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P2W Items List : Debate

Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member RarePosts: 956
Name one item from any game that you feel is P2W and we can finally decide what is or isn't P2W 
I will start

BDO Costumes : The can be salvaged for cron stones.
There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
GdemamiScot
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Comments

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781
    There is one thing there is no debate about. If it gives you an advantage in game over other players, it is P2W. Cosmetics are debatable. XP increasers are debatable in certain types of games (people probably debate this in open world pvp games). But if you pay real money for a better piece of gear or a better ship, it's P2W. And there are plenty of people that enjoy P2W systems.
    learis1
  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,662
    edited July 5
    Developers can make whatever they want P2W given enough reason to.

    Even cosmetics with even a little social manipulation.  For instance you could see things like LFG groups passing someone up in default avatars.

    In something like LoL I'm sure other players have noticed that teams with a couple of paid for cosmetics will probably be a little calmer. (Haven't played for over 8 years so may have changed).  And you would be an idiot if you think ArenaNet is failing to tracksuch a stat.

    ____ 

    And plenty of cases of different play styles having fundamentally different definitions of P2W.

    For instance someone going for "crafting firsts" is likely to really really hate the ability to buy and sell subscription tokens.  Just because of how much of a head start sellers of them have.

    While a hardcore raider that only cares about soul bound gear sees such a system as good.  Especially in a case where they can keep a reliable guildy around with it.

    ____

    Personally I'm kind of down on cosmetics.  The phrase "it's just cosmetic, and doesn't change gameplay" has allowed publishers to test so many of the worst things that are normal now (paid for RNG).  Also it has resulted in things that would have been rewards for gameplay, and put them behind RNG/Cash walls.
    Post edited by anemo on
    acidblood

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  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 990
    edited July 5
    pw2 most of the time is just a cheapskate excuse.

    yes if someone can buy a set of gear or whatever to wipe the floor with you then they did in fact pay to win. other than that, who cares?
    cheeba

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,353
    edited July 5
    Even "cosmetic" items now often come with small benefits. If you can sell items bought in the cash shop for in game currency in a game which makes you use loads of gold to advance items say, that's P2W too.

    I think the OP would have better luck by asking for items which are not P2W, the list would be manageable in that case!

     25 Agrees

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,106
    I think too many think of p2w in a pvp sense of the phrase.

    To me p2w is when you receive the entire game and all of it's contents ONLY through the cash shop with no other VIABLE way to actually receive the entire game.In some simplified mannerism,it is like you are paying to WIN the game,sort of like paying to buy some darts,you pop the right balloons you win the prize.
    Just like with cash shops,you are NEVER ever going to see that big teddy bear prize unless you purchase the darts to pop the balloons.

    I do not like ever seeing something a player has that i cannot have unless i pay more money,gaming should NOT be pay to receive to receive the game UNLESS the FULL cash shop price is equal to something of equal value,like a subscription.However the laughable part is that MOST of these cash shop games are as bad as total rubbish to only mildly playable,so why are people arguing over what is considered p2w in games that are not worth playing?

    Maybe you are an addicted gambler,or you find clash of clans addicting,the games like  these pray on people who are easily addicted to spending money.It is like TCG's if i can draw a comparison.I am sure EVERY single person with any common sense realizes TCG's are a complete RIPOFF,there is no 6 pack of cards that is worth 3-4 dollars,especially knowing you NEVER own a single  thing you are buying.People just do it,they get addicted to opening packs,they get excited seeing the cards unfold before their eyes,no matter how dumb the spending is,people are ADDICTED to something.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member RarePosts: 956
    edited July 5
    So far you all are doing it wrong : Name the game, and exact item please.
    Debate is not about the "idea" of p2w, it's a about items and the debate of that item
    There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
  • Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member RarePosts: 956
    Scot said:
    Even "cosmetic" items now often come with small benefits. If you can sell items bought in the cash shop for in game currency in a game which makes you use loads of gold to advance items say, that's P2W too.

    I think the OP would have better luck by asking for items which are not P2W, the list would be manageable in that case!
    Good point, but being able to do that negates gold farmers and keeps those transaction inside the developers / publishers universe.
    Scot
    There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 500
    Anything you can spend real money on is P2W... up to including the game itself... for you can't win a game you cannot play.

    Look at it from another perspective... player A in Australia buys the game.  He is oblivious to the fact that player B from Netherlands bought his character fully geared.  Both are in game playing.  Maybe they never even cross paths.  The fact that one player bought their way to the top is moot because the other player is oblivious to that fact.

