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No evidence video games cause mass shootings

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  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,912
    "Just like a Nuclear Warhead is neither good nor evil, it is just a thing, it is not the weapon that is the problem, it is who has it."

    Nope your wrong a Nuclear Warhead is 1000% evil


    We shall simply disagree, as a warhead is just an object and an object cannot be good or evil, anymore than a rock can be good or evil. For something to be evil, requires motive and intent, something that all objects lack.

    Now.. you could argue that the motive behind making a Warhead is 1000% evil, that the need to have and build a weapon of such devastation is the apex of human evilness and insanity.. that could be its own great discussion. 

    But one I have no intention of having.
    KyleranPhryalkarionlog
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,901
    Kyleran said:


    Sometimes I think the Purge movies are ever closer to becoming a reality.


    LOL, when I first watched those movies, it was one of the first things I thought. "Wow, I could actually see some politician pulling this. Scary."
    When they first came out I thought no way, but after events of the past 4 years I'm  not so sure.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,293
    laserit said:
    IMHO

    Desperate people do desperate things.

    Whats making them so desperate?
    Politicians and religious fundamentalists inciting division.

    If you read up on most of these mass shooting incidents you'll notice a common thread of extreme hate for some group or another. If Moslem extremists leaders can incite people to volunteer to be suicide bombers and we rightly blame the leaders for inciting the violence, why is it so hard for people to understand who is to blame when it's Americans going on a killing rampage?
    wingoodklash2deflaseritbcbullygervaise1
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  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,595
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    IMHO

    Desperate people do desperate things.

    Whats making them so desperate?
    Politicians and religious fundamentalists inciting division.

    If you read up on most of these mass shooting incidents you'll notice a common thread of extreme hate for some group or another. If Moslem extremists leaders can incite people to volunteer to be suicide bombers and we rightly blame the leaders for inciting the violence, why is it so hard for people to understand who is to blame when it's Americans going on a killing rampage?
    this exactly! It's confusing to me...but I remember that a lot of people would rather be willfully ignorant, and obtuse than to be honest. Everyone knows exactly what is inciting all this violence. It's painfully obvious yet and still... let's blame mental health and video games.

    right...


    AS I said there millions of people who play video games and suffer from mental health issues. If those things were the real reason, there would be a shit-ton more mass shootings and that's saying a lot because there are already WAY too many in just the last 3 years.  

    I tend to believe there is something else going on and it starts at the leadership. It's ridiculous that it has to be explained. 
    ragebullet
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "Fear is the most dangerous power"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,569
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    IMHO

    Desperate people do desperate things.

    Whats making them so desperate?
    Politicians and religious fundamentalists inciting division.

    If you read up on most of these mass shooting incidents you'll notice a common thread of extreme hate for some group or another. If Moslem extremists leaders can incite people to volunteer to be suicide bombers and we rightly blame the leaders for inciting the violence, why is it so hard for people to understand who is to blame when it's Americans going on a killing rampage?
    this exactly! It's confusing to me...but I remember that a lot of people would rather be willfully ignorant, and obtuse than to be honest. Everyone knows exactly what is inciting all this violence. It's painfully obvious yet and still... let's blame mental health and video games.

    right...


    AS I said there millions of people who play video games and suffer from mental health issues. If those things were the real reason, there would be a shit-ton more mass shootings and that's saying a lot because there are already WAY too many in just the last 3 years.  

    I tend to believe there is something else going on and it starts at the leadership. It's ridiculous that it has to be explained. 
    Look I am not a fan of Donald Trump but he is not the cause of all this. At least not willingly. I think Donald Trump is a lot like my grandma. She says something and to her it sounds good but you try to tell her how bad that sounded she gets embarrassed and defensive. I think Donald Trump is a lot like that. He says things without thinking and probably doesn't even realize how bad it sounds on paper.

    I mean people on the inside have said as much. That is truly baffled by people taking his words as racist. That doesn't make headlines though. Websites get more clicks OR its talked about more if the article's headline is, "What Racist thing has Donald Trump said now." 
    Slapshot1188Axxar
    Currently playing: Witcher 3 (Xbox One X), TemTem

    Currently Reading: Oathbringer (Stormlight Archive Book 3)

    Currently Writing: Champions of Legend Book 1 (2nd Draft)


  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,569
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:


    Sometimes I think the Purge movies are ever closer to becoming a reality.


    LOL, when I first watched those movies, it was one of the first things I thought. "Wow, I could actually see some politician pulling this. Scary."
    When they first came out I thought no way, but after events of the past 4 years I'm  not so sure.
    The purge could never happen in real life. Even IF enough people voted for it to pass, for whatever reason, it would only last a night. Can you imagine almost getting killed by your co-worker and then having to go back to work with them the next day? The purge in reality would never work. It wouldn't reduce crimes it would escalate them. 

    Plus in The Purge all crimes are legal. It would take 1 night for thousands of hackers to steal a shit ton of money or people's information and it would be over.
    Currently playing: Witcher 3 (Xbox One X), TemTem

    Currently Reading: Oathbringer (Stormlight Archive Book 3)

    Currently Writing: Champions of Legend Book 1 (2nd Draft)


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,595
    Ungood said:
    "Just like a Nuclear Warhead is neither good nor evil, it is just a thing, it is not the weapon that is the problem, it is who has it."

    Nope your wrong a Nuclear Warhead is 1000% evil


    We shall simply disagree, as a warhead is just an object and an object cannot be good or evil, anymore than a rock can be good or evil. For something to be evil, requires motive and intent, something that all objects lack.

    Now.. you could argue that the motive behind making a Warhead is 1000% evil, that the need to have and build a weapon of such devastation is the apex of human evilness and insanity.. that could be its own great discussion. 

    But one I have no intention of having.
    Well, I don't think anyone here is saying objects can reason or make choices. You are basically saying the same thing he is saying if you take semantics out of it. The bottom line is what here? 
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "Fear is the most dangerous power"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,374
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    IMHO

    Desperate people do desperate things.

