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This is beta?

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  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,557
    Gdemami said:
    Nyctelios said:
    What he is describing is a "pipeline" or a "method", not phases.
    Same thing.
    Not same thing at all and, welcome back.

    Methodology is the way you flow a system, pipeline is the flow itself and a phase is a stage in production.
    GdemamiHatefull
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,786
    *crickets* on the actual development notes that show exactly how alpha this game is really in. Have fun in the beta that is going to last another 2 years....that's being optimistic.  
    HatefullGdemami
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,814
    edited August 15
    Nyctelios said:
    Methodology is the way you flow a system, pipeline is the flow itself and a phase is a stage in production.
    Whether you change the process in each phase or you call it "new pipeline", methodology or w/e is the same.

    Again, there is a factual evidence that each developer is using same label for different development state and process.

    There is no point arguing that any further.

    There is a mountain of factors that will determine how you will call each development milestone - whether you are using out-of box engine, you are building your own, you are customizing one, when and how you want public or customers let in, whether you are crowdfunded fully, partially, what are your monetization and marketing plans, etc. etc.

    Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, w/e are just labels for milestones picked by devs and only thing they share is consecution - one follow another.

    alkarionlogHatefullKumapontweedledumb99
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,233
    Viper482 said:
    *crickets* on the actual development notes that show exactly how alpha this game is really in. Have fun in the beta that is going to last another 2 years....that's being optimistic.  
    I am not arguing that CS is diverging from the standard in game development. Having played this game, it is in NO WAY in a beta phase as they are still developing systems. Among (many) other things.

    Also, most people don't give a shit about anything you have to say. Ergo, crickets.
    GdemamiViper482

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,450
    Viper482 said:
    *crickets* on the actual development notes that show exactly how alpha this game is really in. Have fun in the beta that is going to last another 2 years....that's being optimistic.  
    Maybe we just don't care. I mean, not everyone is so fretful about this stuff.

    I gave my money but I also go into these things with the idea that "here's the money and we'll see what happens."

    If 10 years later they say "hey, we finished" then I'll say "hey, great, I'll play it and see if I like it."

    Anything else is just ridiculous given that many games don't even launch.

    But I don't follow these things with the idea of "hey, I've given money and you better deliver and deliver in a time frame I think of as reasonable or else I'll be unhappy!"

    To much energy for that.
    HatefullUngoodtweedledumb99



  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,557
    Gdemami said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Methodology is the way you flow a system, pipeline is the flow itself and a phase is a stage in production.
    Whether you change the process in each phase or you call it "new pipeline", methodology or w/e is the same.

    Again, there is a factual evidence that each developer is using same label for different development state and process.

    There is no point arguing that any further.

    There is a mountain of factors that will determine how you will call each development milestone - whether you are using out-of box engine, you are building your own, you are customizing one, when and how you want public or customers let in, whether you are crowdfunded fully, partially, what are your monetization and marketing plans, etc. etc.

    Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, w/e are just labels for milestones picked by devs and only thing they share is consecution - one follow another.

    You don't change the process. Pipeline is the process that encompass all the steps, phases, stages and so on. In an organic flow you exchange feedback, what is changed is the information/product/service, because it got feedback and evolved... sigh.

    I guess we must agree in one point, there is no point arguing that any further. You are complete unaware of what the application of scientific methodology in a pipeline is.
    GdemamiHatefull
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,814
    edited August 15
    Nyctelios said:
    application of scientific methodology in a pipeline is.
    ...random terms thrown together, no wonder you lack comprehension.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,786
    Hatefull said:
    Viper482 said:
    *crickets* on the actual development notes that show exactly how alpha this game is really in. Have fun in the beta that is going to last another 2 years....that's being optimistic.  
    I am not arguing that CS is diverging from the standard in game development. Having played this game, it is in NO WAY in a beta phase as they are still developing systems. Among (many) other things.

