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@Fans of Open World FFA PvP MMOs, whats some things you dont like?

MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,870
Whats some things you dont like in a OW FFA PvP MMO? 

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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,870
    I am playing a On Site FFA survival game. From My experience, solo is out the question. So I was wondering if thats something other FFA fans dislike or being solo unfriendly a good thing to most of you?

    image

  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,692
    "Automatic Stats".   Basically anything you train/earn once, and then those benefits are with your character no matter what along with never needing to think about it ever again.    For instance a quest that gives you +50 health forever under any condition, would be a terrible design.   A quest that unlocks that same thing but requires you to be wearing both a shield and heavy armor at the same time, could be fine depending on other mechanics.

    "Inability to say no".  The ability to just say no to a gank or an attack is necessary.  That being said there should be some costs to it in the level of attention you need to spend, and to be drawn from a resource/build pool of some sort.    (Runescape had teleporting, which would end up requiring inventory slots and probably messing up your PvP build.   Screeps has a few uses from a protection pool, making a couple of rooms out of many attack immune). 

    Stealth is almost always under costed, and stealth detection a combination of overcosted/limited.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,589
    I hate fighting over nothing. I use to enjoy open pvp back in the day because you fought over hunting spots or you killed people who were actually bad people. or guilds were at war with each other. or you are getting loot off a player.

    but now its just a mindless zerg fest over nothing. people just mob up and kill others for no reason other than to be dicks. most people wont even try pvp unless they have friends with them.


    anemobcbullyKyleran
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,949
    The lack of punishment for PK .
    Some assh*le create a mess , and when you finally put them down for good , they come back in matter of second .
    It make you question yourself , "why the heck i play this game?"
    Steelhelm
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,655
    FFA PvP is chaotic and pointless and at best it resembles neighborhood gang wars but most of the time it resembles a mugging.

    I like rule sets with well-defined allies and enemies (i.e. faction based, not FFA PvP.) Communities and/or nations at war is much more fun and has more of a point to the fighting. Having well-defined friend and enemy NPCs and players in MMOs is a must to hold my interest.

    If I wanted FFA I'd be playing casual BR games in 15 minute matches. I want something more engaging than that in an MMO.
    SteelhelmbcbullyAzaron_Nightblade
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • boris20boris20 Member UncommonPosts: 278
    If it is going to be FFA PVP, which I do like, I would prefer areas that have "law" or at the least, negatives to ganking others. And areas that encourage the fighting. Such as meaningful objectives, to attract opposing forces to rally and contest and area. 
    Steelhelm
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 508
    Sharp power curves that make a few levels or an equipment tier basically insurmountable. Open world PvP games need to have a flat power curve to allow a wide range of levels compete in fair and enjoyable conflict.

    Lack of consequences for PKs. You shouldn't be able to go around murdering people without risk. In UO you turned grey for attacking an innocent and could be attacked freely by other players and guards for a few minutes. If you murdered 5 players you became red, which was a grey flag that lasted for weeks, plus you lost 20% of all stats and skills if you died. In Shadowbane you had to have a guild with a city to succeed. If you went around murdering everyone you could be guild kicked or get your city burned to the ground. Consequences completely change the dynamics of FFA PvP.
    bcbully
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,182
    I only dislike open world FFA PvP if there is no reason to be doing it. If there is territory to control, or you are fighting over something for a reason, than I completely love the FFA combat, but if it's just in the game to gank other players, it isn't there for a reason and will just hinder the games population. 

