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What is the difference between RvR and Faction vs Faction to you?

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,396
    Snowalker said:
    As i see it true RVR NEEDS 3 factions like DAOC and why not GW2.

    The main  reason is that when 1 faction becomes to powerful the other 2 can "group" against it.

    So yah ..  kinda everything else which is  almost 100% 2 factions /red vs blue  cant be called real RVR.
    RvRvR needs 3 factions. RvR only needs 2 :)
    gervaise1
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  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,363
    edited September 2019
    Siphaed said:
    I can going by the major PR spin that was done in Warhammer Online pre- and post-launch.   

    Realm vs. Realm is a merit based system of accounting for all accomplishments of all members in a Realm against those of the other Realm.  It is a matter of conflict that takes into account PvE actions as well as PvP actions.  A Realm's dungeoneers could essentially carry the Realm to merit victory against the opposing Realm, even if that other Realm is significantly better in PvP, just based on how points are allocated as well as overall participation progress.

       And thus is how Warhammer failed so hard as well.  The games original emphasis on RvR in consumer advertisement highlighted a large amount of PvP, with very little PvE additive.  However when actually delivered, it was far more PvE with very little PvP.  But the developers still sold PvE and PvP as both contributors to the overall Realm progression.  Because mechanics weighed heavier for PvE, the PvP portion of the game was more or less avoided so that groups could circle-cap PvE objectives for Realm progress.



    As for Faction vs. Faction, it is strictly a PvP term with little-to-no PvE matter within it.  World of Warcraft is the best example of this because its Faction vs. Faction was strictly regulated to PvP progress.   Sure later down the road they added in some PvE-progress areas (Negrand in the first expansion, for example), but the bulk was not that.   No dungeon contributed to a merit of one Faction over the other.   No raid either. they shared zones, shared some quests, and even shared neutral ports in quite a lot of areas.  Only PvP really counted as Faction vs. Faction.

    Good example of what I think of also.
    Gorwe
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,844
    i dont see the difference FvF or RvR are functionally the same thing. 
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  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,449
    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,564
    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    I don't think that's it. We never used the term "faction vs faction" in lineage 2.

    I think it's just another term for RvR.
    Hatefull
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    edited September 2019
    RvR - Battle of two or more geographic areas with opposing governments. Example, Iran v. Iraq

    FvF - Battle of people with opposing cultures, religions, or ideologies (no matter where they may be found). Example, Sunni v; Shia. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,387
    I think there are different ways a game can be made concerning factions and realms. So each game offers a different, or the same as another, take. Sometimes they are interchangeable and sometimes more specific in meaning. 

    Once upon a time....

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,209
    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    So is WoW FvF or RvR?

    image

  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 2,972
    To me the difference is insignificant to the point it doesn't matter at all.  I couldn't care less either way.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 753
    Faction vs. Faction is like WoW where you have 2 or more factions that are in conflict, but there is no actual game mechanic war going on. 

    Realm vs. Realm is like WAR or DAoC where you have 2 or more factions that are in conflict and actively fighting to control territory with capturable fortifications and systems in place to promote the conflict. 
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 753
    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    That's GvG, a completely separate system. Player created groups exists outside of the FvF and RvR system. 
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,377
    Sovrath said:
    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    I don't think that's it. We never used the term "faction vs faction" in lineage 2.

    I think it's just another term for RvR.
    I agree, I heard GvG a lot back then...but times change...


    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    That's GvG, a completely separate system. Player created groups exists outside of the FvF and RvR system. 
    How is it separate? You are essentially adding another term to the mix, I agree faction and guild could be interchanged, and my point (and a few others) is with a Realm, you can have factions. These factions (could be guilds) can fight each other, but their overarching enemy is the other realm(s).

    So my take is FvF and GvG are interchangeable and RvR (ad infinitum) is not. imo.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 753
    Hatefull said:
    Sovrath said:
    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    I don't think that's it. We never used the term "faction vs faction" in lineage 2.

    I think it's just another term for RvR.
    I agree, I heard GvG a lot back then...but times change...


    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    That's GvG, a completely separate system. Player created groups exists outside of the FvF and RvR system. 
    How is it separate? You are essentially adding another term to the mix, I agree faction and guild could be interchanged, and my point (and a few others) is with a Realm, you can have factions. These factions (could be guilds) can fight each other, but their overarching enemy is the other realm(s).

    So my take is FvF and GvG are interchangeable and RvR (ad infinitum) is not. imo.
    In MMO terms, a Faction is a hard coded organization that exists by default. It's run by the game developers or NPCs. A Guild/Clan/Muppet Theater is a player created organization. 
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,449
    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    That's GvG, a completely separate system. Player created groups exists outside of the FvF and RvR system. 
    Oh ?

    So, in your opinion, a guild is NOT a faction ?

