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MMORPG.com : General : The Downfall of MMORPGs - TheHiveLeader

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,632
    Kyleran said:
    Sorry but i got to call call shenanigans on this post, i played a lot of mmorpgs, maybe not as much as some, But i never seen the Dev's change the core play of any MMORPG

    PS: Stop the We We i am not french, and i always payed for subs. if i didnt like the game i moved on.
    Wait,  wut? DAOC when they added mandatory PVE raiding in TOA to an RVR centric game,  SWG and the infamous NGE, WOW when it decided 40 man raids were too much and its continual simplification to the point millions are clamoring for a classic version all immediately come to mind.

    The Secret World closed and relaunched in a slimmed down version, same for FFXIV, one of the most successful (perhaps only?) revamps. Darkfall closed and relaunched as DFO...and closed again, and both versions relaunched again by different owners.

    ESO introduced One Tameril, a far cry different from its original level based, zone approach.





     I can go through point by point and argue but i wont.
    Thanks, would be useless to argue against the facts 
    ScotGdemami

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,282
    Kyleran said:
    Sorry but i got to call call shenanigans on this post, i played a lot of mmorpgs, maybe not as much as some, But i never seen the Dev's change the core play of any MMORPG

    PS: Stop the We We i am not french, and i always payed for subs. if i didnt like the game i moved on.
    Wait,  wut? DAOC when they added mandatory PVE raiding in TOA to an RVR centric game,  SWG and the infamous NGE, WOW when it decided 40 man raids were too much and its continual simplification to the point millions are clamoring for a classic version all immediately come to mind.

    The Secret World closed and relaunched in a slimmed down version, same for FFXIV, one of the most successful (perhaps only?) revamps. Darkfall closed and relaunched as DFO...and closed again, and both versions relaunched again by different owners.

    ESO introduced One Tameril, a far cry different from its original level based, zone approach.

    First they tell us it is all our fault MMORPG's have changed, now they tell us they haven't changed; this thread is getting better and better. :D
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,632
    Bloodaxes said:
    DMKano said:
    What killed the MMORPG was the devaluation of rewards.

    Time.

    Time destroys all
    People really ignore this. When I was younger I could spend a lot of time playing, but now I'm almost in my 30s and I can't reliably spend so much time playing. Mmorpgs are very time consuming and that is where "devaluation of rewards" came from.

    Do I like things being so easy? Hell no! 
    Am I part of the "problem"? Eventually yes.

    When you grow older you'll understand.

    (Ps. I haven't played an mmorpg/mmo in months. There aren't any that interest me, so I'm sticking to single player games and co-op games with friends like monster hunter world until something interesting pops out)
    I "started" playing MMORPGs in my mid 40s.  Being a working family man it meant I could never spend a lot of time playing games, yet I enjoyed the content that I could regardless.

    Now the children are grown and gone I have more time (except for the day job) yet  there's no MMORPGs with designs of interest to me.

    I would welcome a return to gameplay which requires two or three hour sessions,  always felt that was the proper timeslice devs should have stuck with and not boiled everything down into 20 minute bits.

    When you get older you'll understand.

    :D


    Existentialist

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 247
    Saying the players of an mmo are responsible for the downfall of mmo's is like saying a  grunt G.I is  responsible WW2
    ScotOctagon7711
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,626
    Kyleran said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    DMKano said:
    What killed the MMORPG was the devaluation of rewards.

    Time.

    Time destroys all
    People really ignore this. When I was younger I could spend a lot of time playing, but now I'm almost in my 30s and I can't reliably spend so much time playing. Mmorpgs are very time consuming and that is where "devaluation of rewards" came from.

    Do I like things being so easy? Hell no! 
    Am I part of the "problem"? Eventually yes.

    When you grow older you'll understand.

    (Ps. I haven't played an mmorpg/mmo in months. There aren't any that interest me, so I'm sticking to single player games and co-op games with friends like monster hunter world until something interesting pops out)
    I "started" playing MMORPGs in my mid 40s.  Being a working family man it meant I could never spend a lot of time playing games, yet I enjoyed the content that I could regardless.

    Now the children are grown and gone I have more time (except for the day job) yet  there's no MMORPGs with designs of interest to me.

    I would welcome a return to gameplay which requires two or three hour sessions,  always felt that was the proper timeslice devs should have stuck with and not boiled everything down into 20 minute bits.

    When you get older you'll understand.

