Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

No evidence video games cause mass shootings

13567

Comments

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,515
    edited August 2019
    Phry said:

    Part of the problem is that the MSM is outright lying, its got so bad that you literally cannot trust them as a news source, if anything there is an actual causational link between the MSM and mass killings, the lies and propoganda is too often, an incitement to violence.
    Banning weapons, whether its firearms or knives, does not prevent acts of violence, what it does, is make it harder for people to defend themselves, it leaves the most vulnerable without protection of any kind and that usually means women. :/
    In none of the recent gun shootings did anyone really successfully defend themselves with a gun anyways.  I can recall two or so off of recent memory of the past twenty (....wow, we get a lot of mass shootings nowadays) where a bystander did have a gun and managed to pull a couple shots off at the shooter but in both cases they missed and a lot of people were already dead by then anyways.

    So "making it harder for people to defend themselves" is really not going to change much when people are unable to defend themselves (for a wide variety of reasons*) under the current situation anyways.

    *It's not easy to defend yourself when you first have to first realize there's a shooting going on,  identify the shooter, aim at the shooter while there are lots of people who are either in the way or will be hit if you miss (or even if you don't miss if the bullet penetrates through the shooter) and bring yourself to be able to kill someone likely for the first time, all within the span of a five minute time limit tops. I recall another situation where a bystander had a gun but he couldn't pull the trigger because he wasn't sure if the guy that just shot up everyone was the shooter, due to the shooter shooting in a crowd and thus being covered up by lots of people.
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    edited August 2019
    I don't think the games are directly responsible for the shootings, obviously, But i do think its possible ultra realistic and violent games "might" desensitize a very fragile mind. 

    In my opinion these tragedy's are being caused/driven by a multitude of things and i do in fact think that desensitization plays a small part in it but its not just from the video games its also from  social media gore video's and such. Throw in a MainStream Media that loves to whip everyone into a frenzy and promote fear,division & anger  +The Political climate we live, the verbal diarrhea from anonymous message boards on both political spectrum's and then a very weak, disturbed mentally fragile person.

       I think politicians and MSM are looking for a quick fix answer. The Right blames Mental health & videogames, The left blames Guns & Trump, Media outlets blame Racism and message boards. They all might very well in fact be right but I think the one thing they miss is themselves (politicians & MSM), The toxicity and negativity they constantly push, 24/7, is not healthy
    Mackaveli44Beezerbeez
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member RarePosts: 563
    In none of the recent gun shootings did anyone really successfully defend themselves with a gun anyways.  I can recall two or so off of recent memory of the past twenty (....wow, we get a lot of mass shootings nowadays) where a bystander did have a gun and managed to pull a couple shots off at the shooter but in both cases they missed and a lot of people were already dead by then anyways.

    So "making it harder for people to defend themselves" is really not going to change much when people are unable to defend themselves (for a wide variety of reasons*) under the current situation anyways.

    *It's not easy to defend yourself when you first have to first realize there's a shooting going on,  identify the shooter, aim at the shooter while there are lots of people who are either in the way or will be hit if you miss (or even if you don't miss if the bullet penetrates through the shooter) and bring yourself to be able to kill someone likely for the first time, all within the span of a five minute time limit tops. I recall another situation where a bystander had a gun but he couldn't pull the trigger because he wasn't sure if the guy that just shot up everyone was the shooter, due to the shooter shooting in a crowd and thus being covered up by lots of people.


    There's a reason you don't see many people defending themselves with firearms. The Walmart shooter chose that location because he said he knew nobody else would be armed. Most mass shootings occur in "gun free zones". Seems you argued yourself into a corner.



  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 1,958
    TEKK3N said:
    Meanwhile in Europe, same games, no mass shooting.
    Could it be that the difference is that in Europe they don’t sell automatic guns at the mall?

    I don’t know what will it take for Americans to understand that automatic weapons, in particular rifles are made for wars, not for civilians consumption.

