix said:
    ...it's already the best space-sim experience available in the market and that's shown not only by twitch engagement but also it's funding.
    One minute you're saying money is irrelevant and now you're using it as a prop... Catering to P2W whales is not a sign of popularity, when the majority of your funding comes from a very small group how does that represent something popular?

    You talk about popularity but don't seem to understand what it is. In 7 years they have 1.5 million paid backers with quite a few of those being duplicate accounts for grey market use, referrals, giveaways etc. By comparion one of your "less" popular games has sold over 3 million copies in that time along with over 1.5 million copies of its expansion.

    Babuinix said:
    With all that said, since the game keeps progressing so nicely, I'm sure the best is yet to come and you'll even might find yourself playing it and having fun with us citizens :)

    I suppose when you are at rock bottom every way is up...
    TillerBabuinix
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,979
    edited September 2019
    All it's good then :) Cya in the verse. *Edit*

    Actually:
    I don't despise the game, there isn't enough of it for that much emotion :D
    I dislike the difference between what was claimed and what has been delivered.
    So.. just like many other games released or in development that didn't live up to the expectation of some players? Seems to have generated enough emotion to warrant a special place in your posting heart though  :D
    I dislike the little fanboys who want to doll up a pig with lipstick and call it better than AAA games during its alpha etc.
    Well but aren't gamers entitled to say they like the games they like to play better than the ones they don't like to play? If a player has more fun playing Star Citizen alpha than for example playing Anthem who disappointed can't he say that it's a better game?



    One minute you're saying money is irrelevant and now you're using it as a prop... Catering to P2W whales is not a sign of popularity, when the majority of your funding comes from a very small group how does that represent something popular?
    I said that gamers don't care about how much money a game costs to make or how much budget is spent on the marketing campaign (see pic above). People will stream what they like to play and people will watch the games they like to watch being played independently of the budget. Entertainment is the content consumed. Not budgets.
    You talk about popularity but don't seem to understand what it is. In 7 years they have 1.5 million paid backers with quite a few of those being duplicate accounts for grey market use, referrals, giveaways etc. By comparion one of your "less" popular games has sold over 3 million copies in that time along with over 1.5 million copies of its expansion.
    Exactly a sign of huge popularity and potential. They have all those paid backers (duplicate accounts you'll find them in any mmorpg, elite has them, eve has them and so on) and generated all those funds though their core audience alone, without having a finished, published and released game to market and sell to the masses.

    Sure elite sold 3 millions copies and lost half it's players when the expansion came, panicked and putted it on Steam with massive discounts along with the 30% cut  devaluing it's company value so much that even CIG is worth more.

    I suppose when you are at rock bottom every way is up...
    Indeed.
    Post edited by Babuinix on
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,286
    edited September 2019
    Babuinix said:
    It's a pile of shit when weighing the time, cost and manpower against the wealth of missing gameplay, features and content. No two ways about it I'm afraid.
    Well we get it you despise the game, like I said that was the whole point of the creation of this thread in the first place wasn't it. It wasn't really about discussion and more like another attempt to vent your frustrations. It's ok that you don't like it but understand that for many gamers it's already the best space-sim experience available in the market and that's shown not only by twitch engagement but also it's funding.
    I don't despise the game, there isn't enough of it for that much emotion :D
    I dislike the difference between what was claimed and what has been delivered. I dislike the little fanboys who want to doll up a pig with lipstick and call it better than AAA games during its alpha etc.

    And you're totally wrong about the intent but if you need to believe that to feel better then you do you. ..

    Babuinix said:
    ...it's already the best space-sim experience available in the market and that's shown not only by twitch engagement but also it's funding.
    One minute you're saying money is irrelevant and now you're using it as a prop... Catering to P2W whales is not a sign of popularity, when the majority of your funding comes from a very small group how does that represent something popular?

    You talk about popularity but don't seem to understand what it is. In 7 years they have 1.5 million paid backers with quite a few of those being duplicate accounts for grey market use, referrals, giveaways etc. By comparion one of your "less" popular games has sold over 3 million copies in that time along with over 1.5 million copies of its expansion.

