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This is beta?

Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,763
Make MMORPG's Great Again!
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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,308
    edited August 9
    Viper482 said:
    "MJ's Pathfinding Demo"


    Next weekend they are opening up the game to Beta 2 players, fyi.
    KyleranHatefullAxxartweedledumb99



  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,763
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    "MJ's Pathfinding Demo"


    Next weekend they are opening up the game to Beta 2 players, fyi.

    I just can't believe they are trying to sell the fact they are in beta phase when it looks more like alpha.
    GdemamimeddyckAxxar
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,139
    Viper482 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    "MJ's Pathfinding Demo"


    Next weekend they are opening up the game to Beta 2 players, fyi.

    I just can't believe they are trying to sell the fact they are in beta phase when it looks more like alpha.
    That is not actually the beta.  Thats demonstrating a dev tool
    mcrippinsAgent_JosephultimateduckHatefullNephethtweedledumb99Gdemamibcbully

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,763
    Viper482 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    "MJ's Pathfinding Demo"


    Next weekend they are opening up the game to Beta 2 players, fyi.

    I just can't believe they are trying to sell the fact they are in beta phase when it looks more like alpha.
    That is not actually the beta.  Thats demonstrating a dev tool

    The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
    GdemamiSinsai
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • mcrippinsmcrippins Member RarePosts: 1,423
    Viper482 said:

    The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
    Are you a game developer? Just curious to know how credible your opinion actually is. 
    GdemamiHatefullSinsaiNephethtweedledumb99Roin
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,139
    Viper482 said:
    Viper482 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    "MJ's Pathfinding Demo"


    Next weekend they are opening up the game to Beta 2 players, fyi.

    I just can't believe they are trying to sell the fact they are in beta phase when it looks more like alpha.
    That is not actually the beta.  Thats demonstrating a dev tool

    The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
    Personally, as long as they let me into the game to see for myself (which they do) and let me refund my money if I grow frustrated (they do) I'm fine with it.  Is it a joke that they missed their release date by years and years?  Sure... but at least if the joke gets to be too much I can get my money back.  Hasn't hit that level yet.
     
    Gdemamitweedledumb99

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,763
    mcrippins said:
    Viper482 said:

    The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
    Are you a game developer? Just curious to know how credible your opinion actually is. 

    First of all, my opinion is just that....MY opinion. Saying that, I have been playing PC games since the early 90's and have participated in dozens of REAL alphas and betas so yea, I've got an idea in MY mind as to what a beta stage should look like. I BACKED this game with $100 of MY money, so forgive me if I don't give a shit if you find my opinion credible or not. Calling alpha beta does not make it beta. When's the last time you played this game Mr. Credibility?
    RenndGdemamimeddyckSinsaiNephethesc-joconnornatpick
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • mcrippinsmcrippins Member RarePosts: 1,423
    Viper482 said:
    mcrippins said:
    Viper482 said:

    The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
    Are you a game developer? Just curious to know how credible your opinion actually is. 

    First of all, my opinion is just that....MY opinion. Saying that, I have been playing PC games since the early 90's and have participated in dozens of REAL alphas and betas so yea, I've got an idea in MY mind as to what a beta stage should look like. I BACKED this game with $100 of MY money, so forgive me if I don't give a shit if you find my opinion credible or not. Calling alpha beta does not make it beta. When's the last time you played this game Mr. Credibility?
    Not sure if there's an NDA, so I'm not going to risk breaking it. If you've really been gaming and beta testing since the 90s, then you should also know that what passes for alpha/beta these days could be anything. I asked if your opinion was credible because I genuinely wanted to know if you were someone from the industry who had participated in the games' testing and made that statement. Because that would hold some water. As it turns out, you're not that person.
    RenndGdemamiHatefullSinsaiNephethtweedledumb99
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,308
    Viper482 said:
    mcrippins said:
    Viper482 said:

    The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
    Are you a game developer? Just curious to know how credible your opinion actually is. 

