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Pantheon:RotF in trouble

This is a tough one to write as I put 1k into Pantheon:RotF shortly after the first PA test ended. I have been following the game with bated breath and have absorbed every bit of info I could on the game. I have been anticipating in playing in the Alpha and have been watching the last year and a half tick by with nothing. Now work continues on Project: Faerthale almost a year after the last PA started. According to newsletter PA3 started in November/December of 2018. 

Now I don't consider Pantheon:RotF vaporware. We get a steady stream of updates and its obvious they are working on a game at this moment. We also know a few dozen devs are working on. Though technically vaporware is described as,  software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed.  So I guess lots of games are vaporware including Death Stranding, Cyberpunk 2077, and any game in development right now. 

With a heavy heart I have to ask this question is Pantheon in trouble? There store is still open and Pantheon is the one of the only crowd funded MMO's that doesn't talk about how much money they raised. Nowhere. Not in one of there monthly blogs, on the website like Crowfall, Camelot: Uncleaned, Star Citizen, or Dual Citizen does. I would have to believe if they were getting quite a bit of money they would want to advertise that.

Then on Wednesday they opened a store with ridiculous prices where the funds will also go to funding the game. I was led to believe that the game was already funded till launch. Though looking into this more I may have been a fool for thinking this. Confusing it with another upcoming MMO as I couldn't find that Reddit comment nor could I find a statement to that at all. All I could find was this:
http://visionaryrealms.com/visionary-realms-closes-series-a-funding-for-highly-anticipated-videogame-pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/

I hate to say this but I think Visionary Realms is burning through money. As much as people would like to blame this on Brad it wouldn't be him this time. He learned his mistake on Vanguard and hired someone else to keep track of the books and money. If they aren't bringing enough money in though not much that guy can do.

This game is already taking longer then it was supposed to. PA was supposed to last a year, with Alpha for a year, and beta for 6-8 months. If they had kept to that timeline then we would be almost to the end of the Alpha phase. In January or so of 2020 we would be getting into beta.

So I have to ask again... Is Pantheon in trouble? The honest answer is we will never know until someone official comes and tells us everything is ok. For now though I am going to say that it is.

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Comments

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,465
    edited September 20
    I always have my opinion,not just random but i just been around a long time and seen a lot in the gaming industry.
    There is obviously a huge back story to all of this of which i have seen it all and been there.

    If you remember the VG saga,there was very high hopes and imo even Brad had high hopes.Money was the issue,people blame Brad but guess what,he did a pretty good job considering they didn't have the money.
    Anyhow my point is that Brad was one of the first if not VERY few that actually took part in forum discussions.It turned out to be a mistake because he was ridiculed unjustly and rudely instead of treated like a normal person.

    So from that moment on i feel Brad learned to keep a low profile,most of what comes out in the media is either paid for biased reviews or harsh criticism.So fast forward to today,imo this never had the budget...obviously,it is a crowd funded game.I have stated many times,you cannot build a game this way but it is the only way this team could build one at this point being what brad went through with VG.

    This is why i would be very skeptical to the quality of this game.I do have faith that this team will likely give us a decent game considering the budget and will give us an honest effort.I just feel this team feels it is better to keep a lid on things otherwise a hornet's nest opens up and a lot of drama ensues.

    So imo we should look at this realistically,don't expect a god savior of a game,imo will still be more fun to play than Wow but not a AAA game.It will be a bit of a let down because myself and likely many others are dying to see a really good NON Wow copy mmorpg come out,we need a breathe of fresh air.

    ArteriuscheebaMendeljimmywolf

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 1,903
    Wizardry said:
    I always have my opinion,not just random but i just been around a long time and seen a lot in the gaming industry.
    There is obviously a huge back story to all of this of which i have seen it all and been there.

    If you remember the VG saga,there was very high hopes and imo even Brad had high hopes.Money was the issue,people blame Brad but guess what,he did a pretty good job considering they didn't have the money.
    Anyhow my point is that Brad was one of the first if not VERY few that actually took part in forum discussions.It turned out to be a mistake because he was ridiculed unjustly and rudely instead of treated like a normal person.