    I also think that skills that have no caps or stats that have no caps are a bad thing as well. It basically gives a huge advantage to the players who never left the game and new players have absolutely no chance to catch up which causes a disparity in the open PvP nature of the game where you essentially have insanely high stat players running around ganking new players in one hit. 
    Kyleran
  • vegetableoilvegetableoil Member UncommonPosts: 290
    edited August 13
    iixviiiix said:
    The lack of punishment for PK .
    Some assh*le create a mess , and when you finally put them down for good , they come back in matter of second .
    It make you question yourself , "why the heck i play this game?"
    Yep I agree, absolutely no punishment for pk, even with punishment people have ways to circumvent it. For example in age of wushu they have bounty, the pk'ers just tell his friend to kill him and split the bounty, also they implement jail  but if you are in a guild they can break you out. Then there is absolute worse is execution sentence, they create animations to chop the head off, but later the player respawn with only 1 hr debuff then he started killing again and laugh at the debuff.  Archeage is even dumber with court system only to have the jury filled with the pk'ers friends and just sets them free. some games even put rare material in only pvp areas to farm, this create also problems with large guild alliances controlling the area 24/7. and in the end you got fed up and really say "screw this game" The population of the game goes down, with less people even the gankers stop playing. It's just not healthy for the continuation of the game.
    Kyleraniixviiiix
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Well the only FFA OW PvP games I play are Arena games, like Counter Strike, or Fortnight (in my case, I play Eternal Crusade)

    Well to be honest, one of things that I don't like in my PvP game is PvE bullshit.

    If I joined a PvP game, I want to PvP, I want classes, set up, gear, etc, balanced for PvP style play, on top of that, I want to log in, and kill and die in glorious battle, against like minded players.

    I don't want people out there crafting, or node harvesting, or hell, even "working on my swimming", or crying about how they were not here for the PvP, or even talking about "ganking" at all.. No.. go away.. this is a PvP game, lets PvP.

    If I wanted to play Farm-Simulator, or Blacksmith simulator, or do PvE bullshit in general, I'd just go play a PvE game. I do not log into a PvP game to kill NPC's, to harvest Nodes, or do anything else remotely mundane like that.

    Equally so, if I want to play some PvE game, where I am out harvesting nodes, or playing family sims castle builder or lets-learn-trade game.. I really don't want to deal with other players killing me and taking my stuff.

    The best Full Loot, PvP, OW, game ever made that combined PvE with PvP was Fortnight. It was the only game where the PvE and PvP were combined to make a true cooperative union of the two.

    And all the other stuff is people trying to mix two things that looks more like burnt trail mix in a bowl then a actual cobbler pie.
    Kyleran
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,870
    Ungood said:
    Well the only FFA OW PvP games I play are Arena games, like Counter Strike, or Fortnight (in my case, I play Eternal Crusade)

    Well to be honest, one of things that I don't like in my PvP game is PvE bullshit.

    If I joined a PvP game, I want to PvP, I want classes, set up, gear, etc, balanced for PvP style play, on top of that, I want to log in, and kill and die in glorious battle, against like minded players.

    I don't want people out there crafting, or node harvesting, or hell, even "working on my swimming", or crying about how they were not here for the PvP, or even talking about "ganking" at all.. No.. go away.. this is a PvP game, lets PvP.

    If I wanted to play Farm-Simulator, or Blacksmith simulator, or do PvE bullshit in general, I'd just go play a PvE game. I do not log into a PvP game to kill NPC's, to harvest Nodes, or do anything else remotely mundane like that.

    Equally so, if I want to play some PvE game, where I am out harvesting nodes, or playing family sims castle builder or lets-learn-trade game.. I really don't want to deal with other players killing me and taking my stuff.

    The best Full Loot, PvP, OW, game ever made that combined PvE with PvP was Fortnight. It was the only game where the PvE and PvP were combined to make a true cooperative union of the two.

    And all the other stuff is people trying to mix two things that looks more like burnt trail mix in a bowl then a actual cobbler pie.
    That's the thing. If you want just Pvp then you agree that everybody should be on equal footing in terms of weapons and armor right? Because if you have to craft weapons, armors, build bases, get food, etc that's all forms of PvE. 

    image

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,782
    Ungood said:
    Well the only FFA OW PvP games I play are Arena games, like Counter Strike, or Fortnight (in my case, I play Eternal Crusade)

    Well to be honest, one of things that I don't like in my PvP game is PvE bullshit.

    If I joined a PvP game, I want to PvP, I want classes, set up, gear, etc, balanced for PvP style play, on top of that, I want to log in, and kill and die in glorious battle, against like minded players.

