Why I'm super annoyed with SBS...

AnOldFart

I'm posting this here because the white knights don't come here and shoot it down,and hell you never know maybe someone from SBS will actually read this.

So, as some people know I have a Kickstarter baron pack, I did this to support a game that I believed in, I also fully intend to give said title away within the first few months of the game to focus on my militaristic goals.

So I bought I title, said title was supposed to be a baron (mayor) and come with a town, so said Kickstarter rewards and so did my inventory.

But now I am being told there won't be enough towns for all the barons (as some are locked for ai counts). So we now have to take a hamlet (no leader) or village (become a village elder). None of which is what level I backed at.

So what does SBS do to ease the issues being faced by barons?
Admit their mistake and try to resolve the issue fairly?
Maybe reward them with exposition points for choosing a smaller settlement that they can use to upgrade with?

No, what they do is offer all barons the chance for a limited upgrade to count for the small sum of $375. 

Seems the "harbingers" have been right all along this is nothing but a cash grab...
 

Kyleran

This post deleted (for now) in light of additional info I found on the COE forums.

Gdemami

...welcome back to your cozy echo chamber.

Slapshot1188

Gdemami said:

...welcome back to your cozy echo chamber.

Did you have an actual comment on the situation described in the post? Do you disagree with the situation OldGuy described?  Is it factually incorrect?  

As for the OP... How has Caspien explained this as being acceptable?  Has anyone from SBS made an official statement?

Kyleran

As with most mechanics in COE, this situation is conmplicated to the point I struggle to comprehend what's really going on.

I think one has to first read Snipehunter's thread on what purchasing a Mayor package really grants a backer.

While it gives the right to rule it did not guarentee a specific size town it seems.

TLDR: "In other words, it was never our intention that the mayor title in your inventory would explicitly apply only to towns."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32570/mayor-packages-explained

There's another thread on the COE forums which seems to further explain the logic behind the overall process and states players may incorrectly perceive this Count upgrade sale as a cash grab, which appears to be the case.

It also proposes a few potential solutions to reduce the burn some mayors are currently feeling.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32646/policy-restricting-mayors-from-selecting-some-towns

rpmcmurphy

-->No, what they do is offer all barons the chance for a limited upgrade to count for the small sum of $375.

Surprise surprise. Do they offer refunds because that would be the path I would take.

Ragemaster

Can't blame them for cash grabbing I mean to be fair they have almost nothing to show for their years in development aside from a few shiney's on the discord every Thursday. I am annoyed at SBS for a lack of visible progress and big words from Caspian on how they were going to be the storm in 2019, after massivelyop.com gave them the Most stormiest future award / demerit for yearly awards at the turn of 2019. I backed at the level just before mayor, more so for alpha 2 access then the in-game rewards. Sooner I can play something the better imo.

Torrsk

Kyleran said:

As with most mechanics in COE, this situation is conmplicated to the point I struggle to comprehend what's really going on.

You can read my super long post in the Snipehunter thread to see how this is nothing more than a bait and switch. I'm only surprised that the community at large isn't kicking up a fuss about this. It that because most active backers are so high on the IP, that they will be getting towns? Who knows. 

Of course so many things have changed. I'm 90% sure the map has been decrease in size two separate times. Which no doubt isn't helping the position we now find ourselves in.

The fact so many people seem to be buying this count upgrade.. that's a wow moment. I should have looked at the funding money they had before this point. Yet so many people are getting it so they can simply pick a town and have little interest in being count. Adding insult to injury. All these mayors, now counts, still have to wait until their time in mayor week before picking. So all the best counties will be gone anyway.

AnOldFart

Kyleran said:

As with most mechanics in COE, this situation is conmplicated to the point I struggle to comprehend what's really going on.

I think one has to first read Snipehunter's thread on what purchasing a Mayor package really grants a backer.

While it gives the right to rule it did not guarentee a specific size town it seems.

TLDR: "In other words, it was never our intention that the mayor title in your inventory would explicitly apply only to towns."

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32570/mayor-packages-explained

There's another thread on the COE forums which seems to further explain the logic behind the overall process and states players may incorrectly perceive this Count upgrade sale as a cash grab, which appears to be the case.

