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Have you murdered another player in a MMORPG?

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  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,541
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Phry said: go through all this effort to put in such a feature in the game, like PvP and then have the flip-flop audacity to try and dissuade people from doing it?


    If they put in PvP, then, alright, lets PvP, that is why I play Arena Games, when I PvP, there is no "Well, we kinda didn't expect you to tea bag the shit out of them after you shot them in the ass a million times" the devs are like "LOL that was great! Do it AGAIN!"


    There is the difference, arena PVP is "just a game," usually for "funsies" with few if any consequences for losing, or for that matter, no real reward for winning 

    In a PVP centric MMORPG like EVE the stakes are very different,  more like open warfare where not dying is just as, if not more important than winning.

    When significant resources (player time in the end) are on the line, battles are chosen carefully,  with only those with a good likelihood of success being continued.

    In such a universe, it makes sense why developers would put in controls on PVP, in order to simulate a more realistic virtual world, much more challenging than creating PVP games.
    I just got back into EVE, and i must say that part about not dying being as or more important than winning is so true. especially when you start flying expensive ships.
    SovrathKyleran
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,636
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Phry said: go through all this effort to put in such a feature in the game, like PvP and then have the flip-flop audacity to try and dissuade people from doing it?


    If they put in PvP, then, alright, lets PvP, that is why I play Arena Games, when I PvP, there is no "Well, we kinda didn't expect you to tea bag the shit out of them after you shot them in the ass a million times" the devs are like "LOL that was great! Do it AGAIN!"


    There is the difference, arena PVP is "just a game," usually for "funsies" with few if any consequences for losing, or for that matter, no real reward for winning 

    In a PVP centric MMORPG like EVE the stakes are very different,  more like open warfare where not dying is just as, if not more important than winning.

    When significant resources (player time in the end) are on the line, battles are chosen carefully,  with only those with a good likelihood of success being continued.

    In such a universe, it makes sense why developers would put in controls on PVP, in order to simulate a more realistic virtual world, much more challenging than creating PVP games.
    Here is how I see it.

    If you give players the ability to kill each other, they will.. end of discussion.

    To give players the ability to kill each other and then put in all kinds of mechanics to try to dissuade them from killing each other, comes across as a counterproductive design system.

    Yes, ths one outliner like EvE as it were, with it's cult like following, but, allow me to express a logical design system, so you can see where I am coming from, imagine for a moment, you are sitting at a meeting with your head producer, and you are talking about all the various checks and balances you have put into your game, a very complex system of dermertis and deterrents to stop players from killing each other in your PvP, and they ask you this question "If you didn't want players killing each other, then why did you make a PvP game?"

    Put yourself at that table.. and now sell me on this idea.
    alkarionlogbcbullyGdemamiMisterZebub
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,003
    I generally don't roleplay psychopathic murderers in MMORPGs, so I rarely fight players unprovoked.

    I remember killing a guy who named his paladin "Ikillhorde" in WoW. I one shot him once, because of the name, but didn't corpse camp or such crap.

    If you piss me off though, like repeatedly killing my lowby and camping him, I will log in my main and repeatedly murder you until you leave the zone or log out.

    So yeah, I murdered many players in the many MMORPGs I've played since UO beta, but it was very rarely unprovoked, there was always a reason. You won't find me in a newbie area with my max level camping and killing just because I can. In my book, people who do that are assholes I don't want to associate with.
    Sovrath
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,650
    Ungood said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Phry said:
    If its possible to kill another player then its authorised, there are games that have negative karma or other mechanics to 'dissuade' people from being 'excessive' but that is not making it 'illegal' if you think that this is implied by some games, you are probably mistaken, if its possible, then it is just part of the game and not illegal.
    Wait a minute... So... Because I can wield a bat and kill someone else, it's NOT "illegal" because LIFE allows it?
    Here is something I never quite understood. Why would a developer go through all the effort to make a Open PvP game, I mean, they had to program that stuff in, so this was a deliberate act on their part to make it so players could kill each other. Anyway, why would they go through all this effort to put in such a feature in the game, like PvP and then have the flip-flop audacity to try and dissuade people from doing it?

    If you don't want people killing each other, why on this earth would anyone go through the effort to put in FFA Open PvP to start with? That kind of, "We don't know what the fuck we are doing" game developing irks the hell out of me, which is why I never touch games like that. 

