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Valve Index VR Review: Next-Gen VR Has Arrived - MMORPG.com

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Wake me up when I can get multisensory VR while comfortably sitting down. I have zero interest in stumbling around my living room while flailing about destroying ornaments and shit.
    immodiumbartoni33mbrodie
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,509
    edited June 2019

    MMOman101 said:



    Initially they launched at too high a price. They've fixed that and have had a pretty stable price range for a while now.

    This new unit is $1000. The next new unit will be equally expensive, while there are units for $400, no one really wants them, they want the next gen.

    Regardless of cost, these units are all too big, too heavy and too limiting for my tastes, I will never wear something like this on my head,  just not happening.

    The Smart phone keeps bring used as an example,  poor comparison as it is basically a laptop replacement in an extremely small, convenient form factor which also happens to make phone calls.

    VRs more akin to strapping my Smart TV to my head.

    Call me when VR is available in a pair of light sun glasses, such as holoband design used in a TV show called Caprica.

    Oh yeah, can't cost more than $300.

    https://s.amsu.ng/Y1fFLp9upirN




    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,992
    Viper482 said:
    "Full Kit: $999"

    huh?

    I could afford to buy this right this second, I love gaming, and can't wait for VR to be perfected. Saying that, no way in hell I will pay this much for a single gaming component. I can't believe there is a market for this.
    It is not just if you can buy it, it is if you think you are being taken for a ride. :)
  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member EpicPosts: 1,269
    I see a lot of comments that clearly show some people are speaking of their perception of VR rather than actual experience with VR. I don't get the hate. It's an advance in gaming that you'd think people would be excited for. Instead, they act like their monitors are their girlfriends and VR is trying get her drunk so he can screw her.

    You can buy an Oculus Rift S for $400. Graphic quality is pretty good, but graphics in VR take a back seat to the immersion in any game, especially one with even a small amount of action. The headsets look bulky but actually sit pretty light on your head. Any game that I've played on both VR and a standard monitor is leaps and bounds better in VR. You don't need a lot of space, although it doesn't hurt to have a 5' or 6' sq area... the guardian system will keep you in bounds unless you go apeshit and start flailing around (see funny VR videos)

    The first three words out of anyone's mouth after putting on my VR headset are "whoa... whoa...whoa".

    Quit hating on something new for no reason. Even if VR isn't what you want it to be now, people here should be excited for the possibilities it represents.
    Asm0deusNephethTacticalZombeh
  • LunoTrickster34LunoTrickster34 Member UncommonPosts: 105
    mbrodie said:
    I find that VR is one of those things that people that want it to happen are super die hard about it and will tell anyone that isn't so interested or on the fence that they are wrong for thinking it's just a fad and it's 100% going to be the next big thing.

    For some of us gamers VR just isn't attractive in it's current or near future forms and while there may be a few great games on it, great for VR is still average at best to non VR even with the technology advancing and getting better at a steady pace.

    I can't say i would never buy a VR headset, but i can say that it wouldn't be in the next 5 years and to get me to do it, there would have to be some ground breaking game that i couldn't live without or play without VR because especially in it's current iteration i just don't find it all that great.

    The headset would need to be so much more slimline with full body gestures to start with, the thought of playing VR with controllers is actually kind of disgusting to me, especially after watching so many anime's and having super high expectations of what my VR experience should look like.

    This isn't any kind of argument that VR is just a fad, in my eyes it is and i never see it becoming mainstream and telling me i'm wrong and providing me all the evidence in the world won't change my mind, just like me doing the same wouldn't change VR fans minds that i'm wrong. it's just my opinion on the subject, nothing more.
    Usually fans of VR are in the know about the types of games and apps available, the hardware, the cost, the many misconceptions that get thrown around, and abut the state of R&D.

    People who call VR a fad never show such knowledge. They work very much on guesstimates which is why people often disagree with them. 

    You say you won't buy a headset in the next 5 years. How do you know? That's a random guess. What if there's (and it's likely to happen going off the R&D) a mainstream breakthrough product? 

    As for that groundbreaking must have game, it's entirely possible it could come this year or next with the Valve games.

    Why do you never see it becoming mainstream? You can list issues and I'd bet good money that nearly all of them will be irrelevant in 10 years. You can argue that people just won't want to use it much, and I can counter with how much real world use it would have in daily life.