    First of all, my opinion is just that....MY opinion. Saying that, I have been playing PC games since the early 90's and have participated in dozens of REAL alphas and betas so yea, I've got an idea in MY mind as to what a beta stage should look like. I BACKED this game with $100 of MY money, so forgive me if I don't give a shit if you find my opinion credible or not. Calling alpha beta does not make it beta. When's the last time you played this game Mr. Credibility?
    Well then, next weekend you can log in and see for yourself. Remember, what they have been working on, at least from my brief glances at what they send me because they make it so boring and dry, is combat, getting huge amounts of players on the screen, and building. As far as I knew, they weren't going to have npc's so perhaps npc's is a new thing. In any case, log in and see for yourself.
    KyleranHatefullSinsaitweedledumb99



  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,139
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    mcrippins said:
    Viper482 said:

    The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
    Are you a game developer? Just curious to know how credible your opinion actually is. 

    First of all, my opinion is just that....MY opinion. Saying that, I have been playing PC games since the early 90's and have participated in dozens of REAL alphas and betas so yea, I've got an idea in MY mind as to what a beta stage should look like. I BACKED this game with $100 of MY money, so forgive me if I don't give a shit if you find my opinion credible or not. Calling alpha beta does not make it beta. When's the last time you played this game Mr. Credibility?
    Well then, next weekend you can log in and see for yourself. Remember, what they have been working on, at least from my brief glances at what they send me because they make it so boring and dry, is combat, getting huge amounts of players on the screen, and building. As far as I knew, they weren't going to have npc's so perhaps npc's is a new thing. In any case, log in and see for yourself.
    All I can guess is that those NPCs are mostly guards.   I think MJ at one point also talked about NPCs but that they would not be there for XP.  Been so long since the KS though... who knows.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • meddyckmeddyck Member UncommonPosts: 1,278
    In hindsight it was a mistake for this stage of development to be called "Beta 1" instead of "Alpha 2." The latter more accurately describes it.
    GdemamiViper482Hatefulltweedledumb99

    Camelot Unchained Backer
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  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,763
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    mcrippins said:
    Viper482 said:

    The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
    Are you a game developer? Just curious to know how credible your opinion actually is. 

    First of all, my opinion is just that....MY opinion. Saying that, I have been playing PC games since the early 90's and have participated in dozens of REAL alphas and betas so yea, I've got an idea in MY mind as to what a beta stage should look like. I BACKED this game with $100 of MY money, so forgive me if I don't give a shit if you find my opinion credible or not. Calling alpha beta does not make it beta. When's the last time you played this game Mr. Credibility?
    Well then, next weekend you can log in and see for yourself. Remember, what they have been working on, at least from my brief glances at what they send me because they make it so boring and dry, is combat, getting huge amounts of players on the screen, and building. As far as I knew, they weren't going to have npc's so perhaps npc's is a new thing. In any case, log in and see for yourself.

    I do login every now and then to see progress....which is exactly why I don't believe this game is in beta. From what I have experienced it is still very much an alpha. They missed several beta dates and ended up just calling it beta to avoid another, which is dishonest imo. I would put this game as not fully finished product for another 2 years. But knowing them "early access" will be right around the corner.
    Gdemami
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,763
    meddyck said:
    In hindsight it was a mistake for this stage of development to be called "Beta 1" instead of "Alpha 2." The latter more accurately describes it.
    Exactly my point.
    Gdemami
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,763
    mcrippins said:
    Viper482 said:
    mcrippins said:
    Viper482 said:

    The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
    Are you a game developer? Just curious to know how credible your opinion actually is. 

    First of all, my opinion is just that....MY opinion. Saying that, I have been playing PC games since the early 90's and have participated in dozens of REAL alphas and betas so yea, I've got an idea in MY mind as to what a beta stage should look like. I BACKED this game with $100 of MY money, so forgive me if I don't give a shit if you find my opinion credible or not. Calling alpha beta does not make it beta. When's the last time you played this game Mr. Credibility?
    Not sure if there's an NDA, so I'm not going to risk breaking it. If you've really been gaming and beta testing since the 90s, then you should also know that what passes for alpha/beta these days could be anything. I asked if your opinion was credible because I genuinely wanted to know if you were someone from the industry who had participated in the games' testing and made that statement. Because that would hold some water. As it turns out, you're not that person.
    Yes, in the days of early release yes, beta/alpha could mean anything. And no, I am not that person....I am a gamer/paying customer on forums who has an opinion on a product I put $100 out for. Sorry to disappoint, can't say I care.
    Gdemami
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,725
    edited August 12
    meddyck said:
    In hindsight it was a mistake for this stage of development to be called "Beta 1" instead of "Alpha 2." The latter more accurately describes it.
    ...you remind me of people calling F2P not being "FREE" because you can spend money in the game.
    OG_ZorvanViper482alkarionlog
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,308
    Viper482 said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    mcrippins said:
    Viper482 said:

    The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
    Are you a game developer? Just curious to know how credible your opinion actually is. 