    If they put in PvP, then, alright, lets PvP, that is why I play Arena Games, when I PvP, there is no "Well, we kinda didn't expect you to tea bag the shit out of them after you shot them in the ass a million times" the devs are like "LOL that was great! Do it AGAIN!"

    This is also why I don't really play MMO's with PvP in them, I mean, sure, if the PvP is one of those "Off to the Side" things that I can ignore, I'll give the game a whirl, but, I have yet to play an MMO where the people making the game really had their heads on right with what they were trying to accomplish with the PvP part of the game.

    Just my feels on it. 
    Without the risk of those consequences, I might as well be in a battle ground or playing an arena game. I’m an rpg’r through and through. I want a virtual world where I can role play my alignment.

    Freedom and consequences, risk and reward. Without those systems choices become meaningless. Without those systems you having meaningless killing and gameplay in general. To take it a step further, corpse camping (only bad games allow) killing low level players, why should the perpetrator even care? It’s all meaningless without risk vs reward, freedom vs consequences. 
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,218
    I think words like "kill" and "murder" are more accurately phrased: "mildly inconvenienced and perhaps embarrassed for two to five minutes." 
    AlBQuirky

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,003
    bcbully said:
     
    I want a virtual world where I can role play my alignment.
     
    And the big problem with that is that way too many choose to play chaotic evil aligned psycho-murderers ;)
    UngoodKyleranAlBQuirky
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,218
    bcbully said:
     
    I want a virtual world where I can role play my alignment.
     
    And the big problem with that is that way too many choose to play chaotic evil aligned psycho-murderers ;)
    I think the official D&D alignment is called Chaotic Douchebag. 
    Jean-Luc_PicardNanfoodleUngoodVermillion_RaventhalKyleranAlBQuirky

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,695
    Calling consensual gaming as murder is like saying Movies and TV shows murder people all the time but wait the actors in these shows go home to their families and gamers log off and do the same thing. 



  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,650
    edited June 17
    bcbully said:
     
    I want a virtual world where I can role play my alignment.
     
    And the big problem with that is that way too many choose to play chaotic evil aligned psycho-murderers ;)
    Not if there are consequences my brother. What you find is most become very civilized.

     It’s no fun being caught and you character spending 20 plus hours in the gallows waiting on your beheading.... purple named...

    In Wushu you have to straight be playing a psychopath to be purple named, I mean straight not give a fuck. There was jail before that, 5 hour prison sentence too. Hell you could meditate for a 30 mins and knock some of that infamy off, longer depending how much. 

    In all my hours in that game I only saw 2 or 3 purple names. One was damn good. I stayed clear. Not because I didn’t have a chance, I just didn’t need those problems.

    Nah man with the systems Wushu has in place, chaotic evil wasnt something you just logged in and decided to do lol unless you were insane, or that damn good.



    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,968
    edited June 17
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Phry said: go through all this effort to put in such a feature in the game, like PvP and then have the flip-flop audacity to try and dissuade people from doing it?


    If they put in PvP, then, alright, lets PvP, that is why I play Arena Games, when I PvP, there is no "Well, we kinda didn't expect you to tea bag the shit out of them after you shot them in the ass a million times" the devs are like "LOL that was great! Do it AGAIN!"


    There is the difference, arena PVP is "just a game," usually for "funsies" with few if any consequences for losing, or for that matter, no real reward for winning 

    In a PVP centric MMORPG like EVE the stakes are very different,  more like open warfare where not dying is just as, if not more important than winning.

    When significant resources (player time in the end) are on the line, battles are chosen carefully,  with only those with a good likelihood of success being continued.

    In such a universe, it makes sense why developers would put in controls on PVP, in order to simulate a more realistic virtual world, much more challenging than creating PVP games.
    Here is how I see it.

    If you give players the ability to kill each other, they will.. end of discussion.

    To give players the ability to kill each other and then put in all kinds of mechanics to try to dissuade them from killing each other, comes across as a counterproductive design system.

    Yes, ths one outliner like EvE as it were, with it's cult like following, but, allow me to express a logical design system, so you can see where I am coming from, imagine for a moment, you are sitting at a meeting with your head producer, and you are talking about all the various checks and balances you have put into your game, a very complex system of dermertis and deterrents to stop players from killing each other in your PvP, and they ask you this question "If you didn't want players killing each other, then why did you make a PvP game?"

