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With the looming trend of classic MMOs relaunches on the rise, the truth will be revealed

MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,171
With the looming trend of classic MMOs relaunches on the rise, 


My theory of the state of the MMO genre will be put to the ultimate test.


My theory to explain the regression of the MMO genre over the years has been the understanding that the MMO games themselves now days haven’t really changed. It’s the Mentality of the players which is what really has changed.


Over time player’s mentality has changed and evolved. But the MMO games themselves have stayed the same stagnant conservative models of yesteryear. In fact I believe the players and fan of the MMO genre themselves aren’t even consciously aware of this mentality change.

Things that use to be a stable to the MMO genre aren't the case anymore. Like long grindy level grinds use to be the thing, but now days a grindy MMO will bleed population. FFA full loot MMOs were once a thing but that ship has long sailed away.

With Classic WoW soon to become public, this can go two ways. With its long term success we will see that MMOs been the source of the problem over the years not the players. 

But if Classic WoW flops that would be a clear sign that maybe both sides of the equation here been in the wrong. Both the players and the developers. 

I believe Classic WoW will have a high count of success early on like most hyped up MMOs, but quickly lose steam. 

The same people that complain about the lack of challenge in level grind in modern WoW will likely not be in Classic WoW long, and the people that say the modern WoW is too easy will also play Classic and steamroll the content because it wasn't that the games were harder, it's just we got more skilled and have better access to tools and guides. 

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RhoklawmmolouMikeha
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Comments

  • TanemundTanemund Member UncommonPosts: 153
    edited August 2019
    The idea that Classic WoW is somehow "hardcore" and "grindy" is humorous to anyone who played any MMO before WoW. 

    However, now that I've said that, it becomes incumbent upon me to inform the rest of the population that "WORLD OF WARCRAFT WAS TEH 1ST MMO EVAH !!!!!!!11111SHIFTELEVEN!!!

    As to the original post, the people who played the first and second generation of MMORPGS are all in their 50s now.  Those were people who grew up playing Dungeons and Dragons on paper, and MMORPGS were their table top games come to life on the computer.  Those MMORPGS were lightning fast compared to rolling dice for half an hour to complete one melee round. 

    Every generation of game after the first generation has been about speeding the experience up and tidying up ganking and griefing so the players can get to an "end game" as opposed to playing PvE in a persistent world like a Dungeons and Dragons campaign.

    It's impossible to go back in time.  Other games have tried the "classic server" route (DAoC classics anyone?).  Not many players will be lured out of retirement to play "Classic" anything.  It will just draw players off of the current playerbase and once the shine wears off people will quit it or go back to the regular servers.

    Best to leave corpses in the graveyard where they belong rather than risking a monster rez like Pet Cemetery.  Nostalgia is best over a couple of drinks with old comrades. 
    TorvalYukmarc

    Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 9,034
    In the meantime fans are creating their own content in old games now.


    Was never a fan of the SWG NGE, but props to them for keeping a dead game alive.

    jimmywolf
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,634
    Does this mean older games were in fact better after all?
    Viper482
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,634
    DMKano said:
    WoW relaunch will not go 2 ways - it will go exactly like everyone already predicts 

    Initially it will be a huge success, only to be followed by rapid decline.

    Also I think it's laughable to talk about WoW classic as some sort of a "challenging" game - please, can we all remember that classic wow was the ultimate casual MMORPG at launch?

    Now that all classic content is 100% known - the game will be way easier than how it was in 2004 when not everything was 100% already figured out.
    While I agree with the consensus, if  they were to release expansions while keeping the Classic rule set, this might have legs. 
    Rhoklaw
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • renstarensta Member RarePosts: 681
    It's more like, in the beginning of mmorpg gaming, it was mostly kids who played, kids and teenagers.  as you grew older, you were expected to give it up, become a man, get a job, get married etc.... These type of games were seen as only meant for children.  
    When MMORPGs starting reaching the peak pf their evolution (well established, fast pased grindy 3d beautiful world), kids started getting really addicted, in hige numbers, it was no longer those 3 nerds at class that play mmorpgs, most of the class or at least halve were into mmorpgs. 
    So everyone played, and played a lot, which was perfect for the grindy gaming design of those times. All these kids grew up, started getting serious jobs, getting married, suddenly, playing for 8 hours to gain 1%-2% percentage experience, wasn't really an option anymore, and playing one hour to gain less than 0.5% wasn't really satisfying.
    So games started catering to those gamers who got old, because they complained, played less and had more money to spend. hence, in game shops became more aggressive. In the end, its all our fault, we became too old, our imagination too stale, we are unable to immerse ourselves in a game for 8 hours everyday like we used to.  ( well some of us still can).   Unless we can't make money while playing the game, i double adults will be able to truly immerse themselves into these games.  Making money ingame is the thing which is missing from games today, if any of us could make an average salary by grinding goblins, we would all be playing now. 
    Palebane