    Why do you need an M16 for personal defence?
    What kind of scenario requires the use of an automatic rifle in a civilian environment?
    I really don’t get it.
    Automatic weapons have been banned for a long, long time in the U.S. for civilian use. We only have legal access to semi-automatic.
    ultimateduck


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

  • Mackaveli44Mackaveli44 Member RarePosts: 606
    I don't think the games are directly responsible for the shootings, obviously, But i do think its possible ultra realistic and violent games "might" desensitize a very fragile mind. 

    In my opinion these tragedy's are being caused/driven by a multitude of things and i do in fact think that desensitization plays a small part in it but its not just from the video games its also from  social media gore video's and such. Throw in a MainStream Media that loves to whip everyone into a frenzy and promote fear,division & anger  +The Political climate we live, the verbal diarrhea from anonymous message boards on both political spectrum's and then a very weak, disturbed mentally fragile person.

       I think politicians and MSM are looking for a quick fix answer. The Right blames Mental health & videogames, The left blames Guns & Trump, Media outlets blame Racism and message boards. They all might very well in fact be right but I think the one thing they miss is themselves (politicians & MSM), The toxicity and negativity they constantly push, 24/7, is not healthy
    To add onto your great post, I also think the persons upbringing / home life plays a role into the state these people are in.  Everyone loves to put a blame on something but don't look to the possible cause or root of the problems.  How someones home life is, their immediate surroundings(Family, parents, siblings) and whether or not its chaotic plays a role onto someones psyche.  Getting to the root of the problem is whats needed, not the symptoms.  When you are sick, a doctor doesn't treat the symptoms, they treat the problem causing the symptoms. 
    JeffSpicoliultimateduck
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,032
    OG_Zorvan said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Meanwhile in Europe, same games, no mass shooting.
    Could it be that the difference is that in Europe they don’t sell automatic guns at the mall?

    I don’t know what will it take for Americans to understand that automatic weapons, in particular rifles are made for wars, not for civilians consumption.

    Why do you need an M16 for personal defence?
    What kind of scenario requires the use of an automatic rifle in a civilian environment?
    I really don’t get it.
    Automatic weapons have been banned for a long, long time in the U.S. for civilian use. We only have legal access to semi-automatic.
    Those are still weapons that no-one would have around for self-defence unless they're planning to defend from some kind of military invasion.

    But much larger distinction is than in Europe even most of the gun-holders don't think their guns are there for self defence. They may be kept for hunting, or as a hobby, and some old-timers still feel it's needed in case of a military invasion. Europeans are more likely to think how they can call 112 in emergency, or perhaps have pepper spray in hand. Honest people carrying a gun around is only done in America.
     
  • Mmochamp19Mmochamp19 Newbie CommonPosts: 12
    edited August 2019
    Vrika said:
    OG_Zorvan said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Meanwhile in Europe, same games, no mass shooting.
    Could it be that the difference is that in Europe they don’t sell automatic guns at the mall?

    I don’t know what will it take for Americans to understand that automatic weapons, in particular rifles are made for wars, not for civilians consumption.

    Why do you need an M16 for personal defence?
    What kind of scenario requires the use of an automatic rifle in a civilian environment?
    I really don’t get it.
    Automatic weapons have been banned for a long, long time in the U.S. for civilian use. We only have legal access to semi-automatic.
    Those are still weapons that no-one would have around for self-defence unless they're planning to defend from some kind of military invasion.

    But much larger distinction is than in Europe even most of the gun-holders don't think their guns are there for self defence. They may be kept for hunting, or as a hobby, and some old-timers still feel it's needed in case of a military invasion. Europeans are more likely to think how they can call 112 in emergency, or perhaps have pepper spray in hand. Honest people carrying a gun around is only done in America.
    An AR15 is a perfect weapon for in home self defense, most people cant shoot a pistol accurately from 10 yards, much less under stress in the dark
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,831
    edited August 2019
    Listening to non-Americans talk about guns in America hurts my brain. 

    First of all....it isn't the wild west here. I am 48 years old and don't know one person who has been shot or even shot at. I have lived in big cities like Tampa, Miami, El Paso, and Las Vegas and I have never heard gunshots just being out in the community or sitting in my home. We have 320 million people in our country, we have states that have a bigger population than most countries. We have 90 million law abiding gun owners. Think about those numbers, then think of the fact we lose about 10,000 people to murder by firearm each year. 