    Put yourself at that table.. and now sell me on this idea.
    I'd argue the niche includes Lineage 1, 2, Wushu, ArcheAge, Runescape and even UO post Trammel, all put in checks and balances on "FFA" PVP in order to create a more balanced virtual world.

    At the start of design, games are a blank slate, to which desired features are added.

    PVP is a mechanic, a decision really, no different than say which progression system to use, levels, skills, horizontal, vertical etc. 

    So just as a game might contain levels, few would call it a "levels" game, rather it is just a game with levels, or if you will a game with PVP.

    In your example said producer might ask me to justify level based progression, asking questions like how slow or fast, are they unlimited or capped, and if the latter what will the game do to retain player interest after reaching it.

    Same with PVP, FFA or segregated,  if FFA wide open, or with restrictions? If the answer is the former expect the producer to fire you considering how little success that design has in the virtual world space.

    Perhaps if designing an arena shooter they might be more forgiving,  but even those games often put in a tier system so greenhorns are  not pitted against pros because, you know, it wouldn't be "fair."

    Designing the "illusion" of fairness is the quiet brilliance of most shooters, gamers often  incorrectly believe they have a chance when the reality is the opposite.

    But that would be a great topic for a new thread. 



    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,636
    bcbully said:
    Ungood said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Phry said:
    If its possible to kill another player then its authorised, there are games that have negative karma or other mechanics to 'dissuade' people from being 'excessive' but that is not making it 'illegal' if you think that this is implied by some games, you are probably mistaken, if its possible, then it is just part of the game and not illegal.
    Wait a minute... So... Because I can wield a bat and kill someone else, it's NOT "illegal" because LIFE allows it?
    Here is something I never quite understood. Why would a developer go through all the effort to make a Open PvP game, I mean, they had to program that stuff in, so this was a deliberate act on their part to make it so players could kill each other. Anyway, why would they go through all this effort to put in such a feature in the game, like PvP and then have the flip-flop audacity to try and dissuade people from doing it?

    If you don't want people killing each other, why on this earth would anyone go through the effort to put in FFA Open PvP to start with? That kind of, "We don't know what the fuck we are doing" game developing irks the hell out of me, which is why I never touch games like that. 

    If they put in PvP, then, alright, lets PvP, that is why I play Arena Games, when I PvP, there is no "Well, we kinda didn't expect you to tea bag the shit out of them after you shot them in the ass a million times" the devs are like "LOL that was great! Do it AGAIN!"

    This is also why I don't really play MMO's with PvP in them, I mean, sure, if the PvP is one of those "Off to the Side" things that I can ignore, I'll give the game a whirl, but, I have yet to play an MMO where the people making the game really had their heads on right with what they were trying to accomplish with the PvP part of the game.

    Just my feels on it. 
    Without the risk of those consequences, I might as well be in a battle ground or playing an arena game. I’m an rpg’r through and through. I want a virtual world where I can role play my alignment.

    Freedom and consequences, risk and reward. Without those systems choices become meaningless. Without those systems you having meaningless killing and gameplay in general. To take it a step further, corpse camping (only bad games allow) killing low level players, why should the perpetrator even care? It’s all meaningless without risk vs reward, freedom vs consequences. 
    Oh spare me.. people playing "Evil" is just a thinly veiled excuse to be a raging asshole, and everyone knows this.
    GdemamiJean-Luc_PicardbcbullyNajwalaylah
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,636
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Phry said: go through all this effort to put in such a feature in the game, like PvP and then have the flip-flop audacity to try and dissuade people from doing it?


    If they put in PvP, then, alright, lets PvP, that is why I play Arena Games, when I PvP, there is no "Well, we kinda didn't expect you to tea bag the shit out of them after you shot them in the ass a million times" the devs are like "LOL that was great! Do it AGAIN!"


    There is the difference, arena PVP is "just a game," usually for "funsies" with few if any consequences for losing, or for that matter, no real reward for winning 

    In a PVP centric MMORPG like EVE the stakes are very different,  more like open warfare where not dying is just as, if not more important than winning.

    When significant resources (player time in the end) are on the line, battles are chosen carefully,  with only those with a good likelihood of success being continued.

