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Ship Rental Prices - Evocati Leak

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,270
    Kefo said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Uh huh...

    Hey, these prices are fine! Look, there are 2 people on the internet that have come up with optimized wonder routes that rely on good mission spawns, non-buggy missions (lol) server swapping and lack of competition. CIG should totally balance earnings around that! The game should be a lazer focused credit earning machine, screw the sandbox.

    Absolutely ridiculous.


    The balance the game has is pretty much general metrics the developers have been applying on the features they develop, they have people dedicated to balance but the flight model and combat balance are the current focus.
    They might want to hire more people then cause havent they been working on the flight model for years and still can’t get something that’s halfway decent in a game that is supposed to be about flying spaceships.
    They seem to have the type of playerbase that just likes to brag about how much they spent on a ship, not actually play the game with it.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Kefo said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Uh huh...

    Hey, these prices are fine! Look, there are 2 people on the internet that have come up with optimized wonder routes that rely on good mission spawns, non-buggy missions (lol) server swapping and lack of competition. CIG should totally balance earnings around that! The game should be a lazer focused credit earning machine, screw the sandbox.

    Absolutely ridiculous.


    The balance the game has is pretty much general metrics the developers have been applying on the features they develop, they have people dedicated to balance but the flight model and combat balance are the current focus.
    They might want to hire more people then cause havent they been working on the flight model for years and still can’t get something that’s halfway decent in a game that is supposed to be about flying spaceships.
    They seem to have the type of playerbase that just likes to brag about how much they spent on a ship, not actually play the game with it.
    And a player base that will make constant excuses as to why things that should have been nailed down first are nowhere near completion or are now holding up the rest of production. 
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Babuinix said:
    Yes they are absolutely fine and completely finished and set in stone forever and will never be changed anymore so that's a perfectly excuse to whine about Star Citizen lol

    Open development really is the ultimate instigator of knee jerk reactions. :D
    Yeah, cos no one is allowed to discuss anything until the game is released...

    I'm imagining you working somewhere, they design a new product and solicit various people about intended pricing and you come out with these gems when someone says they think the suggested price is too high. YoU cAnT CoMPlaIN iTs nOT FIniSHeD YeT!!!!
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,351
    Babuinix said:


    Open development really is the ultimate instigator of knee jerk reactions. :D
    Funny.  I thought the Evocati were under NDA... kind of the opposite of "open development" no?

    rpmcmurphy

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    edited September 2019
    Babuinix said:


    Open development really is the ultimate instigator of knee jerk reactions. :D
    Funny.  I thought the Evocati were under NDA... kind of the opposite of "open development" no?

    The Evocati are only one of three circles of playtesters, of which only the first one (=Evocati) is under NDA because they test the most early builds with quite a few rough bugs.

    The PTU Test Universe and Open Universe are open for all. Open development for all that want to participate.  And if you are an active tester, you can join the Evocati if you want and they ask you because your bug reports are useful.

    Like with all NDA's leaks can happen. Especially as it is known that the 4chan/Goon guys have some of their people as spies in the Evocati, intentionally leaking things that suit their agenda.


    Have fun


    rpmcmurphy
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Erillion said:

    Like with all NDA's leaks can happen. Especially as it is known that the 4chan/Goon guys have some of their people as spies in the Evocati, intentionally leaking things that suit their agenda.


    First time I have heard that conspiracy theory. Anything to back it up?

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,965
    edited September 2019
    Babuinix said:
    Yes they are absolutely fine and completely finished and set in stone forever and will never be changed anymore so that's a perfectly excuse to whine about Star Citizen lol

    Open development really is the ultimate instigator of knee jerk reactions. :D
    Yeah, cos no one is allowed to discuss anything until the game is released...

    I'm imagining you working somewhere, they design a new product and solicit various people about intended pricing and you come out with these gems when someone says they think the suggested price is too high. YoU cAnT CoMPlaIN iTs nOT FIniSHeD YeT!!!!
    We're allowed to discuss anything about Star Citizen here. I'm just pointing out that making dramatic threads with assumptions about something that's incomplete might not be a worthy effort and seems more like another low effort excuse to get mad at Star Citizen lol

    Babuinix said:


    Open development really is the ultimate instigator of knee jerk reactions. :D
    Funny.  I thought the Evocati were under NDA... kind of the opposite of "open development" no?
    The only reason we are even having this discussion is because of open development.  B)
    rpmcmurphy
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    edited September 2019
    Babuinix said:
    We're allowed to discuss anything about Star Citizen here. I'm just pointing out that making dramatic threads with assumptions about something that's incomplete might not be a worthy effort and seems more like another low effort excuse to get mad at Star Citizen lol

    Posting a descriptive title ie "Ship Rental Prices - Evocati Leak" and a picture of said prices with no subjective opinions is "making dramatic threads"? If that is the case you have an exceedingly low threshold for being triggered....

