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MMORPG.com : General : The Downfall of MMORPGs - TheHiveLeader

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  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 906
    If they add QoL that takes away important gameplay, and don't replace that gameplay in other ways, the game will eventually look like a thin piece of swiss cheese...

    If they add accessibility that takes away important gameplay, and don't replace that gameplay in other ways, the game will eventually look like a thin piece of swiss cheese... 

    If they add P2W that takes away important gameplay, and don't replace that gameplay in other ways, the game will eventually look like a thin piece of swiss cheese...

    Game play, game play, g4m3pl47, 01000111 01000001 01001101 01000101 01010000 01001100 01000001 01011001

    They get rid of it. They don't find interesting ways to replace it. They get "our" money either way.

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • AstropuyoAstropuyo Member UncommonPosts: 1,945
    We are the problem in general.
    The players.
    We are also dumb as hell to buy the same type game over and over again seeking something new.

    That's goddamned insanity right there.


    The genre as a whole has always been on a suicide run. Multiplayer communities in massive forms do not sustain they implode like a bunch of angry shit birds over the smallest of things and then go to war over it...for like 20 years plus...looking at you EQ classic guys here.

    It's the same cycle new decade.

    I just play simple shit now. PSO2 etc. Because expecting anything new from this genre now after it's been around 30+ years..I think that would be just be dumb.

    Like a wheel is a wheel man, doesn't matter what's it made of.
    Gdemami
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,188
    edited June 28
    Scot said:
    Visors = I'm saying to look at the online gaming progression as a whole, I would imagine Unreal and Quake sold more copies then Everquest  and other mmos of that era. THen add in the people who slowly went from fps online play and migrated into into mmo style games. 

    That is really what PC Gaming has become, migration into the next "thing"  it takes real anomalies like Fortnite, to bring in new players under the age of 18 like my nephews who can do things with an xbox controller in fornite that is just awe inspiring.  

    Later as this new generation of gamers get older they too will migrate into something else. 

    I agree about your take on the likes of Unreal and Quake, that was part of the player base Blizzard was looking to, as I mentioned there were a lot of solo players out there and MMO companies wanted them in their games. Blizzard showed a bit of leg and soloers flocked in, they became the majority of MMO players and the rest is history.
    SpottyGekko

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  • BobVaBobVa Member UncommonPosts: 125
    Of course is .. "us" , especially the whales and the ones who KS fraud projects, aka naive people .. 
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
    edited June 28
    DMKano said:
    What killed the MMORPG was the devaluation of rewards.

    Time.

    Time destroys all
    People really ignore this. When I was younger I could spend a lot of time playing, but now I'm almost in my 30s and I can't reliably spend so much time playing. Mmorpgs are very time consuming and that is where "devaluation of rewards" came from.

    Do I like things being so easy? Hell no! 
    Am I part of the "problem"? Eventually yes.

    When you grow older you'll understand.

    (Ps. I haven't played an mmorpg/mmo in months. There aren't any that interest me, so I'm sticking to single player games and co-op games with friends like monster hunter world until something interesting pops out)
    Kyleran

  • RemaliRemali Member UncommonPosts: 322
    Bloodaxes said:
    DMKano said:
    What killed the MMORPG was the devaluation of rewards.

    Time.

    Time destroys all
    People really ignore this. When I was younger I could spend a lot of time playing, but now I'm almost in my 30s and I can't reliably spend so much time playing. Mmorpgs are very time consuming and that is where "devaluation of rewards" came from.

    Do I like things being so easy? Hell no! 
    Am I part of the "problem"? Eventually yes.

    When you grow older you'll understand.

    (Ps. I haven't played an mmorpg/mmo in months. There aren't any that interest me, so I'm sticking to single player games and co-op games with friends like monster hunter world until something interesting pops out)


    Yes you got older so did I but there are loads of ppl in there 20s to replace us I don't think that's the problem there are a lot more young gamers now than when I was young myself and gaming was considered geek.Now its e-sports huge difference

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,488
    edited June 28
    Sorry but i got to call call shenanigans on this post, i played a lot of mmorpgs, maybe not as much as some, But i never seen the Dev's change the core play of any MMORPG

    PS: Stop the We We i am not french, and i always payed for subs. if i didnt like the game i moved on.
    Wait,  wut? DAOC when they added mandatory PVE raiding in TOA to an RVR centric game,  SWG and the infamous NGE, WOW when it decided 40 man raids were too much and its continual simplification to the point millions are clamoring for a classic version all immediately come to mind.

    The Secret World closed and relaunched in a slimmed down version, same for FFXIV, one of the most successful (perhaps only?) revamps. Darkfall closed and relaunched as DFO...and closed again, and both versions relaunched again by different owners.