    In such a universe, it makes sense why developers would put in controls on PVP, in order to simulate a more realistic virtual world, much more challenging than creating PVP games.
    Here is how I see it.

    If you give players the ability to kill each other, they will.. end of discussion.

    To give players the ability to kill each other and then put in all kinds of mechanics to try to dissuade them from killing each other, comes across as a counterproductive design system.

    Yes, ths one outliner like EvE as it were, with it's cult like following, but, allow me to express a logical design system, so you can see where I am coming from, imagine for a moment, you are sitting at a meeting with your head producer, and you are talking about all the various checks and balances you have put into your game, a very complex system of dermertis and deterrents to stop players from killing each other in your PvP, and they ask you this question "If you didn't want players killing each other, then why did you make a PvP game?"

    Put yourself at that table.. and now sell me on this idea.
    I'd argue the niche includes Lineage 1, 2, Wushu, ArcheAge, Runescape and even UO post Trammel, all put in checks and balances on "FFA" PVP in order to create a more balanced virtual world.

    At the start of design, games are a blank slate, to which desired features are added.

    PVP is a mechanic, a decision really, no different than say which progression system to use, levels, skills, horizontal, vertical etc. 

    So just as a game might contain levels, few would call it a "levels" game, rather it is just a game with levels, or if you will a game with PVP.

    In your example said producer might ask me to justify level based progression, asking questions like how slow or fast, are they unlimited or capped, and if the latter what will the game do to retain player interest after reaching it.

    Same with PVP, FFA or segregated,  if FFA wide open, or with restrictions? If the answer is the former expect the producer to fire you considering how little success that design has in the virtual world space.

    Perhaps if designing an arena shooter they might be more forgiving,  but even those games often put in a tier system so greenhorns are  not pitted against pros because, you know, it wouldn't be "fair."

    Designing the "illusion" of fairness is the quiet brilliance of most shooters, gamers often  incorrectly believe they have a chance when the reality is the opposite.

    But that would be a great topic for a new thread. 



    I have already on other topics, explained the value of levels and progression based games, so if I was asked to justify levels, I could justify the fuck out of them.

    Now, all you have done, is meander and quite frankly talk me out of why this is a good system or even why anyone should waste time with these convoluted ideas.

    So again, I asked you to Sell me why I need to make a huge complex system of checks and balances just to put in PvP, when I could provide the same feelings of progression and reward for players for far less time and development by simply making the game PvE only,

    or

    I could make a game all about the PvP and provide a massive blood bath kill-them-all shooter arena for people to enjoy carnage in.

    and I could make both of those kinds of game for far less money and social issues, then it would cost me to try and combine them.

    So here is your goal.. sell me why this convoluted PvP with features that stop PvP is a good idea.


    GdemamiKyleranbcbullyNajwalaylah
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,218
    Ungood said:

    Oh spare me.. people playing "Evil" is just a thinly veiled excuse to be a raging asshole, and everyone knows this.
    But that would mean we can't have good and evil - just good and asshole. 
    SovrathSlapshot1188AlBQuirky

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,534
    Ungood said:


    So here is your goal.. sell me why this convoluted PvP with features that stop PvP is a good idea.


    We wouldn't sell "you" on it because it's not your thing. You don't like it. You don't get it. If you valued it then that would be apparent.

    Why would anyone try to sell someone on something they are adamantly against in the first place?

    It's much easier to sell a gam to "the actual audience who is looking for that game!"

    Seems pretty cut and dried.

    I like battlegrounds. Truly. But there is more of a sense of world of politics and of banding together to fight those who would destroy you.

    If you don't "get" the last one then there is no reason to press further.
    Slapshot1188KyleranScorchienbcbullyGdemamiAlBQuirky



  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,762
    I laugh as their digital dust scatters across the pixel world.
    Cryomatrix
    I'm a simple man spoiled from MMOs of the old age.  Looking for a home but deserted.  My heart and time is not worthy for the MMOs of the new age.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,636
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:


    So here is your goal.. sell me why this convoluted PvP with features that stop PvP is a good idea.


    We wouldn't sell "you" on it because it's not your thing. You don't like it. You don't get it. If you valued it then that would be apparent.

    Why would anyone try to sell someone on something they are adamantly against in the first place?

    It's much easier to sell a gam to "the actual audience who is looking for that game!"

    Seems pretty cut and dried.

