Because real risk vs reward doesnt appeal to everyone. We liked the old MMORPG because it was hard and the community was good. if you acted up you didnt get groups anymore soloing was hard so it required for people to not be asshats. People like the new ones because they are basically single player games masking as mmos you dont make any real bonds with people so its fun and easy to be a douche.
Old School MMOs weren't hard. They were not more difficult than the current ones. They were just filled with time sinks and people equated "time consuming" with difficult. The two are not the same thing.
EQ was never a hard game, it just had strict requirements built into the gameplay and content design.
And it was balanced in a way that made it take as long as the developers could muster to achieve anything in the game.
They loosened up on this later (especially 2003 onwards), where the game basically became not unlike what WoW and EQ2 were at launched - except with far less actual Quest-based content in it.
I can always tell when someone didn't really play old school MMOs....They were harder....in EQ, my druid could barely solo even cons and I was usually out of mana when the fight ended..In WoW, I could easily take a mob 4-5 levels higher and often stronger than that.....In EQ if you were soloing and got adds it often meant death or at least fleeing. In WoW an add was no problem.
Well old doesn't last forever,people in general like to see new. A simple comparison,old houses were built with real 2x4's or real 2/6's,so the wood was better,so then people say well why not buy older homes then if they were built better,it is simply the NEW looks better in a mental state of mind.
What kind of car do you have,well an old Mercedes 2002 doesn't sound as good as a brand new off the lot 2020 Hybrid SUV,no matter what make it is.
Old cars were built with real steel,now tons of paper thin with loads of plastic.
It is like asking a mom,why are you buying new clothes for your kid,you don't like the old ones you said at the time were the best?They simply like to shop,buy new stuff for the kids even if most of it is a waste of money.
it is like trying to figure out the mental state of each individual,why are you doing that,why are you doing this.
It is not even a matter of being better as that is an EXTREMELY VAGUE term.Some "systems",some of the designs were better.Like obviously graphics now are much better,more controller designs,more keybinding games instead of no choice.A lot of the time new games are just as good,identical but why on earth would i want to buy the exact same thing ...AGAIN,just because i like wasting money?
As we get MUCH better gpu's,cpu's,overall better tech,better tools,better engines,we SHOULD be seeing MUCH better games and THAT is the point.I goes even further,after devs and their staff have designed certain systems,it should become easier and easier,over time they SHOULD be able to figure out to do ideas better,learn new ways to code and implement ideas,they should basically be LEARNING how to design and make games BETTER.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
<snip> As we get MUCH better gpu's,cpu's,overall better tech,better tools,better engines,we SHOULD be seeing MUCH better games and THAT is the point.I goes even further,after devs and their staff have designed certain systems,it should become easier and easier,over time they SHOULD be able to figure out to do ideas better,learn new ways to code and implement ideas,they should basically be LEARNING how to design and make games BETTER.
And yet... Games today sure look pretty!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Although conspiracy theories and cause/effect narratives are popular, it isn't that difficult to explain: Because new shiny.
Every single MMO I ever left, I left to go play a new game to see what it was like. By the time I figured out that game, another game released and I had to go see what that one was about. And so the last ten years have just gone by like a zap of lightning and the list of MMOs I've played is longer than my arm.
MMO's will always be judged by their graphics, i know some purists will say it doesn't matter, but for most i think it probably does. Eve Online can be considered to be an 'old school' game, its been around for well over a decade after all, but graphically its one of the top games, its what happens when developers keep on pushing what can be done and improving the players experience where possible, they mostly do a good job though i can't say i am entirely happy with the current version of the game. Everquest has a very small but dedicated playerbase, can you imagine how much larger that playerbase would be if Everquest had BDO level of graphics? i think the main reason why old school games are not as popular is mostly down to aging graphics. If they were to 'remaster' games like DAOC or Everquest to the kind of graphical detail you find in BDO, i would totally play them again, why wouldn't i?