    When you have fanboys that assume people's intent and wade in with a bully-like defensive attitude then of course the thread is going to become dramatic. It just shows how impossible it is to have a civil but critical discussion where fanboys are included.

    WalkinGlenn
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Erillion said:

    Like with all NDA's leaks can happen. Especially as it is known that the 4chan/Goon guys have some of their people as spies in the Evocati, intentionally leaking things that suit their agenda.


    First time I have heard that conspiracy theory. Anything to back it up?

    Personal knowledge. And no, i will not post it here.


    Have fun
    WalkinGlennIceAge
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,351
    Babuinix said:

    The only reason we are even having this discussion is because of open development.  B)
    No... the only reason we are having this discussion is because they took my money many years ago and haven't delivered my Squadron 42.  If they had, I wouldn't be in this thread.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,612
    edited September 2019
    It's not like people here actually play the game to care about the balance numbers during alpha on a game still to be balanced on multiple aspects. The feedback is given, attm is irrelevant because it's NDA and it's locked to its own testing group feedback, the next phase is open to everyone.


    The NDA Evocati is just the response to the people whining about the initial testing builds of an update being quite broken back when there was no Evocati, too much drama now they keep the early builds within their own testing group until they are stable enough for public PTU.

    Better this way, going back to when PTU was public, with people wanting early access to update then getting triggered at the devs because of limited playability was useless.
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,965
    edited September 2019
    Babuinix said:

    The only reason we are even having this discussion is because of open development.  B)
    No... the only reason we are having this discussion is because they took my money many years ago and haven't delivered my Squadron 42.  If they had, I wouldn't be in this thread.
    Im pretty sure You gave Your money willingly just as I'm sure Your Squadron 42 is not being developed but Chris Roberts Squadron 42 is and whether we post in this thread or not has no bearing on it.
    rpmcmurphy said:
    Babuinix said:
    We're allowed to discuss anything about Star Citizen here. I'm just pointing out that making dramatic threads with assumptions about something that's incomplete might not be a worthy effort and seems more like another low effort excuse to get mad at Star Citizen lol

    Posting a descriptive title ie "Ship Rental Prices - Evocati Leak" and a picture of said prices with no subjective opinions is "making dramatic threads"? If that is the case you have an exceedingly low threshold for being triggered....

    When you have fanboys that assume people's intent and wade in with a bully-like defensive attitude then of course the thread is going to become dramatic. It just shows how impossible it is to have a civil but critical discussion where fanboys are included.
    Well you did get a bit antsy when Max posted a "making credits tutorial" that seemed to weaken your efforts to make the "ship rentals are too "expensive" drama.

    Maybe they are maybe they aren't, only after testing things out will CIG have the necessary data and power to tune stuff. In practice it doesn't eally matter that much until persistence is done and our efforts carry on between patches.

    If it's about getting to fly new ships and do more missions you can already experience them just by asking other players for a ride, stealing them, playing the PTU or  making the most of free-flights when they happen. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,351
    Babuinix said:
    Babuinix said:

    The only reason we are even having this discussion is because of open development.  B)
    No... the only reason we are having this discussion is because they took my money many years ago and haven't delivered my Squadron 42.  If they had, I wouldn't be in this thread.
    Im pretty sure You gave Your money willingly just as I'm sure Your Squadron 42 is not being developed but Chris Roberts Squadron 42 is and whether we post in this thread or not has no bearing on it.
    Wrong.  It is the ONLY reason I am posting in this thread or do you also claim to know my reasoning better than I do myself?  If I had not fallen for Chris Roberts Golden Ticket... many, many years ago... I would not be posting this.   It's that simple.


    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    IceAge said:
    Soon.. you'll be like 

    Jesus, it's almost 2030.
    :D 
    Discussing a release date? Some people need to reread their copy of "There is no Game" playbook.

    Talking about balancing rental and purchases prices - sheesh people might get the idea that there are ships! Ships that can be flown, a game engine to support that, a system in place to buy or rent them and a way of making in-game credit such as missions, transporting, mining etc. 

    Whatever next?
    ErillionBabuinixrpmcmurphyKyleran
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,965
    Babuinix said:
    Babuinix said:

    The only reason we are even having this discussion is because of open development.  B)
    No... the only reason we are having this discussion is because they took my money many years ago and haven't delivered my Squadron 42.  If they had, I wouldn't be in this thread.
    Im pretty sure You gave Your money willingly just as I'm sure Your Squadron 42 is not being developed but Chris Roberts Squadron 42 is and whether we post in this thread or not has no bearing on it.
    Wrong.  It is the ONLY reason I am posting in this thread or do you also claim to know my reasoning better than I do myself?  If I had not fallen for Chris Roberts Golden Ticket... many, many years ago... I would not be posting this.   It's that simple.