    I like battlegrounds. Truly. But there is more of a sense of world of politics and of banding together to fight those who would destroy you.

    If you don't "get" the last one then there is no reason to press further.

    No, I have played Open World Full Loot Perma Death PvP games for years, so, spare me any hyperbolic bullshit about not understanding this type of game play or not "Getting it"

    Here is the thing, you have no explained how it adds value to the game, and truth be told, let's be honest here, you can't, because sad sorry tale that none of you want to admit to, is that it really doesn't.

    Thank you for your time.
    Gdemami
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,534
    edited June 17
    Ungood said:


    No, I have played Open World Full Loot Perma Death PvP games for years, so, spare me any hyperbolic bullshit about not understanding this type of game play or not "Getting it"

    Here is the thing, you have no explained how it adds value to the game, and truth be told, let's be honest here, you can't, because sad sorry tale that none of you want to admit to, is that it really doesn't.

    Thank you for your time.
    I think everyone has already said how it adds value to the game. I know I did. Why are you ignoring that?

    "But there is more of a sense of world of politics and of banding together to fight those who would destroy you." That's the value. Many have said similar.

    So you played them for years but you are asking us to sell you on it? You are asking us to convince you? What the heck?

    Why would you play such a game for years if you didn't enjoy it? You are telling us that you played them for years but still need to be sold?

    Don't play things "for years" if you don't like them. Why would you waste your time?



    ConstantineMerusKyleranbcbullyGdemamiAlBQuirky



  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,636
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:


    No, I have played Open World Full Loot Perma Death PvP games for years, so, spare me any hyperbolic bullshit about not understanding this type of game play or not "Getting it"

    Here is the thing, you have no explained how it adds value to the game, and truth be told, let's be honest here, you can't, because sad sorry tale that none of you want to admit to, is that it really doesn't.

    Thank you for your time.
    I think everyone has already said how it adds value to the game. I know I did. Why are you ignoring that?

    "But there is more of a sense of world of politics and of banding together to fight those who would destroy you." That's the value. Many have said similar.

    So you played them for years but you are asking us to sell you on it? You are asking us to convince you? What the heck?

    Why would you play such a game for years if you didn't enjoy it? You are telling us that you played them for years but still need to be sold?

    Don't play things "for years" if you don't like them. Why would you waste your time?



    Lets see.

    So far, we have "I want to be an asshole and kill people" as a reason.

    Well.. gosh, I don't know how that could not make the game better for.. well just the raging assholes.

    And we have "I love the idea of gang life" where people are forced to join a gang for their own protection where they will commonly be intimidated from within and threatened from without into obedience and loyalty to the gang.

    Yah.. again.. thank you for your time.
    KyleranbcbullyGdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,968
    Amathe said:
    I think words like "kill" and "murder" are more accurately phrased: "mildly inconvenienced and perhaps embarrassed for two to five minutes." 
    Hmm, not sure I agree, imagine mining 4B ISK of ore for 3 weeks, and due to a gross tactical error you find yourself deep in "safer space" floating in your pod two hops from the market hub watching gankers make off with the full cargo.

    Mildly inconvenienced? Not hardly.

    :#


    ConstantineMerusAlBQuirky

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,534
    Ungood said:
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:


    No, I have played Open World Full Loot Perma Death PvP games for years, so, spare me any hyperbolic bullshit about not understanding this type of game play or not "Getting it"

    Here is the thing, you have no explained how it adds value to the game, and truth be told, let's be honest here, you can't, because sad sorry tale that none of you want to admit to, is that it really doesn't.

    Thank you for your time.
    I think everyone has already said how it adds value to the game. I know I did. Why are you ignoring that?

    "But there is more of a sense of world of politics and of banding together to fight those who would destroy you." That's the value. Many have said similar.

    So you played them for years but you are asking us to sell you on it? You are asking us to convince you? What the heck?

    Why would you play such a game for years if you didn't enjoy it? You are telling us that you played them for years but still need to be sold?

    Don't play things "for years" if you don't like them. Why would you waste your time?



    Lets see.

    So far, we have "I want to be an asshole and kill people" as a reason.

    Well.. gosh, I don't know how that could not make the game better for.. well just the raging assholes.

    And we have "I love the idea of gang life" where people are forced to join a gang for their own protection where they will commonly be intimidated from within and threatened from without into obedience and loyalty to the gang.

