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Perhaps Let Me Be the Quest Giver

AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,232
It is standard in mmorpgs for heroes to perform tasks, oftentimes mindless, stupid tasks, for which they are rewarded with xp, faction, coin, or items. 

And maybe that's ok when an adventurer is just starting out. It's the mmo equivalent to starting in the mailroom.

But as you advance, what if you became the quest giver? Instead of fetching Grandma Moses some apples for her to make a pie, send some NPC or player to do it, pay them a little coin or something they value, and have them come back with the applies. Then, if you have cooking skills, bake your own pie, and maybe get a special pie recipe for your reward.

Or maybe set a player bounty on other players or NPCs.

I'm sure other people could come up with better and more clever things. But as it usually is now (some exceptions), even after I wear the Armor of Awesomeness and wield the Sword of Truth, I am still everyone's gofer. At some point a hero ought to be able to delegate.

EQ2 has a system a little like this in guild halls, where there are NPCs you can get for guild halls you can send out to forge supplies. 

EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

AlBQuirky

Comments

  • JackDundeeJackDundee Member EpicPosts: 2,688
    Do you like even play WOW bro ? This was a colossus failure , Garrisons were a horrible idea



    Gaming should be your therapy, Not your reason for seeking Therapy
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781
    I liked garrisons. I don't like how they made me feel like I had to babysit them every day. But I still liked them and thought they were a great addition.
    JackDundee
  • JackDundeeJackDundee Member EpicPosts: 2,688
    I liked garrisons. I don't like how they made me feel like I had to babysit them every day. But I still liked them and thought they were a great addition.
                                           

    Gaming should be your therapy, Not your reason for seeking Therapy
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,232
    Do you like even play WOW bro ? 


    Not anymore. But I don't doubt that you like even do.
    AlBQuirkyAsheram

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,554
    Is this really about being a quest giver or more about having less of a "game" and more of a world where players build, live, conquer?

    I think it's that. Just a large Sandbox world.


    AlBQuirky



  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,764
    The problem isn't the mechanic it's the reason.  The MMOs out there today do not give you a reason to.  Everything is geared towards the casual, but if one goes on the market that requires a hardcore time sink to aquire things, then the reason would be there.

    Say perhaps you are a crafter, you do pve but just the basic to gather materials.  The game requires a hardcore raider/gear component in order to get a rare material.  You'd create a request that a player could accept within a specific timeline and an upfront cost of failure and the reward, but doing so they have to put forth an honest effort by fronting an amount of in game money incase they can not accomplish it. That way only the most confident would sign up assuming the reward is worth it to them.

    A system like this would create "player" legends.  Players you would and the server would know for greatness, accomplishments.  Old SWG had a legend like status with crafters and jedis, but then again that game was ahead of its time.

    Make the world real, make the accomplishments real and you got a player based quest system.
    AlBQuirkyaRtFuLThinG
    I'm a simple man spoiled from MMOs of the old age.  Looking for a home but deserted.  My heart and time is not worthy for the MMOs of the new age.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,232
    edited July 5
    Sovrath said:
    Is this really about being a quest giver or more about having less of a "game" and more of a world where players build, live, conquer?

    I think it's that. Just a large Sandbox world.


    I can see your point. What I'm really driving at though is that, as a typical game develops, your character becomes more powerful, and is able to face tougher and tougher challenges, but he/she never loses the status of someone else's flunky. Kill this, fetch that. 

    I would like to see part of your character's growth as being more and more able to delegate mundane tasks.

    Maybe when a quest is offered the choices could be:

    Accept
    Decline
    Delegate

    Possibly after you become a Knight you could have a Squire to whom you can delegate. And you would want to improve/level up your Squire so delegation has a better chance of being successful. 
    AlBQuirky

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781
    Amathe said:
    Sovrath said:
    Is this really about being a quest giver or more about having less of a "game" and more of a world where players build, live, conquer?

    I think it's that. Just a large Sandbox world.


    I can see your point. What I'm really driving at though is that, as a typical game develops, your character becomes more powerful, and is able to face tougher and tougher challenges, but he/she never loses the status of someone else's flunky. Kill this, fetch that. 

    I would like to see part of your character's growth as being more and more able to delegate mundane tasks.