    Babuinix said:
    With all that said, since the game keeps progressing so nicely, I'm sure the best is yet to come and you'll even might find yourself playing it and having fun with us citizens :)

    I suppose when you are at rock bottom every way is up...
    I agree with everything you stated; this why most of us have an issue with this game. It's like a mockery of all things most of us miss or want in MMOs, yet it's all just fantasy. The failure of this game and the massive project overruns is why no AAA publisher will ever attempt what RSI is about to fail at.

    Once this ship sinks, the idea of it will sit at the bottom of the ocean of fail for hundreds of years and no one will want to attempt to build something similar because no one wants to be that one company that pulled a Star Citizen. This game is just proving why the idea is a big fail. I get what CR is doing; he's buying time till the technology is available to perfect his vision and make it bug free, all while carrot sticking whales to fund it, but what he wants is years away and will never be cheap.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Why are there different prices,i thought this so called honest guy Mr.Roberts said there would be no advantage from one ship to the other?If so why are prices not identical?

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,620
    edited September 2019
    Tiller said:
    The failure of this game and the massive project overruns is why no AAA publisher will ever attempt what RSI is about to fail at. 
    lol, so it's Star Citizen's fault the fact a game like Star Citizen doesn't exist? 

    It's surely not the game publishers looking for safer, quicker and/or cheaper projects, like copy-pasting the same MMO formula for over a decade...


    If Star Citizen does anything is make publishers more interested in a game like it, the large number of bucks the game collected was something nobody expected for what is a space sim.

    Niche genres don't really get large investments for obvious reasons. Something your bias blinds you from even considering.
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,286
    MaxBacon said:
    Tiller said:
    The failure of this game and the massive project overruns is why no AAA publisher will ever attempt what RSI is about to fail at. 
    lol, so it's Star Citizen's fault the fact a game like Star Citizen doesn't exist? 

    It's surely not the game publishers looking for safer, quicker and/or cheaper projects, like copy-pasting the same MMO formula for over a decade...


    If Star Citizen does anything is make publishers more interested in a game like it, the large number of bucks the game collected was something nobody expected for what is a space sim.

    Niche genres don't really get large investments for obvious reasons. Something your bias blinds you from even considering.
    And your game will doubly prove that the genera is a lost cause no mater how much money is thrown at it. So yes SC will set the final precedent for that.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,979
    Tiller said:
    And your game will doubly prove that the genera is a lost cause no mater how much money is thrown at it. So yes SC will set the final precedent for that.
    We've been reading that prophecy of doom for quite some years now. Yet the project keeps going, the game keeps getting more and more updates while generating more and more funding.

    I think it's those same prophecy's of doom that are the lost cause :)
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    MaxBacon said:
    It's surely not the game publishers looking for safer, quicker and/or cheaper projects, like copy-pasting the same MMO formula for over a decade...

    At the same time there's been a lot of really interesting and innovative games brought out under publisher umbrellas, sure there are franchises that are typically reskins of the previous iteration but it's not like other stuff doesn't exist.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,620
    edited September 2019
    MaxBacon said:
    It's surely not the game publishers looking for safer, quicker and/or cheaper projects, like copy-pasting the same MMO formula for over a decade...

    At the same time there's been a lot of really interesting and innovative games brought out under publisher umbrellas, sure there are franchises that are typically reskins of the previous iteration but it's not like other stuff doesn't exist.
    On this genre, most visible titles currently, are still Indie/Crowdfunded. ED, NMS, upcoming DU. The "AAA Publishers", aka the big-budget boys, do mostly ignore the space sim genre and tend to milk the same MMO type of game.


    Maybe it was SWTOR that burned down big investment on a space MMO? I know it was one of the most expensive games ever made but I think it did profit just didn't sustain.
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,286
    Babuinix said:
    Tiller said:
    And your game will doubly prove that the genera is a lost cause no mater how much money is thrown at it. So yes SC will set the final precedent for that.
    We've been reading that prophecy of doom for quite some years now. Yet the project keeps going, the game keeps getting more and more updates while generating more and more funding.

    I think it's those same prophecy's of doom that are the lost cause :)
    Self own if I ever saw one. Of course it keeps going, that is part of the joke of the entire situation. I imagine it could go forever as long as there are people with more money than sense to fund it.

