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Is leveling the only solution ?.. I have one.

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,641
I'm sure we would all like a levelless system for advancement. 

Leveling can't be exploited...IT'S FIXED BY TIME AND WORK. Unless a game is made poorly and players mess with the coding, its fixed.

Someone mentioned gear- Sure you would have to work for good gear and that can be the leveling process.... BUT this cant work in an mmorpg process.  Alternates of your character, friends or Guild members can pass along better gear making you max strong at level 1.... Even gold can buy a max level set on an auction. 

Someone mentioned better skill- being the players advancement.... BUT some players have the unique ability to be great at level 1....Players of this type will find it boring if they have max skill from the start.  Besides the extremely skilled video gamer, the average Joe will get better at the game and all their alternates will be great from the start.  

Exploration to advance your character- Finding skills in the world. Now this may not be an exploit but the power of Youtube and word-of-mouth would destroy the chances of this being a viable solution. Players will help others, achieve skills at level 1. 

Important:
Every idea other than "leveling" can and will be exploited...... I've soul searched for alternate methods of advancement....... We have a great "think tank" here with this community, and no one had found a better solution.  

Leveling system is not a bad thing.... but throughout the years, it would be nice to see something different and unique. 



***There is a solution***
Unfortunately it involves leveling.... The solution has been done before. 
  
Slow leveling.... Staying at level for a long time.... A player at level 20 can play for "weeks" with levels 17- 24.  This would involve a large game, large zones, a big world..... This is Vanilla World of Warcraft !!!...... This is the reason its famous  :o  

Developers refuse to acknowledge a LARGE GAME.... 30 days of content the most. The problem is at it's worst. 
alkarionlog
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Comments

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,554
    That is a good solution if you consider players who dislike leveling a problem you want to get rid of.
    GdemamiOctagon7711
     
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 500
    Lest we forget....

    Vanilla WoW didn't have any more content than retail WoW.  What was different is the PLAYERS created their own content.

    You know, the RP part in MMORPG.  Anyone can toss a million players into a game.  You have your MMOG... it's the players, AND ONLY THE PLAYERS, who can generate the RP part.

    It's not about levels... how many levels... how long it takes to level... it has, and always been about player creativity.

    If you are so brain dead as to need someone to tell you what to do... MMORPGS were never meant for you.

    Retail WoW sucks because it attempts to tell you what you should be doing all the time.  Leave brain at the door sort of game.  The player creativity is literally non-existent because they've artificially created it.

    I don't know why I even waste a single brain cell at this damn website.  My god the stupidity that gets posted here endlessly by the same damn person is mind boggling.
    GdemamiAmatheAlBQuirkyOctagon7711Steelhelm
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,315
    I'm not a fan of leveling progression. It's arbitrary and creates a lot of disposable content.

    I'd prefer a progression system in which the player expands their options by hunting for rare weapons and skills from specific foes and/or specific challenges.
    GdemamiAlBQuirkyHatefullCryomatrix
  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 204
    edited July 3
    Maybe Rapid content development tools and A.I generated content. i know it cant go on for ever, but having rooms of people making maps and content isnt economically viable
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,915

    Someone mentioned gear- Sure you would have to work for good gear and that can be the leveling process.... BUT this cant work in an mmorpg process.  Alternates of your character, friends or Guild members can pass along better gear making you max strong at level 1.... Even gold can buy a max level set on an auction. 


    Are you sure that have gears make you max strong at level 1 ?

    let's use an example of old games system
    Max gears give you around 300 stats
    Max level is 100 and each level give you 5 stats , max level is 500 stats .

    It mean that even if you are max gears at level 1 , it mean you only around level 60 naked .

    Levelless or no level is not the solution , the solution is remove the link between other type of progression

    The problem with level design right now is is "at level x do y quest equip z gears" the solution is break them parts so it not giving player stress 
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,232
    I guess the OP's solution to bad tasting medicine is to drink it very, very slow?