    Maybe when a quest is offered the choices could be:

    Accept
    Decline
    Delegate

    Possibly after you become a Knight you could have a Squire to whom you can delegate. And you would want to improve/level up your Squire so delegation has a better chance of being successful. 
    What does that look like in practice though? The player doesn't actually do anything. Well, they make a decision about which task to delegate. Then they wait for a return of some kind (pass,fail,partial,whatever). It actually removes player interaction and doesn't add to it.

    I think SWTOR had a system almost exactly like what you are talking about with companions and crew skills. Here is a link to the description:

    https://swtor.gamepedia.com/Crew_Skill

    "The Crew Skills system allows players to take advantage of the valuable resources, high-tech schematics, and intriguing opportunities the galaxy has to offer without having to break away from their storyline. Players can assign their crew of companions to gather resources, craft useful and valuable items, and even to undertake their own missions, providing the player and the rest of the crew a variety of benefits and rewards."

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,610
    Amathe said:
    Instead of fetching Grandma Moses some apples for her to make a pie, send some NPC or player to do it, pay them a little coin or something they value, and have them come back with the applies. Then, if you have cooking skills, bake your own pie, and maybe get a special pie recipe for your reward.
     
    ...it is called auction house.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 5,168
    In EQ1, players often went to newbie zones and "zone chatted" requests for spell components or crafting materials that low level mobs had on them. Things like "bone chips" from skeletons or "snake scales" from various snakes. Awarding a new player 1pp for a stack of asked for components was well worth the effort for them :)

    I even recall some guilds would set up "healing stations" near dungeons or other busy open areas. Anyone could come by and get some healing.

    This kind of thing worked "back then" because the games were geared for it. In today's fast paced MMOs where almost everything is more quickly achieved when done by yourself, this kind of activity is not very conducive anymore. Now, it's all about the "race to the endgame!" Nobody has "time" for this anymore, I guess.

    I can see your idea of "accept, decline, or delegate" being a good one, if the game supported that kind of choice :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781
    AlBQuirky said:
    In EQ1, players often went to newbie zones and "zone chatted" requests for spell components or crafting materials that low level mobs had on them. Things like "bone chips" from skeletons or "snake scales" from various snakes. Awarding a new player 1pp for a stack of asked for components was well worth the effort for them :)

    I even recall some guilds would set up "healing stations" near dungeons or other busy open areas. Anyone could come by and get some healing.

    This kind of thing worked "back then" because the games were geared for it. In today's fast paced MMOs where almost everything is more quickly achieved when done by yourself, this kind of activity is not very conducive anymore. Now, it's all about the "race to the endgame!" Nobody has "time" for this anymore, I guess.

    I can see your idea of "accept, decline, or delegate" being a good one, if the game supported that kind of choice :)
    People still buy ports in games like WoW. Also, lower levels are still selling low level mats to high level players in all games for huge prices on auction houses. It is more streamlined these days, but there is still a value/time proposition at the end of the day. It still takes way less time to farm "1 plat" at max level than it does to gather 20 "bone chips."
    AlBQuirky
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,554
    edited July 5
    Amathe said:
    Sovrath said:
    Is this really about being a quest giver or more about having less of a "game" and more of a world where players build, live, conquer?

    I think it's that. Just a large Sandbox world.


    I can see your point. What I'm really driving at though is that, as a typical game develops, your character becomes more powerful, and is able to face tougher and tougher challenges, but he/she never loses the status of someone else's flunky. Kill this, fetch that. 

    I would like to see part of your character's growth as being more and more able to delegate mundane tasks.

    Maybe when a quest is offered the choices could be:

    Accept
    Decline
    Delegate

    Possibly after you become a Knight you could have a Squire to whom you can delegate. And you would want to improve/level up your Squire so delegation has a better chance of being successful. 
    Well, one could do what I do in these games and not do "quests" or tasks that one thinks doesn't fit with the character. Unfortunately for a lot of games that could put up a barrier to "story progression" or even progressing in the world.  I mean, one has to do a certain set of quests in order to enter Moria in Lord of the Rings Online.

    But I guess that's the nature of mmorpg's as "games."

    My preference would be to not have quests but to have tasks, jobs, requests and to have players pick what they can do and not do various things for whatever reasons.