    Will it ever finish is the question we all are asking. I mean it's a circus run by P. T. Barnum himself with nothing but clowns, and folks who prop it up are playing those clowns. It's permanently stuck on the opening act. 





    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,979
    edited September 2019
    Tiller said:
    Self own if I ever saw one. Of course it keeps going, that is part of the joke of the entire situation. I imagine it could go forever as long as there are people with more money than sense to fund it.

    Will it ever finish is the question we all are asking. I mean it's a circus run by P. T. Barnum himself with nothing but clowns, and folks who prop it up are playing those clowns. It's permanently stuck on the opening act.
    Goes both ways doesn't it?

    Since the continuous funding is a reflection of it being done, those who say it can be done and are enjoying it are also laughing at those who say it cant be done :)
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,604
    7 years and 300 million put into it. Is it closer to being finished than just starting? Thats the question. I would say from what I have seen its barely 30% of basics in terms of what an MMO should offer. Of course people will try to cite all the other crap that doesnt have anything to do with playability and try and make it like its more than half done. But it isnt. I would say its less than 15% of a 'fully fleshed out' MMO. I am not sure they even have half they ships in the game that they have jpegs for. Then of course the sand worms, tanks, land, and other shit they have taken money for over the years that arent even being talked about let alone actually being put into the test bed tech demo servers.
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,286
    rodarin said:
    7 years and 300 million put into it. Is it closer to being finished than just starting? Thats the question. I would say from what I have seen its barely 30% of basics in terms of what an MMO should offer. Of course people will try to cite all the other crap that doesnt have anything to do with playability and try and make it like its more than half done. But it isnt. I would say its less than 15% of a 'fully fleshed out' MMO. I am not sure they even have half they ships in the game that they have jpegs for. Then of course the sand worms, tanks, land, and other shit they have taken money for over the years that arent even being talked about let alone actually being put into the test bed tech demo servers.
    I don't think they even have fully fleshed out story or lore other than what CR spouted out during a night of binge drinking at the pub, which is probably a big mess. There is no RPG in it from what I have found. The game is pretty much a soulless ginger at this point. Notice the only thing the fans seem to show are pictures, none ever talk about the amazing story because there isn't one. It just a bunch of nerds lagging and glitching around a small map playing make believe in lifeless universe.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,979
    edited September 2019
    Nothing like some Armchair Developer math to settle the argument :D
    Tiller said:
    I don't think they even have fully fleshed out story or lore
    For someone so opinionated about Star Citizen you don't seem to know very much about it ;)


    Or if you prefer reading: http://citizen-history.com/

    Also the Lore team has their own show where they go about all Lore things:




    Now that's a self own B) 
    Post edited by Babuinix on
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,620
    edited September 2019
    Tiller said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Tiller said:
    The failure of this game and the massive project overruns is why no AAA publisher will ever attempt what RSI is about to fail at. 
    lol, so it's Star Citizen's fault the fact a game like Star Citizen doesn't exist? 

    It's surely not the game publishers looking for safer, quicker and/or cheaper projects, like copy-pasting the same MMO formula for over a decade...


    If Star Citizen does anything is make publishers more interested in a game like it, the large number of bucks the game collected was something nobody expected for what is a space sim.

    Niche genres don't really get large investments for obvious reasons. Something your bias blinds you from even considering.
    And your game will doubly prove that the genera is a lost cause no mater how much money is thrown at it. So yes SC will set the final precedent for that.
    Like I said... Niche genres don't really get large investments for obvious reasons, a game like SC requires is a large-budget, nuf said. Stop trying to blame a game for the current industry reality just because you hate the company and appear emotionally invested in its failure.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Babuinix said:
    All it's good then :) Cya in the verse. *Edit*

    Exactly a sign of huge popularity and potential. They have all those paid backers (duplicate accounts you'll find them in any mmorpg, elite has them, eve has them and so on) and generated all those funds though their core audience alone, without having a finished, published and released game to market and sell to the masses.

    I didn’t realize bank loans and selling part of the company to investors included their core audience
    Tiller
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,604
    MaxBacon said:
    Tiller said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Tiller said:
    The failure of this game and the massive project overruns is why no AAA publisher will ever attempt what RSI is about to fail at. 
    lol, so it's Star Citizen's fault the fact a game like Star Citizen doesn't exist? 

