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Should social restraints be removed?

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  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,019
    Isn't this one of those, "Treat others how you want to be treated," situations?

    How often do you help randoms and heal them and stuff?

    If enough of you who want that stuff to happen start doing it yourselves it should spread, right?

    If this current "anomie" attitude has spread, then so can the other apparently, because these games used to be a lot more social.

    If you like doing that stuff then keep doing it, and feel good about it. 

    Gut Out!
    KyleranTorvalAlBQuirky

    What, me worry?

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,561
    When the genre fully committed to the solo experience, the community was no longer needed.
    KyleranAmatheNorseGodAlBQuirkySteelhelm
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,815
    Iselin said:
    I think some of you guys underestimate the influence on in-game socializing that the time in which these games were and are played has.

    For many people MMOs 20 or even 15 years ago were the majority of their on-line socializing time and we tended to play just one MMO at a time.

    It's a whole different thing now with people playing several online games at once, multi game guilds and constant on-line presence with social apps.

    In other words the relative importance to any given player of socializing in a specific MMO today is tiny compared to what it once was.

    I have very serious doubts that any upcoming game regardless of how retro or draconian their mechanics to encourage or force socializing are, will change how players treat socializing in those games in 2019.

    That's not to say that MMOs don't need a heaping dose of community-focused play possibilities instead of just catering to solo everything - they certainly need that. But you do that with fresh new ideas and not to try to re-create the social atmosphere that existed in them 15 years ago. Those days just ain't coming back.
    It's not so much about socializing it's we just have no effect on each other.  My bad choice or luck can't effect the person randomly next to me.  You can even positively effect other players unless you are grouped. 

    I loved the chaos and unpredictability of the old games.  Even the NPCs were unpredictable at time because of.vastly different skills of NPCs.  Where now just about all NPCs are the same minus models and power color.  
    As much as any individual loved that aspect of older games, there's no concrete sign that this is going to come back in force.  People have moved on.  Society rarely goes backwards.  If you loved using a buggy whip, you can still do it.  Just expect to go out of your way to do so.



    KyleranTorval

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,019
    Mendel said:
    flying dragon kick
    As much as any individual loved that aspect of older games, there's no concrete sign that this is going to come back in force.  People have moved on.  Society rarely goes backwards.  If you loved using a buggy whip, you can still do it.  Just expect to go out of your way to do so.




    Really? It seems like most things coming out today are rehashes of yesterday. Maybe it was always that way, but I was never old enough to recognize it. Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,098
    Gutlard said:
    Mendel said:
    flying dragon kick
    As much as any individual loved that aspect of older games, there's no concrete sign that this is going to come back in force.  People have moved on.  Society rarely goes backwards.  If you loved using a buggy whip, you can still do it.  Just expect to go out of your way to do so.




    Really? It seems like most things coming out today are rehashes of yesterday. Maybe it was always that way, but I was never old enough to recognize it. Gut Out!
    Yeah just saw trailers for Top Gun 2 and It chapter 2.  Lion King, Toy Story, Chucky, Spiderman, Annabelle are all remakes or sequels or both.
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,815
    Gutlard said:
    Mendel said:
    flying dragon kick
    As much as any individual loved that aspect of older games, there's no concrete sign that this is going to come back in force.  People have moved on.  Society rarely goes backwards.  If you loved using a buggy whip, you can still do it.  Just expect to go out of your way to do so.




    Really? It seems like most things coming out today are rehashes of yesterday. Maybe it was always that way, but I was never old enough to recognize it. Gut Out!
    It just understates the current business philosophy of 'new is risky'.  Not changing isn't progress.  Did we really need a scene-by-scene, shot-by-shot remake of Psycho?  Originality is expensive in both games and movies.  Stagnation is cheaper.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,398
    Iselin said:


    In other words the relative importance to any given player of socializing in a specific MMO today is tiny compared to what it once was.

    I have very serious doubts that any upcoming game regardless of how retro or draconian their mechanics to encourage or force socializing are, will change how players treat socializing in those games in 2019.


    hmmm, maybe.