    You really haven't thought this through.
    ultimateduck
  • LunoTrickster34LunoTrickster34 Member UncommonPosts: 105
    Iselin said:
    Wake me up when I can get multisensory VR while comfortably sitting down. I have zero interest in stumbling around my living room while flailing about destroying ornaments and shit.
    You already have multisensory VR while sitting down. You need to clarify, because you could either mean comfortable seated VR experiences or something like a brain interface which would be a long ways off.
  • LunoTrickster34LunoTrickster34 Member UncommonPosts: 105
    Kyleran said:

    MMOman101 said:



    Initially they launched at too high a price. They've fixed that and have had a pretty stable price range for a while now.

    This new unit is $1000. The next new unit will be equally expensive, while there are units for $400, no one really wants them, they want the next gen.

    Regardless of cost, these units are all too big, too heavy and too limiting for my tastes, I will never wear something like this on my head,  just not happening.

    The Smart phone keeps bring used as an example,  poor comparison as it is basically a laptop replacement in an extremely small, convenient form factor which also happens to make phone calls.

    VRs more akin to strapping my Smart TV to my head.

    Call me when VR is available in a pair of light sun glasses, such as holoband design used in a TV show called Caprica.

    Oh yeah, can't cost more than $300.

    https://s.amsu.ng/Y1fFLp9upirN
    Smartphones were not always that sleek. You can compare smartphones in their early days to VR in it's early days (now) and see a lot of similarities. 

    Likewise, VR in the same cycle that smartphones is in now would be a smartphone+laptop+TV+monitor replacement. Although it would have to be MR glasses meaning both VR and AR in one device.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,992
    Iselin said:
    Wake me up when I can get multisensory VR while comfortably sitting down. I have zero interest in stumbling around my living room while flailing about destroying ornaments and shit.
    You already have multisensory VR while sitting down. You need to clarify, because you could either mean comfortable seated VR experiences or something like a brain interface which would be a long ways off.

    Welcome to our forums!

    I nearly missed you with so many posts in one thread, but you are a new poster. Hopefully something other than VR piques your interest on here. :)
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,408
    edited June 2019
    Thank you, but I'm going to keep my Pimax 8K and its 170° FOV ;)
    When I'm using my headset, I want immersion, not binoculars.
    Now only if they can find a way to upgrade the colors and black levels!  I wont even go into the shitty housing....those my main concern with pimax tbh that and customer service.
    ultimateduck

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,408
    edited June 2019
    Asm0deus said:
    Thank you, but I'm going to keep my Pimax 8K and its 170° FOV ;)
    When I'm using my headset, I want immersion, not binoculars.
    Now only if they can find a way to upgrade the colors and black levels!  I wont even go into the shitty housing....those my main concern with pimax tbh that and customer service.
    I must have been lucky, I have zero problems with my device, and the housing has no cracks or defects. Black levels are just fine for a LCD screen, and the colors are ok on the 8K as opposed to the 5K which indeed has some problems in that aspect.

    Remember, minorities always use to be very vocal.

    And about the customer service, they accepted returns and replaced the supposedly defective devices.

    I personally would kickstart a Pimax product again, I have a 4K, and 8K and am a happy customer. Great products.
    Just go have a look at the cracked housing thread on the pimax forums, also if I read another thread about how Sally Huang is full of baloney when people contact pimax CS....

    Even some of the "Pimax is greatest bestest people" like heliosurge are starting to admit there's more of a problem than Pimax is admitting when it comes to the housing cracking issue and it is an issue.

    It's great you're not having any problems though, happy for you.  Sadly I think you are not in the majority you seem to think are.

    In fact the amount of people that did bother to go through getting their headsets replaced that got a new headset with cracks right out of the box is sad IMO.  That just those that bother to go through all the hassle as most are not convinced Pimax has fixed the issue yet.

    just saying that Pimax is going through some severe growing pains imo.
    Post edited by Asm0deus on

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,408
    edited June 2019
    Asm0deus said:
    imo.
    ...snip...
    No I am going based on the official forums and the people posting the good AND bad there.   You know kick starters like yourself.

    I think the Pimax has great potential but they need to fix some, frankly basic, issues first.  It's too bad you got all sore and defensive and had  to resort to basically calling me stupid because I am not kissing Pimax arse like you seem to be.