    ESO introduced One Tameril, a far cry different from its original level based, zone approach.





    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 247
    Kyleran said:
    Sorry but i got to call call shenanigans on this post, i played a lot of mmorpgs, maybe not as much as some, But i never seen the Dev's change the core play of any MMORPG

    PS: Stop the We We i am not french, and i always payed for subs. if i didnt like the game i moved on.
    Wait,  wut? DAOC when they added mandatory PVE raiding in TOA to an RVR centric game,  SWG and the infamous NGE, WOW when it decided 40 man raids were too much and its continual simplification to the point millions are clamoring for a classic version all immediately come to mind.

    The Secret World closed and relaunched in a slimmed down version, same for FFXIV, one of the most successful (perhaps only?) revamps. Darkfall closed and relaunched as DFO...and closed again, and both versions relaunched again by different owners.

    ESO introduced One Tameril, a far cry different from its original level based, zone approach.





     I can go through point by point and argue but i wont.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,488
    Kyleran said:
    Sorry but i got to call call shenanigans on this post, i played a lot of mmorpgs, maybe not as much as some, But i never seen the Dev's change the core play of any MMORPG

    PS: Stop the We We i am not french, and i always payed for subs. if i didnt like the game i moved on.
    Wait,  wut? DAOC when they added mandatory PVE raiding in TOA to an RVR centric game,  SWG and the infamous NGE, WOW when it decided 40 man raids were too much and its continual simplification to the point millions are clamoring for a classic version all immediately come to mind.

    The Secret World closed and relaunched in a slimmed down version, same for FFXIV, one of the most successful (perhaps only?) revamps. Darkfall closed and relaunched as DFO...and closed again, and both versions relaunched again by different owners.

    ESO introduced One Tameril, a far cry different from its original level based, zone approach.





     I can go through point by point and argue but i wont.
    Thanks, would be useless to argue against the facts 
    ScotGdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,188
    Kyleran said:
    Sorry but i got to call call shenanigans on this post, i played a lot of mmorpgs, maybe not as much as some, But i never seen the Dev's change the core play of any MMORPG

    PS: Stop the We We i am not french, and i always payed for subs. if i didnt like the game i moved on.
    Wait,  wut? DAOC when they added mandatory PVE raiding in TOA to an RVR centric game,  SWG and the infamous NGE, WOW when it decided 40 man raids were too much and its continual simplification to the point millions are clamoring for a classic version all immediately come to mind.

    The Secret World closed and relaunched in a slimmed down version, same for FFXIV, one of the most successful (perhaps only?) revamps. Darkfall closed and relaunched as DFO...and closed again, and both versions relaunched again by different owners.

    ESO introduced One Tameril, a far cry different from its original level based, zone approach.

    First they tell us it is all our fault MMORPG's have changed, now they tell us they haven't changed; this thread is getting better and better. :D

     25 Agrees

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,488
    Bloodaxes said:
    DMKano said:
    What killed the MMORPG was the devaluation of rewards.

    Time.

    Time destroys all
    People really ignore this. When I was younger I could spend a lot of time playing, but now I'm almost in my 30s and I can't reliably spend so much time playing. Mmorpgs are very time consuming and that is where "devaluation of rewards" came from.

    Do I like things being so easy? Hell no! 
    Am I part of the "problem"? Eventually yes.

    When you grow older you'll understand.

    (Ps. I haven't played an mmorpg/mmo in months. There aren't any that interest me, so I'm sticking to single player games and co-op games with friends like monster hunter world until something interesting pops out)
    I "started" playing MMORPGs in my mid 40s.  Being a working family man it meant I could never spend a lot of time playing games, yet I enjoyed the content that I could regardless.

    Now the children are grown and gone I have more time (except for the day job) yet  there's no MMORPGs with designs of interest to me.

    I would welcome a return to gameplay which requires two or three hour sessions,  always felt that was the proper timeslice devs should have stuck with and not boiled everything down into 20 minute bits.

    When you get older you'll understand.

    :D


    Existentialist

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 247
    Saying the players of an mmo are responsible for the downfall of mmo's is like saying a  grunt G.I is  responsible WW2
    ScotOctagon7711
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
    Kyleran said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    DMKano said:
    What killed the MMORPG was the devaluation of rewards.

    Time.

    Time destroys all
    People really ignore this. When I was younger I could spend a lot of time playing, but now I'm almost in my 30s and I can't reliably spend so much time playing. Mmorpgs are very time consuming and that is where "devaluation of rewards" came from.