Everquest has a very small but dedicated playerbase, can you imagine how much larger that playerbase would be if Everquest had BDO level of graphics? i think the main reason why old school games are not as popular is mostly down to aging graphics.
...if that was true, we would see new games with better graphics that are closer to EQ in their design.
However, the trend in new MMOs shifted away from EQ formula because there was better model to follow thus I highly doubt there would be many playing 'remastered' versions.
Wow, Eve, Lineage, runescape are very old games. And popular to this days.
Funding is probably one of the reason old school games are no longer popular. When a game goes in decline, funding will be cut so it aggravate the decline.
If you think The Godfather is the best movie ever, why don't you just watch that movie over and over forever. If your favorite meal is steak with a baked potato why don't you just only eat that for dinner for the rest of your life.
It is because everything gets old no matter how good it is. People want variety. This is a silly question.
Probably the reason why generic themepark are more popular. They have so much content if people get sick of doing one activity, people switch to another activity.
If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game. If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.
You were never safe anywhere really unless you were seriously overlevelled.
We often agree but on this I will have to disagree. This doesn't make a game "hard". It just puts a hard cap on what you can do. I personally call this "bad design", but hey, I come from UO and AC1.
I totally get what you're saying about the hard cap and how everything would fail as a result when you tried to take on a creature far above your level and that does not happen in Asheron's Call. My limited knowledge of the game during my brief sojourn does it no credit since I was not in the right frame of mind to appreciate the game, I played it when I was upset with my guild in Everquest and as a 'looking for another game' quest which didn't pan out as I was too addicted to EQ.
What I meant about by being never safe was because of the constant trains and high level creatures that could descend on you and you had to be careful where you sat to recover mana something my wizard was constantly doing and even when travelling the fact that the invisibility could drop at any time was a constant worry. The game felt like a real world. How you would feel worrying about turning a corner and running into some creature you could not hope to kill. The adrenaline rushing through you as you walked past some mobs praying the invisibility held. That made the game difficult. It was difficult to navigate without maps and spells that help like invisibility and even then there were creatures who could see through it too. The game wasn't easy at all.
Of course years later you can look back and think and even consider it easy because you now know everything about it but it was my very first online MMORPG. I, like many, found the experience challenging and engaging and I have not come across many MMORPGs I can say I have found difficult because of the many features that have already been pointed out by others and few by yours truly.
If you think The Godfather is the best movie ever, why don't you just watch that movie over and over forever. If your favorite meal is steak with a baked potato why don't you just only eat that for dinner for the rest of your life.
It is because everything gets old no matter how good it is. People want variety. This is a silly question.
Probably the reason why generic themepark are more popular. They have so much content if people get sick of doing one activity, people switch to another activity.
If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game. If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.
If I got sick of "camping" in EQ, I worked on my crafting. If I got sick of crafting in EQ, I found a language learning group. If I got sick of language learning in EQ, I'd explore. If I got sick of exploring in EQ, I'd find a dungeon group. Dungeons were sprinkled all throughout the game, not just at higher levels.
Notice a few "non-combat" activities there? Old MMORPGs had them
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
If you think The Godfather is the best movie ever, why don't you just watch that movie over and over forever. If your favorite meal is steak with a baked potato why don't you just only eat that for dinner for the rest of your life.
It is because everything gets old no matter how good it is. People want variety. This is a silly question.
Probably the reason why generic themepark are more popular. They have so much content if people get sick of doing one activity, people switch to another activity.
If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game. If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.
If I got sick of "camping" in EQ, I worked on my crafting. If I got sick of crafting in EQ, I found a language learning group. If I got sick of language learning in EQ, I'd explore. If I got sick of exploring in EQ, I'd find a dungeon group. Dungeons were sprinkled all throughout the game, not just at higher levels.
Notice a few "non-combat" activities there? Old MMORPGs had them
Even more so in Ultima Online actually.
You could have a working efficient and useful 100% non combat character. Not really true in Everquest.
Weird.
In POE I can clear maps, and kill everything.
Or, I can dungeon delve/mine, and kill everything.
Or I can do temple runs...and kill everything.