    Whats making them so desperate?
    Politicians and religious fundamentalists inciting division.

    If you read up on most of these mass shooting incidents you'll notice a common thread of extreme hate for some group or another. If Moslem extremists leaders can incite people to volunteer to be suicide bombers and we rightly blame the leaders for inciting the violence, why is it so hard for people to understand who is to blame when it's Americans going on a killing rampage?
    this exactly! It's confusing to me...but I remember that a lot of people would rather be willfully ignorant, and obtuse than to be honest. Everyone knows exactly what is inciting all this violence. It's painfully obvious yet and still... let's blame mental health and video games.

    right...


    AS I said there millions of people who play video games and suffer from mental health issues. If those things were the real reason, there would be a shit-ton more mass shootings and that's saying a lot because there are already WAY too many in just the last 3 years.  

    I tend to believe there is something else going on and it starts at the leadership. It's ridiculous that it has to be explained. 
    Here is my take:

    There is not one golden solution.   There are many different reasons and thus many different solutions.   At it's heart we have a culture that more and more separates into "Us vs Them" camps.  We also have a culture that is totally awash in violent images.   Certainly those games, movies, shows are not THE reason for ALL shootings, but I think it would be wise to at least consider that SOME people can be influenced by the devaluation of life depicted in movies, TV shows and games. And SOME people can then act out on those sick fantasies.

    I dunno about you but when I watched the Karate Kid as a child I was practicing the Crane kick.  When I saw Rocky I was playing that Rocky Theme in my Walkman (haha) while exercising. Those movies inspired me, at least for a short while... to do something in real life.

    Is it SOOO far fetched to think that SOME people can be similarly influenced by violent games, movies and shows?  I have never felt the compulsion to drink excessively but I understand that some people cannot just have 1 drink.  It affects each of us differently.

    I have never felt the urge to pick up a gun or sword in real life to mow down people after playing a Battlefield game, but I am also not arrogant enough to project my experience on the millions of other people playing.  After all... it's only a handful of those millions that do this.  There are roughly 131,000,000 people who have a firearm at home in the US.  Just a minuscule fraction of a percent of those are involved in a mass shooting.

    There are over 200,000,000 people that play some kind of video game in the US (no idea what percent play violent games but lets be honest.. there are a lot). Is it so far fetched to believe that a minuscule fraction of those (same as above) could be influenced to act out some violent fantasy because they spent hours and hours murdering people in a video game?

    I am not saying we should ban anything.  I am saying that we should not be so dismissive of looking into every cause.  We have a huge population.  It is literally a fraction of a fraction of a percent that commits these crimes.  I do know that movies have motivated me to do things or change behavior in real life.  I do not think it totally far fetched to believe that SOME people can be similarly swayed to act out violent fantasies.

    Did you never watch a movie, TV show... or listen to some music and get inspired to do something?  Hopefully something good... but I think we have ALL been influenced by entertainment to some degree, haven't we?


    klash2def

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 488
    edited August 2019
    It's not good. Something is messed up. It's just another reason for some group or another to incite their agenda. Another reason for more freedoms to be eroded.

    Below is some supporting evidence to back up the assertion there's a rise in school shootings, if not mass shootings.

    Rapid rise in mass school shootings in the United States, study shows

    "In less than 18 years, we have already seen more deaths related to school shootings than in the whole 20th century. One alarming trend is that the overwhelming majority of 21st-century shooters were adolescents, suggesting that it is now easier for them to access guns, and that they more frequently suffer from mental health issues or limited conflict resolution skills," says Katsiyannis
    So in the whole 20th century there were 25 shooters, 55 deaths and 260 injuries. From 2000 to 2018, the above research shows 13 lone shooters responsible for the deaths of 66 people and 81 injuries. In the 20th century, only 60 percent of the shooters were adolescent, but in the 21st century almost all of them were adolescents--and more of them were already diagnosed with mental health issues.

    So the takeaway is:
    1) modern school shooters are more lethal, killing more targets
    2) they're younger
    3) more of them are already diagnosed with mental illnesses

    To investigate the mental health question, I offer a link below.

    Supporting link:

    The evidence does show a connection between mental illness and various violent episodes, over the normal population, however it's more complicated, strongly influenced by things like substance abuse, socioeconomic status, male gender (responsible for 97% of all mass shootings for example) and being younger. In fact, these factors seem to be largely responsible, as opposed to mental illness alone.

    Some passages from the above link are shown below:
    ...The study painted a picture of a group of individuals with serious and disabling mental health conditions, but also a marginalized group with very low social capital—mostly unemployed, economically impoverished, typically residing in disadvantaged neighborhoods, often misusing alcohol and illicit drugs, and reporting alarmingly high rates of trauma and violent victimization over their life course. Many of these characteristics and experiences were found to be highly significant correlates of violent behavior. Conversely, participants in the study who merely had a diagnosis of serious mental illness but did not have a history of violent victimization, were not exposed to neighborhood violence, and were not abusing drugs or alcohol, had annual rates of violent behavior in line with the general population without any mental illness—about 2% [30]. Evidence from studies in criminology and developmental epidemiology has shown that risk factors for crime and violence are similar in persons with mental illness and in the general population, and that risk exposure often begins early in life [31], [32]. The ECA, MVRAS, and five-state findings tended to support that view, in part.
    (these are separate quotes)
    Gallup polling data from January, 2013 showed that 48% of adult Americans blame the mental health system “a great deal” for mass shootings in the United States, whereas fewer (40%) blame easy access to guns; an inadequate mental health system is perceived as the top cause of mass shootings [86]. Our failing mental health-care system on the one hand and gun violence on the other are each complex, important, but different public health problems facing the US—problems that intersect at their edges. More research to support effective policies and implementation is needed in both arenas. Public attention to the mass shootings—too often fueled by ill-informed and sensationalized media portrayals that overgeneralize the connection between mental illness and violence—must be redirected and channeled to build support for evidence-based policies both to improve mental health care and reduce gun violence, in ways that will promote public safety without increasing stigma and unnecessarily infringing on the rights and privacy of people with mental health conditions.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 213
    It is a funny world we live in.
    We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    IMHO

    Desperate people do desperate things.