    Do the math. If you read the news you would think death by gun is the leading cause of death in the U.S., it does not make the top 15, at which point 16+ is "all other causes".

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf 
    JeffSpicoliultimateduck
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,032
    Vrika said:
    OG_Zorvan said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Meanwhile in Europe, same games, no mass shooting.
    Could it be that the difference is that in Europe they don’t sell automatic guns at the mall?

    I don’t know what will it take for Americans to understand that automatic weapons, in particular rifles are made for wars, not for civilians consumption.

    Why do you need an M16 for personal defence?
    What kind of scenario requires the use of an automatic rifle in a civilian environment?
    I really don’t get it.
    Automatic weapons have been banned for a long, long time in the U.S. for civilian use. We only have legal access to semi-automatic.
    Those are still weapons that no-one would have around for self-defence unless they're planning to defend from some kind of military invasion.

    But much larger distinction is than in Europe even most of the gun-holders don't think their guns are there for self defence. They may be kept for hunting, or as a hobby, and some old-timers still feel it's needed in case of a military invasion. Europeans are more likely to think how they can call 112 in emergency, or perhaps have pepper spray in hand. Honest people carrying a gun around is only done in America.
    An AR15 is a perfect weapon for in home self defense, most people cant shoot a pistol accurately from 10 yards, much less under stress in the dark
    You won't even notice an attacker before he's right besides your house trying to break in, let alone have time to grab your weapon before he's arrived.

    Viper482
     
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,831
    Vrika said:
    Vrika said:
    OG_Zorvan said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Meanwhile in Europe, same games, no mass shooting.
    Could it be that the difference is that in Europe they don’t sell automatic guns at the mall?

    I don’t know what will it take for Americans to understand that automatic weapons, in particular rifles are made for wars, not for civilians consumption.

    Why do you need an M16 for personal defence?
    What kind of scenario requires the use of an automatic rifle in a civilian environment?
    I really don’t get it.
    Automatic weapons have been banned for a long, long time in the U.S. for civilian use. We only have legal access to semi-automatic.
    Those are still weapons that no-one would have around for self-defence unless they're planning to defend from some kind of military invasion.

    But much larger distinction is than in Europe even most of the gun-holders don't think their guns are there for self defence. They may be kept for hunting, or as a hobby, and some old-timers still feel it's needed in case of a military invasion. Europeans are more likely to think how they can call 112 in emergency, or perhaps have pepper spray in hand. Honest people carrying a gun around is only done in America.
    An AR15 is a perfect weapon for in home self defense, most people cant shoot a pistol accurately from 10 yards, much less under stress in the dark
    You won't even notice an attacker before he's right besides your house trying to break in, let alone have time to grab your weapon before he's arrived.


    Absurd. There are stories all the time about armed citizens defending their home against intruders, easy google can completely render your argument null. I do disagree that AR-15 is a "perfect" weapon for home defense. That would be a tactical shotgun with the right ammo. https://www.range365.com/choosing-shotgun-ammo-for-home-defense/
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member EpicPosts: 1,919
    Viper482 said:
    Listening to non-Americans talk about guns in America hurts my brain. 

    First of all....it isn't the wild west here. I am 48 years old and don't know one person who has been shot or even shot at. I have lived in big cities like Tampa, Miami, El Paso, and Las Vegas and I have never heard gunshots just being out in the community or sitting in my home. We have 320 million people in our country, we have states that have a bigger population than most countries. We have 90 million law abiding gun owners. Think about those numbers, then think of the fact we lose about 10,000 people to murder by firearm each year. 

    Do the math. If you read the news you would think death by gun is the leading cause of death in the U.S., it does not make the top 15, at which point 16+ is "all other causes".

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf 
    you have to omit the exception of Chicago and Baltimore . 
    There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
  • Mmochamp19Mmochamp19 Newbie CommonPosts: 12
    edited August 2019
    Vrika said:
    Vrika said:
    OG_Zorvan said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Meanwhile in Europe, same games, no mass shooting.
    Could it be that the difference is that in Europe they don’t sell automatic guns at the mall?

