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Why I'm super annoyed with SBS...

AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 441
I'm posting this here because the white knights don't come here and shoot it down,and hell you never know maybe someone from SBS will actually read this.

So, as some people know I have a Kickstarter baron pack, I did this to support a game that I believed in, I also fully intend to give said title away within the first few months of the game to focus on my militaristic goals.

So I bought I title, said title was supposed to be a baron (mayor) and come with a town, so said Kickstarter rewards and so did my inventory.

But now I am being told there won't be enough towns for all the barons (as some are locked for ai counts). So we now have to take a hamlet (no leader) or village (become a village elder). None of which is what level I backed at.

So what does SBS do to ease the issues being faced by barons?
Admit their mistake and try to resolve the issue fairly?
Maybe reward them with exposition points for choosing a smaller settlement that they can use to upgrade with?

No, what they do is offer all barons the chance for a limited upgrade to count for the small sum of $375. 

Seems the "harbingers" have been right all along this is nothing but a cash grab...
 
KyleranGdemamiVrikaSlapshot1188kenguru23MendelAsm0deusKumaponScottweedledumb99
«13

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,555
    edited August 26
    This post deleted (for now) in light of additional info I found on the COE forums.


    Post edited by Kyleran on

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,687
    ...welcome back to your cozy echo chamber.
    DerryFHalkarionlogKumaponOzmodan
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,940
    edited August 26
    Gdemami said:
    ...welcome back to your cozy echo chamber.
    Did you have an actual comment on the situation described in the post? Do you disagree with the situation OldGuy described?  Is it factually incorrect?  

    As for the OP... How has Caspien explained this as being acceptable?  Has anyone from SBS made an official statement?

    GdemamiOzmodantweedledumb99

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,555
    edited August 26
    As with most mechanics in COE, this situation is conmplicated to the point I struggle to comprehend what's really going on.

    I think one has to first read Snipehunter's thread on what purchasing a Mayor package really grants a backer.

    While it gives the right to rule it did not guarentee a specific size town it seems.

    TLDR: "In other words, it was never our intention that the mayor title in your inventory would explicitly apply only to towns."

    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32570/mayor-packages-explained

    There's another thread on the COE forums which seems to further explain the logic behind the overall process and states players may incorrectly perceive this Count upgrade sale as a cash grab, which appears to be the case.

    It also proposes a few potential solutions to reduce the burn some mayors are currently feeling.

    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32646/policy-restricting-mayors-from-selecting-some-towns


    Post edited by Kyleran on
    Gdemamibcbully

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,225
    -->No, what they do is offer all barons the chance for a limited upgrade to count for the small sum of $375.


    Surprise surprise. Do they offer refunds because that would be the path I would take.

    GdemamiSpottyGekkoStaalBurgher
  • RagemasterRagemaster Member UncommonPosts: 129
    Can't blame them for cash grabbing I mean to be fair they have almost nothing to show for their years in development aside from a few shiney's on the discord every Thursday. I am annoyed at SBS for a lack of visible progress and big words from Caspian on how they were going to be the storm in 2019, after massivelyop.com gave them the Most stormiest future award / demerit for yearly awards at the turn of 2019. I backed at the level just before mayor, more so for alpha 2 access then the in-game rewards. Sooner I can play something the better imo.
    GdemamiOzmodan
  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 201
    Kyleran said:
    As with most mechanics in COE, this situation is conmplicated to the point I struggle to comprehend what's really going on.




    You can read my super long post in the Snipehunter thread to see how this is nothing more than a bait and switch. I'm only surprised that the community at large isn't kicking up a fuss about this. It that because most active backers are so high on the IP, that they will be getting towns? Who knows. 

    Of course so many things have changed. I'm 90% sure the map has been decrease in size two separate times. Which no doubt isn't helping the position we now find ourselves in.

    The fact so many people seem to be buying this count upgrade.. that's a wow moment. I should have looked at the funding money they had before this point. Yet so many people are getting it so they can simply pick a town and have little interest in being count. Adding insult to injury. All these mayors, now counts, still have to wait until their time in mayor week before picking. So all the best counties will be gone anyway.
    GdemamiAnOldFartDerryFHAsm0deusKyleran
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 441
    Kyleran said:
    As with most mechanics in COE, this situation is conmplicated to the point I struggle to comprehend what's really going on.

    I think one has to first read Snipehunter's thread on what purchasing a Mayor package really grants a backer.

    While it gives the right to rule it did not guarentee a specific size town it seems.

    TLDR: "In other words, it was never our intention that the mayor title in your inventory would explicitly apply only to towns."