    Yah.. again.. thank you for your time.
    And we have people who like the idea of clan/guild/alliance pride, taking over areas and fighting for those areas.

    Not everyone wants to be an asshole and not everyone wants to be part of gang life. The problem with your post is that's all you see. You're literally taking your dislike of this type of pvp and perhaps the bad experiences you've had and saying everyone is like this.

    If I did this I'd never play a pve title again as I've run across a TON of assholes on the pve side. A ton. And not much one could do about it.

    The thing is, there are bad people on all sides. That's life. It doesn't change the idea that open pvp/ffa pvp has its place just like battlegrounds have their place.


    ScorchienAlBQuirky



  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,636
    edited June 17
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:


    No, I have played Open World Full Loot Perma Death PvP games for years, so, spare me any hyperbolic bullshit about not understanding this type of game play or not "Getting it"

    Here is the thing, you have no explained how it adds value to the game, and truth be told, let's be honest here, you can't, because sad sorry tale that none of you want to admit to, is that it really doesn't.

    Thank you for your time.
    I think everyone has already said how it adds value to the game. I know I did. Why are you ignoring that?

    "But there is more of a sense of world of politics and of banding together to fight those who would destroy you." That's the value. Many have said similar.

    So you played them for years but you are asking us to sell you on it? You are asking us to convince you? What the heck?

    Why would you play such a game for years if you didn't enjoy it? You are telling us that you played them for years but still need to be sold?

    Don't play things "for years" if you don't like them. Why would you waste your time?



    Lets see.

    So far, we have "I want to be an asshole and kill people" as a reason.

    Well.. gosh, I don't know how that could not make the game better for.. well just the raging assholes.

    And we have "I love the idea of gang life" where people are forced to join a gang for their own protection where they will commonly be intimidated from within and threatened from without into obedience and loyalty to the gang.

    Yah.. again.. thank you for your time.
    And we have people who like the idea of clan/guild/alliance pride, taking over areas and fighting for those areas.

    Not everyone wants to be an asshole and not everyone wants to be part of gang life. The problem with your post is that's all you see. You're literally taking your dislike of this type of pvp and perhaps the bad experiences you've had and saying everyone is like this.

    If I did this I'd never play a pve title again as I've run across a TON of assholes on the pve side. A ton. And not much one could do about it.

    The thing is, there are bad people on all sides. That's life. It doesn't change the idea that open pvp/ffa pvp has its place just like battlegrounds have their place.


    You're right, not everyone wants to be an asshole and not everyone wants to be part of a gang, but if you play an Open World PvP game, you will inevitably end up being both, as you simply cannot thrive otherwise. This is something I have learned over years of playing these games.

    No matter what rules or whatever are put in the game to protect softassed players, there will come times when you just have to be a total fucking asshole to someone, you will have to not only kill them but spawn camp them, and kill everyone and anyone that comes to help them, and you will have to do this because you know the kind of shit person they are and you simply cannot be the "better man" as they lack the mental capacity and social maturity to understand that kind of response. You end up needing to grind them under your heel, show them you are not to be fucked with, and only then, will they get the message, you are not "soft" or "weak" because you showed kindness, only then will these bottom scum understand that you opted to be nice, because you are a total psycho badass, who can afford to be nice from time to time. You may not want to be an a total raging psycho asshole, but it is simply a matter of time before you run across someone that will force you to respond to them in that manner, that is just the nature of these games, and we all know it.

    You are also right, that not everyone wants to be in a gang, but if you are playing an Open World PvP you will end up in one if you plan to thrive at all. You want to get someone to lay off you, your gonna need your fellow thugs to back you up, because their bravery is brought on by the power of their gang, just the way it is. You want to just go hunt some snowbeasts, and harvest plets to craft, you getter have your gang colors on, or some other gang-bangers are gonna make you their bitch. That is just the way the game is set up, we both know that is the way these things work.

    You can pull that "Oh people fart glitter and rainbows in these games" to someone who has not played them.. But like I said.. I played these games for years.. I know how they really work.

    Edit: But I digress.. we have talked about this beyond it's value.
    Gdemami
  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,650
    Ungood said:
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:


    No, I have played Open World Full Loot Perma Death PvP games for years, so, spare me any hyperbolic bullshit about not understanding this type of game play or not "Getting it"

    Here is the thing, you have no explained how it adds value to the game, and truth be told, let's be honest here, you can't, because sad sorry tale that none of you want to admit to, is that it really doesn't.

