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OPINION: Red’s Read on Exclusives - MMORPG.com

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  • KratierKratier Member UncommonPosts: 87
    bringing the cancer of console wars to PC , any discussion is normalization of the behavior of literally the worst possible outcome EVER for consumers on the pc platform. it is awful and will hurt our future generations of gamers for decades to come, just like when you sit there normalizing loot crates for the 5th year in a row
    BeansnBreadelveoneAeander
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,591
    mbrodie said:
    Celcius said:
    mbrodie said:
    Celcius said:

    k61977 said:

    I see exclusivity as fear in not being able to compete in an open market. I also will never buy an game as long as it is exclusive. Throughout my life there have been many games made that might have been great, but I didn't buy them because they were console exclusive to this or that console. I will not do exclusive on PC the same way I never have on console. It is a personal choice. If your game or platform can't stand on it's on an it has to hide behind things like offering discounts through things like exclusivity then I don't need either. I don't care about the reasons why a dev goes that route either, as a customer I just will not support it.



    I also think it is absolutely despicable what some of these crowdfunded games have done (Ooblets and that one game sorta like Xcom which I forgot the name of) promising Steam versions and then selling out for an exclusivity deal.

    Epics Exclusive deals are timed, other PC platforms will get all the games eventually
    Yeah and that is fair enough I suppose, but I just think it is pretty disingenuous when it is a crowd funded game because people are quite literally giving you money with the expectation that when it is released they will be able to play it on the platform that you originally said it would be on. I don't really think anyone who wants to play a crowd funded game on Steam on day 1 will be very happy if they can't play it on Steam while people who don't mind Epic play it there.

    Maybe I should have been a bit more specific though; Using crowd funding as a platform to signal boost your game to the point where Epic buys your game as an exclusive and you no longer need the crowd funding is downright dirty. These companies are essentially using people's good will (donations towards their crowdfunding campaign) towards something that didn't need their support in the first place. If your game is crowd funded and you want to gain additional funding that is something you need to show to your backers while keeping the original integrity of the game intact.(Not changing the original plan for example) It is not something you should be sharing with a 3rd party to get a quick buck while simultaneously telling all the people who helped you get to that point that they will have an extra "We are still making the game, BUT..." in the mix.
    I agree with your point but there is a big BUT.

    Life isn't that black and white, expense happens, things you can't account for arise in the gaming development world, extended development time, needing to hire more people for whatever reason, creditors calling, just life happening it can't be helped and sometimes there is things that happen which are just unavoidable.

    I have no reason to believe that at any point they were crowdfunding with the intention of getting picked up with an exclusivity deal with Epic. I also believe that the choice would not have been easy for them and that it was probably a lengthy process for them to say yes to it, they have an idea of how many they need to sell and how many they want to sell and maybe the market forecasting for releasing on Steam wasn't going to get them where they needed to be.

    Especially for a studio of 2 people who would have been primarily self funded outside of outsourcing.. it's ok for us to look in and cast judgement but can any of us honestly say if we were in that situation and epic came along saying "hey we will guarantee you X amount of sales on our store and if we don't reach that target don't stress we gonna pay the difference" after looking at our own financials and weighing up what could and couldn't happen we wouldn't take the deal, i can honestly say if i had been pouring my blood sweat and tears into something for x amount of years, i'd want to take the best deal on the table.

    I don't think anyone sets out to be disingenuous but we are all human and we're all gonna do whats best for ourselves, at the end of the day anyone who backed it on kickstarter is still gonna get the game, might not be on their preferred platform but you're still getting the game.
    It is not a matter of whether or not they were purposely being disingenuous, it is just how it ended up. Even if it is just perception. Perception is everything.
    elveone
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,477
    edited August 11
    Celcius said:
    mbrodie said:
    Celcius said:
    mbrodie said:
    Celcius said:

    k61977 said:

    I see exclusivity as fear in not being able to compete in an open market. I also will never buy an game as long as it is exclusive. Throughout my life there have been many games made that might have been great, but I didn't buy them because they were console exclusive to this or that console. I will not do exclusive on PC the same way I never have on console. It is a personal choice. If your game or platform can't stand on it's on an it has to hide behind things like offering discounts through things like exclusivity then I don't need either. I don't care about the reasons why a dev goes that route either, as a customer I just will not support it.



