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Activision Blizzard and a whole lot of taxes.

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  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    Horusra said:
    Strength of the dollar is based on the strength of the relative economies.  Ask China the yuan just tanked, but their military is still the same.
    While fiat currency is based on a economic basket, I wouldn't use the Yuan as an example. It's not a fiat currency in the same manner as most, and the recent value drop was a mechanic one to help keep it's value pinned low enough in exchange to the USD to weaken the impact of tariff costs.
    AlBQuirkyGdemami
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,720
    edited August 2019
    gervaise1 said:
    Yes i get that. Government stops doing "stuff" and so no longer needs to borrow to do that "stuff".  Now did you misunderstand what "the US is still running trillion dollar deficits" means. Since its not about paying back borrowings.

    You expect your customers to pay you - you don't expect them to rant saying that paying your business is evil. Maybe they rant about you being to expensive and say if only you cut your prices more people will come so you can cut your prices (supply side economics 101),

    We should pay for what we want. Taxes are simply the bill. Not an evil. I can make choices. Most don't want to though. A trillion dollar deficit simply means that people - collectively - are not paying for "what they want". Nothing to do with no longer paying a bank,

    Do you want to scrap everything paid for collectively? Military / FBI, courts, embassies, all non-military - the lot? People just buy what they want? This is a philosophy.

    As soon as you say nooooo we need X though then you are into paying for stuff collectively. And you may have to pay for some stuff - that you do not want - in order to get others to pay for stuff that you do not want. But can't afford as a private citizen. A few options:

    Travel stuff - roads, bridges, airports etc. Arguments for and against toll roads; would certainly lead to less travel so good for the environment: pay at the point of use generally depresses demand. Less business for you maybe? When a (taxes are bad) state I lived in proposed a toll road though - sheesh! They borrowed a few billion more.

    The military - this absolutely would have to be cut. You OK with that? And when I say must that is because spending from Oct'19 to Sep'20 is estimated at $989B. And the politicians haven't / are not allowing the DoD to make the savings it wants: cut civilian staff, pay servicemen less, close bases, long list but hohoho they can't do any of that as its politically toxic. By 2024, on current projections, they won't be able to afford any new equipment or deployments though. So militaru cut backs OK with you?

    Disaster relief, No taxes, no taxes. Followed by: the government hasn't responded to "our" - always our - fire / flood / hurricane / earthquake. Insurance won't cover it either.

    And so on. This is what government is by the way. Whether we need it though and just let big corporations do their thing ......

    Reply if you wish. I don't expect you to though. And it doesn't (directly) impact me.


    My key points are simply that taxes, in and of themselves, are not evil. It is the way that we pay for our collective services. Question what politicians say. Beware the soundbite. Oh and the deficit is now getting really, really big (and most of those who have railed against deficits for years are suddenly OK with them. Pathetic!)
    I snipped for ease of quoting :)

    I don't think people are saying "taxes are evil" (some probably are), but rather what those taxes are used for is not in some folks agendas.

    I don't want to pay taxes to "help others", especially in natural disaster areas NOT in my own backyard. I don't want to give my hard earned money to support baby factory welfare recipients. I don't want to pay my Government to use my taxes to help women only organizations. Those kinds of organizations should be handled at the state and local levels, NOT the Federal level, if at all.

    Let's face it, our tax money is going to things NOT provided for in the US Constitution. No wonder some folks want to do away that important piece of paper ;)
    NorseGodGdemami

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,785
    AlBQuirky said:
    gervaise1 said:

    I snipped for ease of quoting :)

    I don't think people are saying "taxes are evil" (some probably are), but rather what those taxes are used for is not in some folks agendas.

    I don't want to pay taxes to "help others", especially in natural disaster areas NOT in my own backyard. I don't want to give my hard earned money to support baby factory welfare recipients. I don't want to pay my Government to use my taxes to help women only organizations. Those kinds of organizations should be handled at the state and local levels, NOT the Federal level, if at all.

    Let's face it, our tax money is going to things NOT provided for in the US Constitution. No wonder some folks want to do away that important piece of paper ;)

    Why exempt your own area for not having disaster relief! Getting rid of people hanging around waiting for a disaster in another area means they won't be there for you. Period. Big states - nope. Take Texas senators: pre- Houston flood: New York doesn't need disaster relief; post-flood: we need disaster funding. Pathetic!  

    Baby factory welfare - OK. So you want higher taxes then. Yep I said higher taxes. Increased spending on police, courts, jails that will be needed for starving, lawless mobs - try reading Charles Dickens letters or if that is to much Oliver Twist! Crime is much higher without welfare and so there are consequences. That have to be addressed. So unless you want to "round people up" and kill them - will assume not - you have to put something in place. Sod the taxes you will hire a private security firm maybe ... not a tax but .... 

    And what about the military. Pushing 55% of all discretionary spending now I think. (You might get labelled lots of nasty things if you are - the power of big corporations at work.)


    These were just examples I gave though. Not intended to be specifics. Every single area of "collective spending" has a debate that can be had; pros and cons. "Hard choices" though - and as I said those who once railed against deficits are now suddenly OK with them.  Pathetic as I said.
    Gdemami
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,211
    Go back to the 1800's 1900's etc. etc. The time before Income Tax

    Last I checked life is pretty damn sweet compared to those times.
    GdemamiNorseGod

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,517
    edited August 2019
    @gervaise1 @AlBQuirky

    You guys are going where I've been trying to avoid. lol

    This is a good discussion. It's ok to go into detail to explain how you arrived at your opinion on the topic. While what we are all saying is still relevant, remember we have to do this stupid dance around the Rules of Conduct.