    Thank you for your time.
    I think everyone has already said how it adds value to the game. I know I did. Why are you ignoring that?

    "But there is more of a sense of world of politics and of banding together to fight those who would destroy you." That's the value. Many have said similar.

    So you played them for years but you are asking us to sell you on it? You are asking us to convince you? What the heck?

    Why would you play such a game for years if you didn't enjoy it? You are telling us that you played them for years but still need to be sold?

    Don't play things "for years" if you don't like them. Why would you waste your time?



    Lets see.

    So far, we have "I want to be an asshole and kill people" as a reason.

    Well.. gosh, I don't know how that could not make the game better for.. well just the raging assholes.

    And we have "I love the idea of gang life" where people are forced to join a gang for their own protection where they will commonly be intimidated from within and threatened from without into obedience and loyalty to the gang.

    Yah.. again.. thank you for your time.
    And we have people who like the idea of clan/guild/alliance pride, taking over areas and fighting for those areas.

    Not everyone wants to be an asshole and not everyone wants to be part of gang life. The problem with your post is that's all you see. You're literally taking your dislike of this type of pvp and perhaps the bad experiences you've had and saying everyone is like this.

    If I did this I'd never play a pve title again as I've run across a TON of assholes on the pve side. A ton. And not much one could do about it.

    The thing is, there are bad people on all sides. That's life. It doesn't change the idea that open pvp/ffa pvp has its place just like battlegrounds have their place.


    You're right, not everyone wants to be an asshole and not everyone wants to be part of a gang, but if you play an Open World PvP game, you will inevitably end up being both, as you simply cannot thrive otherwise. This is something I have learned over years of playing these games.

    No matter what rules or whatever are put in the game to protect softassed players, there will come times when you just have to be a total fucking asshole to someone, you will have to not only kill them but spawn camp them, and kill everyone and anyone that comes to help them, and you will have to do this because you know the kind of shit person they are and you simply cannot be the "better man" as they lack the mental capacity and social maturity to understand that kind of response. You end up needing to grind them under your heel, show them you are not to be fucked with, and only then, will they get the message, you are not "soft" or "weak" because you showed kindness, only then will these bottom scum understand that you opted to be nice, because you are a total psycho badass, who can afford to be nice from time to time. You may not want to be an a total raging psycho asshole, but it is simply a matter of time before you run across someone that will force you to respond to them in that manner, that is just the nature of these games, and we all know it.

    You are also right, that not everyone wants to be in a gang, but if you are playing an Open World PvP you will end up in one if you plan to thrive at all. You want to get someone to lay off you, your gonna need your fellow thugs to back you up, because their bravery is brought on by the power of their gang, just the way it is. You want to just go hunt some snowbeasts, and harvest plets to craft, you getter have your gang colors on, or some other gang-bangers are gonna make you their bitch. That is just the way the game is set up, we both know that is the way these things work.

    You can pull that "Oh people fart glitter and rainbows in these games" to someone who has not played them.. But like I said.. I played these games for years.. I know how they really work.

    Edit: But I digress.. we have talked about this beyond it's value.
    Dude what full loot ffa PvP permadeth game we’re playing that made you feel this way? I don’t know of any at all, and if I did I wouldn’t play. It sounds terrible. I have to run in a gang and be an ass?

     Nah no thanks. I’m a solo chaotic neutral type.
    ConstantineMerus
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,534
    Ungood said:

    You're right, not everyone wants to be an asshole and not everyone wants to be part of a gang, but if you play an Open World PvP game, you will inevitably end up being both, as you simply cannot thrive otherwise. This is something I have learned over years of playing these games.
    etc

    That is just the way the game is set up, we both know that is the way these things work.

    You can pull that "Oh people fart glitter and rainbows in these games" to someone who has not played them.. But like I said.. I played these games for years.. I know how they really work.

    Edit: But I digress.. we have talked about this beyond it's value.
    I just think you are taking your experiences and making them out to be more than they actually are.

    No, not everyone becomes an asshole. I played Lineage 2 for over 6 years and I ran into more "good people" than assholes. Additionally, you don't have to "become an asshole." fighting back doesn't equate "becoming an asshole,."