    I also think it is absolutely despicable what some of these crowdfunded games have done (Ooblets and that one game sorta like Xcom which I forgot the name of) promising Steam versions and then selling out for an exclusivity deal.

    Epics Exclusive deals are timed, other PC platforms will get all the games eventually
    Yeah and that is fair enough I suppose, but I just think it is pretty disingenuous when it is a crowd funded game because people are quite literally giving you money with the expectation that when it is released they will be able to play it on the platform that you originally said it would be on. I don't really think anyone who wants to play a crowd funded game on Steam on day 1 will be very happy if they can't play it on Steam while people who don't mind Epic play it there.

    Maybe I should have been a bit more specific though; Using crowd funding as a platform to signal boost your game to the point where Epic buys your game as an exclusive and you no longer need the crowd funding is downright dirty. These companies are essentially using people's good will (donations towards their crowdfunding campaign) towards something that didn't need their support in the first place. If your game is crowd funded and you want to gain additional funding that is something you need to show to your backers while keeping the original integrity of the game intact.(Not changing the original plan for example) It is not something you should be sharing with a 3rd party to get a quick buck while simultaneously telling all the people who helped you get to that point that they will have an extra "We are still making the game, BUT..." in the mix.
    I agree with your point but there is a big BUT.

    Life isn't that black and white, expense happens, things you can't account for arise in the gaming development world, extended development time, needing to hire more people for whatever reason, creditors calling, just life happening it can't be helped and sometimes there is things that happen which are just unavoidable.

    I have no reason to believe that at any point they were crowdfunding with the intention of getting picked up with an exclusivity deal with Epic. I also believe that the choice would not have been easy for them and that it was probably a lengthy process for them to say yes to it, they have an idea of how many they need to sell and how many they want to sell and maybe the market forecasting for releasing on Steam wasn't going to get them where they needed to be.

    Especially for a studio of 2 people who would have been primarily self funded outside of outsourcing.. it's ok for us to look in and cast judgement but can any of us honestly say if we were in that situation and epic came along saying "hey we will guarantee you X amount of sales on our store and if we don't reach that target don't stress we gonna pay the difference" after looking at our own financials and weighing up what could and couldn't happen we wouldn't take the deal, i can honestly say if i had been pouring my blood sweat and tears into something for x amount of years, i'd want to take the best deal on the table.

    I don't think anyone sets out to be disingenuous but we are all human and we're all gonna do whats best for ourselves, at the end of the day anyone who backed it on kickstarter is still gonna get the game, might not be on their preferred platform but you're still getting the game.
    It is not a matter of whether or not they were purposely being disingenuous, it is just how it ended up. Even if it is just perception. Perception is everything.
    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine
    Red_Thomaselveone
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 544
    Zegaloth said:


    Ill just leave this here.

    "Epic Games acknowledged and fixed the issue, but the suit alleges that the company has failed to notify affected users. “Epic Games has not yet directly informed or notified individual Fortnite users that their [personally identifiable information] may be compromised as a result of the breach,” the lawsuit says.

    According to the filing, the plaintiff and anyone else affected by the breaches “have an ongoing interest in ensuring that their [personally identifiable information] is protected from past and future cybersecurity threats."

    Very honest, very cool.





    Didn't Steam get nailed to the wall for exactly the same thing not too long ago and wasn't their response pretty much the same thing?

    Not that one really makes the other okay, but you're talking about a corporate response to a specific situation.   The attorneys are unlikely to have allowed them to do anything else, and I doubt their board of directors would have tolerated anything that went against the legal advice they were provided with.

    As someone who works in cyber, I can say their response is relatively typical of what clients are advised to do by their legal counsel and not really indicative of superior or inferior ethics.
    elveone
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 544
    Just dropping this tidbit in here.

    https://amonitoring.ru/article/steamclient-0day/
    I'm not sure dropping 0-days on a game forum is a responsible or ethical thing to do.