    Pimax has a truly great FOV but it has quite a few other issues that come along with it.  It's basically a give and take on what you prefer.

    I don't "spit" on any of the VR companies they are all doing good work which hopefully will help the tech move further along till we get a HMD that has great blacks, vivid colors AND a great FOV along with no SDE...right now though you kind of have to pick your poison.

    There's a good reason Pimax isn't as "mainstream" as say the vive/oculus headset and good luck finding a rental place that will carry it..there's also a reason for that.

    Frankly I seriously looked into getting thr 5k+ but decided to wait as there too many issues right now, kind of hoping their next attempt will be the one for me. To tide me over I might get an odyssey+ next time it's on a 299$ sale.

    That said I wasn't trying to piss on anyone's parade but like you say.... the internet breeds all kinds of stupid.  ;)

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,992
    edited June 2019
    Asm0deus said:
    Thank you, but I'm going to keep my Pimax 8K and its 170° FOV ;)
    When I'm using my headset, I want immersion, not binoculars.
    Now only if they can find a way to upgrade the colors and black levels!  I wont even go into the shitty housing....those my main concern with pimax tbh that and customer service.
    You see this would be my problem with VR, would it look better on my monitor and if so, how much better would it look? I would be playing for an hour with the set on then an hour with the set off, never being able to make up my mind. :)
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,180
    VR isn't going to find mass appeal, not now, not in the near future. If you look at how the entire industry of gaming is going, it's mobile. Not even mobile in the sense of phones (though thats the driving hardware)  but we've had some pretty stellar devices that are gearing stronger play in a mobile environment. 

    The switch is a great console geared for mobile, and Microsofts Surface Books are looking better to me with every new iteration. This series is supposed to have a 2060 in it, which is pretty decent for what is essentially a "tablet" style PC.  

    Regardless, one of the biggest "innovations" in the mobile space are the AR stickers and breakout AR games. While we're a few years from a standout consumer AR set, if you want to see a broader HMD revolution, it won't be in VR, it will be in that AR space. 
    Phaserlight



  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    Iselin said:
    Wake me up when I can get multisensory VR while comfortably sitting down. I have zero interest in stumbling around my living room while flailing about destroying ornaments and shit.
    When VR becomes this, then I'll be participating.


    At present it feels like something you'd find on the Wii.

    Iselin

    image
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,408
    edited June 2019
    I am hoping cyberpunk 2077 and vorpx will work well together kind of like this.











    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,992
    immodium said:
    Iselin said:
    Wake me up when I can get multisensory VR while comfortably sitting down. I have zero interest in stumbling around my living room while flailing about destroying ornaments and shit.
    When VR becomes this, then I'll be participating.


    At present it feels like something you'd find on the Wii.

    Brilliant, but then I am going to have to be the chosen one all over again. :)
    PhaserlightPhryTacticalZombeh
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,072

    SBFord said:

    I look at the inside of that unit, the part that goes over the eyes, and think to myself, "Nope. Nope. Nope." I believe(d) my grandmother when she said not to get anything that close to your eyes, including TV.



    Seriously, though, I'll just wait to see longitudinal studies on the effects of something that close to eyes and its effect on the brain before I sign on.



    Lastly, I like seeing and hearing the world around me. There's immersion and there's too much immersion, in my opinion. I prefer the former.





    tl;dw I'm sure some of you have seen this (in)famous presentation before... but according to this European PhD, action-oriented video games can actually improve your eyesight due to increased object tracking demands. Lots of other counter-intuitive findings contrary to what the older generation has told us.

    Not saying your intuition is wrong but... better not jump to conclusions.
    [Deleted User]

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,072

    Kniknax said:

    It's like no one here has tried the Quest.




    I'm not happy with Quest's walled-garden approach; VR as a whole needs a more open-source-minded philosophy in order to succeed. GearVR has some really good experiences that for whatever reason ...(ahem)



    ...

    didn't make it on to the Quest, ostensibly due to some Oculus officer's personal tastes. As such, I'm holding off for now. If Vendetta Online VR were available for it, I would buy.

    That stated, I really like the wireless inside-out tracking feature. Keeping a close eye on Vive Cosmos.
    [Deleted User]

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • rounnerrounner Member UncommonPosts: 725
    Why does everyone take such extreme positions with VR? Some people are basically saying until its perfect they wont touch it.