    Whats making them so desperate?
    Politicians and religious fundamentalists inciting division.

    If you read up on most of these mass shooting incidents you'll notice a common thread of extreme hate for some group or another. If Moslem extremists leaders can incite people to volunteer to be suicide bombers and we rightly blame the leaders for inciting the violence, why is it so hard for people to understand who is to blame when it's Americans going on a killing rampage?
    this exactly! It's confusing to me...but I remember that a lot of people would rather be willfully ignorant, and obtuse than to be honest. Everyone knows exactly what is inciting all this violence. It's painfully obvious yet and still... let's blame mental health and video games.

    right...


    AS I said there millions of people who play video games and suffer from mental health issues. If those things were the real reason, there would be a shit-ton more mass shootings and that's saying a lot because there are already WAY too many in just the last 3 years.  

    I tend to believe there is something else going on and it starts at the leadership. It's ridiculous that it has to be explained. 
    Here is my take:

    There is not one golden solution.   There are many different reasons and thus many different solutions.   At it's heart we have a culture that more and more separates into "Us vs Them" camps.  We also have a culture that is totally awash in violent images.   Certainly those games, movies, shows are not THE reason for ALL shootings, but I think it would be wise to at least consider that SOME people can be influenced by the devaluation of life depicted in movies, TV shows and games. And SOME people can then act out on those sick fantasies.

    I dunno about you but when I watched the Karate Kid as a child I was practicing the Crane kick.  When I saw Rocky I was playing that Rocky Theme in my Walkman (haha) while exercising. Those movies inspired me, at least for a short while... to do something in real life.

    Is it SOOO far fetched to think that SOME people can be similarly influenced by violent games, movies and shows?  I have never felt the compulsion to drink excessively but I understand that some people cannot just have 1 drink.  It affects each of us differently.

    I have never felt the urge to pick up a gun or sword in real life to mow down people after playing a Battlefield game, but I am also not arrogant enough to project my experience on the millions of other people playing.  After all... it's only a handful of those millions that do this.  There are roughly 131,000,000 people who have a firearm at home in the US.  Just a minuscule fraction of a percent of those are involved in a mass shooting.

    There are over 200,000,000 people that play some kind of video game in the US (no idea what percent play violent games but lets be honest.. there are a lot). Is it so far fetched to believe that a minuscule fraction of those (same as above) could be influenced to act out some violent fantasy because they spent hours and hours murdering people in a video game?

    I am not saying we should ban anything.  I am saying that we should not be so dismissive of looking into every cause.  We have a huge population.  It is literally a fraction of a fraction of a percent that commits these crimes.  I do know that movies have motivated me to do things or change behavior in real life.  I do not think it totally far fetched to believe that SOME people can be similarly swayed to act out violent fantasies.

    Did you never watch a movie, TV show... or listen to some music and get inspired to do something?  Hopefully something good... but I think we have ALL been influenced by entertainment to some degree, haven't we?


    I think your just reaching tbh, but i can imagine why, you need something to blame, to be able to point at something and say this is the problem and we need to fix it, video games aren't it though, neither is it the 'orange man bad' thing either. There is an ideology problem and some of it is imported, but there is a far left extremist problem too, and its only getting worse because most of them actually think anything to the right of karl marx is fascism, antifa, bamn, blm they are all just symptoms. Blaming video games is moral cowardice really, because its the easy option, and wrong. :/
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,374
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    IMHO

    Desperate people do desperate things.

    Whats making them so desperate?
    Politicians and religious fundamentalists inciting division.

    If you read up on most of these mass shooting incidents you'll notice a common thread of extreme hate for some group or another. If Moslem extremists leaders can incite people to volunteer to be suicide bombers and we rightly blame the leaders for inciting the violence, why is it so hard for people to understand who is to blame when it's Americans going on a killing rampage?
    this exactly! It's confusing to me...but I remember that a lot of people would rather be willfully ignorant, and obtuse than to be honest. Everyone knows exactly what is inciting all this violence. It's painfully obvious yet and still... let's blame mental health and video games.

    right...


    AS I said there millions of people who play video games and suffer from mental health issues. If those things were the real reason, there would be a shit-ton more mass shootings and that's saying a lot because there are already WAY too many in just the last 3 years.  

    I tend to believe there is something else going on and it starts at the leadership. It's ridiculous that it has to be explained. 
    Here is my take:

    There is not one golden solution.   There are many different reasons and thus many different solutions.   At it's heart we have a culture that more and more separates into "Us vs Them" camps.  We also have a culture that is totally awash in violent images.   Certainly those games, movies, shows are not THE reason for ALL shootings, but I think it would be wise to at least consider that SOME people can be influenced by the devaluation of life depicted in movies, TV shows and games. And SOME people can then act out on those sick fantasies.

    I dunno about you but when I watched the Karate Kid as a child I was practicing the Crane kick.  When I saw Rocky I was playing that Rocky Theme in my Walkman (haha) while exercising. Those movies inspired me, at least for a short while... to do something in real life.

    Is it SOOO far fetched to think that SOME people can be similarly influenced by violent games, movies and shows?  I have never felt the compulsion to drink excessively but I understand that some people cannot just have 1 drink.  It affects each of us differently.

    I have never felt the urge to pick up a gun or sword in real life to mow down people after playing a Battlefield game, but I am also not arrogant enough to project my experience on the millions of other people playing.  After all... it's only a handful of those millions that do this.  There are roughly 131,000,000 people who have a firearm at home in the US.  Just a minuscule fraction of a percent of those are involved in a mass shooting.

    There are over 200,000,000 people that play some kind of video game in the US (no idea what percent play violent games but lets be honest.. there are a lot). Is it so far fetched to believe that a minuscule fraction of those (same as above) could be influenced to act out some violent fantasy because they spent hours and hours murdering people in a video game?