    :D
    Well, you must really have an understanding wife to let you play for so long :P 

    Jokes aside, my main problem with recent mmorpgs is not everything being "easy" or "quick 20 minute bits" but more on being "forced" to login. Many mmorpgs have a tendency with enticing players to do "chores" in game to get some goodies. If you don't you'll fall behind which sucks. 
    Kyleran

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,282
    Bloodaxes said:
    Kyleran said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    DMKano said:
    What killed the MMORPG was the devaluation of rewards.

    Time.

    Time destroys all
    People really ignore this. When I was younger I could spend a lot of time playing, but now I'm almost in my 30s and I can't reliably spend so much time playing. Mmorpgs are very time consuming and that is where "devaluation of rewards" came from.

    Do I like things being so easy? Hell no! 
    Am I part of the "problem"? Eventually yes.

    When you grow older you'll understand.

    (Ps. I haven't played an mmorpg/mmo in months. There aren't any that interest me, so I'm sticking to single player games and co-op games with friends like monster hunter world until something interesting pops out)
    I "started" playing MMORPGs in my mid 40s.  Being a working family man it meant I could never spend a lot of time playing games, yet I enjoyed the content that I could regardless.

    Now the children are grown and gone I have more time (except for the day job) yet  there's no MMORPGs with designs of interest to me.

    I would welcome a return to gameplay which requires two or three hour sessions,  always felt that was the proper timeslice devs should have stuck with and not boiled everything down into 20 minute bits.

    When you get older you'll understand.

    :D
    Well, you must really have an understanding wife to let you play for so long :P 

    Jokes aside, my main problem with recent mmorpgs is not everything being "easy" or "quick 20 minute bits" but more on being "forced" to login. Many mmorpgs have a tendency with enticing players to do "chores" in game to get some goodies. If you don't you'll fall behind which sucks. 
    They have replaced needing to be online every week for a few hours in a sitting to being online half an hour every day. Supposedly this is better, well I guess it was for Pavlov's dogs too. :)
    Kyleran
  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,100
    edited June 2019
    Kyleran said:
    Sorry but i got to call call shenanigans on this post, i played a lot of mmorpgs, maybe not as much as some, But i never seen the Dev's change the core play of any MMORPG

    PS: Stop the We We i am not french, and i always payed for subs. if i didnt like the game i moved on.
    Wait,  wut? DAOC when they added mandatory PVE raiding in TOA to an RVR centric game,  SWG and the infamous NGE, WOW when it decided 40 man raids were too much and its continual simplification to the point millions are clamoring for a classic version all immediately come to mind.

    The Secret World closed and relaunched in a slimmed down version, same for FFXIV, one of the most successful (perhaps only?) revamps. Darkfall closed and relaunched as DFO...and closed again, and both versions relaunched again by different owners.

    ESO introduced One Tameril, a far cry different from its original level based, zone approach.
    What's interesting is that I can't recall DaoC players wishing for mandatory PvE raiding, I don't recall swg players asking for NGE and WoW raiders never asked for 25 man raids.

    Most players asking for classic raiding never ventured deep into AQ40 and naxxramas, instead they played very simple tank and spank content, meaning what they really want is the simplified raiding that existed in wow classic.

    The reason WoW got 25 man raids was because developers had a really hard time making interesting encounters for 40 man. As a result encounters got more interesting and raid groups could get rid of a lot of filler that they had to bring just to have 40 man sized groups.
    Gdemami
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    The answer is very simple - the solo content. You can play any multiplayer content solo, or at least to kill your character trying it. But you cannot play the solo content multiplayer. The solo content is single-player. Also the solo content makes the multiplayer content pointless in general. The players play for the rewards. If you can take the same rewards alone, why shall you play with the others? At the same time the point of the existence of the MMOs are the competition and the cooperation among the players. So the people are there to play with other people in general, but in the game they play for the rewards.

    What is the result of the solo content - the competition and the cooperation became optional. The games became easy, as mobs are made to be beaten, and the mobs for the solo player are easier. The games became in general pointless, as the competition and the cooperation do not affect the character progression. Most players get rewards to become competitive, but the competition is meaningless, as it does not really affect the game. So the players go into games where the gameplay have some sense like LoL. There is not solo content.
    Scot
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,482
    I don't know why people keep talking like wow or companies cloning wow is the problem.

    The problem is all those companies not cloning wow keep failing.  

    In fact there are decent amount of wow clone which are doing well(gw2, eso, ff14 etc).