    Do I like things being so easy? Hell no! 
    Am I part of the "problem"? Eventually yes.

    When you grow older you'll understand.

    (Ps. I haven't played an mmorpg/mmo in months. There aren't any that interest me, so I'm sticking to single player games and co-op games with friends like monster hunter world until something interesting pops out)
    I "started" playing MMORPGs in my mid 40s.  Being a working family man it meant I could never spend a lot of time playing games, yet I enjoyed the content that I could regardless.

    Now the children are grown and gone I have more time (except for the day job) yet  there's no MMORPGs with designs of interest to me.

    I would welcome a return to gameplay which requires two or three hour sessions,  always felt that was the proper timeslice devs should have stuck with and not boiled everything down into 20 minute bits.

    When you get older you'll understand.

    :D
    Well, you must really have an understanding wife to let you play for so long :P 

    Jokes aside, my main problem with recent mmorpgs is not everything being "easy" or "quick 20 minute bits" but more on being "forced" to login. Many mmorpgs have a tendency with enticing players to do "chores" in game to get some goodies. If you don't you'll fall behind which sucks. 
    Kyleran

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,188
    Bloodaxes said:
    Kyleran said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    DMKano said:
    What killed the MMORPG was the devaluation of rewards.

    Time.

    Time destroys all
    People really ignore this. When I was younger I could spend a lot of time playing, but now I'm almost in my 30s and I can't reliably spend so much time playing. Mmorpgs are very time consuming and that is where "devaluation of rewards" came from.

    Do I like things being so easy? Hell no! 
    Am I part of the "problem"? Eventually yes.

    When you grow older you'll understand.

    (Ps. I haven't played an mmorpg/mmo in months. There aren't any that interest me, so I'm sticking to single player games and co-op games with friends like monster hunter world until something interesting pops out)
    I "started" playing MMORPGs in my mid 40s.  Being a working family man it meant I could never spend a lot of time playing games, yet I enjoyed the content that I could regardless.

    Now the children are grown and gone I have more time (except for the day job) yet  there's no MMORPGs with designs of interest to me.

    I would welcome a return to gameplay which requires two or three hour sessions,  always felt that was the proper timeslice devs should have stuck with and not boiled everything down into 20 minute bits.

    When you get older you'll understand.

    :D
    Well, you must really have an understanding wife to let you play for so long :P 

    Jokes aside, my main problem with recent mmorpgs is not everything being "easy" or "quick 20 minute bits" but more on being "forced" to login. Many mmorpgs have a tendency with enticing players to do "chores" in game to get some goodies. If you don't you'll fall behind which sucks. 
    They have replaced needing to be online every week for a few hours in a sitting to being online half an hour every day. Supposedly this is better, well I guess it was for Pavlov's dogs too. :)
    Kyleran

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,012
    edited June 28
    Kyleran said:
    Sorry but i got to call call shenanigans on this post, i played a lot of mmorpgs, maybe not as much as some, But i never seen the Dev's change the core play of any MMORPG

    PS: Stop the We We i am not french, and i always payed for subs. if i didnt like the game i moved on.
    Wait,  wut? DAOC when they added mandatory PVE raiding in TOA to an RVR centric game,  SWG and the infamous NGE, WOW when it decided 40 man raids were too much and its continual simplification to the point millions are clamoring for a classic version all immediately come to mind.

    The Secret World closed and relaunched in a slimmed down version, same for FFXIV, one of the most successful (perhaps only?) revamps. Darkfall closed and relaunched as DFO...and closed again, and both versions relaunched again by different owners.

    ESO introduced One Tameril, a far cry different from its original level based, zone approach.
    What's interesting is that I can't recall DaoC players wishing for mandatory PvE raiding, I don't recall swg players asking for NGE and WoW raiders never asked for 25 man raids.

    Most players asking for classic raiding never ventured deep into AQ40 and naxxramas, instead they played very simple tank and spank content, meaning what they really want is the simplified raiding that existed in wow classic.

    The reason WoW got 25 man raids was because developers had a really hard time making interesting encounters for 40 man. As a result encounters got more interesting and raid groups could get rid of a lot of filler that they had to bring just to have 40 man sized groups.
    Gdemami
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    The answer is very simple - the solo content. You can play any multiplayer content solo, or at least to kill your character trying it. But you cannot play the solo content multiplayer. The solo content is single-player. Also the solo content makes the multiplayer content pointless in general. The players play for the rewards. If you can take the same rewards alone, why shall you play with the others? At the same time the point of the existence of the MMOs are the competition and the cooperation among the players. So the people are there to play with other people in general, but in the game they play for the rewards.