    Now, lets say player A finds out the player B bought their toon because he bragged about it somewhere.  Now, player A feels cheated because they had to earn everything.  All of a sudden, there is a sense of foul play all because the player allowed the notion of cheating to enter their head.  Up until then, player A was a happy camper.  Now he is s disgruntled gamer.  Happy one day, pissed all the time the next.  A choice made by the player.  He chose to get pissed off about something he has no control over... to the detriment of his own gaming experience.  Player B is still as happy as ever.  His game experience hasn't changed in his mind one bit.

    It's like finding out you make $10 less an hour than the smuck next to you.  Up until you found out, you didn't feel cheated.  Now that you know that you were cheated, it becomes such a big thorn in your ass as to make you miserable all the time.  So much so that you quit your job to work somewhere else for more money... but still for less than the smuck next to you... but you haven't figured that out yet.

    Reality is... it only matters if you let it matter.  Once you do, the other player truly does win... because now you can't stop thinking about it.  So yeah, you lose.
    DeadSpockcheebaAlBQuirky
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781
    btdt said:
    Anything you can spend real money on is P2W... up to including the game itself... for you can't win a game you cannot play.

    Look at it from another perspective... player A in Australia buys the game.  He is oblivious to the fact that player B from Netherlands bought his character fully geared.  Both are in game playing.  Maybe they never even cross paths.  The fact that one player bought their way to the top is moot because the other player is oblivious to that fact.

    Now, lets say player A finds out the player B bought their toon because he bragged about it somewhere.  Now, player A feels cheated because they had to earn everything.  All of a sudden, there is a sense of foul play all because the player allowed the notion of cheating to enter their head.  Up until then, player A was a happy camper.  Now he is s disgruntled gamer.  Happy one day, pissed all the time the next.  A choice made by the player.  He chose to get pissed off about something he has no control over... to the detriment of his own gaming experience.  Player B is still as happy as ever.  His game experience hasn't changed in his mind one bit.

    It's like finding out you make $10 less an hour than the smuck next to you.  Up until you found out, you didn't feel cheated.  Now that you know that you were cheated, it becomes such a big thorn in your ass as to make you miserable all the time.  So much so that you quit your job to work somewhere else for more money... but still for less than the smuck next to you... but you haven't figured that out yet.

    Reality is... it only matters if you let it matter.  Once you do, the other player truly does win... because now you can't stop thinking about it.  So yeah, you lose.
    You don't really lose though. You just stop playing that game in favor of one with a system that isn't based on how much money you input. There are plenty of options and P2W games can be avoided pretty easily if you don't like the idea of other people buying power for RL money.
    Gdemamicheeba
  • Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member RarePosts: 956
    So far, people still aren't getting the post.

    NAME AN ITEM AND THE GAME.
    SovrathTorval
    There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,800
    Monopoly. Boardwalk.

    Clearly P2W.
    Raging Demons for all flowchart "Kens". This is a metaphor.
  • Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member RarePosts: 956
    Monopoly. Boardwalk.

    Clearly P2W.
    nope, because anyone can roll on Broadwalk, that C2W / chance to win
    There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,800
    edited July 6
    Monopoly. Boardwalk.

    Clearly P2W.
    nope, because anyone can roll on Broadwalk, that C2W / chance to win
    Still gotta pay to own it.


    hallucigenocide
    Raging Demons for all flowchart "Kens". This is a metaphor.
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,156
    Name one item from any game that you feel is P2W and we can finally decide what is or isn't P2W 
    I will start

    BDO Costumes : The can be salvaged for cron stones.
    Congress defined P2W as paying for costumes that you could get in game (as social achievements).
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,524
    I never feel cheated because someone paid more money in game than me. I really dont care, the person who actually paid money for p2w game is probably making a better business decision than the person who grinds their way to the top.

    You can spend 50 hours grinding for gear or you can work 10 extra hours at a job and pay to bypass the grinding and you still have 40 hours in your pocket. 

    Grinding is a very bad business decision usually as opposed to paying your way to the top. 

    Now not all calculations are worth it and the whales can go into the thousands. I met a surgeon who used to pay money in video games, he of course worked like a dog, and used his money for some relaxation. 

    He didnt have time, so he made a business decision to catch up with money. The person who grinds all day, has no money, and thus complains when other people spend money not realizing that they have their own advantage in time where people who have money, usually dont.