    A jewelery maker needs stones and will pay top dollar. Players with the correct skill to find and extract rare stones would take that job. Those players who don't have those skills but who are skilled fighters (whatever that looks like) might take on more "witcher type" jobs.

    A local merchant's caravan was attacked and he/she wants the items back, one in particular. Unfortunately it's in an extremely dangerous area that is governed by a warlord. Either a small group of player can get in or perhaps a guild goes in and fights their way through.

    A knight wouldn't take the gather 10 logs quest but perhaps a character that prides himself/herself on gathering materials for others would.

    As Beans said, Star Wars the Old Republic has as somewhat similar system where one has people to do these things. I'm sort of ok with that if the game is less about doing such tasks and more about "the adventure." Star Wars the Old Republic is more like that so it makes sense.
    AlBQuirky



  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 5,168
    AlBQuirky said:
    In EQ1, players often went to newbie zones and "zone chatted" requests for spell components or crafting materials that low level mobs had on them. Things like "bone chips" from skeletons or "snake scales" from various snakes. Awarding a new player 1pp for a stack of asked for components was well worth the effort for them :)

    I even recall some guilds would set up "healing stations" near dungeons or other busy open areas. Anyone could come by and get some healing.

    This kind of thing worked "back then" because the games were geared for it. In today's fast paced MMOs where almost everything is more quickly achieved when done by yourself, this kind of activity is not very conducive anymore. Now, it's all about the "race to the endgame!" Nobody has "time" for this anymore, I guess.

    I can see your idea of "accept, decline, or delegate" being a good one, if the game supported that kind of choice :)
    People still buy ports in games like WoW. Also, lower levels are still selling low level mats to high level players in all games for huge prices on auction houses. It is more streamlined these days, but there is still a value/time proposition at the end of the day. It still takes way less time to farm "1 plat" at max level than it does to gather 20 "bone chips."
    That's true. This was before "The Nexus" (was that the Luclin expansion?) that was EQ's idea for an auction house. Back when players spent hours in the starting zones anyway, killing the mobs as they spawned. It was an added bonus for doing what they were already doing :)

    Or was you comment more about the higher level players and their time? Full agreement on the "streamlined" comment :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 995
    That is what the auction house is for.  You mine/craft/lumber/craft something and put it in the auction house for someone who want it.

    Or in games where there isn't an auction house, you spam chat for the same thing.

    There isn't a formal quest but it function the same way.
    AlBQuirky
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,642
    Here be ye quest.. Defeat nerds





  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,832
    edited July 5
    This is another reason why I dislike leveling systems.  You require fuel to get exp and it's usually at the expense of the world and story. Or they are just grinds of NPCs.  Most MMORPG just have quest to say they have content and something to get exp from.  Not well written or meaningful to anything.




    Gdemami
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,888
    I remember playing LoTRO...There was a quest where some lady wanted you to run a pie across town...So I did and got about half a level for it....That was worth more exp than killing trolls for an hour nonstop.
    AlBQuirky
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 741
    I'd be the worst quest giver...I hate asking for help IRL, so I couldn't see me doing it to a thousand people running through my house uninvited every day.... Killing a few rats would be nice, but if there were a few hundred thousand being killed I could start a rat pelt empire I guess!

    Gut Out!
    AlBQuirky

    What, me worry?

  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 405
    edited July 10
    Amathe said:
    It is standard in mmorpgs for heroes to perform tasks, oftentimes mindless, stupid tasks, for which they are rewarded with xp, faction, coin, or items. 

    And maybe that's ok when an adventurer is just starting out. It's the mmo equivalent to starting in the mailroom.

    But as you advance, what if you became the quest giver? Instead of fetching Grandma Moses some apples for her to make a pie, send some NPC or player to do it, pay them a little coin or something they value, and have them come back with the applies. Then, if you have cooking skills, bake your own pie, and maybe get a special pie recipe for your reward.

    Or maybe set a player bounty on other players or NPCs.

    I'm sure other people could come up with better and more clever things. But as it usually is now (some exceptions), even after I wear the Armor of Awesomeness and wield the Sword of Truth, I am still everyone's gofer. At some point a hero ought to be able to delegate.