    image


    Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,171
    edited August 2019
    Tanemund said:
    The idea that Classic WoW is somehow "hardcore" and "grindy" is humorous to anyone who played any MMO before WoW. 

    However, now that I've said that, it becomes incumbent upon me to inform the rest of the population that "WORLD OF WARCRAFT WAS TEH 1ST MMO EVAH !!!!!!!11111SHIFTELEVEN!!!

    As to the original post, the people who played the first and second generation of MMORPGS are all in their 50s now.  Those were people who grew up playing Dungeons and Dragons on paper, and MMORPGS were their table top games come to life on the computer.  Those MMORPGS were lightning fast compared to rolling dice for half an hour to complete one melee round. 

    Every generation of game after the first generation has been about speeding the experience up and tidying up ganking and griefing so the players can get to an "end game" as opposed to playing PvE in a persistent world like a Dungeons and Dragons campaign.

    It's impossible to go back in time.  Other games have tried the "classic server" route (DAoC classics anyone?).  Not many players will be lured out of retirement to play "Classic" anything.  It will just draw players off of the current playerbase and once the shine wears off people will quit it or go back to the regular servers.

    Best to leave corpses in the graveyard where they belong rather than risking a monster rez like Pet Cemetery.  Nostalgia is best over a couple of drinks with old comrades. 
    Well let's not pretend Vanilla Wow wasn't more grindy than modern day MMOs. It was causal in the sense of easy to get into compared to what as out back then and much more polished.
    But I agree

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,171
    NorseGod said:
    Does this mean older games were in fact better after all?
    We will see. If Classic WoW flops as I theorize it will, then no. Otherwise yeah I guess so. 

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,171
    NorseGod said:
    DMKano said:
    WoW relaunch will not go 2 ways - it will go exactly like everyone already predicts 

    Initially it will be a huge success, only to be followed by rapid decline.

    Also I think it's laughable to talk about WoW classic as some sort of a "challenging" game - please, can we all remember that classic wow was the ultimate casual MMORPG at launch?

    Now that all classic content is 100% known - the game will be way easier than how it was in 2004 when not everything was 100% already figured out.
    While I agree with the consensus, if  they were to release expansions while keeping the Classic rule set, this might have legs. 
    But what is classic ruleset?  That's the thing. What defines the older model? 

    image

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,187
    The problem with the whole classic trend is it not suit for MMO .
    You can remake a game , upgrade graphic , then sell it , done . But MMO not work that way , you open clasic server , people jump in , consume contents , then after that ?
    You can't just sell and done with it like normal game , open an MMO mean you open a service and have to maintain it , add more contents
    MMOExposedklash2defBeezerbeez
  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,656
    iixviiiix said:
    The problem with the whole classic trend is it not suit for MMO .
    You can remake a game , upgrade graphic , then sell it , done . But MMO not work that way , you open clasic server , people jump in , consume contents , then after that ?
    You can't just sell and done with it like normal game , open an MMO mean you open a service and have to maintain it , add more contents

    This is what happens in pvt classic servers. after a month they get what is called " raid locked ". most of the population is gone and the ones left only log in to raid because there is really nothing else to do. they have done the classic experience before so they fly through the content.

    Then a new server opens they all rush to it and do it all over again. I know it seems crazy but i have seen it happen many times. leaving the previous server practically dead.
  • CazrielCazriel Member UncommonPosts: 419
    In 1966 I went to the Beatles concert at the Hollywood Bowl in Los Angeles.  It was insane.  Utterly insane.  The screaming of the audience was so loud you could not hear any music at all.  The band was so far away, they were tiny.  But I was there. 

