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Still Not in Alpha

AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,527
After reading the August newsletter, I confess I became a little frustrated at the pace of development. Who knows how many pre-Alphas there are going to be. I sort of picture myself a skeleton in front of my monitor as Pantheon enters pre-Alpha 9022. 

It looks like there is a restless native or two on the official Pantheon boards as well:

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/11000/pantheon-never-to-be-released/view/page/1

That got me thinking, how long has this game been in development? I went looking and found this interesting video on that very topic (short version, since 2013 or 2015, depending on what and how you count):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg9nmxH30cM&vl=en

There is a lot to think about in that video. I'm still mulling it over.

I frankly don't understand how the VR folks can afford to go this long with what has to be a shoestring budget. I know I could not do it. Wife. Kids. Mortgage. Bills to pay. 

I know VR doesn't like being pestered with questions about when benchmarks will be met. Alpha. Beta. Release. But there are people who have been following this game for 6 years already. 

In some way this is starting to remind me of my ill fated attempt to become a draftsman (the folks who make schematic drawings of machine parts and such). I think we were supposed to do 6 drawings in a six week period. In week six I was still on drawing one, because I wanted to get it juuuuuuuust right. It's a shit career for the obsessive compulsive, truly. I washed out and moved on to other pursuits.

I applaud the team's love for detail and precision. But sometimes you just have to get things finished, no?  

EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

GdemamiTorval

Comments

  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 1,606
    If you trust what the devs say then they have gotten additional funding twice. Two angel investors. They have said they have enough money to make it to launch. Only they know when that day is. For I am sure they have an internal date set for when they have to launch. With the pace they are going and the fact that they have said they don't want to release until its done, I don't think we will see the game release until 2023 or later.

    Project Faerthale is the first vertical slice of the game. Something they can point to and say this is Pantheon. This is how its different from EQ and how it is similar. With that done they could potentially court more investors. I would say that the game will release but I understand your frustration. I to am waiting to play in Alpha with my breath held. I figure though that PA will go on for at least another year.

    I mean lets be real, we aren't told usually when PA testers get let in until they usually have been testing for a few weeks, but with what was said here and in the past I am guessing they won't be testing until at least November or December.
  • LtldoggLtldogg Member UncommonPosts: 269
    I feel similar to you.  The Devs are over-complicating the game and spending way to much time on nice extras instead of core gaming.  In fact, it seems they continue to take two steps back every time I read the newest newsletter and announcing another system.  

    This game appears doomed to fail, but I hope they can pull it off.  However, if they don't get a core of great classes, leveling, skills, gear, questing, exploring, economy and socialism, then the rest won't matter.
    Gdemami
  • Mackaveli44Mackaveli44 Member RarePosts: 574
    edited August 23
    They're taking their time because they don't have some big brother company looking over their shoulder saying hey pump this shit out cause we need money now or else which in turn would lead to a horse product as we have seen countless times.  Why rush them?  Do I want the game to come out so we can play it? Fuck yes but I'd rather have them do their thing rather than rush a product out and than all hell ensues because they got rushed and put out a product that was infested with issues how weve seen in the past(said this before).

    On top of that, they have a smaller team than your average company and Im sure their budget isn't as large either.  Hell I remember some people back at the beginning working for free on the game just out of pure passion. 


    Patience young Padawan.  Good things come to those who wait. 
    Gdemami
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,405
    edited August 23
    Think of it this way....it could be something like CoE which is like just models at this point or Ashes, which is telling people it'll be a mmorpg while it puts out and monetizes a BR....or even like Star Citizen which has been in development for double the time and still isn't even in alpha (or is anything past flight/walking simulator mode).
    Babuinix
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,255
    Albatroes said:
    Think of it this way....it could be something like CoE which is like just models at this point or Ashes, which is telling people it'll be a mmorpg while it puts out and monetizes a BR....or even like Star Citizen which has been in development for double the time and still isn't even in alpha (or is anything past flight/walking simulator mode).

    As per topic, Games take time, Kickstart dates are estimates to get the ball rolling. Dev's do the best they can with the available means. If you trusted them enough to put money upfront you should also be prepared to trust their judgement. Every dev wants the best for it's game but there's a balance needed to keep the business going and with that comes concessions.

    So just sit tight and play something else if you're having a hard time coping with the "wait" ;)
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,176
    I think we have witnessed the dawn of the Glacial Development Age.  Maybe in 2015, maybe before.  Software has gone from "it's good enough, get it out the door" to the next phase, where everything must be absolutely perfect or it doesn't get released.

    People are subsidizing the development of games so much through crowdfunding and other pregame sales mechanisms that it has almost become detrimental to actually release the game.  Finish the game and the pregame income goes away.  The companies accept this money without any return obligation to actually build the game.  The developers are living off their pregame incomes.  It essentially boils down to the whales are supporting developers, with the minnows are helping.  I think this pregame income fuels the desire for perfection and facilitates the slow development cycle.

    Occasionally, this system might produce a game.  Maybe not.  It doesn't seem to be a healthy business model.  There's simply too much latitude to allow spurious, unethical or even criminal activity to intrude.   At least, for my tastes.



    GdemamiFangrimOctagon7711

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 2,255
    edited August 23
    Everything you see in the gamedev of these kickstarted game also happens behind doors with normal games funded by publishers.

    Welcome to the custom slaughter house where you see the sausage being made, it's not pretty but it has the potential to deliver a special flavour sausage that's right up your alley. It also has the potential to crash and burn like many other games. It's the nature of the beast. Adapt and roll with it, crying about delays or changes in development is useless.
    Post edited by Babuinix on
    Gdemami
  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,455
    Ltldogg said:
    I feel similar to you.  The Devs are over-complicating the game and spending way to much time on nice extras instead of core gaming.  In fact, it seems they continue to take two steps back every time I read the newest newsletter and announcing another system.  