    EQ2 has a system a little like this in guild halls, where there are NPCs you can get for guild halls you can send out to forge supplies. 
    In Everquest I first earned 20,000 plat in different zones. Next I sought a no drop item that was reward in a quest. Only problem was it was a longer duration series of GROUP quests. It requires some knowledge of the fights. I needed someone who knew the quest well enough. It could be done in a couple hours maybe, but it mostly needed to be done in one go. Nobody could be expect to actively be doing that quest at the time I did it. So what'd I do? I payed about 3 people to help me. It took a while to find them. A couple days at least. I split the 20,000 plat between them...

    I was the quest giver. It's one of my better memories. 20,000 plat wqasn't a lot during that time, but it was a lot for my main. Some of the players were extrme grinders, and 20,000 plat would have been nothing in their eyes. Still, a lot of us helped each other just for something to do, and I always think the person who had knowledge of the quest felt good sharing it. I was grateful.

    We had some tought moments. We did die a few times.

    AlBQuirkyAmathe
  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    Amathe said:

    I'm sure other people could come up with better and more clever things. But as it usually is now (some exceptions), even after I wear the Armor of Awesomeness and wield the Sword of Truth, I am still everyone's gofer. At some point a hero ought to be able to delegate.

    EQ2 has a system a little like this in guild halls, where there are NPCs you can get for guild halls you can send out to forge supplies. 
    (NPCs now foraging, because it's boring for players used to BUYING supplies and gear).

    THE problem with questing is the time it takes to make them. The EQ2 devs said it was one of the hardest things to do programming wise in MMOs, especially the epic quests. Players want the epic quests that feel worthwhile, yet it takes time and money to make.

    So we get too many copy and paste code of kill quests, instead. BORING as hell, too. But it's easier to do and fills the gamer's time to play.

    I like how Blizzard is making these sideline and hidden quests. They're off the main storylines in raids and dungeons, but they add more to the story (like that Uuna questline). You're not REQUIRED to do it, there's no 10ft sword of ultimate might that every meta gamer HAS to complete to raid, either. But for lore hounds and pet collectors (and those who like platform jumpers ... Ba'al's questline was just that!), it fits their fancy as they like stories and lore. For adventurers who like finding "loot" in twisty caves and that stuff, those quests are well worth it. They're adding puzzles and jumping games (the jumping jellies WQ was fun) and testing your coordination skills. Not just racing to some loot end like some bot.
    AlBQuirky
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,915
    edited July 11
    I prefer anonymous quest giver instead of actor NPC
    Like in fantasy adventure novel where you go to adventure guild , grab a quest on quest board then after finish go back to the guild talk with guild's NPCs to get reward random.


    AlBQuirky
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781
    Amathe said:

    I'm sure other people could come up with better and more clever things. But as it usually is now (some exceptions), even after I wear the Armor of Awesomeness and wield the Sword of Truth, I am still everyone's gofer. At some point a hero ought to be able to delegate.

    EQ2 has a system a little like this in guild halls, where there are NPCs you can get for guild halls you can send out to forge supplies. 
    (NPCs now foraging, because it's boring for players used to BUYING supplies and gear).

    THE problem with questing is the time it takes to make them. The EQ2 devs said it was one of the hardest things to do programming wise in MMOs, especially the epic quests. Players want the epic quests that feel worthwhile, yet it takes time and money to make.

    So we get too many copy and paste code of kill quests, instead. BORING as hell, too. But it's easier to do and fills the gamer's time to play.

    I like how Blizzard is making these sideline and hidden quests. They're off the main storylines in raids and dungeons, but they add more to the story (like that Uuna questline). You're not REQUIRED to do it, there's no 10ft sword of ultimate might that every meta gamer HAS to complete to raid, either. But for lore hounds and pet collectors (and those who like platform jumpers ... Ba'al's questline was just that!), it fits their fancy as they like stories and lore. For adventurers who like finding "loot" in twisty caves and that stuff, those quests are well worth it. They're adding puzzles and jumping games (the jumping jellies WQ was fun) and testing your coordination skills. Not just racing to some loot end like some bot.
    Just for the record... One of my favorite experience in MMORPGs was trying to complete EQ2 heritage quests. I have a feeling that there weren't enough people that felt the same way. But I loved those heritage quests and spent a lot of time doing them.
    AlBQuirky
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