    I am not saying we should ban anything.  I am saying that we should not be so dismissive of looking into every cause.  We have a huge population.  It is literally a fraction of a fraction of a percent that commits these crimes.  I do know that movies have motivated me to do things or change behavior in real life.  I do not think it totally far fetched to believe that SOME people can be similarly swayed to act out violent fantasies.

    Did you never watch a movie, TV show... or listen to some music and get inspired to do something?  Hopefully something good... but I think we have ALL been influenced by entertainment to some degree, haven't we?


    I think your just reaching tbh, but i can imagine why, you need something to blame, to be able to point at something and say this is the problem and we need to fix it, video games aren't it though, neither is it the 'orange man bad' thing either. There is an ideology problem and some of it is imported, but there is a far left extremist problem too, and its only getting worse because most of them actually think anything to the right of karl marx is fascism, antifa, bamn, blm they are all just symptoms. Blaming video games is moral cowardice really, because its the easy option, and wrong. :/
    Did you see me blame anything at all in my post?  I did not.  The reach was in your reply.  I said it is POSSIBLE that SOME small fraction of people could be influenced by violent movies, TV and games to commit violent acts.  To believe that there can be literally NO association for ANY person is IMHO utterly arrogant.

    Arterius

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    IMHO

    Desperate people do desperate things.

    Whats making them so desperate?
    Politicians and religious fundamentalists inciting division.

    If you read up on most of these mass shooting incidents you'll notice a common thread of extreme hate for some group or another. If Moslem extremists leaders can incite people to volunteer to be suicide bombers and we rightly blame the leaders for inciting the violence, why is it so hard for people to understand who is to blame when it's Americans going on a killing rampage?
    this exactly! It's confusing to me...but I remember that a lot of people would rather be willfully ignorant, and obtuse than to be honest. Everyone knows exactly what is inciting all this violence. It's painfully obvious yet and still... let's blame mental health and video games.

    right...


    AS I said there millions of people who play video games and suffer from mental health issues. If those things were the real reason, there would be a shit-ton more mass shootings and that's saying a lot because there are already WAY too many in just the last 3 years.  

    I tend to believe there is something else going on and it starts at the leadership. It's ridiculous that it has to be explained. 
    Here is my take:

    There is not one golden solution.   There are many different reasons and thus many different solutions.   At it's heart we have a culture that more and more separates into "Us vs Them" camps.  We also have a culture that is totally awash in violent images.   Certainly those games, movies, shows are not THE reason for ALL shootings, but I think it would be wise to at least consider that SOME people can be influenced by the devaluation of life depicted in movies, TV shows and games. And SOME people can then act out on those sick fantasies.

    I dunno about you but when I watched the Karate Kid as a child I was practicing the Crane kick.  When I saw Rocky I was playing that Rocky Theme in my Walkman (haha) while exercising. Those movies inspired me, at least for a short while... to do something in real life.

    Is it SOOO far fetched to think that SOME people can be similarly influenced by violent games, movies and shows?  I have never felt the compulsion to drink excessively but I understand that some people cannot just have 1 drink.  It affects each of us differently.

    I have never felt the urge to pick up a gun or sword in real life to mow down people after playing a Battlefield game, but I am also not arrogant enough to project my experience on the millions of other people playing.  After all... it's only a handful of those millions that do this.  There are roughly 131,000,000 people who have a firearm at home in the US.  Just a minuscule fraction of a percent of those are involved in a mass shooting.

    There are over 200,000,000 people that play some kind of video game in the US (no idea what percent play violent games but lets be honest.. there are a lot). Is it so far fetched to believe that a minuscule fraction of those (same as above) could be influenced to act out some violent fantasy because they spent hours and hours murdering people in a video game?

    I am not saying we should ban anything.  I am saying that we should not be so dismissive of looking into every cause.  We have a huge population.  It is literally a fraction of a fraction of a percent that commits these crimes.  I do know that movies have motivated me to do things or change behavior in real life.  I do not think it totally far fetched to believe that SOME people can be similarly swayed to act out violent fantasies.

    Did you never watch a movie, TV show... or listen to some music and get inspired to do something?  Hopefully something good... but I think we have ALL been influenced by entertainment to some degree, haven't we?


    I think your just reaching tbh, but i can imagine why, you need something to blame, to be able to point at something and say this is the problem and we need to fix it, video games aren't it though, neither is it the 'orange man bad' thing either. There is an ideology problem and some of it is imported, but there is a far left extremist problem too, and its only getting worse because most of them actually think anything to the right of karl marx is fascism, antifa, bamn, blm they are all just symptoms. Blaming video games is moral cowardice really, because its the easy option, and wrong. :/
    Did you see me blame anything at all in my post?  I did not.  The reach was in your reply.  I said it is POSSIBLE that SOME small fraction of people could be influenced by violent movies, TV and games to commit violent acts.  To believe that there can be literally NO association for ANY person is IMHO utterly arrogant.

    The trouble is you can also use the argument that some of them must have also gone to McDonalds and had happy meals and that 'might' have influenced them, though honestly with the composition of those things maybe there is a causational link. And no, there is no link between video games, or movies or tv dramas though maybe Dallas might be an exception, i mean, who shot JR! maybe that spurred someone to repeat it! 
    There have been numerous scientific studies carried out, and they are conclusive, video games are not the problem, you can call me arrogant as much as you like, at least i am not engaging in moral cowardice.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,374
    Phry said:
    Phry said:
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    IMHO

    Desperate people do desperate things.

    Whats making them so desperate?
    Politicians and religious fundamentalists inciting division.

    If you read up on most of these mass shooting incidents you'll notice a common thread of extreme hate for some group or another. If Moslem extremists leaders can incite people to volunteer to be suicide bombers and we rightly blame the leaders for inciting the violence, why is it so hard for people to understand who is to blame when it's Americans going on a killing rampage?
    this exactly! It's confusing to me...but I remember that a lot of people would rather be willfully ignorant, and obtuse than to be honest. Everyone knows exactly what is inciting all this violence. It's painfully obvious yet and still... let's blame mental health and video games.

    right...