    First of all, my opinion is just that....MY opinion. Saying that, I have been playing PC games since the early 90's and have participated in dozens of REAL alphas and betas so yea, I've got an idea in MY mind as to what a beta stage should look like. I BACKED this game with $100 of MY money, so forgive me if I don't give a shit if you find my opinion credible or not. Calling alpha beta does not make it beta. When's the last time you played this game Mr. Credibility?
    Well then, next weekend you can log in and see for yourself. Remember, what they have been working on, at least from my brief glances at what they send me because they make it so boring and dry, is combat, getting huge amounts of players on the screen, and building. As far as I knew, they weren't going to have npc's so perhaps npc's is a new thing. In any case, log in and see for yourself.

    I do login every now and then to see progress....which is exactly why I don't believe this game is in beta. From what I have experienced it is still very much an alpha. They missed several beta dates and ended up just calling it beta to avoid another, which is dishonest imo. I would put this game as not fully finished product for another 2 years. But knowing them "early access" will be right around the corner.
    Isn't the actual difference between alpha and beta that alpha still has new features added/features subtracted, while beta is supposed to see no new features and that what is in the product is then to be worked on, fixed, polished?

    I can't say, I only have beta 2 access so have not signed in to see what's what. But if they aren't introducing anything "new" then no matter the state of things it would be considered beta. Well, that's what's supposed to happen anyway. 

    Not sure what game developers are thinking these days.
    Viper482



  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,725
    edited August 12
    Sovrath said:
    Isn't the actual difference between alpha and beta
    No.

    The only difference is that Beta comes after Alpha. That is all there is to those designations.
    tweedledumb99OG_Zorvankenguru23Viper482alkarionlog
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,346
    edited August 12
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    "MJ's Pathfinding Demo"


    Next weekend they are opening up the game to Beta 2 players, fyi.
    Did they formally announce they are moving in the Beta 2 phase, or is this still Beta 1 with access to a broader pool of testers?

    World of difference whether the former vs the latter.
    Hatefull

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,308
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    "MJ's Pathfinding Demo"


    Next weekend they are opening up the game to Beta 2 players, fyi.
    Did they formally announce they are moving in the Beta 2 phase, or is this still Beta 1 with access to a broader pool of testers?

    World of difference whether the former vs the latter.
    I think it's beta 1 with a broader pool of testers.
    Kylerantweedledumb99Hatefull



  • GeekyGeeky Member UncommonPosts: 382
    I gave $325 for this game and I, just like you, get the Alpha/Beta/IT tester invites that come out ever few weeks.  If you don't get those log in to their site and make sure you're signed up for them.  Then you can log in during a test session and see their progress.
    Hatefull
  • jeeshadowjeeshadow Member UncommonPosts: 133
    Does Beta 2 mean a huge update then?  Is Beta 2 a more persistant test or is it still just chosen weekends?

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,219
    Gdemami said:
    Sovrath said:
    Isn't the actual difference between alpha and beta
    No.

    The only difference is that Beta comes after Alpha. That is all there is to those designations.
    False. @Sovrath is correct. 

    Alpha is still systems development, in beta, all systems are more or less complete it's just tweaking and making sure they work together.
    GdemamiSinsaitweedledumb99

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,725
    Hatefull said:
    Alpha is still systems development, in beta, all systems are more or less complete it's just tweaking and making sure they work together.
    ...armchair dev manual quote. 

    OG_Zorvanalkarionlog
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,308
    jeeshadow said:
    Does Beta 2 mean a huge update then?  Is Beta 2 a more persistant test or is it still just chosen weekends?

    Don't know, but it's important to note that they still consider this "beta 1."
    tweedledumb99



  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,139
    Gdemami said:
    Hatefull said:
    Alpha is still systems development, in beta, all systems are more or less complete it's just tweaking and making sure they work together.
    ...armchair dev manual quote. 

    If you have a copy can you send it on to these Crowdfunding devs?  Seems they all could use a dose of common sense.  Also, please highlight chapter 2: Gantt Charts, Their Uses and Limitations.

    I found it most useful.
    GdemamiKylerantweedledumb99OG_Zorvan

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

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