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Lets talk more about Niche.

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,721
Niche..... A select few. 

First lets put some thing into perspective,
Everquest 1....20 years ago. 
5000 players... 2000 are dead, 1000 had Heart Surgery, strokes or cancer.  For the healthy ones 1500 simply don't care about video games anymore.  That leaves 500 and 12 of them are here saying this niche will be for the 500 ! 


Pantheon will be gaining mojo.  MOST WILL NOT HAVE THE NICHE !
Most would spontaneous buy because it looks like fun to them.  First generation mmorpg's were designed with no thought involved and they turned out well for it's time.

Others besides the 1999 group will want to play. VR even talks about attracting new players... Well, most will be walking into this game alone..... This will be 10 to 1...... I can't stress this enough, for every EverQuest player their will be ten first timers.

Adapt quickly to 1999 standards or your out.... A waist of money for them !

Ten new players to the one that are pre-set up should be allowed to like group dynamics too, without the niche of pre-made friends. Visionary Realms has a responsibility to give haven to them.

Before you call me a butterfly think about the 10 to 1, and not about you having your group in place already. 



A premium match making system will have to be in place for 6 group players "all the time". Log in and get six players together is OK, but it better be backed up with a way to accomplish this. This is a challenge for the most hardcore.

6 players "all the time" goes beyond, niche old school friendship, or being social..... It could be a logistics mess.  Dungeons and Dragons Online pulled this off, but it had to be a lobby game. 
Post edited by delete5230 on
mmoloujimmywolf

Comments

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,724
    I see what you’re doing here old man. Very impressive.
  • XarkoXarko Member RarePosts: 1,113
    edited August 2
    I challenge you to NOT make a Pantheon thread in next 7 days.
    TokkenAmatheblueturtle13ScorchiengunklackerTwoTubes
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 2,788
    I wish you would STOP talking honestly.
    Amathe
  • Branko2307Branko2307 Member UncommonPosts: 316
    I like turtles.
    Mendelblueturtle13Xarko

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Holy Flamin' Frost-Brand Gronk-Slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' Woundin' an' Returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-Out-Yer-Bum!! ~Planescape: Torment~

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,176
    I like turtles.
    QFT.



    blueturtle13

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,784
    I like turtles.
    Turtles are life. 
    XarkoArteriusAmathe

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 1,606
    I think its well known on here that Pantheon will be Niche. I think even the devs know it. They said to keep the lights on and keep working on the game they only need 10-15k subs which is not a lot. I think their biggest hurdle is to make the game open to new players and not just the old EQ fans. Even if that means a opening turtorial of some kind that goes over how to find important quest giving NPC's, how to get around without a map, etc...

    Those things may seem obvious to those who played MMO's back in the day but now a days MMO's hold players hands alot.
    Sovrath
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,929
    Niche..... A select few. 

    First lets put some thing into perspective,
    Everquest 1....20 years ago. 
    5000 players... 2000 are dead, 1000 had Heart Surgery, strokes or cancer.  For the healthy ones 1500 simply don't care about video games anymore.  That leaves 500 and 12 of them are here saying this niche will be for the 500 ! 



    I almost think, at this point, you are just trolling us.

    Or trying to be funny?

    In any case, I just couldn't understand your point. Can you be a bit more succinct?
    AmatheArglebargle



  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,555
    edited August 2
    bcbully said:
    I see what you’re doing here old man. Very impressive.
    My hat's off to you then as he's got me stumped on what his point is and I'm usually pretty good at deciphering "deletespeak."

     :| 
    AmatheMendel

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,721
    Xarko said:
    I challenge you to NOT make a Pantheon thread in next 7 days.
    Your on, I can make it 7 days.







    Well kind of... but I'll try :)
    TokkenXarko
  • DafAtRandomDafAtRandom Member UncommonPosts: 21
    Well, if they get a "waist of money", I hope they will invest some in those darn animations !
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,724
    Kyleran said:
    bcbully said:
    I see what you’re doing here old man. Very impressive.
    My hat's off to you then as he's got me stumped on what his point is and I'm usually pretty good at deciphering "deletespeak."

     :| 
    He noticed that he generated soooo much hate for the game being a super fan, so what he did is turn himself into an anti-fan! His Pantheon threads get people attack him and defending the game instead of the other way around! Bloody brilliant lol 
    Kylerandelete5230
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,303
    edited August 3
    I would like to put the whole topic into a bit of perspective using myself a much older person having been there before and after mmorpg's became popular,geesh i go way back to the 18.8 modems,33.3 56k  etc etc.

    So here goes....
    It is not that we lost interest in mmorpg's it is not even a mmorpg thing it is the broad spectrum of gaming in general.I haven't lost interest in the hobby/past time,it is more of a case of seeing more and learning more and understanding that devs are often just trying to sell us crap.It worked a long time ago,it still works if your rather new or don't really pay much attention to game design.

    To put it in easier terms,i simply want a AAA product and now understand what it takes to make one.IDC what a streamer or media site tells me, i know exactly what i am looking for and looking at and the very large majority of games are total rubbish,they are selling us a half assed effort.

