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Have you murdered another player in a MMORPG?

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  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    edited June 2019
    Amathe said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Your questions wording is odd and disturbing.
    I think I MMORPG murder is more fitting term for killing someone for no reason.  
    I get what you are saying, but if in chess I take your knight and remove it from the board, have I murdered that knight? Seems a tad extreme, rhetorically speaking. 

    Maybe ask "has anyone ever ganked a noob?" :)

    C'mon, you know you have. Who cried when Old Yeller died?

    Roy Batty: "I've done ... questionable things."
    In chess that's a voluntary situation where the two participants are engaged in conflict already. That's not a very good example.

    I would, however, agree that murder is a bit of an extreme application in this scenario.

    In that, there are some actions a player can take against another player in a PvP enabled environment that could classically be regarded as an act of murder, but within the mechanics and rules of the game does not constitute such.

    And as others have noted, it's also the case that many games do have a voluntary barrier to entering PvP, so you have to intentionally put yourself into danger on many occasions.

    I know I preferentially would not mind a more involved design around rules of engagement and a more involved "law" system that some games in the past have attempted. The kind of thing where, yes, you can do things, but if you can bring up a moral spectrum and most people would be chagrin to commit that same act in real life, then the game can flag characters for it in some manner.

    Like ESO has a simple crime system that as it stands only applies to PvE, as PvP is quarantined off to PvP specific areas. If they opened up PvP to the game world, they could extend that crime system and perhaps improve on it.

    The goal here would be to not remove or outright punish/devalue PvP in the game or open world environments, but establishing some conventions to enforce the same principles of "respecting people as people" which is something that sort of gets lost on the internet in general at times.
    Post edited by Limnic on
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,443
    edited June 2019
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    Horusra said:
    Murder is a legal term for unlawful killing.  Is there a law in the game that says you can not kill a player?  If not then you have never "murdered" someone in a game.
    Oh come on, it is pretty clear what the topic is, why the drama over semantics? You and a bunch of other absurd posters questioning the topic. Obviously you never played Ultima Online where if you turned red you were considered a murderer. 


    Y'all need to relax. 
    Language can be very evocative and the use of the word murder seems extreme.

    And then it begs the question "what is the point?" Why does he want to know? Ok great, some of us have engaged in pvp and in some cases unprovoked pvp. Now what?
    read what define a murder and then put it in place, killing someone is considered murder, don't matter if he can ressurect later, you still did the act of murder, get over the semantics and get truth, if one word is too extreme you are not fit to survive the world
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,443
    Amathe said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Your questions wording is odd and disturbing.
    I think I MMORPG murder is more fitting term for killing someone for no reason.  
    I get what you are saying, but if in chess I take your knight and remove it from the board, have I murdered that knight? Seems a tad extreme, rhetorically speaking. 

    Maybe ask "has anyone ever ganked a noob?" :)

    C'mon, you know you have. Who cried when Old Yeller died?

    Roy Batty: "I've done ... questionable things."
    yes you did, unless you consider since it was a war and you cant murder anyone in war, since they are trying to kill you

    and a chess is something like a simulation of a combat btw 2 armies of same power


    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    Nanfoodle said:
    Your questions wording is odd and disturbing.
    LMAO Thank you





    how i picture OP reading our posts





    SovrathPhaserlightbcbully
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • Dagon13Dagon13 Member UncommonPosts: 566
    Nanfoodle said:
    Your questions wording is odd and disturbing.
    I think I MMORPG murder is more fitting term for killing someone for no reason.  Consider that many times players will kill each other for the realm differentiating it is logical.  

    You know, have you killed player for no reason other than loot, malice, boredom or etc?
    Killing for loot is a reason.  I kill for payout; be that drops, node control, or faction pride.  I won't repeatedly kill the same player though, unless they initiate or it's part of a mechanic.  Spawn campers and griefers are scum.
    Najwalaylah
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,122
    Nanfoodle said:
    Your questions wording is odd and disturbing.
    LMAO Thank you





    how i picture OP reading our posts





    Nanfoodle said:
    Your questions wording is odd and disturbing.
    LMAO Thank you





    how i picture OP reading our posts





    I am a little more tanner.
    Phaserlightbcbully
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,122
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    Horusra said:
    Murder is a legal term for unlawful killing.  Is there a law in the game that says you can not kill a player?  If not then you have never "murdered" someone in a game.
    Oh come on, it is pretty clear what the topic is, why the drama over semantics? You and a bunch of other absurd posters questioning the topic. Obviously you never played Ultima Online where if you turned red you were considered a murderer. 


    Y'all need to relax. 
    Language can be very evocative and the use of the word murder seems extreme.