    Not trying to change opinions, I just don't understand the polarity and level of emotional baggage about what pedestal it is supposed to be sitting on.
    Asm0deusTacticalZombehultimateduck
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,072
    rounner said:
    Why does everyone take such extreme positions with VR? Some people are basically saying until its perfect they wont touch it.

    Not trying to change opinions, I just don't understand the polarity and level of emotional baggage about what pedestal it is supposed to be sitting on.
    I own GearVR and am pretty satisfied with it.  Not really happy with Oculus as a company right now for... various reasons, and that's a decent objection as a consumer when considering adoption.

    I am very bullish on the future of VR as a whole, as my post history will show.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,992
    edited June 2019

    SBFord said:

    I look at the inside of that unit, the part that goes over the eyes, and think to myself, "Nope. Nope. Nope." I believe(d) my grandmother when she said not to get anything that close to your eyes, including TV.



    Seriously, though, I'll just wait to see longitudinal studies on the effects of something that close to eyes and its effect on the brain before I sign on.



    Lastly, I like seeing and hearing the world around me. There's immersion and there's too much immersion, in my opinion. I prefer the former.





    tl;dw I'm sure some of you have seen this (in)famous presentation before... but according to this European PhD, action-oriented video games can actually improve your eyesight due to increased object tracking demands. Lots of other counter-intuitive findings contrary to what the older generation has told us.

    Not saying your intuition is wrong but... better not jump to conclusions.
    I think concerns are about VR not monitors, that presentation seemed to be all about games on monitors? Also when you say the "older generation" do you think an opinion or scientific study for that matter becomes dubious because its been around a while? I notice nothing in the presentation that refutes how tiring on the eyes monitors can be. So I am going to guess that both factors are in play, while what you are using a monitor for can help train you eyes, it still is more tiring for the muscles of the eye to maintain one focus for such long periods. They may well be other benefits and negatives mind you, I think hand eye co-ordination improves from gaming.
    PhaserlightPhry
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    rounner said:
    Why does everyone take such extreme positions with VR? Some people are basically saying until its perfect they wont touch it.

    Not trying to change opinions, I just don't understand the polarity and level of emotional baggage about what pedestal it is supposed to be sitting on.
    What is so extreme about wanting something that is trying to replace how we play games to be undeniably better than what we already have? VR today wants you to stand up and move your body around. The Wii already did that and although it was hugely popular for a while because of the novelty, that change in how you play games was more than anyone wanted so it was not taken up by anyone else and the novelty eventually died down.

    We want to sit in a comfortable chair or plop down on a couch to play games. Any new gaming tech that doesn't work with that as its basic premise and instead just offers that as a lesser option is fighting a losing battle.

    Better visuals? Great
    Better sound? Great
    Better input control? Great
    Additional sensory feedback? Great
    Get up out of your chair/couch and move around to get the full benefit? No thanks.

    Extreme to me is getting so caught up in the "wow this is so cool!" novelty factor that you fool yourself into thinking that yeah you actually do prefer to wear a helmet and walk around the room while you play games.
    immodiumScot
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,408
    edited June 2019
    Iselin said:
    rounner said:
    Why does everyone take such extreme positions with VR? Some people are basically saying until its perfect they wont touch it.

    Not trying to change opinions, I just don't understand the polarity and level of emotional baggage about what pedestal it is supposed to be sitting on.
    What is so extreme about wanting something that is trying to replace how we play games to be undeniably better than what we already have? VR today wants you to stand up and move your body around. The Wii already did that and although it was hugely popular for a while because of the novelty, that change in how you play games was more than anyone wanted so it was not taken up by anyone else and the novelty eventually died down.

    We want to sit in a comfortable chair or plop down on a couch to play games. Any new gaming tech that doesn't work with that as its basic premise and instead just offers that as a lesser option is fighting a losing battle.

    Better visuals? Great
    Better sound? Great
    Better input control? Great
    Additional sensory feedback? Great
    Get up out of your chair/couch and move around to get the full benefit? No thanks.

    Extreme to me is getting so caught up in the "wow this is so cool!" novelty factor that you fool yourself into thinking that yeah you actually do prefer to wear a helmet and walk around the room while you play games.
    All valid points but why do you think all VR demands you to get up and jump around a la  wii?