    So yes you played these games for years (for some f'ing reason?!?!?!??) and you took your experiences, blew them out of proportion and made it so that the entire thing is a cesspool.

    What usually happens is that there is a small group of vocal "assholes" and they make it seem like everyone is. But that just isn't the case.

    why should a company make a game like this? Probably because they believe in this type of game play. Given that we aren't going to have many mmorpg's coming down the pike I think we are at the end of "these types of games" other than a few survival games.
    Scorchien



  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,512
    after murdering players in diablo 2 hardcore like 20 years ago, where they actually were consequences, I do feel bad. 

    I guess that's the closest thing to murder in a video game. The character is gone for good. :)

    I win the asshole award. 
    Vermillion_Raventhal
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,682
    Ungood said:
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:


    No, I have played Open World Full Loot Perma Death PvP games for years, so, spare me any hyperbolic bullshit about not understanding this type of game play or not "Getting it"

    Here is the thing, you have no explained how it adds value to the game, and truth be told, let's be honest here, you can't, because sad sorry tale that none of you want to admit to, is that it really doesn't.

    Thank you for your time.
    I think everyone has already said how it adds value to the game. I know I did. Why are you ignoring that?

    "But there is more of a sense of world of politics and of banding together to fight those who would destroy you." That's the value. Many have said similar.

    So you played them for years but you are asking us to sell you on it? You are asking us to convince you? What the heck?

    Why would you play such a game for years if you didn't enjoy it? You are telling us that you played them for years but still need to be sold?

    Don't play things "for years" if you don't like them. Why would you waste your time?



    Lets see.

    So far, we have "I want to be an asshole and kill people" as a reason.

    Well.. gosh, I don't know how that could not make the game better for.. well just the raging assholes.

    And we have "I love the idea of gang life" where people are forced to join a gang for their own protection where they will commonly be intimidated from within and threatened from without into obedience and loyalty to the gang.

    Yah.. again.. thank you for your time.
    And we have people who like the idea of clan/guild/alliance pride, taking over areas and fighting for those areas.

    Not everyone wants to be an asshole and not everyone wants to be part of gang life. The problem with your post is that's all you see. You're literally taking your dislike of this type of pvp and perhaps the bad experiences you've had and saying everyone is like this.

    If I did this I'd never play a pve title again as I've run across a TON of assholes on the pve side. A ton. And not much one could do about it.

    The thing is, there are bad people on all sides. That's life. It doesn't change the idea that open pvp/ffa pvp has its place just like battlegrounds have their place.


    You're right, not everyone wants to be an asshole and not everyone wants to be part of a gang, but if you play an Open World PvP game, you will inevitably end up being both, as you simply cannot thrive otherwise. This is something I have learned over years of playing these games.

    No matter what rules or whatever are put in the game to protect softassed players, there will come times when you just have to be a total fucking asshole to someone, you will have to not only kill them but spawn camp them, and kill everyone and anyone that comes to help them, and you will have to do this because you know the kind of shit person they are and you simply cannot be the "better man" as they lack the mental capacity and social maturity to understand that kind of response. You end up needing to grind them under your heel, show them you are not to be fucked with, and only then, will they get the message, you are not "soft" or "weak" because you showed kindness, only then will these bottom scum understand that you opted to be nice, because you are a total psycho badass, who can afford to be nice from time to time. You may not want to be an a total raging psycho asshole, but it is simply a matter of time before you run across someone that will force you to respond to them in that manner, that is just the nature of these games, and we all know it.

    You are also right, that not everyone wants to be in a gang, but if you are playing an Open World PvP you will end up in one if you plan to thrive at all. You want to get someone to lay off you, your gonna need your fellow thugs to back you up, because their bravery is brought on by the power of their gang, just the way it is. You want to just go hunt some snowbeasts, and harvest plets to craft, you getter have your gang colors on, or some other gang-bangers are gonna make you their bitch. That is just the way the game is set up, we both know that is the way these things work.

    You can pull that "Oh people fart glitter and rainbows in these games" to someone who has not played them.. But like I said.. I played these games for years.. I know how they really work.

    Edit: But I digress.. we have talked about this beyond it's value.
    Ive been playing UO 21 years and this is completely wrong
    SovrathGdemami
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