    And there are so many mmorpg, why do we need to keep making more and more.  People do realize if everyone keep chasing new mmorpg, old one dies right?  Which sum up why developer stop wanting to make new mmorpg because it most likely die very fast.


    Gdemamibenaniel
  • jonp200jonp200 Member UncommonPosts: 457
    I agree. Spot-on

    Seaspite
    Playing ESO on my X-Box


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,162
    AAAMEOW said:
    I don't know why people keep talking like wow or companies cloning wow is the problem.

    The problem is all those companies not cloning wow keep failing.  

    In fact there are decent amount of wow clone which are doing well(gw2, eso, ff14 etc).

    And there are so many mmorpg, why do we need to keep making more and more.  People do realize if everyone keep chasing new mmorpg, old one dies right?  Which sum up why developer stop wanting to make new mmorpg because it most likely die very fast.


    I don't think Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy 14 are World of Warcraft clones.

    Aion? IN the style of World of Warcraft
    Lord of the Rings Online? In the style of World of Warcraft
    Rift? sure ... etc, etc


    Gdemami
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    Sovrath said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I don't know why people keep talking like wow or companies cloning wow is the problem.

    The problem is all those companies not cloning wow keep failing.  

    In fact there are decent amount of wow clone which are doing well(gw2, eso, ff14 etc).

    And there are so many mmorpg, why do we need to keep making more and more.  People do realize if everyone keep chasing new mmorpg, old one dies right?  Which sum up why developer stop wanting to make new mmorpg because it most likely die very fast.


    I don't think Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy 14 are World of Warcraft clones.

    Aion? IN the style of World of Warcraft
    Lord of the Rings Online? In the style of World of Warcraft
    Rift? sure ... etc, etc
    Well Aion is in the style of WoW. It was an attempt for solo focused MMO. Often it is called the Asian WoW.
  • AllerleirauhAllerleirauh Member UncommonPosts: 496
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    Currently Playing: Path of Exile

    "I have found a desire within myself that no experience in this world can satisfy; the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." ~ C. S. Lewis
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,632
    Shaigh said:
    Kyleran said:
    Sorry but i got to call call shenanigans on this post, i played a lot of mmorpgs, maybe not as much as some, But i never seen the Dev's change the core play of any MMORPG

    PS: Stop the We We i am not french, and i always payed for subs. if i didnt like the game i moved on.
    Wait,  wut? DAOC when they added mandatory PVE raiding in TOA to an RVR centric game,  SWG and the infamous NGE, WOW when it decided 40 man raids were too much and its continual simplification to the point millions are clamoring for a classic version all immediately come to mind.

    The Secret World closed and relaunched in a slimmed down version, same for FFXIV, one of the most successful (perhaps only?) revamps. Darkfall closed and relaunched as DFO...and closed again, and both versions relaunched again by different owners.

    ESO introduced One Tameril, a far cry different from its original level based, zone approach.
    What's interesting is that I can't recall DaoC players wishing for mandatory PvE raiding, I don't recall swg players asking for NGE and WoW raiders never asked for 25 man raids.

    Most players asking for classic raiding never ventured deep into AQ40 and naxxramas, instead they played very simple tank and spank content, meaning what they really want is the simplified raiding that existed in wow classic.

    The reason WoW got 25 man raids was because developers had a really hard time making interesting encounters for 40 man. As a result encounters got more interesting and raid groups could get rid of a lot of filler that they had to bring just to have 40 man sized groups.
    Well, they all were trying to broaden their designs to appeal to a larger playerbase but except for WOW and FFXIV most drove off many of their original players resulting in a net loss instead. 

    CCP did it better than most for quite a few years, adding new functionality which steadily expanded the playerbase until the wheels came off around the time of the 'monacle-gate' monetization fiasco.


    Scot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • WarEnsembleWarEnsemble Member UncommonPosts: 252
    All in all, I have played the same MMO for the past ~20 years and will continue to do so until DayBreak finally runs it into the ground for good.
    Sovrath
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 247
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
    cheeba
  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 247
    edited June 2019
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's



  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,292
    edited June 2019
    ikcin said:
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
    The portion of gamers that want to invest the extra time and dedication for an MMORPG has always been and will always be a small subset of the game playing public. The vast majority want to play quick matches and that is exactly what LOL and Fornite give them. 

    All that has really happened recently is that the number of people who play games has mushroomed exponentially compared to those who played at the turn of the century but most of those are casual gamers who wouldn't know an MMORPG if one bit them on the ass.