    It doesn't lots of simmers use VR in their simpits sitting down on their arses....

    Myself I want to be able to do both, I don't work physically like I used to do when I was younger so I want some games to play that actually get me up off my arse but I also want to play some more traditional game where I am sitting down on my couch.

    VR lets you do both.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Asm0deus said:
    Iselin said:
    rounner said:
    Why does everyone take such extreme positions with VR? Some people are basically saying until its perfect they wont touch it.

    Not trying to change opinions, I just don't understand the polarity and level of emotional baggage about what pedestal it is supposed to be sitting on.
    What is so extreme about wanting something that is trying to replace how we play games to be undeniably better than what we already have? VR today wants you to stand up and move your body around. The Wii already did that and although it was hugely popular for a while because of the novelty, that change in how you play games was more than anyone wanted so it was not taken up by anyone else and the novelty eventually died down.

    We want to sit in a comfortable chair or plop down on a couch to play games. Any new gaming tech that doesn't work with that as its basic premise and instead just offers that as a lesser option is fighting a losing battle.

    Better visuals? Great
    Better sound? Great
    Better input control? Great
    Additional sensory feedback? Great
    Get up out of your chair/couch and move around to get the full benefit? No thanks.

    Extreme to me is getting so caught up in the "wow this is so cool!" novelty factor that you fool yourself into thinking that yeah you actually do prefer to wear a helmet and walk around the room while you play games.
    All valid points but why do you think all VR demands you to get up and jump around a la  wii?

    It doesn't lots of simmers use VR in their simpits sitting down on their arses....

    Myself I want to be able to do both, I don't work physically like I used to do when I was younger so I want some games to play that actually get me up off my arse but I also want to play some more traditional game where I am sitting down on my couch.

    VR lets you do both.
    I know it lets you do both but sitting on your ass is not its design focus. You may have your own personal reasons for wanting to use it some of the time as a Wii Fit but I'm betting you the overwhelming majority of gamers may try that once or twice but they'll still want to sit on their ass for any serious gaming.

    The tech has to be built for that specifically to have mass appeal. That needs to be the focus not just an "oh yeah you can also use it sitting down kind of."

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,030
    Iselin said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Iselin said:
    rounner said:
    Why does everyone take such extreme positions with VR? Some people are basically saying until its perfect they wont touch it.

    Not trying to change opinions, I just don't understand the polarity and level of emotional baggage about what pedestal it is supposed to be sitting on.
    What is so extreme about wanting something that is trying to replace how we play games to be undeniably better than what we already have? VR today wants you to stand up and move your body around. The Wii already did that and although it was hugely popular for a while because of the novelty, that change in how you play games was more than anyone wanted so it was not taken up by anyone else and the novelty eventually died down.

    We want to sit in a comfortable chair or plop down on a couch to play games. Any new gaming tech that doesn't work with that as its basic premise and instead just offers that as a lesser option is fighting a losing battle.

    Better visuals? Great
    Better sound? Great
    Better input control? Great
    Additional sensory feedback? Great
    Get up out of your chair/couch and move around to get the full benefit? No thanks.

    Extreme to me is getting so caught up in the "wow this is so cool!" novelty factor that you fool yourself into thinking that yeah you actually do prefer to wear a helmet and walk around the room while you play games.
    All valid points but why do you think all VR demands you to get up and jump around a la  wii?

    It doesn't lots of simmers use VR in their simpits sitting down on their arses....

    Myself I want to be able to do both, I don't work physically like I used to do when I was younger so I want some games to play that actually get me up off my arse but I also want to play some more traditional game where I am sitting down on my couch.

    VR lets you do both.
    I know it lets you do both but sitting on your ass is not its design focus. You may have your own personal reasons for wanting to use it some of the time as a Wii Fit but I'm betting you the overwhelming majority of gamers may try that once or twice but they'll still want to sit on their ass for any serious gaming.

    The tech has to be built for that specifically to have mass appeal. That needs to be the focus not just an "oh yeah you can also use it sitting down kind of."

    Wow, complete and total ignorance.  Have you even played a VR game?  The vast majority can be played sitting, and in fact in a lot of cases that's the best way to play for any extended period of time. 

    Sounds to me like you're the type of person who wouldn't walk to the store even if it was one block away.
    Asm0deusultimateduck
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