It also proposes a few potential solutions to reduce the burn some mayors are currently feeling.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32646/policy-restricting-mayors-from-selecting-some-towns

He does explain it, and in explaining it counters all the claims that have been made before.
It's another set of promises that SBS have broken.
I think the best line from snipe is this:

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32570/mayor-packages-explained#post361874

But check out the wording on the Kickstarter baron package.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulboundstudios/chronicles-of-elyria-epic-story-mmorpg-with-aging/rewards

Torrsk said:

Kyleran said:

As with most mechanics in COE, this situation is conmplicated to the point I struggle to comprehend what's really going on.

You can read my super long post in the Snipehunter thread to see how this is nothing more than a bait and switch. I'm only surprised that the community at large isn't kicking up a fuss about this. It that because most active backers are so high on the IP, that they will be getting towns? Who knows. 

Of course so many things have changed. I'm 90% sure the map has been decrease in size two separate times. Which no doubt isn't helping the position we now find ourselves in.

The fact so many people seem to be buying this count upgrade.. that's a wow moment. I should have looked at the funding money they had before this point. Yet so many people are getting it so they can simply pick a town and have little interest in being count. Adding insult to injury. All these mayors, now counts, still have to wait until their time in mayor week before picking. So all the best counties will be gone anyway.

Not sure which one you are, I also made some lengthy posts about this.
The best reply is 

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/32570/mayor-packages-explained?page=5#post362659

Although he was soon shut down

Mendel

Hmmm.  Accept money from customers for specific items (an in-game town).  Not develop enough items to meet the already accounted for demand.  Try to upsell those impacted by this shortage.

So, SBS managed to create a fictional land insufficient to meet their known obligations.  They were worried about water tables and stone reserves instead.  If that doesn't say CoE in a nutshell, I don't know what does.

@AnOldFart, you have rights as a customer.  I think you could disrupt their applecart with a highly viable lawsuit for consumer fraud.  They knew how many towns they needed to build to match the money they had already collected and didn't create these pre-sold assets.  It should fall under a broad "bait and switch" category, if not a direct charge of "consumer fraud".  You have hard damages (the amount you paid) plus soft damages (consternation, angst, etc. over this circus).

Up to you to pursue this or not.  They way this company treated you is/was wrong.  My sympathies, sir.

alkarionlog

can't you get the money back since they are not delivering what was bought?

Panther2103

alkarionlog said:

can't you get the money back since they are not delivering what was bought?

This is what I'm wondering.

Trying to read into this is kind of difficult as CoE has quite a history of problems. But it seems like they are stating the wording of the tier wasn't specific to what size of land you get, so they are using that as a loophole? That sounds pretty scummy. 

Nubz_Unite

I see both sides of the argument, but I'm going to side with SBS on this one I mean the server population can't even sustain all those towns. I'm fairly certain this was them simply using terminology to define the land without having specifically designated names or sizes to the layers of stuff. On top of that if you guys took off the horse blinders and read the second word of the package town/stronghold that would mean that you guys actually thought that every mayor was also potentially guaranteed a 150 total population military settlement.

Amathe

It's all plainly spelled out in Caspien's posts:

"We’re in Italy.  The guy on the top bunk has got to make the guy on the bottom bunk, he’s gotta make his bed all the time.  See, it’s in the regulations.  If we were in Germany, I would have to make yours.  But we’re in Italy, so you’ve gotta make mine.  It’s regulations."

Tiller

Another MMO scam. I have a feeling this game will end in class action lawsuits.

Slapshot1188

Nubz_Unite said:

I see both sides of the argument, but I'm going to side with SBS on this one I mean the server population can't even sustain all those towns. I'm fairly certain this was them simply using terminology to define the land without having specifically designated names or sizes to the layers of stuff. On top of that if you guys took off the horse blinders and read the second word of the package town/stronghold that would mean that you guys actually thought that every mayor was also potentially guaranteed a 150 total population military settlement.

I would expect to be able to have a town OR a stronghold. Depending on when I picked and what I wanted.  Who could take town/stronghold as meaning neither a town or stronghold?