    So from that moment on i feel Brad learned to keep a low profile,most of what comes out in the media is either paid for biased reviews or harsh criticism.So fast forward to today,imo this never had the budget...obviously,it is a crowd funded game.I have stated many times,you cannot build a game this way but it is the only way this team could build one at this point being what brad went through with VG.

    This is why i would be very skeptical to the quality of this game.I do have faith that this team will likely give us a decent game considering the budget and will give us an honest effort.I just feel this team feels it is better to keep a lid on things otherwise a hornet's nest opens up and a lot of drama ensues.

    So imo we should look at this realistically,don't expect a god savior of a game,imo will still be more fun to play than Wow but not a AAA game.It will be a bit of a let down because myself and likely many others are dying to see a really good NON Wow copy mmorpg come out,we need a breathe of fresh air.

    Dang Wiz that may be the most enlightened post that I have heard on this site. 
    Kyleransvann
  • XodicXodic Member EpicPosts: 988
    edited September 20

    There hasn't really been any events that would alter confidence levels. They haven't announced a setback that would make people abandon ship, nor have they showcased anything that would drive more people to invest in the game. I'd say that given the circumstances surrounding other MMOs in development, that's definitely a good thing. I mean, it’s not like they’re having a Kickstarter anniversary to sell you more things, without a hint of evidence suggesting that they’re meeting any of their commitments of the actual Kickstarter.

    I suspect that once Faerthale is complete that VR will pair that milestone with a promotional fund raising campaign. At least I hope they do. Not only would they present as good faith developers in showing that real progress is being made, but it would be a prime opportunity to capitalize on the interest created by game enthusiasts reporting on the achievement.

    I personally think that they’re in a really good spot right now, with more opportunities going forward than the hurdles they’ve already had to jump.

    mcd6993
  • DafAtRandomDafAtRandom Member UncommonPosts: 33
    I'm not sure it's time to ring the alarm bell just yet...VR polled the backers quite a few months back to gauge interest in which type of money funding scenario the population wouldn't mind seeing...most people answered they wouldn't mind a shop that sells hats and shirts as opposed to a cash shop in game.  So VR created a shop...with hats and shirts...and all of a sudden it's supposed to be a trigger for problems ? I think people are just making assumptions based on how pricey the things are, and as we all know, assumption is the mother of all mistakes.

    If anything I'd say things are just on cruise control for now.  VR have been very consistent with their approach to timetables (it's gonna be ready when it's ready) and as Wizardry mentioned, I think lessons were learned from the Vanguard Saga.  Newsletters are still being released every month, and while their content might not be as ground shattering as some of us would like them to be, we have to keep things in perspective and remember this is a small team - there is just not going to be 152 pages of new content monthly to deliver to the masses...things are gonna be going slower, and I think it's prudent to take things in strides instead of overpromising in those and then falling short on the delivery.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,013
    edited September 20
    Seriously guys, read the latest newsletter, it showcases the new things they have to sell right up front and state point blank they are relying on crowd funding dollars to keep the lights on.

    Not saying they are in trouble buy they are in the same boat as Soulbound Studio only difference being they have a bit more to show for it.

    Maybe they need a Kickstarterversary,  SBS is raking in the cash right now which probably will help them keep the lights on for another year or two.

    Those who live under the bridge are good at financial accounting.

     >:) 
    OG_ZorvanAdamantine

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Wizardry said:

    If you remember the VG saga,there was very high hopes and imo even Brad had high hopes.Money was the issue,people blame Brad but guess what,he did a pretty good job considering they didn't have the money.
    Anyhow my point is that Brad was one of the first if not VERY few that actually took part in forum discussions.It turned out to be a mistake because he was ridiculed unjustly and rudely instead of treated like a normal person.
    That paragraph is a boatload of nonsense.  Other than that, good post.  It's definitely not going to be some type of AAA production, no matter what.

