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Raids

svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,186
Monthly update mentions raids.  Is that new news or something that was previously announced?

Comments

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,527
    edited June 19
    I only know what they say in the FAQ (which may be in need of an update):

    "Yes, there will be Raid content in Pantheon. That said, the majority of content is being designed for grouping, with the remainder for soloing or raiding."

    "Pantheon is not primarily a raiding game, though we know many in our community enjoy raiding. Same with soloing -- it is not Pantheon's focus, but some people like to solo occasionally. Also, there is no reason why we couldn't have, say, level 20 or level 30 raids."

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • BazgrimTVBazgrimTV Member UncommonPosts: 15
    edited June 20
    As quoted in the FAQ above, it's been known for a while that there would be raids in Pantheon. But it's mentioned in the newsletter because they are very close to completing their first full raid encounter. Although they might just demo it as a single group encounter first. In which case, we probably wouldn't see footage of a raid until Alpha.
    KumaponAmatheArterius
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,238
    Boss battles are in all EQ style MMORPGs, from the very beginning.

    And thats all that raids really are, they are boss battles.



    I wonder if they will manage to make Pantheons raids as challenging as Vanguards raids. In Vanguard, you really valued every class, because they all had unique abilities. From memory, no guarantee its all correct, Vanguard is after all gone since 5 years by now:

    - Paladin: Probably best tank class overall, with highest aggro. Mandatory for certain fights, since they've been immune to fear. Btw they said they've given Warrior and Dread Knight immunity to fear but at least on my DK that didnt work, I still got massively debuffed.

    - Warrior: best dps tank (important in timed fights). IIRC they've been the best with group aggro, but it might have been the other way around.

    - Dread Knight: Definitely less aggro than the other two tank classes, but still good enough tanking. You just had to wait a bit longer on dps classes before going all out on a DK. Best single debuff in the game (Dreadful Countenance). Able to Dispel (and that worked surprisingly well, too). Also noteworthy: only class that ever managed to solo a raidboss (Jagund the Wavebreaker). Was only possible because the boss was for original maxlevel 50, but maxlevel had been raised to 55 at that time, and that boss had summons which could be tapped for life so the DK had a source for healing.

    - Rogue: best physical dps, or supposed to be (see bard). Can push aggro to the tank. They might have more features but Rogue was played so rarely I'm not sure I ever had one in a raid. And in seven years playing I am fairly sure the fingers of one hand are sufficient to count the times I had one in my group.

    - Bard: best group buffer, to the degree that you absolutely wanted one per group, in every of the 3 or 4 groups of the raid force. Great dps by themselves (at some times best dps in the game). IIRC able to Dispel, but they had otherwise no reason to max Int, so their Dispel sucked.

    - Ranger: best stance kicker.

    - Monk: best puller (best Fake Death), can surive raid wipes (Fake Death), second best stance kicker (still good enough), can push aggro to the tank. All in all they rocket hard.

    - Cleric: class unique healing abilities, as with the other healer types. You wanted each type of healer in your raid to maximize the effective hitpoint reserves of the tanks. Clerics specifically could heal almost all of the hitpoints of a tank in an instant; essential for certain fights. Compared to other healers, they had trouble with keeping their mana up though. Unique abilities in the subclasses, too, for example my Death Cleric had a strong 20% accuracy debuff for raid bosses not available to other Cleric subclasses.

    - Shaman: unique healing abilities, unique buffs, and all three variants of shaman had unique abilities, so you basically wanted all three of them. For example Bear Shaman got a Endurance Regen buff all endurance users absolutley wanted, and Phoenix Shaman got a Mana Regen buff that all spellcasters longed to get.

    - Disciple: manaless healing. Great dps too. Neither stance kicking nor their Fake Death was useful in raids, and they only had one buff (Strenght and a bit of Dexterity), but still invalueable to any raid.

    - Blood Mage: top dps healer. Aggrofree healing with lifetaps and an aggro free group heal finisher after critical hits. Lots of hitpoints for a healer (thanks to selfbuffs) and could share them with a tank.

    - Enchanter: Actually this class got a jawbreaker name in Vanguard, they've been called Psionicist. Everyone called them enchanter instead though, or Psion. Anyway, they've been mandatory for certain fights. Also they had the best mage buffs (together with Phoenix Shaman). Unsurprisingly they've been the entchanting specialist. Bards could do that too, but not good enough for raids.

    - Druid: Some massive special abilities, such as allowing the raid to operate their abilities without endurance and/or mana for a short while. Mandatory for certain fights. Top spike dps class in the game.

    - Sorcerer: THE Spell disruptor, which made them mandatory for many fights. Also the sustained damage champion class, though see Bard. Could Dispel. Also one of the classes with sleep, but that was fairly common (IIRC Enchanter and Bard got it, too).

    - Necromancer: Single most important buff for raid tanks (meat). Great at wipe survival (Fake Death). Great at sustained dps in longterm fights ... if the player could keep track to keep up all the DoTs at all times.



    Obviously if they have level 20 and 30 raids, it wont be exactly like this again. Since I dont assume level 30 is maxlevel this time around ? Well, we'll see.

    SovrathEvilGeek
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • qwert666qwert666 Member UncommonPosts: 17
    edited July 31
    I hate raiding. I also think it is an old fashioned design that needs to change. I had FAR more fun in WoW's BGs than I ever did raiding in EQ, VG, WoW, Rift, ESO, etc. 
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,238
    Pantheon is primarily a PvE game, and there wont be any instancing.