    Also, most people don't give a shit about anything you have to say. Ergo, crickets.
    Yet here you are posting in MY thread. Rofl
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,233
    edited August 15
    Viper482 said:
    Hatefull said:
    Viper482 said:
    *crickets* on the actual development notes that show exactly how alpha this game is really in. Have fun in the beta that is going to last another 2 years....that's being optimistic.  
    I am not arguing that CS is diverging from the standard in game development. Having played this game, it is in NO WAY in a beta phase as they are still developing systems. Among (many) other things.

    Also, most people don't give a shit about anything you have to say. Ergo, crickets.
    Yet here you are posting in MY thread. Rofl
    Yet not really addressing you. I felt bad, you're like that kid that states the obvious, then wonder why no one pays them any attention.

    Gdemami said:
    Nyctelios said:
    application of scientific methodology in a pipeline is.
    ...random terms thrown together, no wonder you lack comprehension.
    omg...are you seriously this ignorant?
    Gdemamitweedledumb99

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,786
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    *crickets* on the actual development notes that show exactly how alpha this game is really in. Have fun in the beta that is going to last another 2 years....that's being optimistic.  
    Maybe we just don't care. I mean, not everyone is so fretful about this stuff.

    I gave my money but I also go into these things with the idea that "here's the money and we'll see what happens."

    If 10 years later they say "hey, we finished" then I'll say "hey, great, I'll play it and see if I like it."

    Anything else is just ridiculous given that many games don't even launch.

    But I don't follow these things with the idea of "hey, I've given money and you better deliver and deliver in a time frame I think of as reasonable or else I'll be unhappy!"

    To much energy for that.
    Too many people strawman here....it is tiresome. Please show me one post complainin about the time it is taking. My ONLY complaint has been misrepresentation as to what phase of development the game is in. My post was to those trying to argue the game is past alpha. If you were not one of them it did not concern you.

    Gdemami
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,814
    Viper482 said:
    My ONLY complaint has been misrepresentation as to what phase of development the game is in. My post was to those trying to argue the game is past alpha.

    ....yeah, you know squat about software development but sure go ahead and tell those who do it for living that they do it wrong.

    /thread
    KumaponViper482tweedledumb99
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200
    Gdemami said:
    Viper482 said:
    My ONLY complaint has been misrepresentation as to what phase of development the game is in. My post was to those trying to argue the game is past alpha.

    ....yeah, you know squat about software development but sure go ahead and tell those who do it for living that they do it wrong.

    /thread
    Over budget by millions. Over schedule by years.
    ANY company/industry/person that is in that situation is "doing it wrong"
    This is basic common sense

    KyleranGdemamiHatefull

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    Hatefull said:
    Gdemami said:
    Nyctelios said:
    application of scientific methodology in a pipeline is.
    ...random terms thrown together, no wonder you lack comprehension.
    omg...are you seriously this ignorant?
    Should read some of his longer comments.
    Hatefull
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,488
    Gdemami said:
    Viper482 said:
    My ONLY complaint has been misrepresentation as to what phase of development the game is in. My post was to those trying to argue the game is past alpha.

    ....yeah, you know squat about software development but sure go ahead and tell those who do it for living that they do it wrong.

    /thread
    Over budget by millions. Over schedule by years.
    ANY company/industry/person that is in that situation is "doing it wrong"
    This is basic common sense

    Common sense isn't all that common, at least not in gaming forums.


    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    There are a whole lot of words going on about a game that way too many of the busy bodies will play for a little while, and then cry that it not what they thought it should be and not as good as they remember the predecessor to be.. 

    Just saying... 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,488
    I can top that, while I am an alpha backer, I'm not really interested in playing the game anymore, seems I've outgrown or grown weary of waiting for it to release.

    But slagging on it....still entertaining and I'm sure will be for many years to come.

    Busy, busy, busy....down the rabbit hole we go.


    ;)


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,814
    edited August 16
    ANY company/industry/person that is in that situation is "doing it wrong"
    This is basic common sense

    ...yeah, because you do have a factual experience how it works in the industry...oh, wait...