    I don’t know what will it take for Americans to understand that automatic weapons, in particular rifles are made for wars, not for civilians consumption.

    Why do you need an M16 for personal defence?
    What kind of scenario requires the use of an automatic rifle in a civilian environment?
    I really don’t get it.
    Automatic weapons have been banned for a long, long time in the U.S. for civilian use. We only have legal access to semi-automatic.
    Those are still weapons that no-one would have around for self-defence unless they're planning to defend from some kind of military invasion.

    But much larger distinction is than in Europe even most of the gun-holders don't think their guns are there for self defence. They may be kept for hunting, or as a hobby, and some old-timers still feel it's needed in case of a military invasion. Europeans are more likely to think how they can call 112 in emergency, or perhaps have pepper spray in hand. Honest people carrying a gun around is only done in America.
    An AR15 is a perfect weapon for in home self defense, most people cant shoot a pistol accurately from 10 yards, much less under stress in the dark
    You won't even notice an attacker before he's right besides your house trying to break in, let alone have time to grab your weapon before he's arrived.

    personally I have used my mini14 to stop a break-in.  Only once.  Another time, there were some kids snooping around the neighborhood, and used the shotgun cocking.  I have never thought to grab one of my pistols to defend myself.  I actually only use them for target practice.  My mini14 (I prefer it to my AR15) is the first thing I grab, and it takes me less than 15 seconds to have it.  I also have 4 dogs that alert me

    Zombie invasion, you want me as your friend
  • ragebulletragebullet Member UncommonPosts: 41
    Kyleran said:
    Couldnt be due to racist hate speech,  easier to purchase firearms than alcohol, or broken moral fiber, has to be violent entertainment for sure, video games being the worst of course.

    Sometimes I think the Purge movies are ever closer to becoming a reality.


    what planet do you live on? easier to purchase firearms than alcohol?
    Aeanderultimateduck
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,032
    Viper482 said:
    Vrika said:
    Vrika said:
    OG_Zorvan said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Meanwhile in Europe, same games, no mass shooting.
    Could it be that the difference is that in Europe they don’t sell automatic guns at the mall?

    I don’t know what will it take for Americans to understand that automatic weapons, in particular rifles are made for wars, not for civilians consumption.

    Why do you need an M16 for personal defence?
    What kind of scenario requires the use of an automatic rifle in a civilian environment?
    I really don’t get it.
    Automatic weapons have been banned for a long, long time in the U.S. for civilian use. We only have legal access to semi-automatic.
    Those are still weapons that no-one would have around for self-defence unless they're planning to defend from some kind of military invasion.

    But much larger distinction is than in Europe even most of the gun-holders don't think their guns are there for self defence. They may be kept for hunting, or as a hobby, and some old-timers still feel it's needed in case of a military invasion. Europeans are more likely to think how they can call 112 in emergency, or perhaps have pepper spray in hand. Honest people carrying a gun around is only done in America.
    An AR15 is a perfect weapon for in home self defense, most people cant shoot a pistol accurately from 10 yards, much less under stress in the dark
    You won't even notice an attacker before he's right besides your house trying to break in, let alone have time to grab your weapon before he's arrived.


    Absurd. There are stories all the time about armed citizens defending their home against intruders, easy google can completely render your argument null. I do disagree that AR-15 is a "perfect" weapon for home defense. That would be a tactical shotgun with the right ammo. https://www.range365.com/choosing-shotgun-ammo-for-home-defense/
    I didn't say there'd be no stories about defending your home, but it's absurd to think you'd notice an actual attacker before he's right at your house.

    I do agree with you about shotgun, though. It's something that you'd want to use because it's for close range, while a weapon like AR15 is more good for shooting someone who at that point isn't a serious threat to your life anyway.
     
  • BellomoBellomo Member UncommonPosts: 182
    edited August 2019
    Police trained with ar 15s used over 60 bullets to stop the Ohio shooter and you want us normal civilians to try to stop an armed intruder with just 2 shots out of a shotgun?  Drugs like heroine are illegal and yet more people get their hands on them and cause more deaths that all type of guns put together but you want me to believe by getting rid of guns gun crimes will stop?