    He doesn't seem to get that opponents of leveling (not me, btw) dislike it at any speed. 
    AlBQuirkyanemoSovrathHatefullOctagon7711

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 5,168
    Vrika said:
    That is a good solution if you consider players who dislike leveling a problem you want to get rid of.
    Would that be a bad thing in a genre built around advancement?
    Gdemami

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,554
    edited July 3

    ***There is a solution***
    Unfortunately it involves leveling.... The solution has been done before. 
      
    Slow leveling.... Staying at level for a long time.... A player at level 20 can play for "weeks" with levels 17- 24.  This would involve a large game, large zones, a big world..... This is Vanilla World of Warcraft !!!...... This is the reason its famous  :o  

    Developers refuse to acknowledge a LARGE GAME.... 30 days of content the most. The problem is at it's worst. 
    This was already done. In Lineage 2. Extremely slow leveling. 

    What happened was the competitive people hit the grinding very hard, everyone else tried to keep up and eventually quit and then some of the competitive people got burned out and quit.

    I'm all for slow leveling but it's not a solution to leveling. That's ridiculous. You will just make the people who hate leveling hate it even more because they will rarely level as time goes on.


    HatefullAlBQuirky



  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,641
    edited July 3
    btdt said:
    Lest we forget....

    Vanilla WoW didn't have any more content than retail WoW.  What was different is the PLAYERS created their own content.

    You know, the RP part in MMORPG.  Anyone can toss a million players into a game.  You have your MMOG... it's the players, AND ONLY THE PLAYERS, who can generate the RP part.

    It's not about levels... how many levels... how long it takes to level... it has, and always been about player creativity.

    If you are so brain dead as to need someone to tell you what to do... MMORPGS were never meant for you.

    Retail WoW sucks because it attempts to tell you what you should be doing all the time.  Leave brain at the door sort of game.  The player creativity is literally non-existent because they've artificially created it.

    I don't know why I even waste a single brain cell at this damn website.  My god the stupidity that gets posted here endlessly by the same damn person is mind boggling.
    Well, I guess the word WoW make you go Berserk !!! 

    "out of control with anger or excitement; wild or frenzied"

    You blew right through the"Large game part" and wow was only the example.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,692
    I stopped reading after the 1st sentence.
    But I want to clarify. By leveling system, you mean some kind of progression or growth?

    Yeah, that's the point of RPGs. It's like saying "I want the next Mario Bros. to not make me have to jump from platform to platform."

    People say "We don't want leveling" Then what you are saying is "I don't really want an RPG" I want something LIKE and RPG that starts me off at full power.

    But RPGs by nature are stories you interact with and present an antagonist you must overcome.

    So the question is.......what do you put in place of growth?

    SovrathAmatheOctagon7711RemaliAlBQuirky
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,641
    Sovrath said:

    ***There is a solution***
    Unfortunately it involves leveling.... The solution has been done before. 
      
    Slow leveling.... Staying at level for a long time.... A player at level 20 can play for "weeks" with levels 17- 24.  This would involve a large game, large zones, a big world..... This is Vanilla World of Warcraft !!!...... This is the reason its famous  :o  

    Developers refuse to acknowledge a LARGE GAME.... 30 days of content the most. The problem is at it's worst. 
    This was already done. In Lineage 2. Extremely slow leveling. 

    What happened was the competitive people hit the grinding very hard, everyone else tried to keep up and eventually quit and then some of the competitive people got burned out and quit.

    I'm all for slow leveling but it's not a solution to leveling. That's ridiculous. You will just make the people who hate leveling hate it even more because they will rarely level as time goes on.


    Good developer = good content
    Bad developer = bad content 

    I'll be with you totally if you have a better solution 
    Gdemami
  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,662
    There's a difference between how powerful a character is and how leveled they are.

    Levels could be the difference between something like a LoL Soraka (a generic and basic healer) or a LoL Nami (a healer that gives up some control over their heals, sustain, instead getting some interesting zoning and CC abilities).