    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32570/mayor-packages-explained

    There's another thread on the COE forums which seems to further explain the logic behind the overall process and states players may incorrectly perceive this Count upgrade sale as a cash grab, which appears to be the case.

    It also proposes a few potential solutions to reduce the burn some mayors are currently feeling.

    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32646/policy-restricting-mayors-from-selecting-some-towns


    He does explain it, and in explaining it counters all the claims that have been made before.
    It's another set of promises that SBS have broken.
    I think the best line from snipe is this:

    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32570/mayor-packages-explained#post361874

    But check out the wording on the Kickstarter baron package.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulboundstudios/chronicles-of-elyria-epic-story-mmorpg-with-aging/rewards

    Torrsk said:
    Kyleran said:
    As with most mechanics in COE, this situation is conmplicated to the point I struggle to comprehend what's really going on.




    You can read my super long post in the Snipehunter thread to see how this is nothing more than a bait and switch. I'm only surprised that the community at large isn't kicking up a fuss about this. It that because most active backers are so high on the IP, that they will be getting towns? Who knows. 

    Of course so many things have changed. I'm 90% sure the map has been decrease in size two separate times. Which no doubt isn't helping the position we now find ourselves in.

    The fact so many people seem to be buying this count upgrade.. that's a wow moment. I should have looked at the funding money they had before this point. Yet so many people are getting it so they can simply pick a town and have little interest in being count. Adding insult to injury. All these mayors, now counts, still have to wait until their time in mayor week before picking. So all the best counties will be gone anyway.
    Not sure which one you are, I also made some lengthy posts about this.
    The best reply is 

    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32570/mayor-packages-explained?page=5#post362659

    Although he was soon shut down
    Gdemami
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,176
    Hmmm.  Accept money from customers for specific items (an in-game town).  Not develop enough items to meet the already accounted for demand.  Try to upsell those impacted by this shortage.

    So, SBS managed to create a fictional land insufficient to meet their known obligations.  They were worried about water tables and stone reserves instead.  If that doesn't say CoE in a nutshell, I don't know what does.

    @AnOldFart, you have rights as a customer.  I think you could disrupt their applecart with a highly viable lawsuit for consumer fraud.  They knew how many towns they needed to build to match the money they had already collected and didn't create these pre-sold assets.  It should fall under a broad "bait and switch" category, if not a direct charge of "consumer fraud".  You have hard damages (the amount you paid) plus soft damages (consternation, angst, etc. over this circus).

    Up to you to pursue this or not.  They way this company treated you is/was wrong.  My sympathies, sir.



    GdemamiSlapshot1188AnOldFartOzmodanbcbullyOrangeBoyOG_Zorvan

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member RarePosts: 2,640
    can't you get the money back since they are not delivering what was bought?
    Gdemami
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,213
    can't you get the money back since they are not delivering what was bought?


    This is what I'm wondering.

    Trying to read into this is kind of difficult as CoE has quite a history of problems. But it seems like they are stating the wording of the tier wasn't specific to what size of land you get, so they are using that as a loophole? That sounds pretty scummy. 
    GdemamiSlapshot1188Asm0deus
  • Nubz_UniteNubz_Unite Member UncommonPosts: 24
    I see both sides of the argument, but I'm going to side with SBS on this one I mean the server population can't even sustain all those towns. I'm fairly certain this was them simply using terminology to define the land without having specifically designated names or sizes to the layers of stuff. On top of that if you guys took off the horse blinders and read the second word of the package town/stronghold that would mean that you guys actually thought that every mayor was also potentially guaranteed a 150 total population military settlement.
    bcbully
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,527
    It's all plainly spelled out in Caspien's posts:

    "We’re in Italy.  The guy on the top bunk has got to make the guy on the bottom bunk, he’s gotta make his bed all the time.  See, it’s in the regulations.  If we were in Germany, I would have to make yours.  But we’re in Italy, so you’ve gotta make mine.  It’s regulations."
    Slapshot1188

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  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,800
    Another MMO scam. I have a feeling this game will end in class action lawsuits.
    GdemamiAmatheMendelOzmodan


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,940
    edited August 26
    I see both sides of the argument, but I'm going to side with SBS on this one I mean the server population can't even sustain all those towns. I'm fairly certain this was them simply using terminology to define the land without having specifically designated names or sizes to the layers of stuff. On top of that if you guys took off the horse blinders and read the second word of the package town/stronghold that would mean that you guys actually thought that every mayor was also potentially guaranteed a 150 total population military settlement.
    I would expect to be able to have a town OR a stronghold. Depending on when I picked and what I wanted.  Who could take town/stronghold as meaning neither a town or stronghold?