    AS I said there millions of people who play video games and suffer from mental health issues. If those things were the real reason, there would be a shit-ton more mass shootings and that's saying a lot because there are already WAY too many in just the last 3 years.  

    I tend to believe there is something else going on and it starts at the leadership. It's ridiculous that it has to be explained. 
    Here is my take:

    There is not one golden solution.   There are many different reasons and thus many different solutions.   At it's heart we have a culture that more and more separates into "Us vs Them" camps.  We also have a culture that is totally awash in violent images.   Certainly those games, movies, shows are not THE reason for ALL shootings, but I think it would be wise to at least consider that SOME people can be influenced by the devaluation of life depicted in movies, TV shows and games. And SOME people can then act out on those sick fantasies.

    I dunno about you but when I watched the Karate Kid as a child I was practicing the Crane kick.  When I saw Rocky I was playing that Rocky Theme in my Walkman (haha) while exercising. Those movies inspired me, at least for a short while... to do something in real life.

    Is it SOOO far fetched to think that SOME people can be similarly influenced by violent games, movies and shows?  I have never felt the compulsion to drink excessively but I understand that some people cannot just have 1 drink.  It affects each of us differently.

    I have never felt the urge to pick up a gun or sword in real life to mow down people after playing a Battlefield game, but I am also not arrogant enough to project my experience on the millions of other people playing.  After all... it's only a handful of those millions that do this.  There are roughly 131,000,000 people who have a firearm at home in the US.  Just a minuscule fraction of a percent of those are involved in a mass shooting.

    There are over 200,000,000 people that play some kind of video game in the US (no idea what percent play violent games but lets be honest.. there are a lot). Is it so far fetched to believe that a minuscule fraction of those (same as above) could be influenced to act out some violent fantasy because they spent hours and hours murdering people in a video game?

    I am not saying we should ban anything.  I am saying that we should not be so dismissive of looking into every cause.  We have a huge population.  It is literally a fraction of a fraction of a percent that commits these crimes.  I do know that movies have motivated me to do things or change behavior in real life.  I do not think it totally far fetched to believe that SOME people can be similarly swayed to act out violent fantasies.

    Did you never watch a movie, TV show... or listen to some music and get inspired to do something?  Hopefully something good... but I think we have ALL been influenced by entertainment to some degree, haven't we?


    I think your just reaching tbh, but i can imagine why, you need something to blame, to be able to point at something and say this is the problem and we need to fix it, video games aren't it though, neither is it the 'orange man bad' thing either. There is an ideology problem and some of it is imported, but there is a far left extremist problem too, and its only getting worse because most of them actually think anything to the right of karl marx is fascism, antifa, bamn, blm they are all just symptoms. Blaming video games is moral cowardice really, because its the easy option, and wrong. :/
    Did you see me blame anything at all in my post?  I did not.  The reach was in your reply.  I said it is POSSIBLE that SOME small fraction of people could be influenced by violent movies, TV and games to commit violent acts.  To believe that there can be literally NO association for ANY person is IMHO utterly arrogant.

    The trouble is you can also use the argument that some of them must have also gone to McDonalds and had happy meals and that 'might' have influenced them, though honestly with the composition of those things maybe there is a causational link. And no, there is no link between video games, or movies or tv dramas though maybe Dallas might be an exception, i mean, who shot JR! maybe that spurred someone to repeat it! 
    There have been numerous scientific studies carried out, and they are conclusive, video games are not the problem, you can call me arrogant as much as you like, at least i am not engaging in moral cowardice.
    I totally disagree.  I would say your moral cowardice comes because if in fact SOME people were influenced by OUR hobby WE might bear SOME responsibility for it. And your simple deflection of the conversation is enabling that.   So lets move past the judgment OK?  That YOU vs THEM idea is absolutely and undoubtedly a factor in this situation.  We need a lot less of that.

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  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,595
    edited August 2019
    @Arterius I never said not even once it was ONLY  Trump. Not once did I say it was ONLY him, I told you what I think it is. Please read what I wrote. I said it's a combination of the rise of White Nationalism, and his provoking of those type of people who share his ideology. THREE MASS SHOOTINGS this year have been announced on 8chan. A place where people who share his train of thought say things like "Hail Trump ". They practically worship him at that place and there is a reason for it. He is appealing to a certain type of person. 

    He is absolutely part of it but HEY, I'll do you one even better, since you keep bringing him up to me, don't take my word for it, take his.  

    • Trump launched his campaign in 2015 by calling Mexican immigrants “rapists” who are “bringing crime” and “bringing drugs” to the US. His campaign was largely built on building a wall to keep these immigrants out of the US

    • As a candidate in 2015, Trump called for a ban on all Muslims coming into the US. His administration eventually implemented a significantly watered-down version of the policy.

    • Trump has been repeatedly slow to condemn white supremacists who endorse him, and he regularly retweeted messages from white supremacists and neo-Nazis during his presidential campaign.

    • At the 2016 Republican convention, Trump officially seized the mantle of the “law and order” candidate — an obvious dog whistle playing to white fears of black crime, even though crime in the US is historically low. His speeches, comments, and executive actions after he took office have continued this line of messaging.

    • In a pitch to black voters in 2016, Trump said, “You’re living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?”

    • In the week after white supremacist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August 2017, Trump repeatedly said that “many sides” and “both sides” were to blame for the violence and chaos that ensued — suggesting that the white supremacist protesters were morally equivalent to counterprotesters that stood against racism. He also said that there were “some very fine people” among the white supremacists. All of this seemed like a dog whistle to white supremacists — and many of them took it as one, with white nationalist Richard Spencer praising Trump for “defending the truth.”

    • Throughout 2017, Trump repeatedly attacked NFL players who, by kneeling or otherwise silently protesting during the national anthem, demonstrated against systemic racism in America.