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,888
    I like leveling..I like having that carrot in front of me...I've tried several games that had no leveling system and I get bored pretty quickly.....
    JackDundeeTindale111AlBQuirkyk61977
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,554
    Sovrath said:

    ***There is a solution***
    Unfortunately it involves leveling.... The solution has been done before. 
      
    Slow leveling.... Staying at level for a long time.... A player at level 20 can play for "weeks" with levels 17- 24.  This would involve a large game, large zones, a big world..... This is Vanilla World of Warcraft !!!...... This is the reason its famous  :o  

    Developers refuse to acknowledge a LARGE GAME.... 30 days of content the most. The problem is at it's worst. 
    This was already done. In Lineage 2. Extremely slow leveling. 

    What happened was the competitive people hit the grinding very hard, everyone else tried to keep up and eventually quit and then some of the competitive people got burned out and quit.

    I'm all for slow leveling but it's not a solution to leveling. That's ridiculous. You will just make the people who hate leveling hate it even more because they will rarely level as time goes on.


    Good developer = good content
    Bad developer = bad content 

    I'll be with you totally if you have a better solution 
    good content
    bad content

    subjective.
    GeezerGamerHatefullAlBQuirky



  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,488
    You hate leveling, you hate expansions.....maybe you just hate MMOs? Please spare us of your next thread where you hate instances, grinding, loot, cosmetics, and/or mounts that get you somewhere too fast. 


    HatefullanemoAlBQuirky
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,692
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:

    ***There is a solution***
    Unfortunately it involves leveling.... The solution has been done before. 
      
    Slow leveling.... Staying at level for a long time.... A player at level 20 can play for "weeks" with levels 17- 24.  This would involve a large game, large zones, a big world..... This is Vanilla World of Warcraft !!!...... This is the reason its famous  :o  

    Developers refuse to acknowledge a LARGE GAME.... 30 days of content the most. The problem is at it's worst. 
    This was already done. In Lineage 2. Extremely slow leveling. 

    What happened was the competitive people hit the grinding very hard, everyone else tried to keep up and eventually quit and then some of the competitive people got burned out and quit.

    I'm all for slow leveling but it's not a solution to leveling. That's ridiculous. You will just make the people who hate leveling hate it even more because they will rarely level as time goes on.


    Good developer = good content
    Bad developer = bad content 

    I'll be with you totally if you have a better solution 
    good content
    bad content

    subjective.
    It also is far too oversimplified and leaves out so many factors.
    SovrathAlBQuirky
  • JackDundeeJackDundee Member EpicPosts: 2,688
    I like leveling..I like having that carrot in front of me...I've tried several games that had no leveling system and I get bored pretty quickly.....
    Yeah completely agree. Whether I'v been programmed by past games or just too old and stubborn to change i just can't get into the non traditional means of leveling 
    Hatefull

    Gaming should be your therapy, Not your reason for seeking Therapy
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,641
    Viper482 said:
    You hate leveling, you hate expansions.....maybe you just hate MMOs? Please spare us of your next thread where you hate instances, grinding, loot, cosmetics, and/or mounts that get you somewhere too fast. 


    Actually I like leveling, just not 30 day games where you power level beyond the community. Who has time for friends in a game like that ?
    AlBQuirky
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,888
    Viper482 said:
    You hate leveling, you hate expansions.....maybe you just hate MMOs? Please spare us of your next thread where you hate instances, grinding, loot, cosmetics, and/or mounts that get you somewhere too fast. 


    At least he tries to stimulate conversation...some of them are repeat threads like this one, but we are here to chat after all.
    JackDundee
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,641
    I would like to pose a few questions to this fine community: 

    Are their better solutions ?.... I'm open.  
    Is the solution of slow leveling really that bad ?
    Is leveling so bad to you that you hate the idea ?
    If so, 99% mmorpgs are bad why play any of them ?
    Is this an angry topic ?
    Are you disagreeing with the posting or because it's me ? 