    I don't want people out there crafting, or node harvesting, or hell, even "working on my swimming", or crying about how they were not here for the PvP, or even talking about "ganking" at all.. No.. go away.. this is a PvP game, lets PvP.

    If I wanted to play Farm-Simulator, or Blacksmith simulator, or do PvE bullshit in general, I'd just go play a PvE game. I do not log into a PvP game to kill NPC's, to harvest Nodes, or do anything else remotely mundane like that.

    Equally so, if I want to play some PvE game, where I am out harvesting nodes, or playing family sims castle builder or lets-learn-trade game.. I really don't want to deal with other players killing me and taking my stuff.

    The best Full Loot, PvP, OW, game ever made that combined PvE with PvP was Fortnight. It was the only game where the PvE and PvP were combined to make a true cooperative union of the two.

    And all the other stuff is people trying to mix two things that looks more like burnt trail mix in a bowl then a actual cobbler pie.
    as the thread title suggests..

      He is asking of  "Open World FFA PvP MMOs"

      Which none of the games you mention are , it seems the intent of the discussion has eluded you

    anemoKyleran
  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,702
    iixviiiix said:
    The lack of punishment for PK .
    Some assh*le create a mess , and when you finally put them down for good , they come back in matter of second .
    It make you question yourself , "why the heck i play this game?"
    Yep I agree, absolutely no punishment for pk, even with punishment people have ways to circumvent it. For example in age of wushu they have bounty, the pk'ers just tell his friend to kill him and split the bounty, also they implement jail  but if you are in a guild they can break you out. Then there is absolute worse is execution sentence, they create animations to chop the head off, but later the player respawn with only 1 hr debuff then he started killing again and laugh at the debuff.  Archeage is even dumber with court system only to have the jury filled with the pk'ers friends and just sets them free. some games even put rare material in only pvp areas to farm, this create also problems with large guild alliances controlling the area 24/7. and in the end you got fed up and really say "screw this game" The population of the game goes down, with less people even the gankers stop playing. It's just not healthy for the continuation of the game.
    Not really that simple. The process from bounty to jail, to jail break will take 30 mins to an hour, and you better have your A-Team doing the break. Jail guards are players summoned in. 

    Beheading, first the killer will be in the stocks up to 23 hours sometimes. The debuff 30% debuff last one day.

    Prison (after jail) There is no break. More times than I’d like to admit I sat there for 5 hours. You must remain online for time to count.

    These deterrents allowed a cultures to form were newbis were at worse untouched. At best fiercely defended. Where players knew what was right and wrong culturally. People knew why they had to kill or got killed. 
      
    Kyleran
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,655
    Ungood said:
    Well the only FFA OW PvP games I play are Arena games, like Counter Strike, or Fortnight (in my case, I play Eternal Crusade)

    Well to be honest, one of things that I don't like in my PvP game is PvE bullshit.

    If I joined a PvP game, I want to PvP, I want classes, set up, gear, etc, balanced for PvP style play, on top of that, I want to log in, and kill and die in glorious battle, against like minded players.

    I don't want people out there crafting, or node harvesting, or hell, even "working on my swimming", or crying about how they were not here for the PvP, or even talking about "ganking" at all.. No.. go away.. this is a PvP game, lets PvP.

    If I wanted to play Farm-Simulator, or Blacksmith simulator, or do PvE bullshit in general, I'd just go play a PvE game. I do not log into a PvP game to kill NPC's, to harvest Nodes, or do anything else remotely mundane like that.

    Equally so, if I want to play some PvE game, where I am out harvesting nodes, or playing family sims castle builder or lets-learn-trade game.. I really don't want to deal with other players killing me and taking my stuff.

    The best Full Loot, PvP, OW, game ever made that combined PvE with PvP was Fortnight. It was the only game where the PvE and PvP were combined to make a true cooperative union of the two.

