I have never given a game developer any money up front,never given a Twitch streamer any money and never will. I don't like freeloaders,people that think they have earned some money coming their way.
I am not going to babysit people,they have to think for themselves even though MOST cannot do it. Before SC was even a pipe dream i had stated that trying to make a space type game in this era will never work,we are not ready to make a solid space game yet. Without repeating myself over and over,it simply takes way too much work/effort to pull off a AAA space game,WAY harder than a single world Fantasy game,like about 3-5x harder.
So if we were to agree that a AAA mmorpg takes about 6-7 years,how long would a AAA space game take,yep TOO LONG.We need faster tech/modules templates to help speed up development,otherwise all we will ever get is single A/Indie type space games,i have yet to see a AA space game,that is how far away we are.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'm thinking for Star Citizens we're going to need a new vernacular, perhaps "drunk loss fallacy" which is sort of like waking up the next morning after a drunken bender and recoiling in horror at what you've found sleeping in the bed with you.
Err, not that it's ever happened to me or anything....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For games like Star Citizen, there's also the "grass in greener on the other side" -fallacy.
People always overestimate things that they eagerly want to do. The crowdfunding business, and to large extend early access games business, takes advantage of this by selling us a future that we overestimate instead of the present that we'd be able to judge more accurately.
For games like Star Citizen, there's also the "grass in greener on the other side" -fallacy.
People always overestimate things that they eagerly want to do. The crowdfunding business, and to large extend early access games business, takes advantage of this by selling us a future that we overestimate instead of the present that we'd be able to judge more accurately.
Don't think the entire $200M+ raised though will cover a single year's salary for Activision-Blizzard and EA's C-level salaries. Maybe just I haven't checked exactly but since at least one is over $40M ......
For games like Star Citizen, there's also the "grass in greener on the other side" -fallacy.
People always overestimate things that they eagerly want to do. The crowdfunding business, and to large extend early access games business, takes advantage of this by selling us a future that we overestimate instead of the present that we'd be able to judge more accurately.
Don't think the entire $200M+ raised though will cover a single year's salary for Activision-Blizzard and EA's C-level salaries. Maybe just I haven't checked exactly but since at least one is over $40M ......
Puts things into perspective!
You're trying to put things into perspective by posting unrelated matters?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
a failure in reasoning which renders an argument invalid.
Fallacy means that the argument is bad or invalid, not that the premise does not exists.
I put the definition there, not a personal comprehensive version of the word.
You put the definition but you're misunderstand the logic.
Sunk costs mean the investment you have already made. In Star Citizen's case it's the game and the ships you have bought.
Sunk costs fallacy means you'd make a failure in reasoning because you are invested in Star Citizen. It does not mean your Star Citizen ships would cease to exists if you use bad logic.
I have sunk my cost by having played the game as it progressed and progresses for many hours now doing all sorts of things.
I have had fun with many unfinished games as SC is one (what has been quite the trend in the industry for quite the years already), and I think everyone buys games for entertainment so if the unfinished game is capable to provide me with that, then for me there is no "sunken cost", I haven't lost any money.
I think I have felt I lost money more times when I bought finished games than unfinished ones O_o
I'm still trying to figure out if the whole taking a crap in space was an actual mechanic.
Was not really, it's just as part of what SC is stuff is interactable and has to make sense, hence a toilet to be interacted with will have animation/etc, if I am correct there is some simple stuff that requires you to say take a shower or you'll look dirty over time, eat, etc... It's superficial stuff.
The whole reason I bought into SC was taken out of the game.
They still don't have their core engine sorted at this point. Many of the game mechanics that they are selling the game on, do not exist all these years later.
People are waiting on the information in regards to the, for example:
>ship they purchased 5 years ago not being in game
>or game mechanics such as spindles, ship modules, hiring NPCs as crew memebers, etc
>data running
>gas harvesting
>repairing your own ship
>loading cargo instead of using magic
>they haven't finished even 1 of the 100 systems they sold the game to having
Instead we are showed production videos of water in drinking glass physics, space toilets, and webcasts discussing possible colors of fire.
>Ironman 3 released when Star Citizen went into development.