    Common sense has left the American public and I fear what rights they want to get rid of next.

    Viper482blamo2000
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 973
    Vrika said:
    OG_Zorvan said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Meanwhile in Europe, same games, no mass shooting.
    Could it be that the difference is that in Europe they don’t sell automatic guns at the mall?

    I don’t know what will it take for Americans to understand that automatic weapons, in particular rifles are made for wars, not for civilians consumption.

    Why do you need an M16 for personal defence?
    What kind of scenario requires the use of an automatic rifle in a civilian environment?
    I really don’t get it.
    Automatic weapons have been banned for a long, long time in the U.S. for civilian use. We only have legal access to semi-automatic.
    Those are still weapons that no-one would have around for self-defence unless they're planning to defend from some kind of military invasion.

    But much larger distinction is than in Europe even most of the gun-holders don't think their guns are there for self defence. They may be kept for hunting, or as a hobby, and some old-timers still feel it's needed in case of a military invasion. Europeans are more likely to think how they can call 112 in emergency, or perhaps have pepper spray in hand. Honest people carrying a gun around is only done in America.
    Almost all modern weapons are semi-automatic.  All semi-automatic means is that when you shoot a round the next round is chambered and ready to fire.  Most non-automatic weapons are rifles where you need to manually chamber the round.  

    The right to bear arms (2nd amendment) wasn't added in the bill of rights as a right that will not be infringed for self-defense specifically, so that argument is moot.  Some founders were adamant it was included as a safe-guard for the first amendment. Almost all the highest caliber rifles I've seen, like a 50 cal rifle and other sniper rifles, are not semi-automatic.  

    I don't own a firearm but it really bothers me how quickly Europeans chime in on issues in the US, when you guys jail people for posting lyrics online or saying non-offensive common sense things, or pointing out safety issues (a doctor was fired for pointing out a coworker of his was not following hygiene laws before operating and was fired for it ((she was a muslim who didn't wash her hands before operating if memory serves me right)).  If you guys like how you do business more power to you - just leave us alone.  We don't point out that the testosterone levels in Europe are critically low and leading to a birth rate deficiency.  We don't point out that during news years eve a couple years ago coordinated you guys let gangs of refugees go around sexually assailing and raping your women and not one "man" tried to physically intervein.  We don't point out that most Europeans still think of themselves as peasants and look up to the aristocracy and elites as their natural betters who deserve to tell them what to think and how to live.  How about you guys do your thing and we do ours and neither of us tries to impose our political and social views on the other.
    OG_ZorvanultimateduckIkisisCaffynated
  • ChicagoCubChicagoCub Member UncommonPosts: 381
    edited August 2019
    If media doesn't influence behavior why do you have to be 17 to see certain violent movies or 18 to view or buy pornographic material?
    Aeander
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 973
    If media doesn't influence behavior why do you have to be 17 to see certain violent movies or 18 to view or buy pornographic material?
    Clearly it is the violence.  Super Mario brothers is ultra-violent and should be banned.  So is Pokeman and other stuff like that revolved around violent battle sports.  
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,009
    Most influential thing to mass shooters are the press and politicians.  These are acts of imitation.  
    Viper482JeffSpicoliblamo2000
  • FinvegaFinvega Member UncommonPosts: 172
    The 2nd Amendment is not primarily about hunting or self defense, but about the the right's of a free citizenry to check abusive political power. Back in the day they recognized the danger of totalitarian (a King) government. The 2nd Amendment is meant as such a check. Just saying, not suggesting anything.  
    OG_ZorvanCaffynatedblamo2000
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,032
    edited August 2019
    If media doesn't influence behavior why do you have to be 17 to see certain violent movies or 18 to view or buy pornographic material?
    I think for small children it's needed because their ability to tell story from reality is more limited than us adults. If you can't tell a story from reality, then media influences your behavior a lot. Also small children should be protected from emotional shocks that come with adult stories.

    For older children, I don't honestly know. But to be realistic, the older ones don't have to be 17/18 to see that stuff, it's a law that no child really follows.