    And all the other stuff is people trying to mix two things that looks more like burnt trail mix in a bowl then a actual cobbler pie.
    That's the thing. If you want just Pvp then you agree that everybody should be on equal footing in terms of weapons and armor right? Because if you have to craft weapons, armors, build bases, get food, etc that's all forms of PvE. 
    Well you're the one who said "MMO." As soon as you say that you're talking about a type of game with built-in inequality.

    There are many types of games that are FFA and not MMOs and most of those create an even playing field. Traditional FPS were like that and so are modern BR games. A lot of people like those better precisely because they don't have the grind and you can just jump in and the only disparity is just how experienced or inexperienced with the game you are.

    MMOs with persistence are not like that. They are all about progressing from weakness to power and that creates a different type of disparity. MMOs that appear to do away with progression based disparity are just importing a separate FPS like mode into an MMO. GW2 is a good example of both types: WvWvW is traditional MMO PvP where progress you made in PvE matters. Arena PvP is the opposite and as such it's like an extra non-MMO PvP mode that has been tacked on.

    IMO PvP in MMOs with full use of progression is more suited to large persistent group battles with objectives control. Individual disparities between players are minimized and absorbed by the group. But all that type of PvP does for 1v1 is encourage whining about why you lost :)

    A lot of people don't get that and dismiss large scale PvP as just "zerging," but it's those zergs that create the possibility for more strategy with deployment. To me a well executed large scale PvP plan dreamed up on the fly is one hell of a lot more fun than any 1v1. Zerg vs. zerg in MMOs is what that PvP should be all about. Personally, I love it when done well.
    ScorchienKyleranSteelhelm
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Ungood said:
    Well the only FFA OW PvP games I play are Arena games, like Counter Strike, or Fortnight (in my case, I play Eternal Crusade)

    Well to be honest, one of things that I don't like in my PvP game is PvE bullshit.

    If I joined a PvP game, I want to PvP, I want classes, set up, gear, etc, balanced for PvP style play, on top of that, I want to log in, and kill and die in glorious battle, against like minded players.

    I don't want people out there crafting, or node harvesting, or hell, even "working on my swimming", or crying about how they were not here for the PvP, or even talking about "ganking" at all.. No.. go away.. this is a PvP game, lets PvP.

    If I wanted to play Farm-Simulator, or Blacksmith simulator, or do PvE bullshit in general, I'd just go play a PvE game. I do not log into a PvP game to kill NPC's, to harvest Nodes, or do anything else remotely mundane like that.

    Equally so, if I want to play some PvE game, where I am out harvesting nodes, or playing family sims castle builder or lets-learn-trade game.. I really don't want to deal with other players killing me and taking my stuff.

    The best Full Loot, PvP, OW, game ever made that combined PvE with PvP was Fortnight. It was the only game where the PvE and PvP were combined to make a true cooperative union of the two.

    And all the other stuff is people trying to mix two things that looks more like burnt trail mix in a bowl then a actual cobbler pie.
    That's the thing. If you want just Pvp then you agree that everybody should be on equal footing in terms of weapons and armor right? Because if you have to craft weapons, armors, build bases, get food, etc that's all forms of PvE. 
    No. There is no requirement to maintain equality within the game.

    Case in point, even in games everyone starts on equal footing, like Fortnight, all your gear is found as you play, so while we all may have started "equal" that changes VERY quick as the game moves forward. 
  • vegetableoilvegetableoil Member UncommonPosts: 290
    bcbully said:
    iixviiiix said:
    The lack of punishment for PK .
    Some assh*le create a mess , and when you finally put them down for good , they come back in matter of second .
    It make you question yourself , "why the heck i play this game?"
    Yep I agree, absolutely no punishment for pk, even with punishment people have ways to circumvent it. For example in age of wushu they have bounty, the pk'ers just tell his friend to kill him and split the bounty, also they implement jail  but if you are in a guild they can break you out. Then there is absolute worse is execution sentence, they create animations to chop the head off, but later the player respawn with only 1 hr debuff then he started killing again and laugh at the debuff.  Archeage is even dumber with court system only to have the jury filled with the pk'ers friends and just sets them free. some games even put rare material in only pvp areas to farm, this create also problems with large guild alliances controlling the area 24/7. and in the end you got fed up and really say "screw this game" The population of the game goes down, with less people even the gankers stop playing. It's just not healthy for the continuation of the game.
    Not really that simple. The process from bounty to jail, to jail break will take 30 mins to an hour, and you better have your A-Team doing the break. Jail guards are players summoned in. 