    And then it begs the question "what is the point?" Why does he want to know? Ok great, some of us have engaged in pvp and in some cases unprovoked pvp. Now what?
    It is just a question about gaming.  Obvious, gaming is implied.  If you've murdered in real life. Well, I guess that is your business.

    Is there a point to anything here?  You like themeparks... ok what's the point.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,547
    Limnic said:

    In chess that's a voluntary situation where the two participants are engaged in conflict already. 
    I'm pretty sure no one is being compelled to play PvP games against their will. And conflict is intrinsic to PvP games. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,936
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    Horusra said:
    Murder is a legal term for unlawful killing.  Is there a law in the game that says you can not kill a player?  If not then you have never "murdered" someone in a game.
    Oh come on, it is pretty clear what the topic is, why the drama over semantics? You and a bunch of other absurd posters questioning the topic. Obviously you never played Ultima Online where if you turned red you were considered a murderer. 


    Y'all need to relax. 
    Language can be very evocative and the use of the word murder seems extreme.

    And then it begs the question "what is the point?" Why does he want to know? Ok great, some of us have engaged in pvp and in some cases unprovoked pvp. Now what?
    It is just a question about gaming.  Obvious, gaming is implied.  If you've murdered in real life. Well, I guess that is your business.

    Is there a point to anything here?  You like themeparks... ok what's the point.
    Your choice of "murder" was a deliberate choice. I don't think I've seen many use that as it's usually just the word "killed."

    "unprovoked murdered"

    come one, we weren't born yesterday. 
    Nanfoodle
  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    Amathe said:
    Limnic said:

    In chess that's a voluntary situation where the two participants are engaged in conflict already. 
    I'm pretty sure no one is being compelled to play PvP games against their will. And conflict is intrinsic to PvP games. 
    That drags out it's own argument regarding styles of play integrated into games and how that affects the kind of choices or compromises players may see themselves "forced" to make for the sake of finding games they will generally enjoy. 

    The short of that being "If a player finds X game that caters to most of their interests, save for the fact that it's OWPvP as a focus for it's endgame, they may still bite the bullet and handle that part of the experience for as long as they can because of the rest of the user experience."

    We certainly have agency and choice, but that does not mean we have optimal choices.
    Sovrath
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,547
    Limnic said:
    Amathe said:
    Limnic said:

    In chess that's a voluntary situation where the two participants are engaged in conflict already. 
    I'm pretty sure no one is being compelled to play PvP games against their will. And conflict is intrinsic to PvP games. 
    That drags out it's own argument regarding styles of play integrated into games and how that affects the kind of choices or compromises players may see themselves "forced" to make for the sake of finding games they will generally enjoy. 

    The short of that being "If a player finds X game that caters to most of their interests, save for the fact that it's OWPvP as a focus for it's endgame, they may still bite the bullet and handle that part of the experience for as long as they can because of the rest of the user experience."

    We certainly have agency and choice, but that does not mean we have optimal choices.
    Sorry I don't buy any of that. If someone plays a PvP game, they must accept the consequences. The fact that they somehow don't really want to PvP is not my problem. 
    Kyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,180
    Only game I've considered what I've done to another player murder is Lineage 2. I went out with the sole intention of killing a player, I killed anyone else associated with that player. It was a genuine murder full of malice and ill intent based on revenge. My intent was to make that individual suffer if not disappear altogether which they did.

    Killing players though, never invoke the feeling I am murdering them. It is a game for fun, that is part of the game. I don't consider pvp murder, just Lineage 2, things got very personal sometimes and very nasty.
    SovrathVermillion_Raventhalbcbully
  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    Amathe said:
    Limnic said:
    Amathe said:
    Limnic said:

    In chess that's a voluntary situation where the two participants are engaged in conflict already. 
    I'm pretty sure no one is being compelled to play PvP games against their will. And conflict is intrinsic to PvP games. 
    That drags out it's own argument regarding styles of play integrated into games and how that affects the kind of choices or compromises players may see themselves "forced" to make for the sake of finding games they will generally enjoy. 

    The short of that being "If a player finds X game that caters to most of their interests, save for the fact that it's OWPvP as a focus for it's endgame, they may still bite the bullet and handle that part of the experience for as long as they can because of the rest of the user experience."

    We certainly have agency and choice, but that does not mean we have optimal choices.
    Sorry I don't buy any of that. If someone plays a PvP game, they must accept the consequences. The fact that they somehow don't really want to PvP is not my problem. 
    If you want to PvP of course it's not your problem. That doesn't seem to address the optimal choices issue, just you saying "I don't care".
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 8,946
    Aori said:
    Only game I've considered what I've done to another player murder is Lineage 2. I went out with the sole intention of killing a player, I killed anyone else associated with that player. It was a genuine murder full of malice and ill intent based on revenge. My intent was to make that individual suffer if not disappear altogether which they did.