    Well but you're just strengthening my initial claim that "Open development really is the ultimate instigator of knee jerk reactions" by acknowledging that you backed Star Citizen / Squadron42 on a whim. :)
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:

    Like with all NDA's leaks can happen. Especially as it is known that the 4chan/Goon guys have some of their people as spies in the Evocati, intentionally leaking things that suit their agenda.


    First time I have heard that conspiracy theory. Anything to back it up?

    Personal knowledge. And no, i will not post it here.


    Have fun

    Right. You can always PM me with the details.

    Whenever I see any talk of undercover infiltration in their SC thread it's only ever been about taking the piss of conspiracists but I'm open to being shown otherwise.

    Babuinix said:
    Well you did get a bit antsy when Max posted a "making credits tutorial" that seemed to weaken your efforts to make the "ship rentals are too "expensive" drama.

    Maybe they are maybe they aren't, only after testing things out will CIG have the necessary data and power to tune stuff. In practice it doesn't eally matter that much until persistence is done and our efforts carry on between patches.
    I got fed up with Max because he starts putting out his veilled insults, which is a regular thing with him. And that only reinforces my point that any civil criticism gets derailled by emotive fanboys feeling they have to defend at all costs...

    It might not matter so much right now but it is indicative how CIG are thinking about costs, we can add it to the pool of other examples that have been in the game for some time to get a general idea of CIG's direction, ie REC, QT times, ship prices and so on.
    One of the common complaints about REC prices is that they are too high unless you are a subscriber receiving your stipend.


    Babuinix said:
    If it's about getting to fly new ships and do more missions you can already experience them just by asking other players for a ride, stealing them, playing the PTU or  making the most of free-flights when they happen. 

    Uh no. It's about testing the economy and the rental system. People can already buy some ships in game so begging, seesion-only theft, playing the PTU or making the most of free-fly weeks have nothing to do with it.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,351
    Babuinix said:
    Babuinix said:
    Babuinix said:

    The only reason we are even having this discussion is because of open development.  B)
    No... the only reason we are having this discussion is because they took my money many years ago and haven't delivered my Squadron 42.  If they had, I wouldn't be in this thread.
    Im pretty sure You gave Your money willingly just as I'm sure Your Squadron 42 is not being developed but Chris Roberts Squadron 42 is and whether we post in this thread or not has no bearing on it.
    Wrong.  It is the ONLY reason I am posting in this thread or do you also claim to know my reasoning better than I do myself?  If I had not fallen for Chris Roberts Golden Ticket... many, many years ago... I would not be posting this.   It's that simple.


    Well but you're just strengthening my initial claim that "Open development really is the ultimate instigator of knee jerk reactions" by acknowledging that you backed Star Citizen / Squadron42 on a whim. :)
    You continue to be confused.  When I backed Star Citizen it was not "Open Development" and it wasn't a whim.  It was due to my love of Wing Commander and the promise of a new version of that.  You really need to stop trying to state why other people do things. 

    Do you, let everyone else do themselves.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,965
    edited September 2019
    I dont think the issue here is about attacking or defending anything and more about aknowledging that things are a work in progress and will eventually change  so it's a bit premature to try and spark up discussion with a "dramatic concern" tone.

    It's basically the same thread you made from a year ago: 

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/476754/about-those-ship-prices/p1

    As you can see the data used at the time of that posted and used to make those assumptions bases on a glimpse of a mission is now completely irrelevant because new missions were introduced, new payouts, changes in refueling costs etc.

    So until all the pieces are in place and adjusted there's not much of a point in concerning or dramatizing until the final
    picture is in sight because like all things in game development they will be adjusted as CIG gets more data from their players who actually play the game and not exactly from random forum posters.
    Erillionrpmcmurphy
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,965
    Babuinix said:
    Babuinix said:
    Babuinix said:

    The only reason we are even having this discussion is because of open development.  B)
    No... the only reason we are having this discussion is because they took my money many years ago and haven't delivered my Squadron 42.  If they had, I wouldn't be in this thread.
    Im pretty sure You gave Your money willingly just as I'm sure Your Squadron 42 is not being developed but Chris Roberts Squadron 42 is and whether we post in this thread or not has no bearing on it.
    Wrong.  It is the ONLY reason I am posting in this thread or do you also claim to know my reasoning better than I do myself?  If I had not fallen for Chris Roberts Golden Ticket... many, many years ago... I would not be posting this.   It's that simple.