    True, players are jumping from one game too another but are they the same "type" of player who played the older games?

    Kyleran only plays one game at at time. I know that for me I would prefer one online game and "that's" that.

    Oh sure, I dabble in a several, Mostly Lord of the Rings Online, I play Elder Scrolls Online sparingly and only as a solo game. Ryzom here and there as I "dig the vibe" but I'm not social.

    And I hate teamspeakor or whatever is being used now. Which very much curtails my socializing.

    Maybe a truly retro game will attract the type of people who are themselves "truly retro."

    Or maybe not, maybe people have changed. I tend to think the "type" of games that are out there attract a "type" of player.
    AlBQuirky
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,109
    I think alot of you guys are wayyyyyy overthinking it. The reality is the novelty of "playing with others ONLINE" isn't quite as special or unique as it was in say 1999-2007 which is a big part of what made MMO's special  in the first place where as now every asshole in the world is connected via social media or what have you.


    I disagree, this line of reason is way overrated and over abused.

    The reason why people were more social in those days was because games had specific mechanics that promoted social interaction.
    To name a few:

    -Quests needed to be done in groups.
    -No LFD
    -Harsh death penalties
    -Slower Combat
    -Zones had a mix of low lvl and high lvl mobs
    -Little game restrictions (You could powerlevel newbies, train mobs on others, buff outside of groups and give high lvl buffs to newbies).
    -No AH ( or limited)
    -Crafting interdependency (you could not craft everything by yourself)

    There were assholes in those days too, but they all got tamed because Server reputation was really important.
    Since you needed the help of others to achieve anything, you better behave.

    Today almost anything can be achieved solo and with cross servers, server reputation is redundant, so people are free to behave like assholes with no consequences.
    AlBQuirkySteelhelm
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,939
    Amathe said:
    Further to @Kyleran's post, once in EQ (when I was just a noob) I used a Luclin port down to a zone where everything - and I mean everything - in sight could kill me easy. I died over and over and over. I was about to resign myself to my fate, when I texted a random person and said "For the love of God can you please help me get out of here?" He laughed and gladly cleared a path, allowing me to make my escape. 

    Nowadays that might still happen that way, but I would not count on it. There is just so much less emphasis on each player's role in the server community. 
    in Entropia, there is a group or society geared for helping noobs escape places they can't escape out of. Not only does it cost time, in entropia it costs real money. So good stuff like that happens and it depends on the game. In entropia, it can be frustrating to get stuck which happens often. Also, in Entropia there really is not P2W because your enemy is the "house" and not other players (99%) of the time. 

    Cryomatrix
    AlBQuirky
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,019
    I played Pong with my brothers when they were available, but mostly alone.

    I've been that way ever since...

    When the scheduling Gods align I play with friends, but mostly alone.

    Gut Out!
    TorvalAlBQuirky

    What, me worry?

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,815
    TEKK3N said:
    I think alot of you guys are wayyyyyy overthinking it. The reality is the novelty of "playing with others ONLINE" isn't quite as special or unique as it was in say 1999-2007 which is a big part of what made MMO's special  in the first place where as now every asshole in the world is connected via social media or what have you.


    I disagree, this line of reason is way overrated and over abused.

    The reason why people were more social in those days was because games had specific mechanics that promoted social interaction.
    To name a few:

    -Quests needed to be done in groups.
    -No LFD
    -Harsh death penalties
    -Slower Combat
    -Zones had a mix of low lvl and high lvl mobs
    -Little game restrictions (You could powerlevel newbies, train mobs on others, buff outside of groups and give high lvl buffs to newbies).
    -No AH ( or limited)
    -Crafting interdependency (you could not craft everything by yourself)

    There were assholes in those days too, but they all got tamed because Server reputation was really important.
    Since you needed the help of others to achieve anything, you better behave.