    Killing players though, never invoke the feeling I am murdering them. It is a game for fun, that is part of the game. I don't consider pvp murder, just Lineage 2, things got very personal sometimes and very nasty.
    FFA game, everyone knew what they were getting into. Was darn fun
    Catibrie
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,443
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    Horusra said:
    Murder is a legal term for unlawful killing.  Is there a law in the game that says you can not kill a player?  If not then you have never "murdered" someone in a game.
    Oh come on, it is pretty clear what the topic is, why the drama over semantics? You and a bunch of other absurd posters questioning the topic. Obviously you never played Ultima Online where if you turned red you were considered a murderer. 


    Y'all need to relax. 
    Language can be very evocative and the use of the word murder seems extreme.

    And then it begs the question "what is the point?" Why does he want to know? Ok great, some of us have engaged in pvp and in some cases unprovoked pvp. Now what?
    It is just a question about gaming.  Obvious, gaming is implied.  If you've murdered in real life. Well, I guess that is your business.

    Is there a point to anything here?  You like themeparks... ok what's the point.
    Your choice of "murder" was a deliberate choice. I don't think I've seen many use that as it's usually just the word "killed."

    "unprovoked murdered"

    come one, we weren't born yesterday. 
    extreme is you stating you point over and over and not one belive you are right, murder is used for games, red named people in old MMO was called murderers, no would get red name for killing one peep or killing someone who atacked you first, but starting a combat and killing him it gave you that. it was a mech I abused too, I didn't fight back so he could kill me when I was with my name white, that would give him murderer status and I would go back kill him and get anything he drops, since murderers get a penalty of losing equiped gear on dead, then I would or just npc the gear in spite of him or just resell him for 10X the value of the item, some did bought back it becasue of the enchants it had

    one thing I loved to do in L2 was when I was grinding in higher lvl places someone started to complain there was a theca idiot killing people in some low lvl zones, I would tp there, wear the whole no grade armor and weapon I had just for these and walk around he was last seen, don't take too long for him to show up, then I change my weapon and start to kill him, normally I get some of his theca gear or even better weapon, I would just npc it for the adena and move on back to grinding, because now the dude is fucked and without the gear

    notice the status is called murderer, so drop the is too extreme wording, it is what is called you disagreeing don't make it lose the fact, accept and move on
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,547
    Limnic said:
    If you want to PvP of course it's not your problem. That doesn't seem to address the optimal choices issue, just you saying "I don't care".
    You're right, of course. If some person is playing a PvP game who doesn't actually want to PvP, I am stuck on "I don't care." And when I encounter that player in game feeding the squirrels or playing a ukulele, I plan to pop him one.  /shrug

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,936
    edited June 2019
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    Horusra said:
    Murder is a legal term for unlawful killing.  Is there a law in the game that says you can not kill a player?  If not then you have never "murdered" someone in a game.
    Oh come on, it is pretty clear what the topic is, why the drama over semantics? You and a bunch of other absurd posters questioning the topic. Obviously you never played Ultima Online where if you turned red you were considered a murderer. 


    Y'all need to relax. 
    Language can be very evocative and the use of the word murder seems extreme.

    And then it begs the question "what is the point?" Why does he want to know? Ok great, some of us have engaged in pvp and in some cases unprovoked pvp. Now what?
    read what define a murder and then put it in place, killing someone is considered murder, don't matter if he can ressurect later, you still did the act of murder, get over the semantics and get truth, if one word is too extreme you are not fit to survive the world
    The "act of murder?" I think the world might be a bit too extreme for you if you take it that far. It's just player "killing" and no adjusted person takes it farther than that. Does it bother me? Of course not. I think it's overkill and I think the OP is being cute.

    But ok, I'll play ...

    @OP: great, you now know that people have actually taken part in FFA pvp and hit unsuspecting people. Now what?

    Hey OP, I have question for you. Have you "murdered anyone" in game?


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,936
    Amathe said:
    Limnic said:
    Amathe said:
    Limnic said:

    In chess that's a voluntary situation where the two participants are engaged in conflict already. 
    I'm pretty sure no one is being compelled to play PvP games against their will. And conflict is intrinsic to PvP games. 
    That drags out it's own argument regarding styles of play integrated into games and how that affects the kind of choices or compromises players may see themselves "forced" to make for the sake of finding games they will generally enjoy. 

    The short of that being "If a player finds X game that caters to most of their interests, save for the fact that it's OWPvP as a focus for it's endgame, they may still bite the bullet and handle that part of the experience for as long as they can because of the rest of the user experience."