    EDIT: @ChicagoCub thanks for saying something that brought the discussion back on topic. I think the discussion was going pretty far off-topic before you arrived
     
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,788
    I would argue that they do aid in enhancing the probability in people that are already borderline psychotic.
    What i would fear is that maybe 30..50 years from now some government will cite national security and use profiling to label people,perhaps mark people,maybe even detain people within security places claiming they are a potential risk.

    I would be way more concerned with the power struggles over money.Our lives will be more treacherous year after year all because of money,from health care to schools to laws and regulations,what you can and can't do.I just look at the brain dead people who helped legalize pot in Canada,yeah we better be scared of our governments,a LOT more than we should be scared of video games.
    Aeander

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Mmochamp19Mmochamp19 Newbie CommonPosts: 12
    Vrika said:
    Viper482 said:
    Vrika said:
    Vrika said:
    OG_Zorvan said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Meanwhile in Europe, same games, no mass shooting.
    Could it be that the difference is that in Europe they don’t sell automatic guns at the mall?

    I don’t know what will it take for Americans to understand that automatic weapons, in particular rifles are made for wars, not for civilians consumption.

    Why do you need an M16 for personal defence?
    What kind of scenario requires the use of an automatic rifle in a civilian environment?
    I really don’t get it.
    Automatic weapons have been banned for a long, long time in the U.S. for civilian use. We only have legal access to semi-automatic.
    Those are still weapons that no-one would have around for self-defence unless they're planning to defend from some kind of military invasion.

    But much larger distinction is than in Europe even most of the gun-holders don't think their guns are there for self defence. They may be kept for hunting, or as a hobby, and some old-timers still feel it's needed in case of a military invasion. Europeans are more likely to think how they can call 112 in emergency, or perhaps have pepper spray in hand. Honest people carrying a gun around is only done in America.
    An AR15 is a perfect weapon for in home self defense, most people cant shoot a pistol accurately from 10 yards, much less under stress in the dark
    You won't even notice an attacker before he's right besides your house trying to break in, let alone have time to grab your weapon before he's arrived.


    Absurd. There are stories all the time about armed citizens defending their home against intruders, easy google can completely render your argument null. I do disagree that AR-15 is a "perfect" weapon for home defense. That would be a tactical shotgun with the right ammo. https://www.range365.com/choosing-shotgun-ammo-for-home-defense/
    I didn't say there'd be no stories about defending your home, but it's absurd to think you'd notice an actual attacker before he's right at your house.

    I do agree with you about shotgun, though. It's something that you'd want to use because it's for close range, while a weapon like AR15 is more good for shooting someone who at that point isn't a serious threat to your life anyway.
    I dont want to insult you or anything, but its obvious you have never been trained in firearms.  To make this statement shows.  Ask anyone in the military what weapons they use in close range.  You think they switch to a pistol?  99% of the time they use a Rifle, always, doesnt matter how close they are.  The only time they will switch is when clearing small closets, and thats not even cetrain

    you do know about 21 foot rule right?  would you consider that close?  Cause most people cant drop anyone with a hand gun at 21 feet while the target is moving towards you.  And most women cant handle the kick of alot of shotguns.  My wife is trained to use a rifle, and knows thats what she goes for if she needs it
    Horusra
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,148
    Most likely people who are inclined to do mass shooting are led to play video games as a release of sorts.  Video games are a symptom not a cause.  Loner, violent tendencies, inability to relate meaningfully with others.....sounds like a gamer.
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,831
    edited August 2019
    Bellomo said:
    Police trained with ar 15s used over 60 bullets to stop the Ohio shooter and you want us normal civilians to try to stop an armed intruder with just 2 shots out of a shotgun?  Drugs like heroine are illegal and yet more people get their hands on them and cause more deaths that all type of guns put together but you want me to believe by getting rid of guns gun crimes will stop?

    Common sense has left the American public and I fear what rights they want to get rid of next.


    2 shotgun rounds? Is this the 1800's? Holy hell. A home defense shotgun will hold 6-10 rounds...and YES, an untrained person who has never fired a gun in their life *with the right ammo* merely has to point the shotgun in the general direction and pull the trigger. This is exactly why a shotgun is the best choice.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
This discussion has been closed.