    VG even had Microsoft supporting them as a publisher, to start.  Microsoft saw that they were producing no major progress and bailed from that sinking ship.
    "ridiculed unjustly"? Seriously?  Even Brad admits his stupid mistakes, so it's astounding that you are arguing them.
    Brad made a huge post one time fessing up to his past errors and speaking on his own behalf, so it's not exactly like people made a bunch of stuff up to ridicule him.  The guy did a terrible job running VG and screwed over his employees on his first attempt at Pantheon.

    He was smart enough to bring other people in to run things this time.  Now he's more creative director, as far as I know.  Simply put, you would never want him handling your money.  But, he does fine as a creative.
    People bring that stuff up because he has a bad history of failure and mismanagement.

    But, that story is old, and I haven't seen anyone talking about that stuff in a long while... except for you, now.

    OP:
    They have financial backers, but that doesn't mean 100% funding coverage.  So, raising additional funding is not that surprising.  All of these games are doing it.
    Camelot Unchained is still selling packages and such, afaik, and MJ put a bunch of his own money in to it, for example.
    When developing an MMO, you really can't have "too much" money.  Pantheon doesn't have a publisher backing them, so their funding is not exactly a guarantee of endless money.
    OG_Zorvan
  • DafAtRandomDafAtRandom Member UncommonPosts: 33
    Kyleran said:
    Seriously guys, read the latest newsletter, it showcases the new things they have to sell right up front and state point blank they are relying on crowd funding dollars to keep the lights on.

    Not saying they are in trouble buy they are in the same boat as Soulbound Studio only difference being they have a bit more to show for it.

    Maybe they need a Kickstarterversary,  SBS is raking in the cash right now which probably will help them keep the lights on for another year or two.

    Those who live under the bridge are good at financial accounting.

     >:) 

    They have always been upfront about needing crowdfunding, and polled the backers months ago about what would be an acceptable way to raise money.  They implemented the shop as it was what backers said they'd be willing to spend money on, so I'm not sure why all of a sudden the situation is more dire than it was 6 months ago.  It's either the situation is as dire as it ever was and they are all eating crackers with cheap peanut butter every meal, or they are just following through with their initial plan, which was to create a shop to attempt to get more dollars while making every dollar they have count.

    Pantheon is a crowdfunding game - of course they need the backer's money.  As do all crowdfunding ventures...it's kind of, you know, the nature of the beast...

    I'd say if the shop came out of nowhere...that would probably be concerning...but seeing as how they mentioned the possibility, been upfront about needing the money all along and polled the backers...I don't see why things are suddenly different.

    Of course, only VR knows.  So there's always that.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,013
    edited September 20
    Lokero said:
    Wizardry said:

    If you remember the VG saga,there was very high hopes and imo even Brad had high hopes.Money was the issue,people blame Brad but guess what,he did a pretty good job considering they didn't have the money.
    Anyhow my point is that Brad was one of the first if not VERY few that actually took part in forum discussions.It turned out to be a mistake because he was ridiculed unjustly and rudely instead of treated like a normal person.
    That paragraph is a boatload of nonsense.  Other than that, good post.  It's definitely not going to be some type of AAA production, no matter what.

    VG even had Microsoft supporting them as a publisher, to start.  Microsoft saw that they were producing no major progress and bailed from that sinking ship.
    "ridiculed unjustly"? Seriously?  Even Brad admits his stupid mistakes, so it's astounding that you are arguing them.
    Brad made a huge post one time fessing up to his past errors and speaking on his own behalf, so it's not exactly like people made a bunch of stuff up to ridicule him.  The guy did a terrible job running VG and screwed over his employees on his first attempt at Pantheon.

    He was smart enough to bring other people in to run things this time.  Now he's more creative director, as far as I know.  Simply put, you would never want him handling your money.  But, he does fine as a creative.
    People bring that stuff up because he has a bad history of failure and mismanagement.