    Some of that new blood however do play MMORPGs so the numbers today is actually at an all time high. If you want to call that a decline because the numbers are dwarfed by the Fortnite or LOL numbers, so be it, but you're actually wrong.

    The only decline in MMORPGs is in studios not wanting to go through the hassle and risk of developing a new one when they can make so much more money with less risk slapping together an FPS, BR or MOBA.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,600
    Kyleran said:
    Nilden said:
    The devs are to blame as well... *shows Anthem gameplay*

    Yeah that's when I stopped the video.

    NOT A MMO.

    Seriously you can't even make a video about the downfall of MMOs without including non-MMOs.

    /slowclap
    "I'd rather argue about what is or isn't an MMO than the actual point of the video."

    /slowclap
    The inability of the gaming press and consumers to properly distinguish what is or is not a MMO is a significant factor in the genre's overall decline.

    To take liberty with a quote by Syndrome, "if every game is a MMO, then none will be."

    Besides, who watches videos, summarize your points in a proper forum post which can be addressed or I'll just have to go with my own script.

    Everybody wants to be a streamer,  get a real job folks.

    ;)


    Man, I remember a few years ago getting into a big spat right here on this board about what is or isn't an MMO. The term has gotten stretched out badly today.
    KyleranPhaserlight
  • RemaliRemali Member RarePosts: 689
    @jeeshadow Its only natural my friend we are all human beings with different tastes that's why I always laugh when some ppl demand others to play their own way.. the Right way lol
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    edited June 2019
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
    The portion of gamers that want to invest the extra time and dedication for an MMORPG has always been and will always be a small subset of the game playing public. The vast majority want to play quick matches and that is exactly what LOL and Fornite give them. 

    All that has really happened recently is that the number of people who play games has mushroomed exponentially compared to those who played at the turn of the century but most of those are casual gamers who wouldn't know an MMORPG if one bit them on the ass.

    Some of that new blood however do play MMORPGs so the numbers today is actually at an all time high. If you want to call that a decline because the numbers are dwarfed by the Fortnite or LOL numbers, so be it, but you're actually wrong.

    The only decline in MMORPGs is in studios not wanting to go through the hassle and risk of developing a new one when they can make so much more money with less risk slapping together an FPS, BR or MOBA.
    In fact the MMORPG market is smaller now then it was few years ago. Maybe the only declining niche if we are talking about online games. Also most players spend hours in LoL. So you cannot blame the gamers. MMORPGs are crap. There is a game called Drakensang, which gives all WoW has. A browser game. This is the quality of the MMORPGs now. 

    Open world, immersive play, competition, cooperation, long term goals for wars and politics. That should be the MMORPG. Instead we have broken, solo focused games, where the only long term goal is to reach max level and gear with a solo character. This is the legacy of WoW. And any moba or FPS is much better.
    Gdemami
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited June 2019
    An excercise in bad reasoning:

    1) make up a conlcusion
    2) look for arguments that could support that conclusion
    Post edited by Gdemami on
    [Deleted User]
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,292
    edited June 2019
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
    The portion of gamers that want to invest the extra time and dedication for an MMORPG has always been and will always be a small subset of the game playing public. The vast majority want to play quick matches and that is exactly what LOL and Fornite give them. 

    All that has really happened recently is that the number of people who play games has mushroomed exponentially compared to those who played at the turn of the century but most of those are casual gamers who wouldn't know an MMORPG if one bit them on the ass.

    Some of that new blood however do play MMORPGs so the numbers today is actually at an all time high. If you want to call that a decline because the numbers are dwarfed by the Fortnite or LOL numbers, so be it, but you're actually wrong.

    The only decline in MMORPGs is in studios not wanting to go through the hassle and risk of developing a new one when they can make so much more money with less risk slapping together an FPS, BR or MOBA.
    In fact the MMORPG market is smaller now then it was few years ago. Maybe the only declining niche if we are talking about online games. Also most players spend hours in LoL. So you cannot blame the gamers. MMORPGs are crap. There is a game called Drakensang, which gives all WoW has. A browser game. This is the quality of the MMORPGs now. 

    Open world, immersive play, competition, cooperation, long term goals for wars and politics. That should be the MMORPG. Instead we have broken, solo focused games, where the only long term goal is to reach max level and gear with a solo character. This is the legacy of WoW. And any moba or FPS is much better.
    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    Torval
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

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