    Your common sense is very uncommon, unsuprisingly.
    Kumapon
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200
    Gdemami said:
    ANY company/industry/person that is in that situation is "doing it wrong"
    This is basic common sense

    ...yeah, because you do have a factual experience how it works in the industry...oh, wait...

    Your common sense is very uncommon, unsuprisingly.
    Ummm...  MJ has publically apologized and talked about the embarrassment of being years and years behind schedule.  He has mentioned and listed many mistakes and learnings.  This is one of the reasons that I will never ask for a refund even though he allows them. So yeah, I think when even the developer admits that he did things wrong its pretty obvious that they did in fact... do things wrong.

    Common sense.


    Or perhaps you can educate the rest of us and explain how being years behind schedule, millions over budget, and having a CEO explain that mistakes and wrong assumptions were made... is actually doing it right?  And then maybe you can explain that to MJ as well?
     
    Kylerankenguru23Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,450
    Viper482 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    *crickets* on the actual development notes that show exactly how alpha this game is really in. Have fun in the beta that is going to last another 2 years....that's being optimistic.  
    Maybe we just don't care. I mean, not everyone is so fretful about this stuff.

    I gave my money but I also go into these things with the idea that "here's the money and we'll see what happens."

    If 10 years later they say "hey, we finished" then I'll say "hey, great, I'll play it and see if I like it."

    Anything else is just ridiculous given that many games don't even launch.

    But I don't follow these things with the idea of "hey, I've given money and you better deliver and deliver in a time frame I think of as reasonable or else I'll be unhappy!"

    To much energy for that.
    Too many people strawman here....it is tiresome. Please show me one post complainin about the time it is taking. My ONLY complaint has been misrepresentation as to what phase of development the game is in. My post was to those trying to argue the game is past alpha. If you were not one of them it did not concern you.

    Not a strawman. You are the one fishing for "something" with your crickets response.

    It's as if you expected a thread of outrage that you could participate in. Nice job.

    Also, I didn't say anything about "other people" in this thread complaining or complaining about time taken.

    Just an general example of people who look at what is offered and have issues of where the game is which is what your very sparse original post with no actual information, just a video, led me to believe.

    It seemed that it was you who was complaining on what was being shown with no clear idea as to your point. I took it that it was "you" having issue with where the game was at this time. Again, you provided no information, just a video.


    Hatefull



  • meddyckmeddyck Member UncommonPosts: 1,279
    There is a test for everybody who has Beta 2 or better access this weekend. If you want a clear answer on whether the current test stage is more like Alpha or more like Beta 1, go reread the Beta 1 doc on the official site then compare what is described in that doc to what you see during the test.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • Shooter564567Shooter564567 Member UncommonPosts: 47
    why does this games graphics look like pure shit
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,488
    why does this games graphics look like pure shit
    You already know the answer, still in beta, will be improved before release, blah de blah...

    Still...City State has a limited budget to build the game and has spent a good portion of it on developing and optimizing their own game engine which is all about the back end, so graphics will always be sub par to some people's expectations.


    Phry

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 2,648
    edited September 7
    They do a lot of flapping their gums about how wonderfully everything is advancing, but they're sure keeping that NDA clamped down tight as a clam's ass.
    Post edited by MightyUnclean on
    KyleranHatefullJamesGoblin
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,786
    edited September 7
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    *crickets* on the actual development notes that show exactly how alpha this game is really in. Have fun in the beta that is going to last another 2 years....that's being optimistic.  
    Maybe we just don't care. I mean, not everyone is so fretful about this stuff.

    I gave my money but I also go into these things with the idea that "here's the money and we'll see what happens."

    If 10 years later they say "hey, we finished" then I'll say "hey, great, I'll play it and see if I like it."

    Anything else is just ridiculous given that many games don't even launch.

    But I don't follow these things with the idea of "hey, I've given money and you better deliver and deliver in a time frame I think of as reasonable or else I'll be unhappy!"

    To much energy for that.
    Too many people strawman here....it is tiresome. Please show me one post complainin about the time it is taking. My ONLY complaint has been misrepresentation as to what phase of development the game is in. My post was to those trying to argue the game is past alpha. If you were not one of them it did not concern you.