    • Trump reportedly said in 2017 that people who came to the US from Haiti “all have AIDS,” and he lamented that people who came to the US from Nigeria would never “go back to their huts” once they saw America. The White House denied that Trump ever made these comments.

    • Speaking about immigration in a bipartisan meeting in January 2018, Trump reportedly asked, in reference to Haiti and African countries, “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” He then reportedly suggested that the US should take more people from countries like Norway. The implication: Immigrants from predominantly white countries are good, while immigrants from predominantly black countries are bad.

    • Trump denied making the “shithole” comments, although some senators present at the meeting said they happened. The White House, meanwhile, suggested that the comments, like Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests, will play well to his base. The only connection between Trump’s remarks about the NFL protests and his “shithole” comments is race.

    I can make a book of things he's said that confirm what he is. If that's not enough here's a video:




    I often see around these parts the argument of if he is racist or bigoted or that the word "Racist" means nothing anymore. I beg to differ. Racist means exactly what it means and the racist or bigoted argument is tremendously semantic. It’s basically asking the question: Is Trump racist or is he bigoted? But who gives a shit? Neither is a trait that anyone should want in a president. 

    Just because race is a social construct, does not mean people’s views of race don’t have real effects on many people, which is why his comments are in fact racist. You also forget one key thing. The guy literally ran his entire campaign on bigotry. He knew who he was pandering to by giving a candidate to the many white Americans who harbor racial resentment.  So yes, racial attitudes were a big driver behind Trump’s election, just as they long have been for general beliefs about politics and policy.

    Below is an excerpt from the NY Times:

    "Meanwhile, white supremacist groups have openly embraced Trump. As Sarah Posner and David Neiwert reported at Mother Jones, what the media largely treated as gaffes — Trump retweeting white nationalists, Trump describing Mexican immigrants as “rapists” and criminals — were to white supremacists real signals approving of their racist causes. One white supremacist wrote, “Our Glorious Leader and ULTIMATE SAVIOR has gone full-wink-wink-wink to his most aggressive supporters.”


    Some of them even argued that Trump has softened the greater public to their racist messaging. “The success of the Trump campaign just proves that our views resonate with millions,” said Rachel Pendergraft, a national organizer for the Knights Party, which succeeded David Duke’s Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. “They may not be ready for the Ku Klux Klan yet, but as anti-white hatred escalates, they will.”


    And at the 2017 white supremacist protest in Charlottesville, David Duke, the former KKK grand wizard, said that the rally was meant “to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump.”


    So while Trump may deny his racism and bigotry, at some level his supporters seem to get it. As much as his history of racism shows that he’s racist, perhaps who supported him and why is just as revealing — and it doesn’t paint a favorable picture for Trump."


    Trump is simply unamerican. He has a very DEEP belief that if you arent what HE is, you aren't really an American. Even though America was built on the idea of freedom. Everyone here came on a boat which means technically we are all immigrants. Only the Natives can say their Ancestry is traced back to this land. 

    He has a lack of knowledge of what America is all about. He is constantly trying to appeal to his narrow base of scared, older less-educated white Americans who see the world changing around them. Instead of explaining how the change is a great thing, he would rather stoke their fears. They eat up. I also believe the youth that worships him, the kids that hang out at 8chan, etc, are doing so because they have been indoctrinated and are looking for an outlet where they can share ideas with like-minded people. 


    Here's what really strange, you say you don't support him but you constantly defend/excuse him.

    Phryvandal5627Caffynatedragebullet
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

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    "Fear is the most dangerous power"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,569
    klash2def said:


    Here's what really strange, you say you don't support him but you constantly defend/excuse him.

    I am independent. I lean more left then I do right. I do not support trump but their are some policies that I agree with. His immigration polices being one of them. Sometimes I don't agree how he goes about them but I do think that we do have a major illegal problem. My grandma, who is full Mexican, will tell you that. She is moving from her home town in CA to my backwoods town in SD because she is starting to be judged by illegal's because she doesn't speak Spanish and doesn't belong. That is a problem. I don't just read Fox news or CNN either. I read everything from various news sites and then formulate my own decision because the truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

    I mean Fox holds Trump up like a god and does everything to please the man and other news sites have a hate boner for the guy. So yes I do not support Trump. I voted against him and I will vote against him come 2020. However, I think dismissing Trump as a bad president though is a mistake. He is doing fine. 
    Blaze_Rocker
    Currently playing: Witcher 3 (Xbox One X), TemTem

    Currently Reading: Oathbringer (Stormlight Archive Book 3)

    Currently Writing: Champions of Legend Book 1 (2nd Draft)


  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,912
    klash2def said:
    Ungood said:
    "Just like a Nuclear Warhead is neither good nor evil, it is just a thing, it is not the weapon that is the problem, it is who has it."

    Nope your wrong a Nuclear Warhead is 1000% evil


    We shall simply disagree, as a warhead is just an object and an object cannot be good or evil, anymore than a rock can be good or evil. For something to be evil, requires motive and intent, something that all objects lack.

    Now.. you could argue that the motive behind making a Warhead is 1000% evil, that the need to have and build a weapon of such devastation is the apex of human evilness and insanity.. that could be its own great discussion. 

    But one I have no intention of having.
    Well, I don't think anyone here is saying objects can reason or make choices. You are basically saying the same thing he is saying if you take semantics out of it. The bottom line is what here? 
    Yes we could argue that it is an issue of semantics, but I would wager it is not.

    But keep in mind that Humans at one time thought Crossbows and Dynamite were far too "evil" (read: destructive/deadly) to exist, and should be eradicated.. how naive they were to not even realize that such things were megar stepping stones.. I wonder what the next tier of weapons will be for us.

    Can you imagine in say 100 years, people looking back at our crude and archaic weapons and seeing how we fussed endlessly they were too deadly and dangerous, like we would look back upon the bow or dagger.

    Sure, the bow and daggers ability to kill someone has not diminished since their inception, in fact, our technological advancements have made them even deadlier than they have ever been, but they have simply been outclassed by more modern weapons.

    Same too I suppose will happen to all our currently modern weapons, such is the nature of our species.

