6 player groups

delete5230

In a recent interview with Brad, he talks about 6 man group and co-op content. 

I definitely find this both "intimidating and exciting" at the same time.

 

When I think about Pantheon, I'll be honest, the first thing that comes to mind is, will I be able to achieve this. I'm great at finding people, but without seeing the social system myself first hand, I'm apprehensive, it's unknown territory for this game. 

Very intimidating because it's the EXTREME MAJOR FEATURE, finding 6 people all the time. However I'm plagued with an extreme personality, plan for the worst hope for the best.  I also feel it's my sole job to fix things…. The good news is I usually do, probably out of fear.   

More good news……Nothing is ever as bad as I imagine. 

 

To feed my extreme personality to overcome this obstacle by making friends fast but play the game slow.  Friends will come and go depending on the leveling speed ratio. 

Like all deep mmorpgs I'll solo the first six levels to get a full understanding of every drop down panel and abilities structure. Games like this usually come with low level mini co-op dungeons to understand group dynamics.  I plan on over abusing this feature, NOT for the content but group dynamics. 

By level six It will be all about people.  Most put this in the background, I put it first. 

"How can I help you" is my motto….. For this, it has to be unselfish.  Making the friend is priority above the prize.  Everyone seems to have this in reverse. 

 

Overcome the stigma,

This is another big one. People tend to think others don't want friends when in fact most everyone does. I've proved this true in every game:

When Vanguard was at it's lowest population I could generate a six man group instantly.  People within the group would ask HOW DID YOU DO THAT !..... Easy, everyone is yearning for friends

 

Knowing that is key ! 

This is how you win an mmoprg !

delete5230

Hate fast travel.... But without it groups of 6 will be a chore, however I guess their doing the zone replica thing like EQ2 is now. 

I forget how the flying mount thing worked in Vanguard, but it worked well from what I remember. Make flying hard so it can't be abused. I think it had a very limited timer so it will only get you to your destination.  

Note to self:
Play a class with teleportation.  Priority, get any skill or ability dealing with grouping. ... this will be popular. 

Xarko

Dear diary...

Kyleran

As a veteran of DAOCs eight mans I was underwhelmed by the confirmation, but wasn't surprised.

Still, six is better than the standard 4 or 5 we've often seen in recent years.

Assuming this game will follow a trinity model larger groups mean fewer players must play as tanks or healers so it should be easier to fill groups.

Six person groups is still limiting in terms of having available slots for hybrid classes or those not particularly useful in groups.

In DAOC most groups always made space for a stealther, hybrid, or solo friendly class as eventually we would all be there leveling up similar alts one day.

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

As a veteran of DAOCs eight mans I was underwhelmed by the confirmation, but wasn't surprised.

Still, six is better than the standard 4 or 5 we've often seen in recent years.

Assuming this game will follow a trinity model larger groups mean fewer players must play as tanks or healers so it should be easier to fill groups.

Six person groups is still limiting in terms of having available slots for hybrid classes or those not particularly useful in groups.

In DAOC most groups always made space for a stealther, hybrid, or solo friendly class as eventually we would all be there leveling up similar alts one day.

DAOC also let you “leech” xp outside the group.  If we had 9 or 10 we would put a DPS outside and they could generally get decent XP as well.

Theocritus

6 is no surprise that is what Brad had in EQ...I don't remember what Vanguard had for group size but I think it was about 6 also. You need a fairly good size population for grouping to work well....Even wow had to use cross server for dungeons later on as everyonbe gets spread out.

Panther2103

I love larger groups. I liked L2's grouping system, running around in (I can't remember the exact number as i haven't grouped in L2 in a while) 7 or 8 person groups killing raid bosses was super fun. 

ronanx

Seems like this game is mainly about dungeons. what's the point of the big world if all the main content is in some dark whole in the ground.

Kyleran

Panther2103 said:

I love larger groups. I liked L2's grouping system, running around in (I can't remember the exact number as i haven't grouped in L2 in a while) 7 or 8 person groups killing raid bosses was super fun. 

I think L2 might have been 9.

Geeky

ronanx said:

Seems like this game is mainly about dungeons. what's the point of the big world if all the main content is in some dark whole in the ground.

HOLE

kitarad

City of Heroes was 8.

Sovrath

Kyleran said:

Panther2103 said:

I love larger groups. I liked L2's grouping system, running around in (I can't remember the exact number as i haven't grouped in L2 in a while) 7 or 8 person groups killing raid bosses was super fun. 

I think L2 might have been 9.

I do remember Lineage 2 having a large group size. 

kitarad

Sovrath said:

Kyleran said:

Panther2103 said:

I love larger groups. I liked L2's grouping system, running around in (I can't remember the exact number as i haven't grouped in L2 in a while) 7 or 8 person groups killing raid bosses was super fun. 

I think L2 might have been 9.

I do remember Lineage 2 having a large group size. 

The good thing about large groups is that the DPS classes don't get left out. Since the percentage of DPS is always high it helps with larger groups.

Panther2103

Kyleran said:

Panther2103 said:

I love larger groups. I liked L2's grouping system, running around in (I can't remember the exact number as i haven't grouped in L2 in a while) 7 or 8 person groups killing raid bosses was super fun. 

I think L2 might have been 9.

Yeah I tried to look it up, but I saw 12 person groups in the modern client, so I can't tell if that's a multi group party or what.

DafAtRandom

delete5230 said:

In a recent interview with Brad, he talks about 6 man group and co-op content. 

I definitely find this both "intimidating and exciting" at the same time.