    Can we all agree that we know more about this topic than what we are allowed to discuss? Can we also all agree that our watered-down responses isn't due to the fact that either of us have a limited knowledge on the topic and is in fact, trying NOT to violate the ROC or getting this thread shut down? It's kind of hard for all of us to make our case when we are being limited by the rules.

    We can agree to that, yeah?

    @AlBQuirky I'm on board with you. I was hoping we wouldn't go there, but I'm afraid this is what the "pushback" is really about. People don't want to give up their pet projects and they want to take away from somebody else that made better life choices, to pay for those pet projects.

    For example, when CA chooses to create, fund, and levy taxes for a new pet project, then don't expect my state to pay for their wildfires. They made a choice. Not my problem. 

    Or, being afraid to tell poor, irresponsible people they shouldn't have kids. Now, I know people are going to have a problem with that position. What gives me the right to tell others if they can or cannot squirt out a kid? My answer is simple. It became my right, the moment they took money away from me to pay for it. Damn right I have a say.

    We don't speak the truth anymore. Coddling a huge problem. 

    People are mad  at me for being the "evil" person for having that position. No. It's sucks. It's heartbreaking to deny people.

    And I'm mad at them for putting me into this situation in the first place. 

    The USA is a Republic (rule of law). Our civilization works because we agreed to live within the laws. I.g. murder is a crime. We agreed to that.

    So upholding the Constitution not only defines what the Gov can or cannot do, it's not a body or group of people to blame/point the finger at (more on this in a minute).

    We agreed long ago, if Gov doesn't work for us the way we want it to, then we have a Constitutional Convention and change the rules with a 3/5 majority.

    The "problem" with Blizzard is that people are mad and feel entitled to their money or want more of it. Blizzard is within the law. So wouldn't the solution be, change the tax law? I think, yes.

    We can't get anything done when it's "Us vs. Them". The laws, that we agreed to, are neutral. Following the law, takes away the Us vs. Them.

    And this is why I'm strictly for the rule of law.

    @gervaise1 I still want to respond to your last reply. I am not looking to come out of our exchange to be a "winner". But when you say irrelevant things, that I have already answered clearly, it makes me wonder if you are not understanding my approach to the topic.

    I'm looking at this pragmatically. And I think that you believe that I am approaching this problem the same way you are. I am not.

    For example, how many more times are you going to accuse me of getting my information from "soundbites"? Do you even care that I addressed this? Because I have a few times, yet you're still stuck on it.

    Anyways, I'll respond to you soon. It's not an easy thing to discuss and it wouldn't be fair to you if I didn't give you a thoughtful answer.

    Again, good discussion. And I hope the mods cut us a little slack, if we keep being civil. :smile:

    Gdemami
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,517
    laserit said:
    Go back to the 1800's 1900's etc. etc. The time before Income Tax

    Last I checked life is pretty damn sweet compared to those times.
    Heh

    I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but either way, I agree. If we don't change course, we are not going to have a choice.

    But, I'm not going to blame Blizzard for it when we do. I think that's where people differ.
    laserit
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,211
    NorseGod said:
    laserit said:
    Go back to the 1800's 1900's etc. etc. The time before Income Tax

    Last I checked life is pretty damn sweet compared to those times.
    Heh

    I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but either way, I agree. If we don't change course, we are not going to have a choice.

    But, I'm not going to blame Blizzard for it when we do. I think that's where people differ.
    I’m looking at all of us (me included) we don’t know what we’ve got until it’s gone.
    NorseGodAlBQuirky

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,121
    I don't think there should be a corporate/business income tax. Being headquartered in California, their income would taxed at 43.8% before 2017. This doesn't include a plethora of other taxes. 
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,211
    Cleffy said:
    I don't think there should be a corporate/business income tax. Being headquartered in California, their income would taxed at 43.8% before 2017. This doesn't include a plethora of other taxes. 
    California have a flat tax?

    Wish my taxes were that simple.
    NorseGod

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,720
    gervaise1 said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    gervaise1 said:

    I snipped for ease of quoting :)

    I don't think people are saying "taxes are evil" (some probably are), but rather what those taxes are used for is not in some folks agendas.

    I don't want to pay taxes to "help others", especially in natural disaster areas NOT in my own backyard. I don't want to give my hard earned money to support baby factory welfare recipients. I don't want to pay my Government to use my taxes to help women only organizations. Those kinds of organizations should be handled at the state and local levels, NOT the Federal level, if at all.

    Let's face it, our tax money is going to things NOT provided for in the US Constitution. No wonder some folks want to do away that important piece of paper ;)

    Why exempt your own area for not having disaster relief! Getting rid of people hanging around waiting for a disaster in another area means they won't be there for you. Period. Big states - nope. Take Texas senators: pre- Houston flood: New York doesn't need disaster relief; post-flood: we need disaster funding. Pathetic!  

    Baby factory welfare - OK. So you want higher taxes then. Yep I said higher taxes. Increased spending on police, courts, jails that will be needed for starving, lawless mobs - try reading Charles Dickens letters or if that is to much Oliver Twist! Crime is much higher without welfare and so there are consequences. That have to be addressed. So unless you want to "round people up" and kill them - will assume not - you have to put something in place. Sod the taxes you will hire a private security firm maybe ... not a tax but .... 

    And what about the military. Pushing 55% of all discretionary spending now I think. (You might get labelled lots of nasty things if you are - the power of big corporations at work.)


    These were just examples I gave though. Not intended to be specifics. Every single area of "collective spending" has a debate that can be had; pros and cons. "Hard choices" though - and as I said those who once railed against deficits are now suddenly OK with them.  Pathetic as I said.
    Saw and read. Won't respond as this is getting far too political for gaming boards ;)
    NorseGod

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

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