    Today almost anything can be achieved solo and with cross servers, server reputation is redundant, so people are free to behave like assholes with no consequences.
    Let me respond to this from an EQ1 perspective, both then (1999) and now (2019).
    • Quests done in groups.  It was never a requirement, then or now.  The quests that were difficult are still in the game, unchanged.  And those old quests are being soloed.
    • No LFG.  True.  Finding groups was a miserable task then, and is even worse now at levels less than near max level.
    • Harsh death penalties.  They're still there, but mitigated somewhat with availability of NPC/Mercenary rezzes.  You will lose a good bit, but is almost a choice to be punished by not using the available mechanics.
    • Slower combat.  Still the same.  Gear has improved over the ages, but older gear appropriate to the Kunark or Velious expansions still kill slowly solo.
    • Mix of levels in zones.  Still true, but mostly for older zones.  Zones in more recent expansions have far less deviation.
    • Few game restrictions.  Very true then, not so much now.  The buffs are level restrictive to prevent overpowered new characters from rolling on older content.  Training mobs has pretty much always been against the 'Play Nice Guidelines' since they were introduced.  Power-leveling is still a big thing, just a bit more restrictive.
    • No AH.  The Bazaar has been around since the Luclin expansion (4th).  It is more a mechanism of convenience than the East Commons tunnel.  There's still quite a bit of selling outside of an AH, via the global chat channel and on progression servers.
    • Crafting interdependence was never a thing.  There was never a market for intermediate combines.  Every crafter always did everything themselves.  DIY rules in-game crafting, always did.  There are even achievements for max skill in all available crafts (everything but poison, tinkering and potion-making, which are all class restricted).
    So, given that EQ1provides most of the 'old school' systems and mechanics, why isn't that game much more popular?  Most of the population is at or near max level.  On a good day, it is remarkable to find more than 10 characters in any given -5 to +5 levels of your character.  Even then, there's a good chance than most of them are in Trader or Buyer mode in the Bazaar.  EQ1 is basically a barren wasteland, with only the most recent (or the next most recent) expansion seeing any significant traffic.

    What are you expecting from a new game, like Pantheon, that EQ1 doesn't provide already?  Modern graphics?  Most people on this site would say 'gameplay over graphics', if given a choice.  Why do you think people are going to come out of the woodwork and act like it is 1999 all over again?  All that Pantheon is likely to provide is new lore and fewer conveniences.  If one has self discipline, they can simply not use the modern features (like rezzes in the guild lobby, portal stones, the Bazaar, or the entire mercenary system).

    EQ1 is already delivering the elements you seem to want from Pantheon or other new games.  It's here now, not in 2-5 years.  So, why aren't you playing?



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,821
    edited July 2019
    Arterius said:
    Utinni said:
    None of this is true in the games I play. Stop playing poopbutt games.
    Out of curiosity what MMO's do you play? I play FFXIV, Eso, and WoW at the moment and rarely do I ever get someone to heal me or buff me when I am not in a group. Very rarely do I ever get rescued from a mob even if I am about to die or getting my butt kicked. In FFXIV and ESO I rarely see a group of players playing together. Most people play solo until a dungeon. 
    I've had it happen a bunch on FFXIV, and I've jumped in on fights to save someone's bacon too. Just a few days ago I was fighting a FATE boss, and the timer was getting dangerously low... and just as I thought "Yep, this is a fail..." another adventurer showed up, and we finished it with a few seconds to spare!

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,139
    Arterius said:
    Utinni said:
    None of this is true in the games I play. Stop playing poopbutt games.
    Out of curiosity what MMO's do you play? I play FFXIV, Eso, and WoW at the moment and rarely do I ever get someone to heal me or buff me when I am not in a group. Very rarely do I ever get rescued from a mob even if I am about to die or getting my butt kicked. In FFXIV and ESO I rarely see a group of players playing together. Most people play solo until a dungeon. 
    I've had it happen a bunch on FFXIV, and I've jumped in on fights to save someone's bacon too. Just a few days ago I was fighting a FATE boss, and the timer was getting dangerously low... and just as I thought "Yep, this is a fail..." another adventurer showed up, and we finished it with a few seconds to spare!
    Yeah right, you think he was there to help you when the reality is he just wanted a share of your kill.