  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 544
    mbrodie said:
    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine
    Amazing how different the world looks once you own/operate your own SMB, isn't it?  =)
  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,711
    Ultimately, "exclusivity" hurts everyone. It hurts the consumer because then don't get the benefits of the lower costs offered by those companies offering exclusivity. It hurts the gamers because some gamers will not see that at game is on another platform. It hurts developers because their product is not being offered in a larger market where eveyone has the chance to purchase it.
    elveone

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,207
    edited August 11
    mbrodie said:

    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine



    No one should be receiving death threats or harassing anyone over a game (or anything else really). I think 99% of people would agree with that.  Unfortunately, it's the actions of the minority of people that seem drag everyone else down.  It doesn't change the fact that the developer of Ooblets acted like the entitled, toxic man-baby that he accused anyone who doesn't like Epic and their practice of buying exclusives of being.  And that was BEFORE the he started getting harassed and threatened.  That dev is clearly an asshole so my sympathy level for him is the same for when bad things happen to other people who act like assholes.  Ooblets dev guy really isn't the hill people want to die on for this issue.


    Post edited by Ginaz on
    elveonePhry

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 268
    Gruug said:
    Ultimately, "exclusivity" hurts everyone. It hurts the consumer because then don't get the benefits of the lower costs offered by those companies offering exclusivity. It hurts the gamers because some gamers will not see that at game is on another platform. It hurts developers because their product is not being offered in a larger market where eveyone has the chance to purchase it.
    So it hurts the consumer because he doesn't receive something he wouldn't have received otherwise anyway? And it hurts "gamers" which are apparently different from the "consumer" because some of them would not look at a different platform because... why? Oh, and apparently the developers are hurt because although multiple stores have the same target market when something is exclusive to one store then this market is limited in some way?

    And of course let's forget the fact that store exclusive content is paid by the store which means the store subsidizes the creation of new content for the market so in the end exclusives would mean more money for people developing products in the market and more variety of products in the market for the consumer. It doesn't matter when in the time of development money goes to publishers and developers - in the end there is more money in the publishers and developers which would mean more money to reinvest in development for new games.
    Red_ThomasAeander
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 268
    Ginaz said:
    mbrodie said:

    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine



    No one should be receiving death threats or harassing anyone over a game (or anything else really). I think 99% of people would agree with that.  Unfortunately, it's the actions of the minority of people that seem drag everyone else down.  It doesn't change the fact that the developer of Ooblets acted like the entitled, toxic man-baby that he accused anyone who doesn't like Epic and their practice of buying exclusives of being.  And that was BEFORE the he started getting harassed and threatened.  That dev is clearly an asshole so my sympathy level for him is the same for when bad things happen to other people who act like assholes.  Ooblets dev guy really isn't the hill people want to die on for this issue.


    So no one should receive death threats but he kind of deserves it, eh? Great stance to have!

    Also on the same topic I am kind of sick of people who interpret humor as an insult in order to justify being a dick while pursuing their own agenda.
  • EvilGamingEvilGaming Member UncommonPosts: 21
    I'm sick and tired of new DRM I already have Origin, Uplay, and Steam oh and then there is the windows marketplace and blizzard bs thanks god destiny is going to steam........ if you cant release on on steam origin or Uplay then I'm not going to buy your game period and if it does look good well ill just wait and pirate it and not worry about drm
    elveone
  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,626
    im not going to read all of it, im just here to say what ever makes the games cheaper for me im all for it. i dont give a crap who sells the game or what rich company loses money.
  • eolseeolse Member UncommonPosts: 77
    hell yeah it's bad for consumers , how many new release games have we been able to buy 5-10$ off on sites like greenman gaming , i mean Right now if i want borderlands 3 pre order i have to pay the FULL 100 bucks to get the season pass with it , any other game before that on sites like greenman I could buy it at like 80-85$ witch made me buy that verson of that game , Ive played 1,000 hours of BL 1 and 2 and right now im skipping BL 3 because they are not interested in there Fan base . Epic games wants to get more sells than they should make compitition and REASONS to buy it on there store by like having a better interface than Steam , or better customer support or what ever reason , FORCEing people to buy on Epic because they try to monoplize the market and screwing over consumers does not make me want to do any Business with any companys that will put money and greed over that fans & consumers . means they have no faith in there product anyways.
    elveone
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 865
    edited August 12
    eolse said:
    hell yeah it's bad for consumers , how many new release games have we been able to buy 5-10$ off on sites like greenman gaming , i mean Right now if i want borderlands 3 pre order i have to pay the FULL 100 bucks to get the season pass with it , any other game before that on sites like greenman I could buy it at like 80-85$ witch made me buy that verson of that game , Ive played 1,000 hours of BL 1 and 2 and right now im skipping BL 3 because they are not interested in there Fan base . Epic games wants to get more sells than they should make compitition and REASONS to buy it on there store by like having a better interface than Steam , or better customer support or what ever reason , FORCEing people to buy on Epic because they try to monoplize the market and screwing over consumers does not make me want to do any Business with any companys that will put money and greed over that fans & consumers . means they have no faith in there product anyways.
    They have the Base Game for 59.99, Base Game + Digital Content for 79.99 or Base Game + Digital Content + Season Pass for 99.99, just an FYI. I'm not sure about other Dev's, but even at full price of $40 for a Season Pass from GearBox will be a good deal, because they usually do DLC's right. I think these price points are set by the Dev and not EGS right? I could be wrong.

    I have so much to play right now that I'm prbly going to wait for the Ultimate GOTY edition of BL3 wherever it's cheapest and on sale when I finally get to a place to finally play it.

    I'm guessing EGS will have some sale of it the minute their exclusivity time runs out as well, but I may still wait to get the UGOTY for $20 or so by the time I get to it.

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,207
    elveone said:
    Ginaz said:
    mbrodie said:

    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine



    No one should be receiving death threats or harassing anyone over a game (or anything else really). I think 99% of people would agree with that.  Unfortunately, it's the actions of the minority of people that seem drag everyone else down.  It doesn't change the fact that the developer of Ooblets acted like the entitled, toxic man-baby that he accused anyone who doesn't like Epic and their practice of buying exclusives of being.  And that was BEFORE the he started getting harassed and threatened.  That dev is clearly an asshole so my sympathy level for him is the same for when bad things happen to other people who act like assholes.  Ooblets dev guy really isn't the hill people want to die on for this issue.


    So no one should receive death threats but he kind of deserves it, eh? Great stance to have!

    Also on the same topic I am kind of sick of people who interpret humor as an insult in order to justify being a dick while pursuing their own agenda.
    Never said he deserves to receive death threats or any of the rest of the harassment he's received.  It's just that my GAF Factor is usually pretty low when bad things happen to bad people or people who do bad things.  Like, if someone was to rob my mother of her purse on the street and then when running away he was hit by a car, I wouldn't be all that upset about it.  The thief certainly wouldn't have deserved being injured or killed just for stealing a purse but would anyone honestly feel too sorry for him?  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,477
    Ginaz said:
    mbrodie said:

    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine



    No one should be receiving death threats or harassing anyone over a game (or anything else really). I think 99% of people would agree with that.  Unfortunately, it's the actions of the minority of people that seem drag everyone else down.  It doesn't change the fact that the developer of Ooblets acted like the entitled, toxic man-baby that he accused anyone who doesn't like Epic and their practice of buying exclusives of being.  And that was BEFORE the he started getting harassed and threatened.  That dev is clearly an asshole so my sympathy level for him is the same for when bad things happen to other people who act like assholes.  Ooblets dev guy really isn't the hill people want to die on for this issue.


    Hate to tell you, but the actions of the community kind of proved his point didn't it...

    the original comment was made tongue in cheek, he was trying to be a smartass to make light of the situation until the community used it as some kind of personal attack against them and started making death threats etc...

    Regardless - if someone calls you entitled and your response is to threaten their life and harass them, maybe you need to reassess your priorities and see a psychologist
    mbrodie said:
    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine
    Amazing how different the world looks once you own/operate your own SMB, isn't it?  =)
    yeah it's easy to have an opinion where you've never had to face the decisions which impact people you have a responsibility to financially.... which hurts people you've employed in the short term but strengthens your position in the long...

    not every decision is made about whats happening right now, sometimes you have to aim for the long game.
    elveoneRed_Thomas
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,477
    edited August 12
    eolse said:
    hell yeah it's bad for consumers , how many new release games have we been able to buy 5-10$ off on sites like greenman gaming , i mean Right now if i want borderlands 3 pre order i have to pay the FULL 100 bucks to get the season pass with it , any other game before that on sites like greenman I could buy it at like 80-85$ witch made me buy that verson of that game , Ive played 1,000 hours of BL 1 and 2 and right now im skipping BL 3 because they are not interested in there Fan base . Epic games wants to get more sells than they should make compitition and REASONS to buy it on there store by like having a better interface than Steam , or better customer support or what ever reason , FORCEing people to buy on Epic because they try to monoplize the market and screwing over consumers does not make me want to do any Business with any companys that will put money and greed over that fans & consumers . means they have no faith in there product anyways.
    i guess the fact that greenman integrates into the epic API and you can buy and add keys from 3rd party sites to add to epic has eluded you

    https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/borderlands-3-pc/

    i don't wanna say you've stuck your head in the sand and just ignore the actual facts... but you ignore actual facts.

    Do you have anymore fallacies you'd like to spread here today?

    Also i've had a much better customer support experience on Epic than i have with steam in the past, but obviuously experiences can differ from person to person, also the UI is subjective too.

    elveoneRed_Thomas
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    elveone said:
    Ginaz said:
    mbrodie said:

    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine



    No one should be receiving death threats or harassing anyone over a game (or anything else really). I think 99% of people would agree with that.  Unfortunately, it's the actions of the minority of people that seem drag everyone else down.  It doesn't change the fact that the developer of Ooblets acted like the entitled, toxic man-baby that he accused anyone who doesn't like Epic and their practice of buying exclusives of being.  And that was BEFORE the he started getting harassed and threatened.  That dev is clearly an asshole so my sympathy level for him is the same for when bad things happen to other people who act like assholes.  Ooblets dev guy really isn't the hill people want to die on for this issue.


    So no one should receive death threats but he kind of deserves it, eh? Great stance to have!

    Also on the same topic I am kind of sick of people who interpret humor as an insult in order to justify being a dick while pursuing their own agenda.
    If you go out into the street and start randomly insulting people, eventually someone will likely punch you, sure you can complain about it, but nobody would really take your complaint seriously, thats pretty much the situation the Ooblets dev finds himself in, whether he deserved it is a matter of opinion but nobody was really surprised he was getting flack for his behaviour. :/
    elveone
  • nomadienomadie Member UncommonPosts: 142
    We don't need things to end up like Consoles do with their own games. I am tired of having so many launchers. I play a lot of mmorpgs and all of them have their own launchers! I have like 12 freaking launchers. Though, at least even a lot of the basic Korean launchers are better than Epic's crap.
    mbrodieelveone
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 268
    Phry said:
    elveone said:
    Ginaz said:
    mbrodie said:

    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine



    No one should be receiving death threats or harassing anyone over a game (or anything else really). I think 99% of people would agree with that.  Unfortunately, it's the actions of the minority of people that seem drag everyone else down.  It doesn't change the fact that the developer of Ooblets acted like the entitled, toxic man-baby that he accused anyone who doesn't like Epic and their practice of buying exclusives of being.  And that was BEFORE the he started getting harassed and threatened.  That dev is clearly an asshole so my sympathy level for him is the same for when bad things happen to other people who act like assholes.  Ooblets dev guy really isn't the hill people want to die on for this issue.


    So no one should receive death threats but he kind of deserves it, eh? Great stance to have!

    Also on the same topic I am kind of sick of people who interpret humor as an insult in order to justify being a dick while pursuing their own agenda.
    If you go out into the street and start randomly insulting people, eventually someone will likely punch you, sure you can complain about it, but nobody would really take your complaint seriously, thats pretty much the situation the Ooblets dev finds himself in, whether he deserved it is a matter of opinion but nobody was really surprised he was getting flack for his behaviour. :/
    It is more like telling a joke on the street and suddenly mob comes from around the corner and starts beating you up.
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 268
    Ginaz said:
    elveone said:
    Ginaz said:
    mbrodie said:

    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine



    No one should be receiving death threats or harassing anyone over a game (or anything else really). I think 99% of people would agree with that.  Unfortunately, it's the actions of the minority of people that seem drag everyone else down.  It doesn't change the fact that the developer of Ooblets acted like the entitled, toxic man-baby that he accused anyone who doesn't like Epic and their practice of buying exclusives of being.  And that was BEFORE the he started getting harassed and threatened.  That dev is clearly an asshole so my sympathy level for him is the same for when bad things happen to other people who act like assholes.  Ooblets dev guy really isn't the hill people want to die on for this issue.


    So no one should receive death threats but he kind of deserves it, eh? Great stance to have!

    Also on the same topic I am kind of sick of people who interpret humor as an insult in order to justify being a dick while pursuing their own agenda.
    Never said he deserves to receive death threats or any of the rest of the harassment he's received.  It's just that my GAF Factor is usually pretty low when bad things happen to bad people or people who do bad things.  Like, if someone was to rob my mother of her purse on the street and then when running away he was hit by a car, I wouldn't be all that upset about it.  The thief certainly wouldn't have deserved being injured or killed just for stealing a purse but would anyone honestly feel too sorry for him?  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
    Yeah, he did the bad thing of ensuring he and his wife profit from several years of work that they have invested and DARED TO JOKE ABOUT IT!
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 268
    eolse said:
    hell yeah it's bad for consumers , how many new release games have we been able to buy 5-10$ off on sites like greenman gaming , i mean Right now if i want borderlands 3 pre order i have to pay the FULL 100 bucks to get the season pass with it , any other game before that on sites like greenman I could buy it at like 80-85$ witch made me buy that verson of that game , Ive played 1,000 hours of BL 1 and 2 and right now im skipping BL 3 because they are not interested in there Fan base . Epic games wants to get more sells than they should make compitition and REASONS to buy it on there store by like having a better interface than Steam , or better customer support or what ever reason , FORCEing people to buy on Epic because they try to monoplize the market and screwing over consumers does not make me want to do any Business with any companys that will put money and greed over that fans & consumers . means they have no faith in there product anyways.
    https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/borderlands-3-pc/
    https://www.fanatical.com/en/game/borderlands-3
    https://www.humblebundle.com/store/borderlands-3

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    elveone said:
    Phry said:
    elveone said:
    Ginaz said:
    mbrodie said:

    yeah the perception of the few fans who were so morally outraged that they made death threats and harassed the devs is not the perception that anyone should concern themselves with.

    Secondly, i pray some day you don't own businesses and have to make decisions that affect people in a negative way but do so for the best of your business, it's not easy making the hard calls but sometimes you have too.

    I completely agree with their decision as my wife and i own 3 small businesses i've been in the position where i had to make hard decisions and it wasn't always favorable but we're here and stronger now because of it.

    I'm sure regardless of how it's perceived the game will do fine



    No one should be receiving death threats or harassing anyone over a game (or anything else really). I think 99% of people would agree with that.  Unfortunately, it's the actions of the minority of people that seem drag everyone else down.  It doesn't change the fact that the developer of Ooblets acted like the entitled, toxic man-baby that he accused anyone who doesn't like Epic and their practice of buying exclusives of being.  And that was BEFORE the he started getting harassed and threatened.  That dev is clearly an asshole so my sympathy level for him is the same for when bad things happen to other people who act like assholes.  Ooblets dev guy really isn't the hill people want to die on for this issue.


    So no one should receive death threats but he kind of deserves it, eh? Great stance to have!

    Also on the same topic I am kind of sick of people who interpret humor as an insult in order to justify being a dick while pursuing their own agenda.
    If you go out into the street and start randomly insulting people, eventually someone will likely punch you, sure you can complain about it, but nobody would really take your complaint seriously, thats pretty much the situation the Ooblets dev finds himself in, whether he deserved it is a matter of opinion but nobody was really surprised he was getting flack for his behaviour. :/
    It is more like telling a joke on the street and suddenly mob comes from around the corner and starts beating you up.
    If the guy had been 'telling jokes' i dare say he would have got more than a few of them in reply, instead he went and insulted the gaming community in general, that never ends well.
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 268
    edited August 12
    Phry said:

    If the guy had been 'telling jokes' i dare say he would have got more than a few of them in reply, instead he went and insulted the gaming community in general, that never ends well.
    No, he didn't insult anyone really. Hence my previous point of "I am kind of sick of people who interpret humor as an insult in order to justify being a dick while pursuing their own agenda". The anti-epic mob went nuts against a guy who tried to make light of a situation that should not be taken seriously to begin with.
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 544
    Phry said:
    If you go out into the street and start randomly insulting people, eventually someone will likely punch you, sure you can complain about it, but nobody would really take your complaint seriously, thats pretty much the situation the Ooblets dev finds himself in, whether he deserved it is a matter of opinion but nobody was really surprised he was getting flack for his behaviour. :/
    Well, whoever punched you would have committed assault, and that's a crime, so maybe not your best allegorical example.
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