>They had to end refunds (if it's so good then why?).
Some people believe this will never release. Some believe that it will release as a Minimum Viable Product, others believe that this game tech is being developed in modules so the tech easier to sell off pieces at a time.
>The rate of new backers has slowed down.
>The rate of funding has slowed down.
>A private investor bought part of the company.
All of these examples are legitimate and have gone unanswered for the individual backer. At some point, people are going to say, "wait a minute".
You can't hold that against people. It's not their fault.
The solution is to tell CIG to do something about it. But, as we all know, the "fans" attack anyone not blindly praising CIG. Which is another turn-off to some of us.
Slowing down? Past years the first half of the year went as low as under a million for a month, this year only 1 month is under 2 million with 1.7million and multiple over 3million a month in funding. It likely is one of the best if not the best first half year in funding for the company.
The solution is to tell CIG to do something about it. But, as we all know, the "fans" attack anyone not blindly praising CIG. Which is another turn-off to some of us.
This is such typical hater hypebole, the community very much calls CIG out when they feel stuff is wrong, and usually force reactions from their side, this has happened many times. A community you are not apart of because you isolated yourself into a corner with your type of narrative that is obviously not accepted neither there, neither or any MMO community I have participated, the word for it is just hater, your post history shows it. Just in it for the confrontation.
Alphas tend to be all over the place and often what is pitched seldom gets delivered that way but a lot of the things I was looking forward to have also been taken out or put on a back burner. So I just leave it alone until the dust settles and the bugs get taken more seriously.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
MisterZebub said: All we can do is wait and see. But for now, the money keeps pouring in and Chris Roberts hasn't exploded. So the potential for an epic game to be delivered is also still there.
Or we get a game that takes so long to develop that in order to stay cutting edge and relevant they have to reboot development of the game multiple times over, dropping it into dev hell until someone finally gives up and pushes it out the door to sit next to Duke Nukem Forever.
Red Dead Redemption took 8 years to develop and it had no problem "staying cutting edge" tbh.
Game Engines, Graphics, Lightning, Sound etc can always be constantly pushed when you have the right engine. It's the game system mechanics that need to be complex, broad and dynamic enough to accommodate future gameplay updates.
If you rush a game without the much needed foundations and infrastructure to accommodate future iterations that can push the gameplay forward you end up with dead'end games like EvE or Elite Dangerous. As much as they try to expand the gameplay is stuck due to the core engine capabilities.
That's one of the reasons Star Citizen is so popular, it provides a kind of gameplay that scratches that special itch that no other game seems to be able to get even near.
I realized a possible problem when the creative directive is also the CEO. CR is more creative director than CEO so there's really no one to help him focus on putting out a project without constantly reworking it. Other than a mass fan uprising or the press in general getting on him about it. CR is in heaven at this point. Offices all over the world which are comparable to AAA studios that have been putting out games for many years. He wakes up with a new idea and no one will stop him from stopping other projects to get the latest ones started.
The moment I realized that was when they did a video on the making of presentations during a convention. Chris wanted to do two big things but his team all agreed it required too much man power and there was too little time left. Chris wanted to try it for one more day but his team were like, no way, not enough help. So he relented but it wasn't easy to get him to do it.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I don't see that as a problem but as a virtue. There's a whole industry following rules of "engagement" to reach a end product that mostly focus on satisfying sharehold investors who in the end don't even play the game, they are just in it for the money.
I'm glad that Chris and Star Citizen are doing it all "wrong" and pushing for the "impossible". If it would be any other way I wouldn't have backed, I would have waited just like I do for any other "normal" game.
I dunno how is that so hard to understand, One of Star Citizen greatest appeals is reaching for the stars, not conforming to the "sensible", being ambitious.
It's one of the very reasons Star Citizen keeps getting money from thousands of gamers, because it keeps delivering on the promise of pushing forward what space sim and sci-fi aficionados want to play in a video-game. It's quite simple, like any product or commodity if it provides a good experience and there's a market for it people will keep coming back for more and spending money on it. They will only change if there's a better alternative to get their "fix".
Yet, 7 years and nothing comes close.