    It's the same for Classic WoW.  It doesn't matter whether it has legs.  It doesn't matter if it's legendary, nostalgic or boring.  It only matters that you're there.  And just like I have my stories and memories of going to a Beatles concert, gamers who play Classic, hit or miss, will remember launch day.

    TL;DR:  Classic is a gaming event few people will miss. 
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    There is only one expectation i have for Classic when it launches. Login queues. :p
    klash2defcheebammolou
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,373
    So its a trend now that Blizzard is jumping on an idea that has been happening for over a decade at this point, right?
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    Just lol.

    See you in Classic!
    mmolou

    You stay sassy!

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,171
    Albatroes said:
    So its a trend now that Blizzard is jumping on an idea that has been happening for over a decade at this point, right?
    this quote remind me of my response when people use to argue about the industry being taken over by WoW Clones.
    Palebane

    image

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,373
    edited August 2019
    DrunkWolf said:
    iixviiiix said:
    The problem with the whole classic trend is it not suit for MMO .
    You can remake a game , upgrade graphic , then sell it , done . But MMO not work that way , you open clasic server , people jump in , consume contents , then after that ?
    You can't just sell and done with it like normal game , open an MMO mean you open a service and have to maintain it , add more contents

    This is what happens in pvt classic servers. after a month they get what is called " raid locked ". most of the population is gone and the ones left only log in to raid because there is really nothing else to do. they have done the classic experience before so they fly through the content.

    Then a new server opens they all rush to it and do it all over again. I know it seems crazy but i have seen it happen many times. leaving the previous server practically dead.
    This only proves it's the gameplay these people are after. They don't really care about the time invested on their characters or seeing all the content. It's the journey they look forward to play and perhaps fresh server wPvP where everyone is about on equal level. They are willing to start everything over on a fresh server because the game is that good.

    In order to keep people playing Classic longer than 5-6 months Blizzard should have ways to expand the journey somehow. The mistake they did in the past and keep doing in current WoW was that they add more end game content but at the same time they create short-cuts to keep the length of the journey the same than before.
    Post edited by deniter on
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member LegendaryPosts: 7,451
    Retail WoW and Classic WoW aren't even remotely the same game. I have been trying to play Retail since resubbing for the first time since WotLK and I can't even recognize the game. Not just environments because of Cataclysm, but mechanics are completely different. Retail WoW is literally streamlined to the point that it's boring. Yes, theres a ton of new features like pet battles and other things, but the core mechanics from Vanilla WoW are nonexistent.

    I also don't see Classic WoW dying in a year because it offers a version of WoW that hasn't existeed for almost a decade outside of private servers. I'm going to have to disagree with a lot of whats been said in this thread, but that's just differing opinions. Everyone enjoys what they want and Classic WoW is for old school veterans who stopped playing before the launch of Cataclysm. I don't care if Retail players hate it or talk shit about it. It wasn't brought back for them, lol.
    Phrymmolou

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Rhoklaw said:
    Retail WoW and Classic WoW aren't even remotely the same game. I have been trying to play Retail since resubbing for the first time since WotLK and I can't even recognize the game. Not just environments because of Cataclysm, but mechanics are completely different. Retail WoW is literally streamlined to the point that it's boring. Yes, theres a ton of new features like pet battles and other things, but the core mechanics from Vanilla WoW are nonexistent.

    I also don't see Classic WoW dying in a year because it offers a version of WoW that hasn't existeed for almost a decade outside of private servers. I'm going to have to disagree with a lot of whats been said in this thread, but that's just differing opinions. Everyone enjoys what they want and Classic WoW is for old school veterans who stopped playing before the launch of Cataclysm. I don't care if Retail players hate it or talk shit about it. It wasn't brought back for them, lol.
    It would not surprise me in the least if Classic WoW outlives Retail WoW, unless Blizzard radically changes Retail that is, because BfA is an utter failure. :/
    Rhoklawmmolou
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,115
    Most people got the MMORPGs wrong.

    MMORPGs were a niche and still are, it’s a nerdy hobby, it never meant to go mainstream.

    MMORPGs are the modern version of table top D&D, it’s a niche.
    And the last MMORPG was Vanilla WOW.

