Finally, the money and new processors (Ry zen build?)

Aethaeryn

So I have the money and there is a lot of hype around the new Ryzen processors.

I am looking at a 3600 or 3600x (these give me that i5 feeling from whenever they launced (that is how old my PC is). . actually the case still has an Athlon X2 sticker on it.

USES:  Mostly gaming, examples: Warhammer Total War, Kingdom Come Deliverance, X series (not 4 yet)  quite a mix
-I do some video encoding ocassionally and some blender stuff for models (dabbling)

This processor seems like a decent step up from my i5 2500K (never over clocked. . stupid bios)

Sometimes I play games that tax the CPU while also trans-coding something while someone is streaming PLEX (server runs on my PC)


Current:  i5 2500k, 8 gig 1600 RAM, Nvidia 1060 6GB video

QUESTIONS


Motherboard

I am 90% sure I am looking at a 570 main board?  Does it mostly come down to features?    I was looking at the ASUS and MSI boards (no reason), for the price difference a little future proofing seems smart?)
- I want to get some fast SSD action going as well.  

Memory

I am currently running 1600. . I am looking at 3000 or 3200. . is there a speed that would run better due to native support etc?  I am a bit confused on this but looking for a good price / performance ratio

Wireless or anything else?

  I am so behind on info but trying to catch up.  Is wireless built in better than an adapter?
Is there anything else I should know about before I start putting parts together?

I am going to see what kind of sales are going on but ready to buy soon assuming the CPU is in stock.

Cleffy

There is no point in going with the 570 boards unless you want to feel special. They cost way too much for more pcie gen 4 lanes. The 470 boards should also have gen4 lanes good enough for 1 gpu.
Right now the 570 boards are positioned as premium items for special use cases where the 470 boards are more for the upper tier consumer. You will need to bios update any 470 board.

Aethaeryn

Cleffy said:

There is no point in going with the 570 boards unless you want to feel special. They cost way too much for more pcie gen 4 lanes. The 470 boards should also have gen4 lanes good enough for 1 gpu.
Right now the 570 boards are positioned as premium items for special use cases where the 470 boards are more for the upper tier consumer. You will need to bios update any 470 board.

Perfect.  That is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to know.

TheDarkrayne

Aethaeryn said:

Cleffy said:

There is no point in going with the 570 boards unless you want to feel special. They cost way too much for more pcie gen 4 lanes. The 470 boards should also have gen4 lanes good enough for 1 gpu.
Right now the 570 boards are positioned as premium items for special use cases where the 470 boards are more for the upper tier consumer. You will need to bios update any 470 board.

Perfect.  That is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to know.

Be aware that when Cleffy says you need to bios update, it means the 3rd gen Ryzen will not work in a x470 without the update.

So, you'll need another AMD CPU to update the bios before you can use the latest CPUs... or arrange for whoever you buy a x470 from to make sure it's updated for you which they would probably charge for.

Just getting a x570 might be the easier and cheaper option for you.

Connmacart

X470 does not have gen 4 pcie. Not that people will have much need for that. X570 though is more than just a premium board. Even entry level x570 boards are better than most of the x470 boards when it comes to making sure the power delivery system remains cool even under heavy load. 

What really matters is how much do you want to spend. 

Anyway, if you are planning on a 6 core 3600 x or non x than a b450 is more than enough. Most of the boards from MSI and Asus around the $100 mark should be fine. If you want more cores later on than you will need something beefier. X470 would be MSI Pro Carbon or from Asus the Rog Strix should be what you want to aim for. That or the really high end ones.

Stay away from Gigabyte for b450 and x470. With the exception of the x470 Aorus Gaming 7 Wifi. For x570 though Gigabyte seem to have the best boards on paper. No one has really tested x570 boards yet though. 

As for ram  3000 or 3200 is fine. Anything above that you pay way more for very little gain. 

Make sure you get a good PSU as well.

Major69er1

Be aware that when Cleffy says you need to bios update, it means the 3rd gen Ryzen will not work in a x470 without the update.

So, you'll need another AMD CPU to update the bios before you can use the latest CPUs... or arrange for whoever you buy a x470 from to make sure it's updated for you which they would probably charge for.

Just getting a x570 might be the easier and cheaper option for you.
Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/482408/finally-the-money-and-new-processors-ry-zen-build#fAzvJQjpQllMc8O9.99


Updating from 2700X like 6 updates on a gigabyte board from f3 to 40 and you wont be able to use your pc until you reinstall windows.

Major69er1

but is relatively easy to do

Ridelynn

Ryzen is definitely the way to go right now, unless your a 240+ Hz gamer.

I would get a x570 board if I were buying new. I would not spend ridiculous amounts of money on one though. Reasonable options do exist.