    This game appears doomed to fail, but I hope they can pull it off.  However, if they don't get a core of great classes, leveling, skills, gear, questing, exploring, economy and socialism, then the rest won't matter.

    And this was different from Vanguard how?
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,929
    Mendel said:

    People are subsidizing the development of games so much through crowdfunding and other pregame sales mechanisms that it has almost become detrimental to actually release the game.  Finish the game and the pregame income goes away.  The companies accept this money without any return obligation to actually build the game.  



    yeah, that's a bit too tinfoil hat for me.

    With a finished game they actually get continued income and also have a finished game on their resumes which is huge in the game development world.

    Accepting money from here and there means no guarantee it will continue and if it suddenly dries up then they are out of luck. Oh sure, Star Citizen seems to be able to raise the millions but I'm fairly certain games like Ship of Heroes or Pantheon or Chronicles of Elria are not.

    The game is taking a bit because they don't have a large publisher breathing down their backs AND they dont' have enough money to do everything they need to do quickly.

    Their project Faerthale (or however it's spelled) is going to be their proof of concept that will most likely get them enough money to finish the game.

    As far as Amathe goes, "don't wait on the game."

    Seriously. Never do that.

    If you gave money then "great!" Now walk away and if something comes of it then bonus. If not then you won't have waited like kids on christmas eve.

    If you absolutely need guarantees that a crowdfunded project will launch and launch soon then don't give money to crowd funded projects.





  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,527
    Babuinix said:

    ... it has the potential to deliver a special flavour sausage that's right up your ... alley. 
    Indeed, it does.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • UtinniUtinni Member RarePosts: 893
    I feel they should've been able to release a barebones EQ-like experience for folks to play by now. 
    Gdemami
  • SandmanjwSandmanjw Member UncommonPosts: 200
    Can not ever make people happy in this business. 

    Take your time....you lose
    Release to soon...you lose
    Have tons of money...you lose (SC anyone?)
    Not enough money...you lose

    Hell this game is not for me, the grouping thing, but still i am amazed they have come this far with the terrible start they had.

    Not my favorite anything really...game or group of Dev's...but got to give them credit for sticking to what they want to be and build. Reminds me a lot of the old days of EVE...a group saying i am building my game, take it or leave it. But we are not changing.

    Kind of refreshing, actually, in today's gaming era. No idea where it will end up, but can not say they did not try their best.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,555
    edited August 23
    Babuinix said:
    Albatroes said:
    Think of it this way....it could be something like CoE which is like just models at this point or Ashes, which is telling people it'll be a mmorpg while it puts out and monetizes a BR....or even like Star Citizen which has been in development for double the time and still isn't even in alpha (or is anything past flight/walking simulator mode).

    As per topic, Games take time, Kickstart dates are estimates to get the ball rolling. Dev's do the best they can with the available means. If you trusted them enough to put money upfront you should also be prepared to trust their judgement. Every dev wants the best for it's game but there's a balance needed to keep the business going and with that comes concessions.

    So just sit tight and play something else if you're having a hard time coping with the "wait" ;)
    Its pretty clear kickstart dates were either outright lies just to raise funds or if done in good faith were estimated by incompetents.

    Many a armchair developer predicted a full featured MMORPG could not be delivered in 2 or 3 years on a shoestring budget, and to date they've been 100% correct.

    Step aside Nostradamus, there's a new player in town.

     B) 
    GdemamiTorvaljimmywolf

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,555
    edited August 23
    Amathe said:
    After reading the August newsletter, I confess I became a little frustrated at the pace of development. Who knows how many pre-Alphas there are going to be. I sort of picture myself a skeleton in front of my monitor as Pantheon enters pre-Alpha 9022. 

    It looks like there is a restless native or two on the official Pantheon boards as well:

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/11000/pantheon-never-to-be-released/view/page/1

    That got me thinking, how long has this game been in development? I went looking and found this interesting video on that very topic (short version, since 2013 or 2015, depending on what and how you count):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg9nmxH30cM&vl=en

    There is a lot to think about in that video. I'm still mulling it over.

    I frankly don't understand how the VR folks can afford to go this long with what has to be a shoestring budget. I know I could not do it. Wife. Kids. Mortgage. Bills to pay. 

    I know VR doesn't like being pestered with questions about when benchmarks will be met. Alpha. Beta. Release. But there are people who have been following this game for 6 years already. 

    In some way this is starting to remind me of my ill fated attempt to become a draftsman (the folks who make schematic drawings of machine parts and such). I think we were supposed to do 6 drawings in a six week period. In week six I was still on drawing one, because I wanted to get it juuuuuuuust right. It's a shit career for the obsessive compulsive, truly. I washed out and moved on to other pursuits.

    I applaud the team's love for detail and precision. But sometimes you just have to get things finished, no?  
    See Chapter 6 of @Slapshot1188 's upcoming new book, Armchair Developer's Guide to Indie Game Creation.

    Penned by "moi", its titled "Release & Milestone Dates are for Suckers subtitled (Why You Never Need to Keep Them)

    It will explain everything.

    ;)
    Slapshot1188

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,503
    Amathe said:
    Babuinix said:

    ... it has the potential to deliver a special flavour sausage that's right up your ... alley. 
    Indeed, it does.
    Wow, I couldn't have said it better myself... Crowdfunded MMOs delivering their "special flavour sausage" right up our alleys for going on at least 6 years now. Thank you sir! May I have another!
    AethaerynAmathe
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,822
    Sovrath said:

    If you absolutely need guarantees that a crowdfunded project will launch and launch soon then don't give money to crowd funded projects.


    Or, wait for release to actually put money into a game.
    TorvalScott23

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

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