    What else would you like to talk about ?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,610
    Are their better solutions ?.... 
    ...solution to what?

    There is no issue, at least you haven't presented any.
    VengeSunsoarAlBQuirky
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,232
    I'm sure we would all like a levelless system for advancement. 

     
    This isn't true. But if you think it's true, (a) there is nothing to discuss, and (b) why would you propose a system with levels if no one wants them?

    You and I do have one common ground. We're both 56 years old. At 56, regularity becomes an issue. I wish I could drop a deuce every Friday like you do on these message boards. It would save me a fortune in blueberries, prunes and pistachios.  
    AlBQuirkyElaland

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • HatefullHatefull Member RarePosts: 2,079
    Sovrath said:

    ***There is a solution***
    Unfortunately it involves leveling.... The solution has been done before. 
      
    Slow leveling.... Staying at level for a long time.... A player at level 20 can play for "weeks" with levels 17- 24.  This would involve a large game, large zones, a big world..... This is Vanilla World of Warcraft !!!...... This is the reason its famous  :o  

    Developers refuse to acknowledge a LARGE GAME.... 30 days of content the most. The problem is at it's worst. 
    This was already done. In Lineage 2. Extremely slow leveling. 

    What happened was the competitive people hit the grinding very hard, everyone else tried to keep up and eventually quit and then some of the competitive people got burned out and quit.

    I'm all for slow leveling but it's not a solution to leveling. That's ridiculous. You will just make the people who hate leveling hate it even more because they will rarely level as time goes on.


    Yup, I could level 10 toons in WoW (Vanilla, lvl 60) to max level in the time it took me to get 1 toon from lvl 69 to 70 in L2. I remember going to play WoW after I had been in L2 for...damn about a year and I was laughing at how easy levels came.

    delete5230 said:
    I would like to pose a few questions to this fine community: 

    Are their better solutions ?.... I'm open.  
    Is the solution of slow leveling really that bad ?
    Is leveling so bad to you that you hate the idea ?
    If so, 99% mmorpgs are bad why play any of them ?
    Is this an angry topic ?
    Are you disagreeing with the posting or because it's me ? 

    What else would you like to talk about ?
    I really enjoy how you imply that Lineage 2 was a bad game, then you ask: "Is slow leveling really that bad"? Yes, it is if you knew what you were talking about you would realize it's a bloody horrible idea. Unless of course, your aim is to kill the game then it is wonderful.

    You are trying to discuss solutions for a "problem" that does not exist. Skill progression, level progression, gear progression, player skill, whatever system a developer uses, there will be a progression in some form if not multiple. It's sort of how MMORPG games work.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,641
    Gdemami said:
    Are their better solutions ?.... 
    ...solution to what?

    There is no issue, at least you haven't presented any.
    This post has a lot of holes:
    -Solution to what ?.... solutions besides leveling... Topic seems clear
    -No issue ?....seems a lot of issues judging from past topics, it's often brought up... Seems clear 
    You haven't presented any ?.... Slow leveling, any other suggestions, the floor is wide open 

    Also think about how you phrased this... If their is no issue, how can you ask that I haven't presented any ?... presented any of what ?.. If their is nothing to present.
    Gdemami
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,232
    Gdemami said:
    Are their better solutions ?.... 
    ...solution to what?

    There is no issue, at least you haven't presented any.
    This post has a lot of holes:
    -Solution to what ?.... solutions besides leveling... Topic seems clear
    -No issue ?....seems a lot of issues judging from past topics, it's often brought up... Seems clear 
    You haven't presented any ?.... Slow leveling, any other suggestions, the floor is wide open 

    Also think about how you phrased this... If their is no issue, how can you ask that I haven't presented any ?... presented any of what ?.. If their is nothing to present.
    Stop, please. You are making me agree with @gdemami, and that is making me feel bad about myself. 
    delete5230HatefullAlBQuirky

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

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