    But, that story is old, and I haven't seen anyone talking about that stuff in a long while... except for you, now.

    OP:
    They have financial backers, but that doesn't mean 100% funding coverage.  So, raising additional funding is not that surprising.  All of these games are doing it.
    Camelot Unchained is still selling packages and such, afaik, and MJ put a bunch of his own money in to it, for example.
    When developing an MMO, you really can't have "too much" money.  Pantheon doesn't have a publisher backing them, so their funding is not exactly a guarantee of endless money.
    The way the latest newsletter reads one could assume crowdfunding now accounts for over 51% of their budget, and could be much greater going forward.

    They may have burned through most of the initial investor funds and now are relying mostly on backers to keep the dream alive.

    You brought up CU, MJ has clearly stated while crowd funding got them started, it no longer is a large part of their funding, most of it is either from Mark's pockets or the investors he got on board.

    Don't forget, Mark will still refund any backers pledge and regularly does so, something no other indie dev offers to my knowledge so I tend to believe his claims.

    Those living under the bridge approve of liberal refund policies.

     >:) 



    cheyaneSlapshot1188YashaX

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,116
    I think most people don’t understand the costs. If there is a huge amount of money they think the games going to be huge and released on time. If they see a low amount of money they think it’ll never get released. In reality it all depends in the team in the end and what they can do with the money they get. 

    Honestly the best thing they can do is keep showing their progress and continue working. 
    Mendel
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,386
    I am so sad. I don't go about openly talking about this game but it is definitely one I am hoping to play.
    Arterius
    image
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Kyleran said:
    The way the latest newsletter reads one could assume crowdfunding now accounts for over 51% of their budget, and could be much greater going forward.

    They may have burned through most of the initial investor funds and now are relying mostly on backers to keep the dream alive.
    Well, I think we can say that every single one of these indie MMOs - other than Star Citizen - is running on fumes and pledges.

    At the rate they are each progressing(that is, barely), they should all run out of money long before any type of release.  So I guess I don't see the point in worrying that one game is worse off than any of the others - CoE jokes aside.

    It's astounding that when these games are only surviving on donations their production is actually 10x slower than normal.  You'd think they'd be in a major hurry to get something to market yet they are barely accomplishing anything.  Again, SC being an exemption because they can survive for decades at the rate they are gaining money.

    I guess we know why none of these games can find publishers.
    Publisher: "Show us what you've accomplished in the 7 years you've been building this."
    Studio: "Well, we have a character creator and a starter zone and some placeholder animations. But, don't worry, we've got 300 pages of lore and design docs!"

    At least, that's how all of these indie MMOs feel to me. :D
    ArteriusOG_ZorvancheyaneBenezetta
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,279
    Kyleran said:
    Seriously guys, read the latest newsletter, it showcases the new things they have to sell right up front and state point blank they are relying on crowd funding dollars to keep the lights on.
    Apparently this is the first time you read about the game at all ?

    Yes this project relies on crowdfunding. Thats not news to anybody who has informed themselves about the game. It does so since 2014.


    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,279
    When Bioware was still Bioware and not a trademark name owned by EA, their development principle was: Its done when its done. Which gave us awesome, wonderful, finished at release games like Baldurs Gate 2, or Knights of the Old Republic. Not the trash EA nowadays tries to blame on Bioware.

    I have no problem if Pantheon is developed with the same principle in mind.

    What I disagree with is their decision to not start the alpha before the game isnt graphically polished, to not give people the wrong impression. There will always be stupid people around who draw all kinds of wrong conclusions, no matter what you do. They should ignore that and continue on.