    What is the result of the solo content - the competition and the cooperation became optional. The games became easy, as mobs are made to be beaten, and the mobs for the solo player are easier. The games became in general pointless, as the competition and the cooperation do not affect the character progression. Most players get rewards to become competitive, but the competition is meaningless, as it does not really affect the game. So the players go into games where the gameplay have some sense like LoL. There is not solo content.
    Scot
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,154
    I don't know why people keep talking like wow or companies cloning wow is the problem.

    The problem is all those companies not cloning wow keep failing.  

    In fact there are decent amount of wow clone which are doing well(gw2, eso, ff14 etc).

    And there are so many mmorpg, why do we need to keep making more and more.  People do realize if everyone keep chasing new mmorpg, old one dies right?  Which sum up why developer stop wanting to make new mmorpg because it most likely die very fast.


    Gdemamibenaniel
  • jonp200jonp200 Member UncommonPosts: 453
    I agree. Spot-on

    Seaspite
    Playing ESO on my X-Box


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,450
    AAAMEOW said:
    I don't know why people keep talking like wow or companies cloning wow is the problem.

    The problem is all those companies not cloning wow keep failing.  

    In fact there are decent amount of wow clone which are doing well(gw2, eso, ff14 etc).

    And there are so many mmorpg, why do we need to keep making more and more.  People do realize if everyone keep chasing new mmorpg, old one dies right?  Which sum up why developer stop wanting to make new mmorpg because it most likely die very fast.


    I don't think Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy 14 are World of Warcraft clones.

    Aion? IN the style of World of Warcraft
    Lord of the Rings Online? In the style of World of Warcraft
    Rift? sure ... etc, etc


    Gdemami



  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    Sovrath said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I don't know why people keep talking like wow or companies cloning wow is the problem.

    The problem is all those companies not cloning wow keep failing.  

    In fact there are decent amount of wow clone which are doing well(gw2, eso, ff14 etc).

    And there are so many mmorpg, why do we need to keep making more and more.  People do realize if everyone keep chasing new mmorpg, old one dies right?  Which sum up why developer stop wanting to make new mmorpg because it most likely die very fast.


    I don't think Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy 14 are World of Warcraft clones.

    Aion? IN the style of World of Warcraft
    Lord of the Rings Online? In the style of World of Warcraft
    Rift? sure ... etc, etc
    Well Aion is in the style of WoW. It was an attempt for solo focused MMO. Often it is called the Asian WoW.
  • AllerleirauhAllerleirauh Member UncommonPosts: 496
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    Currently Playing: Path of Exile

    "I have found a desire within myself that no experience in this world can satisfy; the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." ~ C. S. Lewis
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,488
    Shaigh said:
    Kyleran said:
    Sorry but i got to call call shenanigans on this post, i played a lot of mmorpgs, maybe not as much as some, But i never seen the Dev's change the core play of any MMORPG

    PS: Stop the We We i am not french, and i always payed for subs. if i didnt like the game i moved on.
    Wait,  wut? DAOC when they added mandatory PVE raiding in TOA to an RVR centric game,  SWG and the infamous NGE, WOW when it decided 40 man raids were too much and its continual simplification to the point millions are clamoring for a classic version all immediately come to mind.

    The Secret World closed and relaunched in a slimmed down version, same for FFXIV, one of the most successful (perhaps only?) revamps. Darkfall closed and relaunched as DFO...and closed again, and both versions relaunched again by different owners.

    ESO introduced One Tameril, a far cry different from its original level based, zone approach.
    What's interesting is that I can't recall DaoC players wishing for mandatory PvE raiding, I don't recall swg players asking for NGE and WoW raiders never asked for 25 man raids.

    Most players asking for classic raiding never ventured deep into AQ40 and naxxramas, instead they played very simple tank and spank content, meaning what they really want is the simplified raiding that existed in wow classic.

    The reason WoW got 25 man raids was because developers had a really hard time making interesting encounters for 40 man. As a result encounters got more interesting and raid groups could get rid of a lot of filler that they had to bring just to have 40 man sized groups.
    Well, they all were trying to broaden their designs to appeal to a larger playerbase but except for WOW and FFXIV most drove off many of their original players resulting in a net loss instead. 

    CCP did it better than most for quite a few years, adding new functionality which steadily expanded the playerbase until the wheels came off around the time of the 'monacle-gate' monetization fiasco.


    Scot

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • WarEnsembleWarEnsemble Member UncommonPosts: 239
    All in all, I have played the same MMO for the past ~20 years and will continue to do so until DayBreak finally runs it into the ground for good.
    Sovrath
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 247
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
    cheeba
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