Right now x570 boards are running higher voltages, which are resulting in higher temps. I expect BIOS updates soon, but it’s easily fixed and isn’t the sort of thing that prevents you from being able to purchase and use today.

The real reason I recommend a 570 is not PCIe 4, it’s that x570 has much broader memory support. Do not worry about future proofing, don't pay for options you don't need right now. That's my advice on motherboards anyway. Almost everything can be added after the fact, and usually for a lot less expensive than it would be to have it built into the motherboard.

I don't see any reason to skip out on a NVMe drive right now for at least your main Windows boot drive, they cost slightly more than SATA3, but have higher benchmark speeds. Real world use - you probably won't notice much of a difference between a NVMe and SATA3... at least nothing like the difference between a SSD and HDD. But the difference in price is so small I don't see why you would not go NVMe in a new build. If you need a lot of bulk storage, a second HDD or additional SATA SSDs are a economical options.

I typically don’t worry about spending a ton on RAM - there is definitely a diminishing return when it comes to price vs speed (and amount of RAM for that matter). Any which way, once you do select a motherboard it should have a QVL list for supported RAM - it will tell you exactly what is supported. Anything not on the list will ~probably~ work, but not guaranteed. Ryzen 1 was very picky about it.

Any of the Zen2 models will be a very noticeable upgrade from your Sandy Bridge.

Is wireless better than wired? or a built in adapter?

I assume your talking about WiFi here - and the answer is no, it's not better, but it may be more convenient. It's also something that is easily (and cheaply) added externally if you want to add it after the fact. Is built-in wireless better than a adapter wireless? Well, it's probably better than a $5 single antenna mini-adapter, but definitely not better than a nice external multiarray adapter or bridge. You also can't upgrade internal WiFi to new standards typically.

Vrika

Ridelynn said:

Is wireless better than wired? or a built in adapter?

I assume your talking about WiFi here - and the answer is no, it's not better, but it may be more convenient. It's also something that is easily (and cheaply) added externally if you want to add it after the fact. Is built-in wireless better than a adapter wireless? Well, it's probably better than a $5 single antenna mini-adapter, but definitely not better than a nice external multiarray adapter or bridge. You also can't upgrade internal WiFi to new standards typically.

You can upgrade internal WiFi to new standards the same way you upgrade external WiFi: Buying a new external WiFi adapter.

Vrika

Aethaeryn said:

I am currently running 1600. . I am looking at 3000 or 3200. . is there a speed that would run better due to native support etc?  I am a bit confused on this but looking for a good price / performance ratio

Ryzen can benefit from having a fast RAM, but it doesn't benefit so much that really expensive RAMs would be worth their price.

So try to get a fast RAM, but look at price/speed. Paying 10-20% extra for faster RAM (compared to cheapest option) is often a good idea, but paying 50% more than cheapest option isn't worth it.

Aethaeryn

Ridelynn said:

Ryzen is definitely the way to go right now, unless your a 240+ Hz gamer.

I would get a x570 board if I were buying new. I would not spend ridiculous amounts of money on one though. Reasonable options do exist.

Right now x570 boards are running higher voltages, which are resulting in higher temps. I expect BIOS updates soon, but it’s easily fixed and isn’t the sort of thing that prevents you from being able to purchase and use today.

The real reason I recommend a 570 is not PCIe 4, it’s that x570 has much broader memory support. Do not worry about future proofing, don't pay for options you don't need right now. That's my advice on motherboards anyway. Almost everything can be added after the fact, and usually for a lot less expensive than it would be to have it built into the motherboard.

I don't see any reason to skip out on a NVMe drive right now for at least your main Windows boot drive, they cost slightly more than SATA3, but have higher benchmark speeds. Real world use - you probably won't notice much of a difference between a NVMe and SATA3... at least nothing like the difference between a SSD and HDD. But the difference in price is so small I don't see why you would not go NVMe in a new build. If you need a lot of bulk storage, a second HDD or additional SATA SSDs are a economical options.

I typically don’t worry about spending a ton on RAM - there is definitely a diminishing return when it comes to price vs speed (and amount of RAM for that matter). Any which way, once you do select a motherboard it should have a QVL list for supported RAM - it will tell you exactly what is supported. Anything not on the list will ~probably~ work, but not guaranteed. Ryzen 1 was very picky about it.

Any of the Zen2 models will be a very noticeable upgrade from your Sandy Bridge.

Is wireless better than wired? or a built in adapter?

I assume your talking about WiFi here - and the answer is no, it's not better, but it may be more convenient. It's also something that is easily (and cheaply) added externally if you want to add it after the fact. Is built-in wireless better than a adapter wireless? Well, it's probably better than a $5 single antenna mini-adapter, but definitely not better than a nice external multiarray adapter or bridge. You also can't upgrade internal WiFi to new standards typically.