    Thus, no battlegrounds.
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • TwoTubesTwoTubes Member UncommonPosts: 156

    Obviously if they have level 20 and 30 raids, it wont be exactly like this again. Since I dont assume level 30 is maxlevel this time around ? Well, we'll see.

    Max lvl is planned to be 50 on release.  Like mentioned, lower lvl raids are planned as well.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,834
    Boss battles are in all EQ style MMORPGs, from the very beginning.

    And thats all that raids really are, they are boss battles.



    I wonder if they will manage to make Pantheons raids as challenging as Vanguards raids. In Vanguard, you really valued every class, because they all had unique abilities. From memory, no guarantee its all correct, Vanguard is after all gone since 5 years by now:

    - Paladin: Probably best tank class overall, with highest aggro. Mandatory for certain fights, since they've been immune to fear. Btw they said they've given Warrior and Dread Knight immunity to fear but at least on my DK that didnt work, I still got massively debuffed.

    - Warrior: best dps tank (important in timed fights). IIRC they've been the best with group aggro, but it might have been the other way around.

    - Dread Knight: Definitely less aggro than the other two tank classes, but still good enough tanking. You just had to wait a bit longer on dps classes before going all out on a DK. Best single debuff in the game (Dreadful Countenance). Able to Dispel (and that worked surprisingly well, too). Also noteworthy: only class that ever managed to solo a raidboss (Jagund the Wavebreaker). Was only possible because the boss was for original maxlevel 50, but maxlevel had been raised to 55 at that time, and that boss had summons which could be tapped for life so the DK had a source for healing.

    - Rogue: best physical dps, or supposed to be (see bard). Can push aggro to the tank. They might have more features but Rogue was played so rarely I'm not sure I ever had one in a raid. And in seven years playing I am fairly sure the fingers of one hand are sufficient to count the times I had one in my group.

    - Bard: best group buffer, to the degree that you absolutely wanted one per group, in every of the 3 or 4 groups of the raid force. Great dps by themselves (at some times best dps in the game). IIRC able to Dispel, but they had otherwise no reason to max Int, so their Dispel sucked.

    - Ranger: best stance kicker.

    - Monk: best puller (best Fake Death), can surive raid wipes (Fake Death), second best stance kicker (still good enough), can push aggro to the tank. All in all they rocket hard.

    - Cleric: class unique healing abilities, as with the other healer types. You wanted each type of healer in your raid to maximize the effective hitpoint reserves of the tanks. Clerics specifically could heal almost all of the hitpoints of a tank in an instant; essential for certain fights. Compared to other healers, they had trouble with keeping their mana up though. Unique abilities in the subclasses, too, for example my Death Cleric had a strong 20% accuracy debuff for raid bosses not available to other Cleric subclasses.

    - Shaman: unique healing abilities, unique buffs, and all three variants of shaman had unique abilities, so you basically wanted all three of them. For example Bear Shaman got a Endurance Regen buff all endurance users absolutley wanted, and Phoenix Shaman got a Mana Regen buff that all spellcasters longed to get.

    - Disciple: manaless healing. Great dps too. Neither stance kicking nor their Fake Death was useful in raids, and they only had one buff (Strenght and a bit of Dexterity), but still invalueable to any raid.

    - Blood Mage: top dps healer. Aggrofree healing with lifetaps and an aggro free group heal finisher after critical hits. Lots of hitpoints for a healer (thanks to selfbuffs) and could share them with a tank.

    - Enchanter: Actually this class got a jawbreaker name in Vanguard, they've been called Psionicist. Everyone called them enchanter instead though, or Psion. Anyway, they've been mandatory for certain fights. Also they had the best mage buffs (together with Phoenix Shaman). Unsurprisingly they've been the entchanting specialist. Bards could do that too, but not good enough for raids.

    - Druid: Some massive special abilities, such as allowing the raid to operate their abilities without endurance and/or mana for a short while. Mandatory for certain fights. Top spike dps class in the game.

    - Sorcerer: THE Spell disruptor, which made them mandatory for many fights. Also the sustained damage champion class, though see Bard. Could Dispel. Also one of the classes with sleep, but that was fairly common (IIRC Enchanter and Bard got it, too).

    - Necromancer: Single most important buff for raid tanks (meat). Great at wipe survival (Fake Death). Great at sustained dps in longterm fights ... if the player could keep track to keep up all the DoTs at all times.



    Obviously if they have level 20 and 30 raids, it wont be exactly like this again. Since I dont assume level 30 is maxlevel this time around ? Well, we'll see.

    i just logged my lvl 30 Cleric out of Vanguard
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,303
    svann said:
    Monthly update mentions raids.  Is that new news or something that was previously announced?
    If this team focuses on Raids,i won't be playing and that is a guarantee.

    I want content and ideas/systems that support the fact i am living in a world.There isn't even any reason people have been doing raids for years,other than >>loot and most often that loot is somehow magically given away even though the foes did not have any such loot on them.

    So game design has been just trash for soooooo long,nobody making sense of anything,instances and automation,cash shops,NONE of what i have seen implemented in mmorpg's should be there.

    For once i want to see a mmorpg designed that MAKES SENSE,plausible realism.I will no longer support amateur game design,i gave developers plenty of years to learn and get it right so now is the time to deliver or get out.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • acidbloodacidblood Member RarePosts: 843
    I'm looking forward to Pantheon (though I never played EQ) as I'm hoping it will breathe a bit of life into a genre that has gone stale on instances, auto-queues, and an obsession with DPS races.

    That said, and while I don't mind there being Raids in the game (I may even try them if they look interesting) if Pantheon becomes 'Raid or die (of boredom)' I'm out.
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