    Which is why it is pointless to say someTHING is evil, and instead focus on the person. 

    The real question should be: Why are Humans so obsessed with killing each other, we have been such long before video games, will be such long after them.. we have killed with bombs, and when we didn't have bombs, we killed with guns, when we didn't have guns, we killed with knives, when we didn't have knives we killed with rocks.. it is not what is in our hand that is the problem... so we need to ask the hard question... what is the real problem?
    klash2deflaserit
  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,569
    klash2def said:





    Trump is simply unamerican. He has a very DEEP belief that if you arent what HE is, you aren't really an American. Even though America was built on the idea of freedom. Everyone here came on a boat which means technically we are all immigrants. Only the Natives can say their Ancestry is traced back to this land. 

    He has a lack of knowledge of what America is all about. He is constantly trying to appeal to his narrow base of scared, older less-educated white Americans who see the world changing around them. Instead of explaining how the change is a great thing, he would rather stoke their fears. They eat up. I also believe the youth that worships him, the kids that hang out at 8chan, etc, are doing so because they have been indoctrinated and are looking for an outlet where they can share ideas with like-minded people. 


    I don't think Trump is unamerican. He has never attacked legal Mexicans or people of other skin color. He may talk smack (Which I don't agree with) but its not like he has ever said anything that would make me fear being deported or being put in a camp. His attacks have pretty firmly been against people coming into the country illegally. It's the other people twisting his words and making it seem like he hates everyone that sows hate.

    Phrymmolouvandal5627
    Currently playing: Witcher 3 (Xbox One X), TemTem

    Currently Reading: Oathbringer (Stormlight Archive Book 3)

    Currently Writing: Champions of Legend Book 1 (2nd Draft)


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,595
    Arterius said:
    klash2def said:


    Here's what really strange, you say you don't support him but you constantly defend/excuse him.

    I am independent. I lean more left then I do right. I do not support trump but their are some policies that I agree with. His immigration polices being one of them. Sometimes I don't agree how he goes about them but I do think that we do have a major illegal problem. My grandma, who is full Mexican, will tell you that. She is moving from her home town in CA to my backwoods town in SD because she is starting to be judged by illegal's because she doesn't speak Spanish and doesn't belong. That is a problem. I don't just read Fox news or CNN either. I read everything from various news sites and then formulate my own decision because the truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

    I mean Fox holds Trump up like a god and does everything to please the man and other news sites have a hate boner for the guy. So yes I do not support Trump. I voted against him and I will vote against him come 2020. However, I think dismissing Trump as a bad president though is a mistake. He is doing fine. 
    Lol, Okay so you disregarded everything I said and are still defending him. He is doing "FINE" 

    Tell that to all the children (Your people) locked up in literal cages at the border. Yea.. everything is "fine" 

    Did you also say you are Mexican? You know he doesn't like you right? 


    PhrymmolouCaffynatedragebullet
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "Fear is the most dangerous power"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,007
    Ungood said:
    "Just like a Nuclear Warhead is neither good nor evil, it is just a thing, it is not the weapon that is the problem, it is who has it."

    Nope your wrong a Nuclear Warhead is 1000% evil


    We shall simply disagree, as a warhead is just an object and an object cannot be good or evil, anymore than a rock can be good or evil. For something to be evil, requires motive and intent, something that all objects lack.

    Now.. you could argue that the motive behind making a Warhead is 1000% evil, that the need to have and build a weapon of such devastation is the apex of human evilness and insanity.. that could be its own great discussion. 

    But one I have no intention of having.
    maybe but there is teh deterrent fact, if someone have a weapon, and you don't, bigger chances are that someone will use such weapon on you, but by having the same weapon, the advantage is lost and then they are more willing to talk and come to a term.

    unfortunally, in a war everyone there is fighting is the good guy fighting the evil one, when the truth is politicians wanting something they can't have so they send yourg people to die for then.

    start to undertand how humans work and think, everyone who don't agree with you is wrong, i'm the special, pretty much the MMO problem of everyone is the chosen one.
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,595
    edited August 2019
    Arterius said:

    I don't think Trump is unamerican. He has never attacked legal Mexicans or people of other skin color. He may talk smack (Which I don't agree with) but its not like he has ever said anything that would make me fear being deported or being put in a camp. His attacks have pretty firmly been against people coming into the country illegally. It's the other people twisting his words and making it seem like he hates everyone that sows hate.
    I literally just wrote a chapter of things he said to people who are actual Americans. Also, you are saying he talks "smack" what does that mean? He says racist things why can't you admit that? So it's okay to be racist as long as the people aren't American? Is that what you are saying? 

    What are you talking about? I'm finding it hard to not see you as defending him. 

    I understand you are independent, I am too and also like you I am Left-leaning in my political views but I just cannot stand for someone who stokes division and hatred amongst people. 
    Phrymmolouvandal5627ArteriusCaffynated
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "Fear is the most dangerous power"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,211
    Ungood said:
    klash2def said:
    Ungood said:
    "Just like a Nuclear Warhead is neither good nor evil, it is just a thing, it is not the weapon that is the problem, it is who has it."

    Nope your wrong a Nuclear Warhead is 1000% evil


    We shall simply disagree, as a warhead is just an object and an object cannot be good or evil, anymore than a rock can be good or evil. For something to be evil, requires motive and intent, something that all objects lack.

    Now.. you could argue that the motive behind making a Warhead is 1000% evil, that the need to have and build a weapon of such devastation is the apex of human evilness and insanity.. that could be its own great discussion. 

    But one I have no intention of having.
    Well, I don't think anyone here is saying objects can reason or make choices. You are basically saying the same thing he is saying if you take semantics out of it. The bottom line is what here? 
    Yes we could argue that it is an issue of semantics, but I would wager it is not.

    But keep in mind that Humans at one time thought Crossbows and Dynamite were far too "evil" (read: destructive/deadly) to exist, and should be eradicated.. how naive they were to not even realize that such things were megar stepping stones.. I wonder what the next tier of weapons will be for us.