    We certainly have agency and choice, but that does not mean we have optimal choices.
    Sorry I don't buy any of that. If someone plays a PvP game, they must accept the consequences. The fact that they somehow don't really want to PvP is not my problem. 
    I agree with this. That's why there is no such thing as forced pvp. It's the most ridiculous assertion.

    And I suppose someone forced these players to buy the game as well!
    immodium
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,443
    edited June 2019
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    Horusra said:
    Murder is a legal term for unlawful killing.  Is there a law in the game that says you can not kill a player?  If not then you have never "murdered" someone in a game.
    Oh come on, it is pretty clear what the topic is, why the drama over semantics? You and a bunch of other absurd posters questioning the topic. Obviously you never played Ultima Online where if you turned red you were considered a murderer. 


    Y'all need to relax. 
    Language can be very evocative and the use of the word murder seems extreme.

    And then it begs the question "what is the point?" Why does he want to know? Ok great, some of us have engaged in pvp and in some cases unprovoked pvp. Now what?
    read what define a murder and then put it in place, killing someone is considered murder, don't matter if he can ressurect later, you still did the act of murder, get over the semantics and get truth, if one word is too extreme you are not fit to survive the world
    The "act of murder?" I think the world might be a bit too extreme for you if you take it that far. It's just player "killing" and no adjusted person takes it farther than that. Does it bother me? Of course not. I think it's overkill and I think the OP is being cute.

    But ok, I'll play ...

    @OP: great, you now know that people have actually taken part in FFA pvp and hit unsuspecting people. Now what?

    Hey OP, I have question for you. Have you "murdered anyone" in game?


    no extreme, it is what it is, calling apples oranges don't make then be oranges

    you is the one who think its extreme calling apples apples
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,968
    Murder in a computer game would be an act of roleplay.  Such as assassin role-playing contracts on other players or bounty hunters killing another player that doesn't have a bounty so their actions were unsanctioned by authority.

    I would think a more interesting question would be talking about when you went out of your way to kill another character because you were provoked to an extreme point.  For example, going after a bounty hunter in SWG who killed another character in the middle of their wedding ceremony.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    edited June 2019
    @Sovrath @Amathe
    Iunno. If that was one of the few games that catered their interest on a broad spectrum, then it's again just the case of the individual coping with the PvP until a point at which it gets too much in the way of the rest of the experience. Being forced to play was not part of the statement, just accepting compromise due to lack of good alternative.

    That obviously does not put the onus on other players to care, but it does highlight gaps in user experience and play style choices. Things that may not be getting catered to.
  • rush1984rush1984 Member UncommonPosts: 369
    i have, but not in game
    alkarionlogVermillion_RaventhalKyleranAlBQuirky
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,382
    In Ultima Online Beta... there was a small fenced area of rabbits that were killable for skill gain.  I went in, shut the gate and started leveling up my sword skill on them.  

    This was when MMOs were brand new to most people, so folks would wander by and ask why I was in there and then sometimes join me.

    Being a little shit at the time (still a shit now, just bigger) I invited them in, shut the gate behind them and then murdered them in cold pixel blood.  People even tried to log out, but when they came back I was still there in my bunny slaughterhouse.  Funny seeing ghosts going OoOooOo  while I lure the next person into the cage...

    So yes, I have murdered in game. 

    Would I do that today?  No...  I'd hope not.  (and even if I wanted to my skills are pretty feeble)




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  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,122
    edited June 2019
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Viper482 said:
    Horusra said:
    Murder is a legal term for unlawful killing.  Is there a law in the game that says you can not kill a player?  If not then you have never "murdered" someone in a game.
    Oh come on, it is pretty clear what the topic is, why the drama over semantics? You and a bunch of other absurd posters questioning the topic. Obviously you never played Ultima Online where if you turned red you were considered a murderer. 


    Y'all need to relax. 
    Language can be very evocative and the use of the word murder seems extreme.

    And then it begs the question "what is the point?" Why does he want to know? Ok great, some of us have engaged in pvp and in some cases unprovoked pvp. Now what?
    read what define a murder and then put it in place, killing someone is considered murder, don't matter if he can ressurect later, you still did the act of murder, get over the semantics and get truth, if one word is too extreme you are not fit to survive the world
    The "act of murder?" I think the world might be a bit too extreme for you if you take it that far. It's just player "killing" and no adjusted person takes it farther than that. Does it bother me? Of course not. I think it's overkill and I think the OP is being cute.

    But ok, I'll play ...

    @OP: great, you now know that people have actually taken part in FFA pvp and hit unsuspecting people. Now what?

    Hey OP, I have question for you. Have you "murdered anyone" in game?


    Lol, I am only using murder because it's specific.  Just to avoid confusion.  I think killing some nameless guy on a PvP battlefield is different killing some guy for his stuff, just because or someone who pissed you off.
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