    Its mine, all mine.....bwa ha ha.....mine!

    ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,344
    I find it more annoyance to be honest. 

    So I am soloing and find a quest which can't be soloed.  Next I know, I am spending 20 minutes to an hour to finding people so I can do a group quest that can be finished in a couple of minutes.

    I don't have problem with forced grouping.  But if there are forced grouping, make sure the game have enough population that group can be formed quickly.  

    Or at least make sure the group content is long enough so it is worth me spending time finding a group.


  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,109
    edited July 2019
    Mendel said:
    TEKK3N said:
    I think alot of you guys are wayyyyyy overthinking it. The reality is the novelty of "playing with others ONLINE" isn't quite as special or unique as it was in say 1999-2007 which is a big part of what made MMO's special  in the first place where as now every asshole in the world is connected via social media or what have you.


    I disagree, this line of reason is way overrated and over abused.

    The reason why people were more social in those days was because games had specific mechanics that promoted social interaction.
    To name a few:

    -Quests needed to be done in groups.
    -No LFD
    -Harsh death penalties
    -Slower Combat
    -Zones had a mix of low lvl and high lvl mobs
    -Little game restrictions (You could powerlevel newbies, train mobs on others, buff outside of groups and give high lvl buffs to newbies).
    -No AH ( or limited)
    -Crafting interdependency (you could not craft everything by yourself)

    There were assholes in those days too, but they all got tamed because Server reputation was really important.
    Since you needed the help of others to achieve anything, you better behave.

    Today almost anything can be achieved solo and with cross servers, server reputation is redundant, so people are free to behave like assholes with no consequences.

    EQ1 is already delivering the elements you seem to want from Pantheon or other new games.  It's here now, not in 2-5 years.  So, why aren't you playing?




    EQ1 is not delivering what I am looking for at all.
    EQ 1999 and EQ 2019 are 2 different beast, even though compared to WOW 2004 and WOW 2019 it retained some of the original core features, it is not the same game.

    Asking why I am not playing a game made in 1999 is a bit silly.
    Ancient graphics, poor animations, clunky UI, outdated Boss mechanics.

    I love Baldurs Gate, but I am not playing it in 2019.
    I prefer playing modern games inspired by it, like Divinity or Pathfinder the Kingmaker.
    Call me crazy....

    But I am going to play WOW Classic because it still has a modern feel even though it doesn’t have all the old school features the original EQ had.

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 1,039
    I think MMORPG have so much safe space lack of competition that it's sterile and boring.  Doesn't have to be just trolling and killing. 

    We play online with 1000s and literally have no effect on the person next to you good or bad.  I think that's a sad thing. 

    I can't remember the last time I healed or been healed by a stranger.  Rescued from PvE or even PvP encounter.  Got a buff that made a difference from a random. Traded an item with someone. Those were the things that made MMORPG cool to me.  The random chaos bring people into the equation.

    All focus is on the game/combat side of things. It makes every game feel formulated because no matter how you change combat you are still doing the same things.  
    If you don't mind playing something a bit older and in the superhero genre, City of Heroes provides an environment similar to what you describe.

    You get random buffs from players frequently, and a lot of times when you get near a popular trainer NPC good luck trying to see them through the buff spam visuals.

    I have been randomly assisted in times of trouble many times, and have done the same if I see someone needing help.

    The community is generally quite civil and welcoming. Pick-up groups are common, and organically shift in make-up over time as people come and go, with missions provided by police band radios or newspapers for heroes and villains respectively.

    The game is designed so that groups aren't locked in to particular compositions, where in terms of support buffing and debuffing rule the day, with healing taking on a fairly minor role compared to many MMORPGs. Due to this most focus on collective fun rather than individual performance, and on the players themselves rather than the numbers their characters can produce.