    Meanwhile there is no actual evidence whatsoever in this thread that the game would be failing, thus this is all pointless fearmongering with no substance at all.
    mcd6993
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,826
    Feature creep. 
    Just release a core game and allow backers to play it and test it while you roll out newer builds.
    Sometimes studios get too cute with a project and it causes delay after delay. 
    I have no interest in this game but from my brief play with Jim Lee it was a solid (if not a bit boring) older style mmorpg.
    Just no reason to be taking this long. 
    Remember the development time for EQ1? ;)  
    MendelTorvalSlapshot1188YashaX

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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,954
    Wizardry said:
    I always have my opinion,not just random but i just been around a long time and seen a lot in the gaming industry.
    There is obviously a huge back story to all of this of which i have seen it all and been there.

    If you remember the VG saga,there was very high hopes and imo even Brad had high hopes.Money was the issue,people blame Brad but guess what,he did a pretty good job considering they didn't have the money.
    Anyhow my point is that Brad was one of the first if not VERY few that actually took part in forum discussions.It turned out to be a mistake because he was ridiculed unjustly and rudely instead of treated like a normal person.

    So from that moment on i feel Brad learned to keep a low profile,most of what comes out in the media is either paid for biased reviews or harsh criticism.So fast forward to today,imo this never had the budget...obviously,it is a crowd funded game.I have stated many times,you cannot build a game this way but it is the only way this team could build one at this point being what brad went through with VG.

    This is why i would be very skeptical to the quality of this game.I do have faith that this team will likely give us a decent game considering the budget and will give us an honest effort.I just feel this team feels it is better to keep a lid on things otherwise a hornet's nest opens up and a lot of drama ensues.

    So imo we should look at this realistically,don't expect a god savior of a game,imo will still be more fun to play than Wow but not a AAA game.It will be a bit of a let down because myself and likely many others are dying to see a really good NON Wow copy mmorpg come out,we need a breathe of fresh air.

    what killed vanguard? the publisher?

    image

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,098
    edited September 20
    I don't think the game is "in trouble" so much as it's in the exact same financial place as it's been since "since."

    @Arterious: this is what happens when you fill in your own narrative instead of just listening to what's actually being said. We've always known that most of their funding came from backers. It "is" a backer funded game. Pure and simple.

    Kyleran is correct, there was a poll asking people how they might prefer backing the game. In truth, I think they should try kickstarter again, but I remember voting for a store.

    However, as I said in another thread, their store is less about buying merchandise and then giving the game some support and more about "support the game and get some merchandise." Subtle difference.

    The map they are working on now is to give people a taste of what Pantheon game play will be like and I am assuming that it's to entice investors. We'll see.


    Post edited by Sovrath on



  • WarEnsembleWarEnsemble Member UncommonPosts: 211
    Perhaps this is a false comparision, but I have seen 1 person teams take Everquest 1 emulated servers, scrap 100% of the content excluding the graphics and zones, and completely recreate an entirely new game including combat mechanics, spells, thousands of quests, custom classes, servers that allow for more than 1 pet to be used at a time, and on and on, all in the matter of a few months. I could be wrong but it appears to me the problem is drive, not funding. 

    Another good example of the above is Axiom Verge. (Yes, I acknowledge a 2D platformer is infinitely easier to develop than a full fledge mmo) AV was developed by a single person in his spare time and is easily the best Metroidvania released since SotN and Super Metroid. I could be wrong, but it appears to me the problem is drive, not funding.
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,649
    Respect to OP for being honest.


    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,098
    Respect to OP for being honest.


    meh, I feel any crowdfunded game is 50/50. It might come out or it might not. One should just give a bit of money if they are inclined to do so and then walk away. 

    I think they need to finish this zone to excite backers and others who might throw money to them.

    I suppose it's ok to give 1k if one is "ok" to lose it. On one hand it's not that much money but I bet there are others who have given a lot more. Again, as long as it's ok for them to lose it then no biggie.



  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 205
    Wizardry said:
    I always have my opinion,not just random but i just been around a long time and seen a lot in the gaming industry.
    There is obviously a huge back story to all of this of which i have seen it all and been there.

    If you remember the VG saga,there was very high hopes and imo even Brad had high hopes.Money was the issue,people blame Brad but guess what,he did a pretty good job considering they didn't have the money.
    Anyhow my point is that Brad was one of the first if not VERY few that actually took part in forum discussions.It turned out to be a mistake because he was ridiculed unjustly and rudely instead of treated like a normal person.