Like I've said, if it was easy a big publisher with more money, manpower and experience would have done it by now
But it hasn't, so here we are, enjoying the best space sim game while it openly develops
Comments
I don't like freeloaders,people that think they have earned some money coming their way.
I am not going to babysit people,they have to think for themselves even though MOST cannot do it.
Before SC was even a pipe dream i had stated that trying to make a space type game in this era will never work,we are not ready to make a solid space game yet.
Without repeating myself over and over,it simply takes way too much work/effort to pull off a AAA space game,WAY harder than a single world Fantasy game,like about 3-5x harder.
So if we were to agree that a AAA mmorpg takes about 6-7 years,how long would a AAA space game take,yep TOO LONG.We need faster tech/modules templates to help speed up development,otherwise all we will ever get is single A/Indie type space games,i have yet to see a AA space game,that is how far away we are.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Err, not that it's ever happened to me or anything....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
People always overestimate things that they eagerly want to do. The crowdfunding business, and to large extend early access games business, takes advantage of this by selling us a future that we overestimate instead of the present that we'd be able to judge more accurately.
Puts things into perspective!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
https://www.behavioraleconomics.com/resources/mini-encyclopedia-of-be/sunk-cost-fallacy/
Sunk costs mean the investment you have already made. In Star Citizen's case it's the game and the ships you have bought.
Sunk costs fallacy means you'd make a failure in reasoning because you are invested in Star Citizen. It does not mean your Star Citizen ships would cease to exists if you use bad logic.
I have had fun with many unfinished games as SC is one (what has been quite the trend in the industry for quite the years already), and I think everyone buys games for entertainment so if the unfinished game is capable to provide me with that, then for me there is no "sunken cost", I haven't lost any money.
I think I have felt I lost money more times when I bought finished games than unfinished ones O_o
Was not really, it's just as part of what SC is stuff is interactable and has to make sense, hence a toilet to be interacted with will have animation/etc, if I am correct there is some simple stuff that requires you to say take a shower or you'll look dirty over time, eat, etc... It's superficial stuff.
The whole reason I bought into SC was taken out of the game.
They still don't have their core engine sorted at this point. Many of the game mechanics that they are selling the game on, do not exist all these years later.
People are waiting on the information in regards to the, for example:
>ship they purchased 5 years ago not being in game
>or game mechanics such as spindles, ship modules, hiring NPCs as crew memebers, etc
>data running
>gas harvesting
>repairing your own ship
>loading cargo instead of using magic
>they haven't finished even 1 of the 100 systems they sold the game to having
Instead we are showed production videos of water in drinking glass physics, space toilets, and webcasts discussing possible colors of fire.
>Ironman 3 released when Star Citizen went into development.
>They had to end refunds (if it's so good then why?).
Some people believe this will never release. Some believe that it will release as a Minimum Viable Product, others believe that this game tech is being developed in modules so the tech easier to sell off pieces at a time.
>The rate of new backers has slowed down.
>The rate of funding has slowed down.
>A private investor bought part of the company.
All of these examples are legitimate and have gone unanswered for the individual backer. At some point, people are going to say, "wait a minute".
You can't hold that against people. It's not their fault.
The solution is to tell CIG to do something about it. But, as we all know, the "fans" attack anyone not blindly praising CIG. Which is another turn-off to some of us.
Slowing down? Past years the first half of the year went as low as under a million for a month, this year only 1 month is under 2 million with 1.7million and multiple over 3million a month in funding. It likely is one of the best if not the best first half year in funding for the company.
This is such typical hater hypebole, the community very much calls CIG out when they feel stuff is wrong, and usually force reactions from their side, this has happened many times. A community you are not apart of because you isolated yourself into a corner with your type of narrative that is obviously not accepted neither there, neither or any MMO community I have participated, the word for it is just hater, your post history shows it. Just in it for the confrontation.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The moment I realized that was when they did a video on the making of presentations during a convention. Chris wanted to do two big things but his team all agreed it required too much man power and there was too little time left. Chris wanted to try it for one more day but his team were like, no way, not enough help. So he relented but it wasn't easy to get him to do it.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey