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OPINION: Red’s Read on Exclusives - MMORPG.com

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  • ZegalothZegaloth Member UncommonPosts: 128
    In the world we live in now, arguing about a so called store "exclusive" is just a complete and utter waste of time. There has to be something better we all can be doing. Japanese have an awesome word for this. くだらない kudaranai
    Google translate will tell you it means "stupid" or "frivolous", but its a combination of those and "worthless" I'd say


    Fighting against anti consumer practices is hardly stupid or frivolous. All companies need to be held accountable for their anti consumer practices. This is an easier battle to fight than most.
    RhoklawelveoneEricDanie
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,105

    elveone said:

    Ultimately more money going to people who actually make games instead of to people who hold up a storefront is a good thing. Most of the complaints against Epic are nitpicks or things that can be substituted in multitude of ways. The only viable problem I can see is people being used to regional pricing for their region and regional pricing for that Region being missing in EGS.



    Missing 80% of the customer facing features is not nitpicking. Its a bare bones distribution platform missing the features I need to objectively decide if I want to by a game. Its pretty much just here's a picture of a game with a brief description, give us your money.
    RhoklawEricDanie
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,622
    edited August 9
    Why are we waking up now to exclusives when they have been going on for over 20 years.

    Way back in the day EA garnered the rights to label their hockey game as nlhpa,the national hockey leagues player association.No other developer could make a game labeled nhlpa.

    The same goes for SWTOR,nobody else could make a Star Wars mmorpg.

    Devs often sign licenses to be able to cash in on favorable well known IP's,names,people etc etc while locking out their competitors.Does it perhaps infringe on the FAIR business practices the FTC has set in place as law,well complain to the FTC then or the government offices.Good luck though as those offices are real lazy,they couldn't care less about anyone or your complaints unless they see a tidy financial win fall or someone is complaining about some child abuse related topic.

    So now Epic has a few exclusives and all of a sudden is a bad day at the office?

    I have a simple answer for you as the consumer.First of all,exclusives is what the developer wants to hopefully ensure a successful product,so in essence Epic is offering what businesses want.Guess what YOUR option as a consumer is?

    Yep tell them to shove it if you don't like it,you think gaming is something we NEED to do,think again.You don't like something,stop supporting it,guess who gets the message loud and clear,yep the perpetrator's.

    Only thing i don't like is pointing fingers at one entity when it is going on a lot all over the place,not just in gaming.


    elveoneKyleranRed_Thomas

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,171

    k61977 said:

    I see exclusivity as fear in not being able to compete in an open market. I also will never buy an game as long as it is exclusive. Throughout my life there have been many games made that might have been great, but I didn't buy them because they were console exclusive to this or that console. I will not do exclusive on PC the same way I never have on console. It is a personal choice. If your game or platform can't stand on it's on an it has to hide behind things like offering discounts through things like exclusivity then I don't need either. I don't care about the reasons why a dev goes that route either, as a customer I just will not support it.


    This is just bitterness talking. When you use logic you don’t come to these conclusions.
    elveoneKyleran
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,606
    In the end, we'll all choose where we will buy our games. I for one do NOT support exclusive games. I'm not going down that road. I don't do console anymore because what is the point? Even though I have Windows 10, I didn't support Sea of Thieves or State of Decay 2. If a game developer wants to play this exclusivity nonsense, so be it. They won't be seeing my money.
    elveoneKyleranEricDanie

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,454
    As far as I can tell Epic's "exclusive" titles will be on e.g. Steam after 12 months. So this is basically the same deal that e.g. devs have been coming to with Sony PS or MS XB; a time limited period. 

    And many of their free games have been previously available. Or in the case of e.g. Alan Wake the only thing exclusive about it is that it is free on Epic - or you can pay c. $10 on Amazon etc.
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,481
    blamo2000 said:
    I'll take the anti-Epic store people seriously when they rage against Steam for having thousands of exclusive games only on Steam. Until then, they are a joke just mad their monopoly has a small competitor trying to break it. Nevermind the fact they make false claims of certain games being exclusive when they are on multiple PC game distributors, but just not on Steam temporarily (like Outer Worlds).
    ok tell me what game is steam only? who is not valve game? and tht steam only is because steam forced the devs to only drop there



    anyway reading all comments, I can undertand most don't know what they are talking about, always nice to read these, always funny




    sorry who forced all the games on the epic store to be there? offering someone a lucrative deal they can't look past isn't forcing them... epic didn't hold any guns to anyones heads they chose to go to epic themselves.

    Also Atlas is only available on steam, and several physical games i bought int he past i opened up to get a steam key much to my dismay
    elveoneRed_Thomas
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,481
    Ginaz said:
    blamo2000 said:
    I'll take the anti-Epic store people seriously when they rage against Steam for having thousands of exclusive games only on Steam. Until then, they are a joke just mad their monopoly has a small competitor trying to break it. Nevermind the fact they make false claims of certain games being exclusive when they are on multiple PC game distributors, but just not on Steam temporarily (like Outer Worlds).
    Steam doesn't have any exclusive games other than ones made by Valve and Valve has never paid developers for exclusivity as far as I know.  Care to point any out?  As far as I know, all the games on Steam are capable of being distributed on other platforms if the developers wanted to.
    i mean if the developer wanted to not be exclusive to epic they have that choice....

    it goes both ways.
    elveone
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,481
    Ginaz said:
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    Ginaz said:
    They're essentially driving up to the front doors of all these smaller developers with a truck load of cash and buying them off. That might be good for the developers but not so good for consumers.

    What exactly is "the not so good for consumers" part of exclusivity on a free launcher?

    I get that people hate Epic and Sweeny and the fact that Tencent owns a piece or whatever else annoys you about them ,and that some may want to boycott Epic for those or any other reason but I'm still waiting for a persuasive argument that it's bad for us.
    I'm still trying to see a persuasive argument there's any benefit at all for consumers, while I easily laid out the inconveniences, however minor you may feel them to be.

    When Epic starts saving "me" money, time or provides more convenience then maybe I'll care.

    Because yes, it really is all about me you know.

    ;)
    Exactly.  It's not about convenience or having to use another launcher.  No one has been able to point out any tangible benefits these exclusive deals have for the consumer.  If I could buy a new release game from EGS for say $40 instead of $50 then they might have a point. Instead, all that extra money developers get from Epic goes right into their own pockets.  I know they keep complaining about the 30% Steam takes but clearly modern day devs have no idea what it was like before Steam and other digital distribution systems.  In the past, PC games were only available in brick and mortar stores that were taking a hell of a lot more than 30%.  It was often more like 50% or more. 

    Also, Epic's launcher is 100% Gunk (that's right, junk with a G).  You would think with all that Fortnight money and looking at what Steam has done over the years they'd be able to come up with something that isn't hot garbage.  They want to compete with Steam yet they make ZERO effort to create something even close to what their competitor has even with all the resources and knowledge at their disposal.  And we won't even get into Epic's "customer support".



    could you stick your head further in the sand while blocking your ears and screaming NAH NAH NAH NAH I CANT HEAR YOU They actually had a platform to show you upcoming features and improvements and have been fairly consistent with doing a good job at hitting those timelines.

    https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap



    elveone
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 909
    I'm not sure what EGS is doing is any different than consoles have been doing from the beginning. I DL'd the launcher a while back (for free) when they were giving away Shadow Complex, and haven't looked back. 

    I'm not worried about their lack of features, because I don't use any of that shit on Steam either. Let me know when the feature creep reaches an acceptable level, so I'm allowed to play.  ;) I'm not blown away by Origin or U-Play either, tbh.

    I buy games when they're on sale wherever. I add all these Free weekly games to my Epic Library to play whenever also, and a lot of them were on my Steam Wish List as well, so that saved a lot of money. The same with Twitch. Does Twitch get a free pass on the hate? Do they not have exclusive deals?

    I'm def not happy juggling all these services/apps/launchers/etc. but that's our world now until the pendulum swings back down toward more user friendly efficient tech, if it ever does.

    I couldn't even understand the argument even if we did have to pay for Launchers, because I'm so used to consoles being this way forever.

    I invested a lot of money in a PS4 specifically for all their great exclusives, and I've done the same for Nintendo systems. The investment in this argument is nothing but a few seconds of time, and a short DL, so it's just not the same. Buy the games wherever they're cheapest and nab as many free games as you can from everyone.

    Gut Out!
    elveonembrodieTacticalZombeh

    What, me worry?

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,545
    Not a problem for me as I only use Steam.  There are more good games on that service than any other and I could care less what Epic does, I just do not have time to try them all.

    EricDanie
  • SalmonManSalmonMan Member UncommonPosts: 154
    But I don’t care about devs, or the distribution companies.

    All I care about is convenience and price.

    Steam is convenient and any game will eventually be cheap at some point.
    OG_ZorvanRhoklawelveoneEricDanie
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 2,944
    Hmmm. This again.

    Epic gives developers financial security up to a certain level on units of their game sold, that is why developers go with the EGS. It means a lot of them don’t go out of business so that means more games for us, and in the current climate many companies are indeed struggling. Seems like pretty direct benefits for us.

    Steam has completely abandoned quality control when it comes to games on their store so it has turned into an open sewer of asset flips, half translated crap etc. To discover the gems you have to wade through pages of crap, many more clicks than having to pay twice because the EGS doesn’t have a cart yet. Very inconvenient no?

    A free game every week. Not free for the weekend or some other glorified demo like Steam has, no, an actual free game to keep. Its not current AAA stuff but there is definitely quality there.

    I don’t know, the rest of the reasoning against the EGS simply boils down to ‘not enough sales’ and ‘I don’t like their tactics.’ As to the first argument, the first sale they did was actually amazing. As for the second argument, that is fine and a choice, it doesn’t mean Epic did something bad.

    And one other funny thing. Last sale Steam grinded to a halt again, no page loading, not being able to pay etc. etc. It was a mess. No surprise since that has been happening for the last ten years but nobody whined about that, I can’t imagine the shitstorm here had that happened to the EGS.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    elveoneTacticalZombeh
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 2,944
    edited August 9
    Edit. Double post.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Post edited by lahnmir on
    elveone
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 1,897
    Ever consider, as Red pointed out, that Valve is justified for charging 30% for the features, including targeted marketing, they provide? While epic is I guess justified for only charging 15% since they provide basically nothing but a storefront?

    Also add in the fact that Epic basically "pre-buying" your game to guarantee you sales obviously has a catch. What do you think happens if you do not get the real sales to pay them back upon launch, hmm? I'm betting on some nasty "we now own your game" clauses in there somewhere, as Epic is not a charity after all.
    elveoneRed_ThomasEricDanie


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

  • geremadygeremady Member UncommonPosts: 69
    What it comes down to is that Epic is subsidising developers from their own pockets.

    One way or another they are gonna want to earn that money back someday.

    What happens then? 

    Something else: a while ago I thought I would buy  a game there so proceeded to make an account.
    emailadress, made a password and logged in: hello Srinan(?) from Thailand.

    I am from the Netherlands!

    You dont think I am gonna leave my creditcard-data on a site like that.
    EricDanie
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 268
    geremady said:
    What it comes down to is that Epic is subsidising developers from their own pockets.

    One way or another they are gonna want to earn that money back someday.

    What happens then? 

    Something else: a while ago I thought I would buy  a game there so proceeded to make an account.
    emailadress, made a password and logged in: hello Srinan(?) from Thailand.

    I am from the Netherlands!

    You dont think I am gonna leave my creditcard-data on a site like that.
    Most likely your credentials were leaked and someone made an account with them(for some stupid reason).
  • evolgrinzevolgrinz Member UncommonPosts: 123
    I was excited about Satisfactory And Borderlands 3, thought I would just wait for Steam release, but I already feel my excitement for those 2 games dropping and I probably won't even buy them anymore when they finally do release on Steam.
    EricDanie
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,597
    edited August 9

    k61977 said:

    I see exclusivity as fear in not being able to compete in an open market. I also will never buy an game as long as it is exclusive. Throughout my life there have been many games made that might have been great, but I didn't buy them because they were console exclusive to this or that console. I will not do exclusive on PC the same way I never have on console. It is a personal choice. If your game or platform can't stand on it's on an it has to hide behind things like offering discounts through things like exclusivity then I don't need either. I don't care about the reasons why a dev goes that route either, as a customer I just will not support it.



    So how does this work when you buy a game on PC that is only on PC? Exclusives work both ways. Anyways as for the OP: I tend to agree with a lot of what was said and do think exclusives are a necessary evil for a company attempting to compete with Steam. HOWEVER, I think that the way that Epic has been handling it has been dubious. Epic should buy COMPANIES not games. If Epic bought the company, supported the creation of their games, and made it exclusive to the EGS it would be much more acceptable in my opinion. I do think this is one of the reasons companies like Sony / Nintendo generally get a pass when it comes to their first party titles. That said, I do understand why a developer would take an exclusivity deal for a PR hit especially when most people will just buy the game anyways despite what they say. Nearly every industry relies on exclusive products to stand out and gaming is no different. That said: I am not really about defending the the companies that bail on Steam (Yes, this is not just on Epic, takes two to tango) the last minute for an exclusivity deal. I also think it is absolutely despicable what some of these crowdfunded games have done (Ooblets and that one game sorta like Xcom which I forgot the name of) promising Steam versions and then selling out for an exclusivity deal. I also think that the biggest problem besides the ones I just mentioned are related to the application itself personally. The program is an absolute mess. If you ever play an Epic title everyone can try to add you to your friends list because it uses your profile name in the game; so you get spammed with friend requests by bots. There is no way to disable videos auto playing in the store, no shopping cart, no achievements, no social profile system, no forums, ect,ect. The store needs a ton of work. My personal take on this whole thing: I don't really care if a game is exclusive. As long as I can play it I will play it if I want to play it. I will play games on EGS, Uplay, PS4, Switch, ect. As long as I own the hardware capable of playing the game I will play it if I want it. I don't really have some kind of morales when it comes to supporting a company that is being greedy tbh. I mean the reality is, I support companies like this nearly every day. Scumbag corporations that pull shady stunts are terrible, but you probably spend money on them too. (Wal-Mart,Google,Comcast,ect_) It is just the way the world spins unfortunately.
    elveone
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 268
    goboygo said:

    elveone said:

    Ultimately more money going to people who actually make games instead of to people who hold up a storefront is a good thing. Most of the complaints against Epic are nitpicks or things that can be substituted in multitude of ways. The only viable problem I can see is people being used to regional pricing for their region and regional pricing for that Region being missing in EGS.



    Missing 80% of the customer facing features is not nitpicking. Its a bare bones distribution platform missing the features I need to objectively decide if I want to by a game. Its pretty much just here's a picture of a game with a brief description, give us your money.
    Well, a store is a place where you buy things so literally it is doing it's job. Integrated reviews are a nice feature but they are not an essential feature and as such it is something that is still under development for EGS. And it is not like you cannot find a review for the game on alternative sources. I mean how many people are doing written and video reviews? How many sites are there that do game reviews specifically? And if you don't have a favorite reviewer there are at least three review aggregation sites(metacritic, opencritic, gamerankings). So how hard exactly is it to find out if you would like a game or not?
    mbrodieTacticalZombeh
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 268
    edited August 9
    OG_Zorvan said:
    Ever consider, as Red pointed out, that Valve is justified for charging 30% for the features, including targeted marketing, they provide? While epic is I guess justified for only charging 15% since they provide basically nothing but a storefront?

    Also add in the fact that Epic basically "pre-buying" your game to guarantee you sales obviously has a catch. What do you think happens if you do not get the real sales to pay them back upon launch, hmm? I'm betting on some nasty "we now own your game" clauses in there somewhere, as Epic is not a charity after all.
    Epic are not charity but what they are doing is paying for publicity. If the games don't sell then Epic are at a loss and have no-one to blame but themselves. Epic are not the devil, they don't get your firstborn when you sign a deal with them.

    As for Valve charging for features that they provide - they were charging that amount before they provided those features and those features are likely coming to EGS as well.
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,481
    geremady said:
    What it comes down to is that Epic is subsidising developers from their own pockets.

    One way or another they are gonna want to earn that money back someday.

    What happens then? 

    Something else: a while ago I thought I would buy  a game there so proceeded to make an account.
    emailadress, made a password and logged in: hello Srinan(?) from Thailand.

    I am from the Netherlands!

    You dont think I am gonna leave my creditcard-data on a site like that.

    thats only if the publisher / developer doesn't reach the minimum sale agreement that they decide on and by all accounts publishers / developers have been more than happy with sales figures on the EGS platform....

    not to mention, i'm sure Epic can keep this going for a loooooong time if they are only shelling out a few hundred to a mil or so here and there.
    elveone
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,597
    Ugh sorry about my previous post being a large block of text, sometimes I can't get the format of posts on this site to work properly.
    elveoneEricDanie
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,481
    Celcius said:

    k61977 said:

    I see exclusivity as fear in not being able to compete in an open market. I also will never buy an game as long as it is exclusive. Throughout my life there have been many games made that might have been great, but I didn't buy them because they were console exclusive to this or that console. I will not do exclusive on PC the same way I never have on console. It is a personal choice. If your game or platform can't stand on it's on an it has to hide behind things like offering discounts through things like exclusivity then I don't need either. I don't care about the reasons why a dev goes that route either, as a customer I just will not support it.



    I also think it is absolutely despicable what some of these crowdfunded games have done (Ooblets and that one game sorta like Xcom which I forgot the name of) promising Steam versions and then selling out for an exclusivity deal.

    Epics Exclusive deals are timed, other PC platforms will get all the games eventually
    elveone
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 268
    Ginaz said:
    blamo2000 said:
    I'll take the anti-Epic store people seriously when they rage against Steam for having thousands of exclusive games only on Steam. Until then, they are a joke just mad their monopoly has a small competitor trying to break it. Nevermind the fact they make false claims of certain games being exclusive when they are on multiple PC game distributors, but just not on Steam temporarily (like Outer Worlds).
    Steam doesn't have any exclusive games other than ones made by Valve and Valve has never paid developers for exclusivity as far as I know.  Care to point any out?  As far as I know, all the games on Steam are capable of being distributed on other platforms if the developers wanted to.
    Their revenue sharing policy gives incentivizes store exclusives due to it being based on how revenue share is being calculated. At $10 million Valve gets 25% instead of 30% and at $50 million they get 20%. This means that all big games are incentivized to stay exclusive to their store until those marks are hit because revenue split between multiple stores might cause them to miss those and thus receive smaller revenue share from where the majority of the sales would happen on PC(because of Steam's virtual monopoly). Effectively Valve are giving $500 000 for games to stay exclusive on their store until they hit $10 million in revenue and additional $2 500 000 to stay exclusive until they hit 50 million in revenue overall. There are no exclusivity deals - just great exclusivity incentives.
    mbrodieRed_Thomas
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