    If that sounds like something that would work for you, drop on by Homecoming, where new do-gooders and ne'er-do-wells are always welcome in Paragon City or the Rogue Isles.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,338
    Yes , ive said it when games like GW2 and ESO launched , some of there systems have/are detrimental to a true MMORPG experience have set the genre back ....

      They just dont feel like an MMO for much of the gameplay , but then again that is exactly the demographic that was targeted by ArenaNet and Zenimax , the casual/solo player ..

       And they succeeded , and i dont blame them they went for the money which is smart , altho ESO is having much better results as GW2 is having a Ran its Course feel to it over the past year plus , and may find itself in jepordy if they are at the bottom of NCSFS stable again this year come Dec
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,098
    AAAMEOW said:
    I find it more annoyance to be honest. 

    So I am soloing and find a quest which can't be soloed.  Next I know, I am spending 20 minutes to an hour to finding people so I can do a group quest that can be finished in a couple of minutes.

    I don't have problem with forced grouping.  But if there are forced grouping, make sure the game have enough population that group can be formed quickly.  

    Or at least make sure the group content is long enough so it is worth me spending time finding a group.


    Post isn't about forced grouping though. 
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 1,039
    AAAMEOW said:


    I don't have problem with forced grouping.  But if there are forced grouping, make sure the game have enough population that group can be formed quickly.
    How is the needed population to be assured? While group content can be forced, sufficient population for which the content is relevant can not.
  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 2,219
    I get what OP is saying. I've played every mmorpg solo, all the way back in UO and EQ, even. But I do miss being able to hop on my MP in Anarchy online when I was in a good mood and play buffbot to a stream of players, for example.


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,495
    edited July 2019
    I always find replies to stuff like this amazing then you ask what games they play and it's always those safe solo friendly ones. These people have no clue about what MMO's were like pre Wow.
    KyleranTorvalScorchienAlBQuirkySteelhelm
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,098
    I think alot of you guys are wayyyyyy overthinking it. The reality is the novelty of "playing with others ONLINE" isn't quite as special or unique as it was in say 1999-2007 which is a big part of what made MMO's special  in the first place where as now every asshole in the world is connected via social media or what have you.


    Again, it's not about talking remaking friends.  It is about human spontaneity coming from being able to interact and effect people.  Sometimes it sucks at the time but it was the biggest draw for me.
    The reason you had human spontaneity in these games is because it was new, fresh, fun, exciting, we take it for granted as old farts  but today's generation views the internet and  online always connected plugged in feel as just part of life, its like breathing air , you don;t think before you take a breath you just breathe, they know nothing else .  

    I'm having such a hard time formulating my thoughts on this into words but what I'm trying to say is,  this was a  capsule in time where we interacted with other human beings but we weren't really there it was very surreal & NEW experience hence the deep connections that were made in MMO's and the extra mile you went to help and interact with others which made it all so much more immersive and special. This can never  be duplicated or recreated in MMO's because the novelty of being online with thousands of others in a virtual RPG setting just doesnt have the same pizzazz it once did .

      Fortnite & BR's in general is this generations MMO's. Everything about the style, the pace, the gameplay sums them up perfectly and makes perfect sense.
    You are looking at with the view it was sociological change.  

    I am a firm believer it is a engineered change.  Where human behaviors were coded out of the genre to prevent all method of grief and exploitation. I don't think the genre being formulated has anything to do with social media.  Removing healing classes and making combat easy mode and the other choice have little to do with social media.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 1,039
    Hariken said:
    I always find replies to stuff like this amazing then you ask what games they play and it's always those safe solo friendly ones. These people have no clue about what MMO's were like pre Wow.
    The initial players of WoW knew exactly what MMORPGs were like before. Yet it is WoW that catapulted to an unprecedented level of success rather than it's predecessors.

    It seems that WoW was much more in tune with what the masses wanted. The others were not cast aside of of ignorance, but out of finally having an option suited to their taste.
  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,854
    The issue is that many elements of MMORPGs were sacrificed for the sake of convenience.