    Overall, who cares about P2W, there are hundreds of games to choose from, you know what you get into, stop complaining about what you go into.
    Gdemamicheeba
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781
    edited July 6
    I never feel cheated because someone paid more money in game than me. I really dont care, the person who actually paid money for p2w game is probably making a better business decision than the person who grinds their way to the top.

    You can spend 50 hours grinding for gear or you can work 10 extra hours at a job and pay to bypass the grinding and you still have 40 hours in your pocket. 

    Grinding is a very bad business decision usually as opposed to paying your way to the top. 

    Now not all calculations are worth it and the whales can go into the thousands. I met a surgeon who used to pay money in video games, he of course worked like a dog, and used his money for some relaxation. 

    He didnt have time, so he made a business decision to catch up with money. The person who grinds all day, has no money, and thus complains when other people spend money not realizing that they have their own advantage in time where people who have money, usually dont.

    Overall, who cares about P2W, there are hundreds of games to choose from, you know what you get into, stop complaining about what you go into.
    The great thing about effective P2W games is that they make sure there is always more to spend on. So no matter how much "time you save," there is always more "time to save."
    AlBQuirky
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,756
    This is P2W. 

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  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 741
    edited July 6
    Anything Roblox = everything P2W. A mining game, you can pay immediately for the fastest pickax and biggest bag with unlimited space.

    My two boys were watching a YouTuber play a certain Roblox game, and both wanted me to spend $15 for the best pick/backpack, and they'd give me cash for it. I warned them that they were bypassing the whole point of that particular game and it would ruin their fun. They both denied it, so I bought them the things and they played for an hour, if that, and never went back....

    Roblox is full of P2W bullshit.

    Gut Out!
    CryomatrixKyleranAlBQuirkyPrime_Directive

    What, me worry?

  • WoeToTheVanquishedWoeToTheVanquished Member UncommonPosts: 233
    pw2 most of the time is just a cheapskate excuse.

    yes if someone can buy a set of gear or whatever to wipe the floor with you then they did in fact pay to win. other than that, who cares?
    how much are you willing to spend on an mmo that trades you in-game power for irl $?
  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 990
    pw2 most of the time is just a cheapskate excuse.

    yes if someone can buy a set of gear or whatever to wipe the floor with you then they did in fact pay to win. other than that, who cares?
    how much are you willing to spend on an mmo that trades you in-game power for irl $?
    none. i wouldn't really bother with a game that has it as an option.
    what i was trying to say is that it's more often than not just something f2p freeloaders throw around because there's an ingame store or even a sub.

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,561
    P2W isn’t just item based, that notion is a gross over simplification. A small example:

    The best ingame gear is available in the cashshop for 250 bucks. You can also obtain it ingame by playing for 5 hours. Most wouldn’t call that P2W.

    The best ingame gear is available in the cashshop for 5 bucks. You can also obtain it ingame by playing for 500 hours. Most would call that P2W. 

    In both situations the item is exactly the same, the conclusion isn’t. And then I am not even talking about personal value. Some find character slots and bag space most important, others cosmetics, others +enchant. If you would make a database out of that everything would be considered P2W.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    AlBQuirky
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,353
    Name one item from any game that you feel is P2W and we can finally decide what is or isn't P2W 
    I will start

    BDO Costumes : The can be salvaged for cron stones.
    Congress defined P2W as paying for costumes that you could get in game (as social achievements).
    For players who want MMOs to make money in a way that does not effect gameplay that is a rather poor decision.

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,915
    Success rate boost items . See them and you know that the game are 100% P2W .
    Vermillion_RaventhalPrime_DirectiveAlBQuirky
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,156
    Scot said:
    Name one item from any game that you feel is P2W and we can finally decide what is or isn't P2W 
    I will start

    BDO Costumes : The can be salvaged for cron stones.
    Congress defined P2W as paying for costumes that you could get in game (as social achievements).
    For players who want MMOs to make money in a way that does not effect gameplay that is a rather poor decision.
    To be fair, they pretty much declared all sale of any content other than  a required single upfront purchase or set monthly sub as P2W, and then tried to make it a Federal Crime.
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,616
    I dont like the term "P2W" as its meaning is not clearly defined. It implies "winning" which means different things to different people under different circumstances.

    I dont personally care about "winning". For me, selling any ingame assets for real cash in an MMORPG ruins immersion. That is why I dont like it. I think the worst items sold in cash shops are the ones giving players any ingame advantages.

    In my view described above, I am looking at it purely from a player's perspective ignoring the business aspect.
    CryomatrixAlBQuirky
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