    SO it really doesn't matter what genre ,what the LORE is,the developer,i hold no grudges at all,if ANY developer can produce me a AAA game or at least a very good core game to expand from then i am playing that game  and giving it some props for what it does well.

    People often scoff at perhaps my ratings or others ratings,i will tell you right now,there are a lot of games that do NOTHING well,so if i say a game is 2/10,i really mean it because nothing is done well but can often mislead consumers because they see some nice looking characters and see a couple ideas they really like in gaming,perhaps it is as simple as pvp or dual wielding,whatever the case,it takes more than a few personal ideas to make a AAA game.

    Do i think Pantheon will be AAA,i think it is very highly unlikely,it might be more in line with EQ1,some good core ideas but nothing taken to a new level or improved,time will tell,we will see soon enough.


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,238
    The OP assumes that ONLY former EQ players would be interested Pantheon ... why ?

    Also the OP assumes that the teenagers and twentysomethings that played EQ have aged 40-50 years in the past 20 years.

    Also the OP assumes those who play EQ would move over to Pantheon ... why ? They're happy at EQ, are they not ?

    How much of a success Pantheon will be ... well, we'll see. Vanguard sold half a million copies. If it had delivered the quality, there is little doubt in my mind it would have had won a multimillion userbase.

    Anyway for me as a gamer the number of players in a game is merely an aside. The critical question is if I like to play that game myself. If it was otherwise, obviously I wouldnt have played Vanguard.

    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • UtinniUtinni Member RarePosts: 893
    The OP assumes that ONLY former EQ players would be interested Pantheon ... why ?

    Also the OP assumes that the teenagers and twentysomethings that played EQ have aged 40-50 years in the past 20 years.



    Can confirm. Was 12 when EQ launched, and 55 now.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,555
    edited August 5
    Utinni said:
    The OP assumes that ONLY former EQ players would be interested Pantheon ... why ?

    Also the OP assumes that the teenagers and twentysomethings that played EQ have aged 40-50 years in the past 20 years.



    Can confirm. Was 12 when EQ launched, and 55 now.
    Can confirm, was 41 when EQ1 launched, and 12 now.

    ;)
    Hawkaya399

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 436
    edited August 19
    TLDR warning.

    They OP is at least right on the topic of groups and non-niche players. It's true, it'll be hard for Pantheon to survive on the niche players. Most of the people who'll populate Pantheon will probably show up in the first month or two. Most of them will be the niche players, or they think they're niche. AFter that, it's probably downhill, unless it anticipates this dropoff.

    So what will happen if it stays old school? It'll have a mildly optimistic start, but rocky first month, with several thousand maybes and active players. After that I see the population plumeting, mostly because players aren't prepared for old school gropuing. Most oif them quit playing the first day or two, once they realize it's not what they expected. Tehy're too used to matchmaking, or didn't anticipate the difficulties of old school grouping. In 1999, they had time and different expectations, but now it isn't working. They thought they could get it to work. Most of them made the mistake of never playing on project 1999, so they never really understood if they'd enjoy Pantheon.

    So how to prevent the plummeting population and predictable fallout? The OP gives the answer. Some kind of matchmaking service that crosses servers and allows groups to form instantly, or near instantly, allowing groups to summon new members wherever they might be. This will resolve the biggest problem with a MMORPG strongly group-dependent: difficulty of organizing and maintaining a group during the entire gaming session. It will turn off some of hte niche players, but I don't think it'd be worse than not doing it, and more likely, ultimately a population boost.

    Based on what I've seen in interviews with Pantheon devs, I think they've been long aware of this. At least for me, it was always clear they have made some preparations in this regard. This is why I"ve always stated I will play it regardless of which path it takes. Honestly, I expect it to dumb itself down, or otherwise mainstream itself over time. So I go into it with that expectation. I won't leave just because I see it. I believe Pantehon deserves support because of its SPIRIT of intention. If we support it, we show there's somethinb behind all this. That's how the free market is supposed to work. And sometimes you have to support something, even if the outlook is dire, or circumstances aren't ideal, and that's because you believe in it.

    And if all else fails, there's project 1999 and some other places. Lets be honest, there're a LOT of old school emulated MMO/MMORPGs. There're also several steam/non-steam MMO/MMORPGs with similar-enough mechanics.

    I think some of us prefer the old school grouping, where groups form more organically, by communication, and members must travel to the grouping spot, or be led there somehow, and of course ther'es no way to do it across servers. This establishes a very local feel to everything. When you group, you tend to know hte people you're grouping with since they tend to be nearby. And because commucation is so important, it's veyr social. Ther's a far stronger expectation and obligation to the group, since you're not as easily replaceable. If you leave the group, you're more likely to consider the consequences for the others. Everything has more weight. This in turn increases the strain, but it may also increase the bonding, and sense of place.

    I recently played project 1999, and I can say the old school grouping is still viable for me. However, I think the success of Pantheon isn't going to rely on people like me, we're just too few, so  conversely, it'll rely on the mainstrema players, and the ones who're not prepared for this style of gropuing, and who'll want some kind of matchmaking service, or dungeon finder, or something along those lines.



    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
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