    I think the most recent example of this was during the release of the Classic WoW beta. Because the game poses an actual challenge to players compared to retail WoW, you'd see a lot more players grouping up or interacting with each other in the world. Players would buff each other up, save a player in need, etc.

    When you pit players against challenging content, players will naturally seek out other players, and work together for their own mutual benefit, while also developing relationships along the way that can last them for months or even years. Empathy is indirectly encouraged, because players can relate more easily with other struggling players.

    When you simplify various aspects of the game however, then you remove the need for players to interact with each others, because they can do most everything on their own at little to no risk. There's no need to help other players, and the games becomes more focused on the individual player. It also breeds more toxic and entitled attitudes when things suddenly don't go the players ways, because they've grown used to having everything practically handed out to them.

    To be fair, some of gameplay elements that were sacrificed "made sense". Spamming chat for 1 hour to find other players to do a dungeon with you, only to wait 45 minutes for all the players to assemble at the dungeon door, and then running the dungeon for another 30-45 minutes doesn't really make great content. It does encourage players to make friends to make the process of grouping easier, but the task is no less time consuming. PUGs drastically reduced the time needed and making dungeons more accessible, but at the cost of removing all needs for social interactions.


    In this day and age, if an MMO wants to encourage social interaction, it needs to find the difficult middle ground: Make the game sufficiently challenging so that soloing is dangerous, and give tools to players to help them find other players for help, without doing all the work for them. What form would that take? Truth be told, I'm not really sure. I can't help but imagining a large tavern being involved somehow, but that might just be me romanticizing RPGs.
    Nibiru1704
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,157
    edited July 2019
    The process has been threefold.

    1) Players have changed.

    2) Society has changed.

    3) "Success" in the MMO genre has changed.

    Players
    Players have more demands for their free time. Not families and jobs, for those have always existed. It is the more numerous activities available now wanting our free time.

    Also, players have come to despise failures of any kind. More and more want to be the game's hero instead of the puppetmaster of said hero. RNG has been demonized. Almost all games have been sanitized to "safe zones." Sure, there is the rare "hard game" and then it's hailed and praised as such, but rarely copied. Remember Dark Souls' praise for being so "hard?" Hard used o be the norm.

    Society
    Fast Internet is now second nature. Many Americans are clamoring for making access a utility like electricity and gas. Children are brought up with the Internet as a part of them now. I used to be amazed at playing a game with players from Japan, Denmark, Australia, and Brazil. Now, that's expected.

    Wealth has become more prominent, too. Look at the games that sell early access for millions, sell unfinished games (to be patched later on), and the success of Kickstarter and the like. We gamers have become independently wealthy, it seems. "We" (the Royal we) throw money at anything and everything. In HUGE amounts.

    Success
    MMOs used to measure success by sub million numbers and trying to keep players playing (and paying) for years. Now the numbers are set to multiple millions and many don't even try to keep the majority of players playing, but rather focus on milking them for the short time they'll be playing.

    Then Whales were discovered frequenting cash shops. No limit to spending became the mantra. Games now catered to the few with money instead of the masses that actually enjoyed playing the games. MMOs were chopped up and sold piecemeal, but labeled "free." Subscriptions (aka one cost, the same for every player) were demonized.

    Now, MMOs shut down or go into "maintenance mode" with sub millions of players. Those same numbers that indicated success a decade and a half ago.

    Summation
    The majority of players today don't want the removal of social restraints. They seek safe games where they (not their avatar) never fail and can jump in and out, in time to watch their next Netflix binge. They seek cash shop items that help them NOT play the games. They want to "beat the MMO" (an attitude not often held in the "old ones") and move onto their next conquest. Many cannot even imagine playing the same game for years on end. They want no commitments and realize they will be long gone before they make any "in game friends."

    Lots of "blame" to go around for the state of MMOs today. Yet business-wise, they're more successful than ever before.
    JeffSpicoliMendel

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


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