As fir that resulting in too many towns for the game to support that’s squarely on Caspien for selling too many packages than his world can support.

Wait.. the “Storm” is going to grow.  This is simple stuff.  Wait until the actual game mechanics come into play and don’t match the “all things to all people” story that Caspuen has sold.

AnOldFart

I might have a lawsuit but if I'm honest I can't afford the time and especially the money bringing one.

@Nubz_Unite they defined the meaning of town in a DJ whilst the ks was halfway through they were still selling the package. It was the same size as the current towns on the dss map. It's ended up being a con 100%

Asm0deus

Color me unsurprised, another bait and switch con and more to come for sure.  lmao

This game always reminds me of Illfonics and Revival..lol

Mendel

Other than an actual lawsuit, you could try some less expensive things, like lodging a complaint with the BBB.  If there is a consumer fraud /consumer advocate in your area, they might be able to help get your money back, if that is what you want.  TV and radio stations often have dedicated reporters looking for these types of things all the time.  It's not like a TV or radio station would not want some more rating.  Your dealings with SBS are certainly interesting enough to attract some help from them.

I'd bet that SBS might even accept a phone call from a reporter.

Slapshot1188

AnOldFart said:

I might have a lawsuit but if I'm honest I can't afford the time and especially the money bringing one.

@Nubz_Unite they defined the meaning of town in a DJ whilst the ks was halfway through they were still selling the package. It was the same size as the current towns on the dss map. It's ended up being a con 100%

Yeah a lawsuit is probably not a winning move.  Credit Card refund for non delivery of product might be possible but may not be worth the hassle.   Personally I would just stick around and annoy the fuck out of Caspien by presenting him with his own words.

AnOldFart

Slapshot1188 said:

AnOldFart said:

I might have a lawsuit but if I'm honest I can't afford the time and especially the money bringing one.

@Nubz_Unite they defined the meaning of town in a DJ whilst the ks was halfway through they were still selling the package. It was the same size as the current towns on the dss map. It's ended up being a con 100%

Yeah a lawsuit is probably not a winning move.  Credit Card refund for non delivery of product might be possible but may not be worth the hassle.   Personally I would just stick around and annoy the fuck out of Caspien by presenting him with his own words.

Tbh I had written the money off from the get go so this sounds like the most likely thing I will do.
Sucks but that's the risk of a kickstarter

Ozmodan

If Caspien is not a con man, he is darn close to one.  Just amazes me how many people fall for these scams because this game is truely one of them.  

When they first announced this game I was extremely skeptical and as the game scope grew it became comical.  At this point, whining because you are not getting what you paid for, for a nonexistent game is rather pointless.  The chances of this game ever releasing as it proposed is nil.

Wizardry

Well sir,here is a little tidbit i would HOPE goes through people's minds before handing over money to a game developer.

If the developer themselves don't believe in their own game enough to put their own life on the line,then why on earth would anyone be naive enough to trust in the game?

These devs are real quick to take YOUR money,heck it doesn't take any effort at all to take your money and guess what,there is no risk at all taking your money.

Here is the real kick in the face of stupidity....

The devs and their lawyers are smart enough to label these as "donations"you are not purchasing anything,you are not entitles to anything,you are basically handing money over to someone on the street you don't even know.

The MOST money ....EVER crowd funded is Star Citizen,does that game look like a 200-300 million dollar game?LMAO....HELL NO ,it looks barely like an Indie game.So why do so many continue to hand over money to mickey mouse developers?

I will repeat...REAL developers can get their own money.

SpottyGekko

Ozmodan said:

If Caspien is not a con man, he is darn close to one.  Just amazes me how many people fall for these scams because this game is truely one of them.  

...

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", or in this case, ineptitude and lack of experience.

Iselin

It boggles my mind that anyone thought an unproven nobody with a grandiose dream could pull this off.

Mendel

SpottyGekko said:

Ozmodan said:

If Caspien is not a con man, he is darn close to one.  Just amazes me how many people fall for these scams because this game is truely one of them.  

...

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", or in this case, ineptitude and lack of experience.

Love Hanlon's Razor, so apt in this case.  I would have amended it to say "gross stupidity" when referring to SBS and its illustrious leader.