    Well but you're just strengthening my initial claim that "Open development really is the ultimate instigator of knee jerk reactions" by acknowledging that you backed Star Citizen / Squadron42 on a whim. :)
    You continue to be confused.  When I backed Star Citizen it was not "Open Development" and it wasn't a whim.  It was due to my love of Wing Commander and the promise of a new version of that.  You really need to stop trying to state why other people do things. 

    Do you, let everyone else do themselves.

    I'd call that a whim but whatever, you do you.

    But hey at least Squadron 42 is still in the works and looking awesome!
    WalkinGlenn
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    edited September 2019
    Babuinix said:
    I dont think the issue here is about attacking or defending anything and more about aknowledging that things are a work in progress and will eventually change  so it's a bit premature to try and spark up discussion with a "dramatic concern" tone.

    Do you want to highlight the "dramatic concern" tone?

    Babuinix said:
    It's basically the same thread you made from a year ago: 

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/476754/about-those-ship-prices/p1

    As you can see the data used at the time of that posted and used to make those assumptions bases on a glimpse of a mission is now completely irrelevant because new missions were introduced, new payouts, changes in refueling costs etc.

    So until all the pieces are in place and adjusted there's not much of a point in concerning or dramatizing until the final
    picture is in sight because like all things in game development they will be adjusted as CIG gets more data from their players who actually play the game and not exactly from random forum posters.
    Wow, one other thread about this sort of topic a whole year ago.... whatever will we do with my spamming?

    Take a hike with your gatekeeping. If someone wants to talk about ship prices or rental prices or income there is no reason they should not be allowed to do so. We don't need everything in place before we discuss it, we don't need disclaimers saying "SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!!" because any idiot knows that things are in flux.

    That does not mean we cannot critique or question the current implementation and what the effect might be if it was to stay that way. If you think the topic is pointless you're more than welcome to move right along.
    Slapshot1188Kefo
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,965
    edited September 2019
    The overall of the posts are the perfect highlight, just the same old looking for validation that theres something wrong with the prices.

    And I'm not acusing you of spamming, I'm just pointing out how you concerned about the same similar subject a year ago based on data that ended up changing drastically.
     
    But sure, if "discussing" and forming opinions based on ever changing data is your thing knock youselves out, I'm sure it will end up being as relevant as last year's one.
    rpmcmurphy
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    edited September 2019
    Babuinix said:
    The overall of the posts are the perfect highlight, just the same old looking for validation that theres something wrong with the prices.
    The overall "what" of the posts?
    You've been asked twice to show where the OP contained "dramatic concern" and both times you've started talking about other crap. You make accusations and assumptions of tone and intent, and then act surprised when it pisses me off a bit, what do you expect me to do, say "Oh that's fine, just say whatever you want!"
    Babuinix said:
    And I'm not acusing you of spamming, I'm just pointing out how you concerned about the same similar subject a year ago based on data that ended up changing drastically.
     
    Yet, as I said prior, there is plenty of data in game right now that reinforces CIG's direction regarding prices and time. Just because some other things have changed does not mean everything is going to change.

    Babuinix said:
    But sure, if "discussing" and forming opinions based on ever changing data is your thing knock youselves out, I'm sure it will end up being as relevant as last year's one.
    Gee, thanks for the permission Mr.Gatekeeper...

    If this is the conclusion you have reached you could have just not bothered posting in the first place, it's not like the thread would be missing anything from your contributions....

    It's laughable that you of all people are trying to judge when the standard for your posts is to drop in to threads and try and bait people.
    You're taking swipes at "discussions" when your M.O is to act like some edgy teen whose wandered off tumblr. Just put a fucking sock in it eh.
    Babuinix
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,965
    Jeez I dunno why you got so rattled because I pointed out that discussing something based on incomplete and inaccurate data is bound to be incorrect. I even brought a old thread as an example. And I'm the "edgy teen whose wandered off tumblr" way to put a sock in this thread....
    rpmcmurphy
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Babuinix said:
    Jeez I dunno why you got so rattled because I pointed out that discussing something based on incomplete and inaccurate data is bound to be incorrect. I even brought a old thread as an example. And I'm the "edgy teen whose wandered off tumblr" way to put a sock in this thread....
    So then maybe when we talk about how we think this game is going to be very P2W don’t come screeching in here saying how we are all wrong because CR said something years ago. You don’t have complete or accurate data so don’t try and tell other people they are wrong either
    rpmcmurphy
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,965
    edited September 2019
    I play the game almost every day and don't feel that it's pay2win so no point in screeching saying how I'm wrong from posters who don't even play the game. :smile:
    lahnmirrpmcmurphyWalkinGlenn
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