Great info,  Yeah I have an external one already.  I like things to be separate for the reasons you mentioned.  Thanks for the ram info

Aethaeryn

Vrika said:

Ridelynn said:

Is wireless better than wired? or a built in adapter?

I assume your talking about WiFi here - and the answer is no, it's not better, but it may be more convenient. It's also something that is easily (and cheaply) added externally if you want to add it after the fact. Is built-in wireless better than a adapter wireless? Well, it's probably better than a $5 single antenna mini-adapter, but definitely not better than a nice external multiarray adapter or bridge. You also can't upgrade internal WiFi to new standards typically.

You can upgrade internal WiFi to new standards the same way you upgrade external WiFi: Buying a new external WiFi adapter.

Yes I considered going for AX but I already have a 3500 AC router and my external adapter is 1300, it does well enough.  We do a lot of streaming, some 4K in the house.

Asm0deus

For those wanting to use 450 and 470 boards be aware there has been some trouble with some boards getting the bios update to actually work...something about 16mb updates and not enough room on the bios or so

https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/

Asm0deus

Nice little video on motherboards. It a good video because he goes through the better motherboard purchases fro 450, 470 and 570 boards.  It also give you good idea and what really different about one chipset over the others.

Personally I will be most likely skipping this first batch of 570 boards.

Ozmodan

Just built a system via Microcenter with a Ryzen 3700x and an ASRock 570 motherboard and a Ryzen 5700 gpu.  With 16gb of 3200 memory, Coolmaster case, gold 650 power supply, 1TB pcie 3.0 SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda, came to a shade under $1300 out the door.

Runs everything great in 4k at mostly ultimate settings.  I received $100 for bundling everything.  Love the system and I get to stick it to Intel and Nvidia.  Oh, and the system is not noisey at all.

Vrika

Ozmodan said:

Just built a system via Microcenter with a Ryzen 3700x and an ASRock 570 motherboard and a Ryzen 5700 gpu.  With 16gb of 3200 memory, Coolmaster case, gold 650 power supply, 1TB pcie 3.0 SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda, came to a shade under $1300 out the door.

Runs everything great in 4k at mostly ultimate settings.  I received $100 for bundling everything.  Love the system and I get to stick it to Intel and Nvidia.  Oh, and the system is not noisey at all.

You were able to find a Radeon 5700 without that super-noisy blower cooler?

AmazingAvery

Vrika said:

Ozmodan said:

Just built a system via Microcenter with a Ryzen 3700x and an ASRock 570 motherboard and a Ryzen 5700 gpu.  With 16gb of 3200 memory, Coolmaster case, gold 650 power supply, 1TB pcie 3.0 SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda, came to a shade under $1300 out the door.

Runs everything great in 4k at mostly ultimate settings.  I received $100 for bundling everything.  Love the system and I get to stick it to Intel and Nvidia.  Oh, and the system is not noisey at all.

You were able to find a Radeon 5700 without that super-noisy blower cooler?

Everything (more or less) I've seen in advice is to wait for the partner boards to come to see if it improves as they run HOT and LOUD.




@4:52

Splattr

I think the answers in this thread highlight one of the biggest benefits of AMD over Intel right now - there is a ton of flexibility when it comes to building a system. I personally went with an X570 board just for the ease of use (no bios update needed, liberal RAM compatibility, good power delivery, etc), but that doesn't mean my way was the best way to go. 

As stated above you could go with an ~$100 B450 board and still get the same base performance out of the CPU as you would with a top of the line X570. I would even expect to be able to do some mild overclocking with the cheaper boards as well. Someone did say above that going with an older board would require flashing the bios with an older CPU. To avoid that you just need to make sure the board you are looking at has the Flashback feature which allows you to use a USB drive to flash the bios without a CPU installed. 

You just need to do the research (there are some good videos posted above, and more and more are hitting every day now) and decide how much you want to spend, what features are important to you and focus money on those areas while not skimping too much in other areas. 

Good luck!

Aethaeryn

DMKano said:

Cleffy said:

There is no point in going with the 570 boards unless you want to feel special. They cost way too much for more pcie gen 4 lanes. The 470 boards should also have gen4 lanes good enough for 1 gpu.
Right now the 570 boards are positioned as premium items for special use cases where the 470 boards are more for the upper tier consumer. You will need to bios update any 470 board.

Also pci4 doesnt work correctly with 5700 cards.
Many have to go into bios and disable pci4 and enable pci3 mode.