    Can you imagine in say 100 years, people looking back at our crude and archaic weapons and seeing how we fussed endlessly they were too deadly and dangerous, like we would look back upon the bow or dagger.

    Sure, the bow and daggers ability to kill someone has not diminished since their inception, in fact, our technological advancements have made them even deadlier than they have ever been, but they have simply been outclassed by more modern weapons.

    Same too I suppose will happen to all our currently modern weapons, such is the nature of our species.

    Which is why it is pointless to say someTHING is evil, and instead focus on the person. 

    The real question should be: Why are Humans so obsessed with killing each other, we have been such long before video games, will be such long after them.. we have killed with bombs, and when we didn't have bombs, we killed with guns, when we didn't have guns, we killed with knives, when we didn't have knives we killed with rocks.. it is not what is in our hand that is the problem... so we need to ask the hard question... what is the real problem?
    It goes all the way back. How can you change something that's so ingrained in our being?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7XuXi3mqYM

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,374
    klash2def said:
    Arterius said:

    I don't think Trump is unamerican. He has never attacked legal Mexicans or people of other skin color. He may talk smack (Which I don't agree with) but its not like he has ever said anything that would make me fear being deported or being put in a camp. His attacks have pretty firmly been against people coming into the country illegally. It's the other people twisting his words and making it seem like he hates everyone that sows hate.
    I literally just wrote a chapter of things he said to people who are actual Americans. Also, you are saying he talks "smack" what does that mean? He says racist things why can't you admit that? So it's okay to be racist as long as the people aren't American? Is that what you are saying? 

    What are you talking about? I'm finding it hard to not see you as defending him. 

    I understand you are independent, I am too and also like you I am Left-leaning in my political views but I just cannot stand for someone who stokes division and hatred amongst people. 
    So your argument regarding video games is that Trump is responsible (partly) because he says bad things but video games which have you actually act out those bad things have zero responsibility?

    I'm honestly not interested in talking about Trump in a thread about video games... so I just want to try and relate your argument to the topic.  You seem to be saying that only a few sources can influence behavior and other sources cannot?  It seems odd to me.

    As I said.  My personal experience when I saw certain movies was to go emulate them.  Is it really impossible that SOME people do the same with violent movies and games?

    Arterius

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 985
    I think I read 40k+ died from gun deaths last year in the US, and there were another 10k+ or so incidents with guns, but not leading to death. How that compares to other countries? I don't know, but it wouldn't take long to find out.

    I'm also not sure what % of those were from self-defense with 'legal' firearms and what % were from illegal firearms.

    It's too much. It should be too much to anyone whether you're a gang banger &/or a 'good American with strong moral fiber' flexing your constitutional rights.

    To say anything else for or against that # is bullshit at the highest level, regarding this specific issue. Too many people are dying in stupid ways.

    The same could be said for obesity, smoking, drinking, you name it, but those are other issues.

    They all have the same thing in common though. Humans being stupid or lazy or self-centered or reckless or careless.

    No matter who we believe in, life is a gift that we all take for granted one way or another.

    We vote politicians into office to paper push this shit out of existence, but we hardly hold them accountable when they don't. We're too entertained over them dogging on each other, chasing soundbites, enjoying awesome benefits for life, then booking speaking tours and book tours. They act like spoiled little celebrities instead of public servants.

    We've all had a hand in it getting like this...and it would probably take us all to dig out of it.

    With a fraction of a fraction of the people getting involved to vote and help their communities, it'll always be an uphill battle, and I don't know how to make it better.

    I'll keep staying involved in my area and doing charity work when I can and hopefully raise my sons to not be totally stupid/lazy/self-centered/reckless/careless idiots that would only add to our problems.

    Gut Out!

    Slapshot1188klash2defvandal5627

    What, me worry?

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,595
    edited August 2019
    klash2def said:
    Arterius said:

    I don't think Trump is unamerican. He has never attacked legal Mexicans or people of other skin color. He may talk smack (Which I don't agree with) but its not like he has ever said anything that would make me fear being deported or being put in a camp. His attacks have pretty firmly been against people coming into the country illegally. It's the other people twisting his words and making it seem like he hates everyone that sows hate.
    I literally just wrote a chapter of things he said to people who are actual Americans. Also, you are saying he talks "smack" what does that mean? He says racist things why can't you admit that? So it's okay to be racist as long as the people aren't American? Is that what you are saying? 

    What are you talking about? I'm finding it hard to not see you as defending him. 

    I understand you are independent, I am too and also like you I am Left-leaning in my political views but I just cannot stand for someone who stokes division and hatred amongst people. 
    So your argument regarding video games is that Trump is responsible (partly) because he says bad things but video games which have you actually act out those bad things have zero responsibility?

    I'm honestly not interested in talking about Trump in a thread about video games... so I just want to try and relate your argument to the topic.  You seem to be saying that only a few sources can influence behavior and other sources cannot?  It seems odd to me.

    As I said.  My personal experience when I saw certain movies was to go emulate them.  Is it really impossible that SOME people do the same with violent movies and games?

    How come every time I speak in one of these threads you want to tell me to stay on topic as if somehow the topic isn't political in nature.  I didn't start the thread. This isn't a thread about Video games, we aren't discussing gear ratings here. You just want to say that to me because I am making valid points. It never fails. But I will entertain you.

    Sir, we are discussing mass shootings and video games. That topic alone has a political connotation. You cannot discuss the political climate, yes even surrounding video games, without discussing the leadership and lawmakers. It's not my fault Trump is in leadership, I didn't vote for him. He blamed video games, I'm blaming him more than video games. People ask me why. I explain.

    What don't you get? 

    EDIT: You don't have to try to relate my argument to the topic because its on topic. You just don't like what I have to say so you want to silence me. funny how everyone else can say what they want around here but there is a problem once I start giving my pov. Very Interesting. 
    mmolouSlapshot1188ArteriusCaffynatedragebullet
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "Fear is the most dangerous power"
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

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