    WOW Classic is going to be a huge success because it will be played by this big niche who is waiting for a ‘real’ MMORPG for 10 years.

    And it will have longevity, because old MMORPGs were designed to be Social.
    It’s the players who are the main content of older MMORPGs, not the game mechanics per se.

    I played Vanilla for 2 years on private servers, and I would still be playing if they didn’t announce Classic.
    So saying that after a couple of months people will get bored with it, means you never understood what an MMORPG is all about.
    Viper482mmolou
  • Shooter564567Shooter564567 Member UncommonPosts: 44
    edited August 2019
    I played Asherons Call 1 before WoW...  and in comparison classic WoW was a shitty watered down theme park for casual mainstream noobs
    p4ttythep3rf3ctSteelhelm
  • Shooter564567Shooter564567 Member UncommonPosts: 44
    edited August 2019
    Are they going to update classic wow with new content?   If not.. then why would anyone keep playing it ?   What's the end game ?   PVP?

    PVP is not what WoW is.. WoW is a classic PVE, questing MMORPG..
  • Shooter564567Shooter564567 Member UncommonPosts: 44
    edited August 2019
    I only played classic WoW to like level 58 with a Warrior...    maybe I should try it again....  with an overpowered rogue
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,634
    NorseGod said:
    DMKano said:

    But what is classic ruleset?  That's the thing. What defines the older model? 
    Hmm. Good question.

    I probably have 3-4 months of game time total in WoW since launch. So I'm not really in a position to answer.

    But, if it's just my opinion, I liked the older versions when Shockadin was viable, no flying mounts, boss loot, and the skill trees.

    Sorry, those are the only things that stick out for me.
    Palebane
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,524
    DMKano said:
    WoW relaunch will not go 2 ways - it will go exactly like everyone already predicts 

    Initially it will be a huge success, only to be followed by rapid decline.

    Also I think it's laughable to talk about WoW classic as some sort of a "challenging" game - please, can we all remember that classic wow was the ultimate casual MMORPG at launch?

    Now that all classic content is 100% known - the game will be way easier than how it was in 2004 when not everything was 100% already figured out.
    It will be fun to watch the launch of this. All these people acting like its the second coming. It's still Wow after all. And Blizzard will never admit to declining numbers for it. I'm betting they are banking on people returning to the new Wow after a few months of playing this classic.
    NorseGod
  • RavenRaven Member UncommonPosts: 2,005
    Hariken said:
    DMKano said:
    WoW relaunch will not go 2 ways - it will go exactly like everyone already predicts 

    Initially it will be a huge success, only to be followed by rapid decline.

    Also I think it's laughable to talk about WoW classic as some sort of a "challenging" game - please, can we all remember that classic wow was the ultimate casual MMORPG at launch?

    Now that all classic content is 100% known - the game will be way easier than how it was in 2004 when not everything was 100% already figured out.
    It will be fun to watch the launch of this. All these people acting like its the second coming. It's still Wow after all. And Blizzard will never admit to declining numbers for it. I'm betting they are banking on people returning to the new Wow after a few months of playing this classic.
    There is no doubt in my mind that the numbers will decline very quickly, there will be a lot of hype around it and launch will be a lot of fun with tons of people, but as people have noted the fact that everyone knows the game already, every thing will be min-maxed, content will be consumed much faster than usual.

    I think the key to them making this work as a business is the phases, every new phase will bring people back to consume that content, I suspect that once that has been exhausted they will likely move to TBC and beyond, with every new patch the servers will be full of people with a % of those being new subscribers and when they consume the content it is very likely a lot of them will turn into retail subscribers too.

    Now here is an alternative to classic that I think would be very interesting but will never happen:

    Blizzard forks World of Warcraft, pick an event in classic and call it a different timeline and re-invent WoW Classic with new content and a different approach that is more inline with the experience some of its core fanbase is looking for. Take the things that are universally liked from all the expansions they released and repackage it with different content and leave out everything people hated, they must have 15 years of data readily available.

    This would still be a massive gamble and no guarantees of any success but it would be a completely different take and if someone can make this work is Blizzard, because I think right now they are doomed to simply make a progression server and hope that they buy enough time and enough subscribers until their next project.

    image

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