    It's surely not the game publishers looking for safer, quicker and/or cheaper projects, like copy-pasting the same MMO formula for over a decade...


    If Star Citizen does anything is make publishers more interested in a game like it, the large number of bucks the game collected was something nobody expected for what is a space sim.

    Niche genres don't really get large investments for obvious reasons. Something your bias blinds you from even considering.
    And your game will doubly prove that the genera is a lost cause no mater how much money is thrown at it. So yes SC will set the final precedent for that.
    Like I said... Niche genres don't really get large investments for obvious reasons, a game like SC requires is a large-budget, nuf said. Stop trying to blame a game for the current industry reality just because you hate the company and appear emotionally invested in its failure.
    in the beginning he said he could make it for what was it 5 million? He has 60 times that and it isnt much closer to being released than it was then. You can spout all the bullshit you want about how backers and fans voted to have the thing expanded all you want. Point is Roberts got caught up in this little cottage industry he has created and is now living quite a lifestyle off the backers who think theyre donating and buying things to actual make a game. Basically theyre supporting roberts and all the employees he has.  Which in a real world would mean those employees are making progress but we have seen over the past 7 years every time there is a step forward there are three steps back. Which just makes it perpetual fund raising and the ultimate in job security.
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,979
    edited September 2019
    Just in case people still care about the Thread original Topic...

    A new update just went up for the Evocati changing the rental prices and rendering the initial "drama" pointless just like I said it would, and we didn't even had to wait a full year :D

    Gameplay

    • Updated ship rental price model dramatically so that common ships are 2% of value for 1 day and 1.25% of value for 30 days and rare ships are 3% value for 1 day and 1.5% of value for 30 days.
    B)
    Post edited by Babuinix on
    MaxBaconErillion
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,620
    edited September 2019
    rodarin said:
    in the beginning he said he could make it for what was it 5 million? He has 60 times that and it isnt much closer to being released than it was then. You can spout all the bullshit you want about how backers and fans voted to have the thing expanded all you want. Point is Roberts got caught up in this little cottage industry he has created and is now living quite a lifestyle off the backers who think theyre donating and buying things to actual make a game. Basically theyre supporting roberts and all the employees he has.  Which in a real world would mean those employees are making progress but we have seen over the past 7 years every time there is a step forward there are three steps back. Which just makes it perpetual fund raising and the ultimate in job security.
    Ah classic rodarin. The usual hollow hyperbole made on the spot just showing you little you know of the game no longer amuses me as it once did...


    Babuinix said:
    Just in case people still care about the Thread original Topic...

    A new update was just went up for the Evocati changing the rental prices and rendering the initial "drama" pointless just like I said it would, and we didn't even had to wait a full year :D

    Gameplay

    • Updated ship rental price model dramatically so that common ships are 2% of value for 1 day and 1.25% of value for 30 days and rare ships are 3% value for 1 day and 1.5% of value for 30 days.
    B)

    Lasted 2 days...

    Are you happier with the numbers now @rpmcmurphy? I actually think it's too easy now lol, unless they are rebalancing the OP earning rates
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Babuinix said:
    Just in case people still care about the Thread original Topic...

    A new update was just went up for the Evocati changing the rental prices and rendering the initial "drama" pointless just like I said it would, and we didn't even had to wait a full year :D

    Gameplay

    • Updated ship rental price model dramatically so that common ships are 2% of value for 1 day and 1.25% of value for 30 days and rare ships are 3% value for 1 day and 1.5% of value for 30 days.
    B)
    It was never meant to be drama. It's perfectly possible to talk about these things without it but you emotional fanboys just see attacks everywhere and start on the defensive every, single time. That's typically the cause of the drama.
    If it is ok to discuss it on the subreddit why is it not ok to do that elsewhere or are you going to claim that the SC subreddit is all about drama as well?


    MaxBacon said:
    Lasted 2 days...

    Are you happier with the numbers now @rpmcmurphy? I actually think it's too easy now lol, unless they are rebalancing the OP earning rates


    This is much better. It does beg the question of why they couldn't have put some better thought into prices from the start and avoid these sort of situations, if it was such a simple change.

    It is funny though, you were arguing so vehemently in defense of the prices and how it was good for SC and then they go and do this :)
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