    Not a strawman. You are the one fishing for "something" with your crickets response.

    It's as if you expected a thread of outrage that you could participate in. Nice job.

    Also, I didn't say anything about "other people" in this thread complaining or complaining about time taken.

    Just an general example of people who look at what is offered and have issues of where the game is which is what your very sparse original post with no actual information, just a video, led me to believe.

    It seemed that it was you who was complaining on what was being shown with no clear idea as to your point. I took it that it was "you" having issue with where the game was at this time. Again, you provided no information, just a video.



    Fact....you tried to change the premise of my argument in that I was angry it was taking too long when I never even implied that....that is called strawman. I offered plenty of information other than the video in this thread. The game is in pre-alpha or alpha 1 at best, this whole talk of beta is bullshit and is dishonest. That is all my point is. And I really don't give a shit if you or anyone else joins my outrage, my thoughts....my thread. 

    Agree or don't, either way is fine with me. But don't make up shit regarding what I am complaining about.

    With that....here are some more awesome "beta" notes from today!

    1. WIP - Tech - NavMesh: This week, Lee spent time debugging the 3D-ification of the navmesh.  Unfortunately, there are still a few problems with how it's being updated internally when new obstacles are added to the navmesh, so there's a bit of fix-up work to still be done there. The path-planning itself will need to be updated to use the new 3D info appropriately. Lots to do, but we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel!

     

    1. WIP - Tech - Tools: Rob finished his first pass on the transformer gizmo for the editor, and it is now available for use by our devs. The 3D math has been defeated, the colors have been adjusted, and the code has been pushed. This gizmo will greatly speed up placing and editing assets in a zone.

     

    1. WIP - Tech - Servers: As we are wrapping up our cost-saving Linuxification of the servers, Colin converted the game server to .Net Core (the last of the managed servers he’s been converting) this week. The next step is to figure out how to deploy and run the servers on Linux.

     

    1. Tech - Trigger Volumes: Caleb has landed trigger volumes! They include a fair bit of interesting support bits: Changes to Entity Destruction, Event forwarding, and stronger guarantees about the ordering of entity/physics life cycle events. This will unlock the ability for us to have traps and more interesting scripting in the world, and paves the way toward auras, which we want to use for the Support archetype.
       
    2. WIP - Tech - Traps: Christina worked on traps this week. Using the trigger volume tech that Caleb landed she was able to prototype out a few trap types. These are using temp art, but are functional.

     

    1. WIP - Tech - Prediction: Matt started investigating and fixing thread safety issues on the server that deal with ability prediction and execution. This issue has been causing abilities to randomly fail for a few months now.
       
    2. Tech - NPC/Creature Variation: Mike and Matt landed a first pass to add more variation to non-player characters. This includes variable body and gear tinting, as well as variable size and equipped gear. This will obviously give us much more visual variation in things such as NPCs or creatures without requiring additional work from Art.
       
    3. Art - Weapons: We created a new Arthurian axe based off an older concept. This one was what we call “epic-looking” as it just looks a bit more awesome than what you might consider a basic axe.
       
    4. Art - Armor: We completed a texture pass on a couple of new helmets as well as some Arthurian heavy armor. This helps audit the assets for later crafting and tinting tech.
       
    5. Art - Procedural Materials: In our continued use of Substance Designer, we’ve become more adept at creating one-off items, such as locks, chains, rope, handles, etc. Again, once created, the ability to make tweaks after the fact greatly improves our iteration time.
       
    6. Art - VFX - Weapon Trail Investigation: We tested some faster melee abilities, which required Mike to go in and audit existing weapon trails that were breaking. This additionally showed us a limitation in the current tech that may need some additional work. Mike is also working to add more sprites for various incoming abilities.
       
    7. WIP - Art - Animation: Sandra has been working on an NPC animation set for our previously shown mage draugar. As they don’t have legs, per concept, it makes the animation work a bit easier and also helps them stand out.

    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
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