 

When I think about Pantheon, I'll be honest, the first thing that comes to mind is, will I be able to achieve this. I'm great at finding people, but without seeing the social system myself first hand, I'm apprehensive, it's unknown territory for this game. 

Very intimidating because it's the EXTREME MAJOR FEATURE, finding 6 people all the time. However I'm plagued with an extreme personality, plan for the worst hope for the best.  I also feel it's my sole job to fix things…. The good news is I usually do, probably out of fear.   

More good news……Nothing is ever as bad as I imagine. 

 

To feed my extreme personality to overcome this obstacle by making friends fast but play the game slow.  Friends will come and go depending on the leveling speed ratio. 

Like all deep mmorpgs I'll solo the first six levels to get a full understanding of every drop down panel and abilities structure. Games like this usually come with low level mini co-op dungeons to understand group dynamics.  I plan on over abusing this feature, NOT for the content but group dynamics. 

By level six It will be all about people.  Most put this in the background, I put it first. 

"How can I help you" is my motto….. For this, it has to be unselfish.  Making the friend is priority above the prize.  Everyone seems to have this in reverse. 

 

Overcome the stigma,

This is another big one. People tend to think others don't want friends when in fact most everyone does. I've proved this true in every game:

When Vanguard was at it's lowest population I could generate a six man group instantly.  People within the group would ask HOW DID YOU DO THAT !..... Easy, everyone is yearning for friends

 

Knowing that is key ! 

This is how you win an mmoprg !

It seems pretty obvious to me that the release of this game is extremely stress inducing for you.  You may want to invest your leisure time into something a bit more tame, like gardening or watching people watch paint dry or something.

Amathe

Torval said:

 I quit because the sewer grind for rats was too much for me.

True story. In Everquest I played a ranger. A guildmate also played a ranger, though he was higher level than me. He boasted to me ... BOASTED ... that he could solo rats in Plane of Justice. And that's when I couldn't deny the truth anymore. I picked the wrong class. 

Mendel

Dire charm on one of those PoJ rats worked just fine.  I absolutely *hated* charming.  My enchanter had the worst luck with charm breaking.  A GoD group tried to have me charm things to do one of the runs there.  No good.  Charm broke 7 times, and I died every time before anyone could react.  I got to the point where I wouldn't charm anything except Dire Charm.  (It also made the PoJ trials quite easy).

Rangers had it tough.  An enchanter that didn't charm was maybe a step below.  Things were tough all over.

Mendel

More on topic.  The 6-player group is more evidence that Brad isn't thinking beyond his prior designs.  Maybe he's just comfortable doing the exact same things without apparent consideration of other mechanisms.

Six in a group is fine by me, as long as he doesn't have classes that essentially are one per group.  What was a second enchanter to do in a regular grind group?  Or a second cleric?  Those are the kind of pattern-based issues that Brad seems incapable of or unwilling to address.

Vorthanion

The smaller the group numbers, the less diverse your groups get to be.  With 8, you can be more creative in your group's class composition.  I'm disappointed, but not surprised.  I loved the 8 man grouping in City of Heroes, it allowed for so much more diversity in group composition. It feels as if he is trying not to include anything from Vanguard and is essentially doing a carbon copy of EQ and I don't find that thrilling or comforting.

Utinni

The more people you require to fill a group the more likely people will be boxing. I know VR said the game would be complex enough that boxing would be difficult but I think they overestimate how experienced most EQ, SWG, AO, Shadowbane, DAoC players are at boxing. If it's a slow paced, camp based, tank/heal/support/dps game with 6 players boxing will be extremely common. I'll probably box an extra character from the start. Hoping other people log on isn't content to me.

Mylan12

Mendel said:

More on topic.  The 6-player group is more evidence that Brad isn't thinking beyond his prior designs.  Maybe he's just comfortable doing the exact same things without apparent consideration of other mechanisms.

Six in a group is fine by me, as long as he doesn't have classes that essentially are one per group.  What was a second enchanter to do in a regular grind group?  Or a second cleric?  Those are the kind of pattern-based issues that Brad seems incapable of or unwilling to address.

My static group in early EQ was two bards, a monk, a paladin, a chanter and a cleric. We had no trouble with any 6 man content or grinding exp.  I admit you did need a healer class but most of they rest you could make work as long as the people knew how to play their class whatever it was.
I don't expect this game to be much different.
Of course 8 man like I think DAoC had would be fine too but any larger than that is a mini raid group.

Adamantine

Its classic.

I would call it the goldilocks number of group sizes. For example:

1. One Tank, One Healer, Four Support

2. One Tank, Two Healers, Three Support

3. Two Tanks, Two Healers, Two Support

Scenario #1 was far too often the case in Vanguard. It wasnt fun for neither the tank nor the healer, at least if the situation became critical. Dont get me started on how awful this was on a Shaman, who for some reason had no deaggro skill.

Scenario #2 was a very solid setup in Vanguard. Healer aggro got well distributed, even if the situation became hairy. By the way, a Disciple or Blood Mage could still provide tons of dps. Healer classes just rocked hard in Vanguard.

Scenario #3 was rare, but also kind of lazy. Nothing much could happen anymore.

I think any game that offers less than six people clearly signals its not interested in offering depth and variance.

I'm mostly surprised because wasnt Pantheon about having FOUR archetypes ? I've forgotten which they've been though. Two of them have been tank and healer again, this much I remember. Anyway if you have four archetypes, maybe a bit larger groupsize of 7 or 8 might be the goldilocks point.