    As fir that resulting in too many towns for the game to support that’s squarely on Caspien for selling too many packages than his world can support.

    Wait.. the “Storm” is going to grow.  This is simple stuff.  Wait until the actual game mechanics come into play and don’t match the “all things to all people” story that Caspuen has sold.
    GdemamiAnOldFartMendelKyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 441
    I might have a lawsuit but if I'm honest I can't afford the time and especially the money bringing one.

    @Nubz_Unite they defined the meaning of town in a DJ whilst the ks was halfway through they were still selling the package. It was the same size as the current towns on the dss map. It's ended up being a con 100%
    Slapshot1188Asm0deusMendelGdemamiKyleran
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 2,913
    edited August 26
    Color me unsurprised, another bait and switch con and more to come for sure.  lmao

    This game always reminds me of Illfonics and Revival..lol


    GdemamiSpottyGekko

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

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  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,176
    Other than an actual lawsuit, you could try some less expensive things, like lodging a complaint with the BBB.  If there is a consumer fraud /consumer advocate in your area, they might be able to help get your money back, if that is what you want.  TV and radio stations often have dedicated reporters looking for these types of things all the time.  It's not like a TV or radio station would not want some more rating.  Your dealings with SBS are certainly interesting enough to attract some help from them.

    I'd bet that SBS might even accept a phone call from a reporter.



    GdemamiSpottyGekko

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,940
    AnOldFart said:
    I might have a lawsuit but if I'm honest I can't afford the time and especially the money bringing one.

    @Nubz_Unite they defined the meaning of town in a DJ whilst the ks was halfway through they were still selling the package. It was the same size as the current towns on the dss map. It's ended up being a con 100%
    Yeah a lawsuit is probably not a winning move.  Credit Card refund for non delivery of product might be possible but may not be worth the hassle.   Personally I would just stick around and annoy the fuck out of Caspien by presenting him with his own words.
    GdemamiAsm0deusKyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 441
    AnOldFart said:
    I might have a lawsuit but if I'm honest I can't afford the time and especially the money bringing one.

    @Nubz_Unite they defined the meaning of town in a DJ whilst the ks was halfway through they were still selling the package. It was the same size as the current towns on the dss map. It's ended up being a con 100%
    Yeah a lawsuit is probably not a winning move.  Credit Card refund for non delivery of product might be possible but may not be worth the hassle.   Personally I would just stick around and annoy the fuck out of Caspien by presenting him with his own words.
    Tbh I had written the money off from the get go so this sounds like the most likely thing I will do.
    Sucks but that's the risk of a kickstarter
    GdemamijimmywolfKyleran
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,470
    If Caspien is not a con man, he is darn close to one.  Just amazes me how many people fall for these scams because this game is truely one of them.  

    When they first announced this game I was extremely skeptical and as the game scope grew it became comical.  At this point, whining because you are not getting what you paid for, for a nonexistent game is rather pointless.  The chances of this game ever releasing as it proposed is nil.
    MendelGdemami
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,303
    Well sir,here is a little tidbit i would HOPE goes through people's minds before handing over money to a game developer.
    If the developer themselves don't believe in their own game enough to put their own life on the line,then why on earth would anyone be naive enough to trust in the game?

    These devs are real quick to take YOUR money,heck it doesn't take any effort at all to take your money and guess what,there is no risk at all taking your money.
    Here is the real kick in the face of stupidity....
    The devs and their lawyers are smart enough to label these as "donations"you are not purchasing anything,you are not entitles to anything,you are basically handing money over to someone on the street you don't even know.
    The MOST money ....EVER crowd funded is Star Citizen,does that game look like a 200-300 million dollar game?LMAO....HELL NO ,it looks barely like an Indie game.So why do so many continue to hand over money to mickey mouse developers?

    I will repeat...REAL developers can get their own money.
    Mendel

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    Moral of the story, buy into pipe dreams, expect nightmares.
    kenguru23DerryFHOG_Zorvan

    "People worry about kids playing with guns, or watching violent videos...
    That some sort of culture of violence will take them over.
    Nobody worries about kids listening to thousands - literally, thousands of songs
    About heartbreak, rejection...pain, misery and loss. Did I listen to pop music
    Because I was miserable... or was I miserable because I listened to pop music?"

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,896
    Ozmodan said:
    If Caspien is not a con man, he is darn close to one.  Just amazes me how many people fall for these scams because this game is truely one of them.  

    ...
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", or in this case, ineptitude and lack of experience.
    kenguru23Slapshot1188Gdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,762
    It boggles my mind that anyone thought an unproven nobody with a grandiose dream could pull this off.
    kenguru23Gdemami
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
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