    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    That's GvG, a completely separate system. Player created groups exists outside of the FvF and RvR system. 
    Oh ?

    So, in your opinion, a guild is NOT a faction ?

    Guilds can belong to a faction, but they are rarely 'factions' in of themselves.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 753
    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    That's GvG, a completely separate system. Player created groups exists outside of the FvF and RvR system. 
    Oh ?

    So, in your opinion, a guild is NOT a faction ?

    No, it's a completely different game mechanic.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Well, "faction vs faction" is the general term and can include player defined factions, meaning wars between guilds, or guild alliances.

    An example would be Lineage 2, which had castle sieges that happened between guild alliances.
    That's GvG, a completely separate system. Player created groups exists outside of the FvF and RvR system. 
    Oh ?

    So, in your opinion, a guild is NOT a faction ?

    No, it's a completely different game mechanic.
    An easy way to describe it would be;
    Realm : Country Alpha has 3 factions that vie for political dominance.
    Factions Bronze, Silver and Gold. Factions often being noble/aristocratic families and other organisations.
    each faction has a number of guilds that support them. :)

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,310
    It’s not an opinion thing... there is no debate here...

    Realms = servers
    RvR = server vs server

    Factions = horde, alliance, daggerfall, eboneheart, etc 


    IselincameltosisHatefull
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,396
    bcbully said:
    It’s not an opinion thing... there is no debate here...

    Realms = servers
    RvR = server vs server




    Considering the term was first used in DAoC and there it meant Albion vs. Midgard vs. Hibernia - all in the same server - you couldn't be more wrong.
    gervaise1MendelHatefull
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  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,639
    I know this is probably incorrect, but the way I always saw it was RvR was fighting for control over land whereas Faction vs Faction was just opposing factions.

    If we are talking the same overall outcome of two groups fighting, then it's just a different term for the same thing. 
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,384
    While Realm and Faction are semantically very similar, I think that in MMORPGs Realms were first represented as an inflexible decision made by the developers (in DAoC).  That seems to be pretty consistent, no matter if a Realm is a race, mythos, or servers (as in WoW).  Developers defined the division between the groups, and that is immutable.  The players choice of Realm is made only at the character creation screen.

    Factions are treated with a lot more variable.  Some games treat factions as player developed organizations, each organization capable of becoming a "side" in PvP conflict.  Other games use faction to represent fixed developer-defined distinctions within a community (EQ).  Players actions towards a Faction is mostly done in-game.



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  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,129
    There is literally no difference except what developers choose to call it.  Some call things factions and some realm.  Some call servers a realm.  It all depends on the game and developer chooses for terms.
    MMOExposed
  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,075
    edited September 2019
    The term faction is broader then realm. Realm is a place that is ruled. So Realm vs Realm could be nation vs nation or county vs county. Both can be seen as factions, so that also could be seen as faction vs faction.  But, different factions can also exist within a realm. So faction vs faction can mean within one nation or nation vs nation.

    And what you actually fight over is dependent on the lore of the game.
    There is literally no difference except what developers choose to call it.  Some call things factions and some realm.  Some call servers a realm.  It all depends on the game and developer chooses for terms.
    If it comes to what they fight over, it can be anything yes. But unlike faction, a realm is a specific land. Like duke vs duke within a larger nation ruled by a king, or nation vs nation. Realm has a more specific meaning then faction. So realm vs realm can be called faction vs faction. But faction vs faction cant always be called realm vs realm (in case of noble house wars or political sides etc).

    tl;dr : Realm can be called faction, but a faction can't always be called a realm.
    MMOExposed
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,892
    For me, "realm" has a certain "placeness" to it. A realm is the land and everything in the land.

    So, when I see a game advertising realm vs realm, I take it to mean that territory will be involved somehow, but more importantly I feel that realm vs realm is much more inclusive and not just limited to the pvpers. For example, if you have a proper player economy then crafters who make stuff for the pvpers would be contributing towards the realm. I also see it as less optional, basically because everything you do for your realm will, in some way, contribute towards the realm vs realm battle.

    Faction is limited to people, it's more transient in nature and more optional. Basically, just a bunch of people who want to bash on each other and it's your own choice whether you want to be one of those people or not, with no consequences to your choice.



    Using this, something like WoW is clearly faction v faction, because only the PvPers are able to get involved and they have to opt in. Everyone elses actions are completely inconsequential. Server v Server like GW2 is just factions, because it's lacking the "placeness" and, again, it's only the pvpers who have any impact. WAR was originally RvR because you needed a joint effort between PvPers and PvEers in order to take zones, but when they removed that feature it dropped back to just being FvF.
    Gorwe
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,598
    To me faction versus faction is an umbrella term. Itt can be realms it could be races... Maybe even large Guild versus large Guild.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
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