    Beheading, first the killer will be in the stocks up to 23 hours sometimes. The debuff 30% debuff last one day.

    Prison (after jail) There is no break. More times than I’d like to admit I sat there for 5 hours. You must remain online for time to count.

    These deterrents allowed a cultures to form were newbis were at worse untouched. At best fiercely defended. Where players knew what was right and wrong culturally. People knew why they had to kill or got killed. 
      
    well Last I played age of wushu was 3 years ago, but  jail break is less than 10 min, even with guard player, may be because I was no 1 monk at the time shrug. beheading didn't have that much penalty then. and yes for jail time people count it to be online, that's why people do jail break which is the problem not having enough penalties for pk'ers. a lot of newer pvp mmo doesn't even have penalties for open pvp
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,782
    The one thing that always bugs the hell out of me is OP crowd control...

      ex.. Bard Mezz in DAoC

      Let me fight FFS
    IselinKyleran
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,655
    Scorchien said:
    The one thing that always bugs the hell out of me is OP crowd control...

      ex.. Bard Mezz in DAoC

      Let me fight FFS
    Early DAoC is the poster child for how not to do CC in MMOs lol. I know a root is not as bothersome as a mez or stun but my Ice Theurgist could root an unlimited number of targets for something like 70 seconds.

    It was not unusual at all for me to root 40 players + at once. I was usually on stop or slow down the reinforcements duty :)
    Kyleran
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,283
    As some others mentioned I dislike PVP without consequence or purpose, no reason to do it just for funsies.

    I also wish more devs would use designs that shifted  more of the risk to the wolves,  instead of usually expecting the sheep to just suck it up all of the time.

    Imagine if every PVE target had the challenge and difficulty of taking down Monster hunter level boss?

    Think cavemen vs T-Rex, with really dull spears.

    ;)


    Panther2103

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  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,782
    Iselin said:
    Scorchien said:
    The one thing that always bugs the hell out of me is OP crowd control...

      ex.. Bard Mezz in DAoC

      Let me fight FFS
    Early DAoC is the poster child for how not to do CC in MMOs lol. I know a root is not as bothersome as a mez or stun but my Ice Theurgist could root an unlimited number of targets for something like 70 seconds.

    It was not unusual at all for me to root 40 players + at once. I was usually on stop or slow down the reinforcements duty :)
    Yes i hated you guys :)..

       But thourghly enjoyed broadsiding them with my Armsman, when ever the chance presented itself
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,886
    Big power gaps. 

    No objective slapped on PvE PvP settings

    Steelhelm
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 649
    No rules, which means kill on sight, which means the game becomes a glorified Moba.

    bcbully
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    TEKK3N said:
    No rules, which means kill on sight, which means the game becomes a glorified Moba.

    That is the thing right there, PvP MMO's are just glorified MOBA's, with a bunch of PvE crap added in to try and hide this.

    Kyleran
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,051
    edited August 14
    TEKK3N said:
    No rules, which means kill on sight, which means the game becomes a glorified Moba.

    I'll enjoy it if that is true. 

    The problem is I spend almost all my time farming(PvEing) in games with FFA pvp.  In fact that is what many people are doing and they are just sheep for the gankers(wolf).

    I think more often than not, pveing is more rewarding.  So you get many people just farming and grinding.  But there are people who just enjoy ganking, so you have a sheep and wolf game.  

    So I like RvR more.  Because everyone there want to pvp.  Instead of playing a game which is just people try to gank people who are farming.  I just hope there is more consequence in RvR game.  Or even if it is a massive 100 vs 100 moba that'll be fun.
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,949
    100 vs 100 MOBA sound fun indeed .
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