This will probably be fixed via driver updates but it is an issue currently 

Here is a video showing the issue:




My 2c - wait at least 6 months before buying - whenever new architectures release there are always issues that need time to fix


Early hardware adaptors usually have to suffer through a myriad of issues - don't be that guy

Always good advice.  @DMKano Are the problems things you can fix / deal with or are they more permanent.  I don't mind messing around with that stuff.  Or will I actually get something that is likely to work better in 6 months and be glad I waited?  I'll watch the video

Aethaeryn

Ozmodan said:

Just built a system via Microcenter with a Ryzen 3700x and an ASRock 570 motherboard and a Ryzen 5700 gpu.  With 16gb of 3200 memory, Coolmaster case, gold 650 power supply, 1TB pcie 3.0 SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda, came to a shade under $1300 out the door.

Runs everything great in 4k at mostly ultimate settings.  I received $100 for bundling everything.  Love the system and I get to stick it to Intel and Nvidia.  Oh, and the system is not noisey at all.

That's pretty good.  I did get a taste of 4K and I liked it.  I would rather go lower with higher settings though.  I remember my first PC  486DX2. . cost me $3000 CDN.   I think it had a 10 gig hard drive.  I was worried about the size of Ultima 7 so I went big!

Aethaeryn

Splattr said:

I think the answers in this thread highlight one of the biggest benefits of AMD over Intel right now - there is a ton of flexibility when it comes to building a system. I personally went with an X570 board just for the ease of use (no bios update needed, liberal RAM compatibility, good power delivery, etc), but that doesn't mean my way was the best way to go. 

As stated above you could go with an ~$100 B450 board and still get the same base performance out of the CPU as you would with a top of the line X570. I would even expect to be able to do some mild overclocking with the cheaper boards as well. Someone did say above that going with an older board would require flashing the bios with an older CPU. To avoid that you just need to make sure the board you are looking at has the Flashback feature which allows you to use a USB drive to flash the bios without a CPU installed. 

You just need to do the research (there are some good videos posted above, and more and more are hitting every day now) and decide how much you want to spend, what features are important to you and focus money on those areas while not skimping too much in other areas. 

Good luck!

Yeah I don't mind paying a bit more.  I doubt I could find a chip to update the bios. . could likely pick one up used though. . hmm.  Thanks all. . great support.

Vrika

Aethaeryn said:

Ozmodan said:

Just built a system via Microcenter with a Ryzen 3700x and an ASRock 570 motherboard and a Ryzen 5700 gpu.  With 16gb of 3200 memory, Coolmaster case, gold 650 power supply, 1TB pcie 3.0 SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda, came to a shade under $1300 out the door.

Runs everything great in 4k at mostly ultimate settings.  I received $100 for bundling everything.  Love the system and I get to stick it to Intel and Nvidia.  Oh, and the system is not noisey at all.

That's pretty good.  I did get a taste of 4K and I liked it.  I would rather go lower with higher settings though.  I remember my first PC  486DX2. . cost me $3000 CDN.   I think it had a 10 gig hard drive.  I was worried about the size of Ultima 7 so I went big!

10 gigs sounds really big for 486DX2.

Doing a bit googling, Ultima VII part 1 and 2 together required only 0.05 gig.

Ozmodan

AmazingAvery said:

Vrika said:

Ozmodan said:

Just built a system via Microcenter with a Ryzen 3700x and an ASRock 570 motherboard and a Ryzen 5700 gpu.  With 16gb of 3200 memory, Coolmaster case, gold 650 power supply, 1TB pcie 3.0 SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda, came to a shade under $1300 out the door.

Runs everything great in 4k at mostly ultimate settings.  I received $100 for bundling everything.  Love the system and I get to stick it to Intel and Nvidia.  Oh, and the system is not noisey at all.

You were able to find a Radeon 5700 without that super-noisy blower cooler?

Everything (more or less) I've seen in advice is to wait for the partner boards to come to see if it improves as they run HOT and LOUD.




@4:52

Not so! and my motherboard does not run hot and has no fans on the motherboard.  Just because some idiot on the internet says something does not make it so and the 5700 is not noisey, I have 5 fans in the case and it is produces no more noise than my old system with the Nvidia 960 in it.!

Quizzical

The reference Navi cards won't be very hot or noisy if you don't push them very hard.  Of course, that's also true of just about every other video card.  But depending on what games you play and at what settings, it could be the reason why your personal card is cool and quiet.

Vrika

Based on reviews 5700 reference cards produce a lot more noise under load than NVidia's reference cards, and as long as there aren't any non-reference coolers available that's a huge difference:

BeansnBread

Vrika said:

Based on reviews 5700 reference cards produce a lot more noise under load than NVidia's reference cards, and as long as there aren't any non-reference coolers available that's a huge difference:

What is the actual noise difference between 34 (the absolute quietest) and 46 (second loudest)? I'm reading that it ranges from whisper to quiet office. Which is a difference, but it doesn't seem like a huge difference.

Also, I'm still very skeptical of Radeon cards at this point.