    Money was not the issue at all, they had the money, Microsoft gave them the money, and they squandered it.
    Mismanagement was the issue, plain and simple. 

    Microsoft bailed due to deadlines being missed, and the money being wasted.

    As for Brad being ridiculed unjustly and rudely, maybe he was, maybe he was not, but if he had spent more time making sure work on the game itself was progressing as it should, instead off chatting shit on FoH forums, or running around in the Alpha/Beta on his dragon, things would have turned out differently.

    Be honest, it was a shit show, Sigil created the damn game, and could not even get head gear to work on the characters properly...and that was the least of the problems the game had.
    It is a funny world we live in.
    We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,787
    How long ago was it? Three years? More like two and it feels like last year that we were posting on our hopes on here for the kick starter MMOs. Now we just have to cross our fingers and see, will we even get one that is a success in its own terms? I really have no idea but I do have some advice for Arterius.

    Don't spend 1k on a game, nothing is that good or going to be that good. Mind you, you are hardly the first person on here to question what the game is going to be like after putting money in.
    TorvalmilyenKyleran

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  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,503
    This is kind of the problem with 'civilian' investors 'donating' money into something they want for themselves instead of something that will realistically 'mature.' People who do that fall for the idea and not the reality of the market or the people associated with it. I invested some coin into Pantheon as well, but honestly nothing I'm going to realistically miss. I did my little research and played the odds but doing the research just increases the odds of success, not provide a guarantee. All this crowd-funding guys say they want to make the game 'they want' without the corporate BS, which is fine, but with 'corporate' BS there are deadlines and, imo most importantly, accountability. Pantheon doesn't HAVE to release what people want. None of these crowdfund guys do. Just look at Crowfall and Ashes. Crowfall has been in stasis for like 4-5 years(?) with builds people can run around in if they want, but they wont be held accountable if they just decide to release what they currently have and be done with it. Ashes is the same way. The team could just cut their losses by just supporting the BR and abandoning the mmorpg (it would realistically give them more upfront capital if they did).

    Tl;dr - if you're backing something, never give more than what you're willing to miss.
    MendelSovrathKyleran
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,048
    I'm impressed  that people would invest $1000 in a game based on promises, not to mention they aren't even sure to ever play...
    KyleranYashaXPhaserlight
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  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member RarePosts: 2,798
    since the op mention vaporware, I will clarify vaporware is pretty much a slang for a software(I guess could be used on hardware too) who never leave the concept and was never done and then abandoned, your pantheon could be called vaporware because I doubt they will ever launch, cyberpunk in other hand is not since they already are almost done with it and we know the game is there
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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,669
    Kyleran said:
    Seriously guys, read the latest newsletter, it showcases the new things they have to sell right up front and state point blank they are relying on crowd funding dollars to keep the lights on.

    Not saying they are in trouble buy they are in the same boat as Soulbound Studio only difference being they have a bit more to show for it.

    Maybe they need a Kickstarterversary,  SBS is raking in the cash right now which probably will help them keep the lights on for another year or two.

    Those who live under the bridge are good at financial accounting.

     >:) 
    I thought this game was supposed to be funded by angel investors and secret backers. Some time ago supporters swore up and down this game wasn't relying on crowd-funding money. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

    I threw $145 at Ashes, which is what a typical MMO costs to play per year (sub + xpac fees). I like the premise and figured it was worth a years worth to give it a go. I think they will eventually make a game, but I don't think they'll make the game they originally envisioned. People need to be smart about these things and look pragmatically and what they are contributing to and how it works.

    Nowadays I don't trust any source. It's show me the money or gtfo. If someone says they have $80M in funding then prove it. If they're 65% complete then show us. If they can't then I'm not taking them seriously. There isn't a single project that is on target enough for me to make an exception.
    KyleranScot
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
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