Or I can join a PVP arena, and of course kill everyone.
Or...I can craft new gear....naw f-that, hit the Trade web site, buy some awesome new gear, and go into the Uber lab to...you guessed it, kill everything....
Wait, there's more, every three months I can join a new league and....joy of joy's, kill everything all over again.
I found my niche.....murder hobo extraordinaire......
When the doors to the dungeon close the monsters find out I'm not locked in here with them, they're locked in here with me!
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's a combination of things. But the main one for me is the game looks and feels old. It's like going back to play the old BASIC games. It was fun in the day, but feels pointless to play for long.
Like I want the original Deus Ex back with just an update of graphics and sound. No "new concepts" or what a kid today thinks in "kewl". I want to remember the game as it was, not what people think it was (as it wasn't ... it was clunky; there were bugs;there were clear exploits ... but because it was messed up it's what made it fun).
Games now is this: stay on track. Don't move outside the red lines or get banned. Beat the clock, hurry, you have but 5 seconds (if your internet connection goes down [because so many exploited it], tough luck (that includes progressing afterwards -- you may have to wait 6 months for the SOBs to patch their game). << PAY HERE >> to continue (or wait a day).
Yeah, just an update on graphics and sound and leave all the other junk out.
It is like asking me,if Wow is more popular why am i not playing it?
Well because maybe i feel it shouldn't be more popular,just like some old games i don't consider that good but some are.It is always hit n miss there is no stereotyping old versus new,you have to dissect each game individually.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If you think The Godfather is the best movie ever, why don't you just watch that movie over and over forever. If your favorite meal is steak with a baked potato why don't you just only eat that for dinner for the rest of your life.
It is because everything gets old no matter how good it is. People want variety. This is a silly question.
Probably the reason why generic themepark are more popular. They have so much content if people get sick of doing one activity, people switch to another activity.
If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game. If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.
If I got sick of "camping" in EQ, I worked on my crafting. If I got sick of crafting in EQ, I found a language learning group. If I got sick of language learning in EQ, I'd explore. If I got sick of exploring in EQ, I'd find a dungeon group. Dungeons were sprinkled all throughout the game, not just at higher levels.
Notice a few "non-combat" activities there? Old MMORPGs had them
Even more so in Ultima Online actually.
You could have a working efficient and useful 100% non combat character. Not really true in Everquest.
I think this is why Osrs is still relevant today. The sheer amount of content for every playstyle and doesn't limit you. That is what most modern mmorpgs are missing that and wanting to streamline everything so its easy. Being intuitive and in depth is usually hard to find.
If you think The Godfather is the best movie ever, why don't you just watch that movie over and over forever. If your favorite meal is steak with a baked potato why don't you just only eat that for dinner for the rest of your life.
It is because everything gets old no matter how good it is. People want variety. This is a silly question.
Probably the reason why generic themepark are more popular. They have so much content if people get sick of doing one activity, people switch to another activity.
If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game. If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.
If I got sick of "camping" in EQ, I worked on my crafting. If I got sick of crafting in EQ, I found a language learning group. If I got sick of language learning in EQ, I'd explore. If I got sick of exploring in EQ, I'd find a dungeon group. Dungeons were sprinkled all throughout the game, not just at higher levels.
Notice a few "non-combat" activities there? Old MMORPGs had them
Even more so in Ultima Online actually.
You could have a working efficient and useful 100% non combat character. Not really true in Everquest.
I dont' find that a good thing. I heard people's comment... well in this type of game you can play how ever you want. For example you can just mine... or just craft... or just buy and sell houses... etc
That must be pretty boring to just do one thing. That being said, that is what alt is for. So you can create many alt and do various activity.
old school mmos were real mmos, there was a persistant world 1000's of people played on same server, you actualy saw hundreds of other people in same area....... todays 'mmos' are zoned or are 32 vs 32 room based match maker games and are called 'mmos'.
If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game. If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.
Thats indeed one thing I loved about Vanguard.
If I was sick of soloing I could group.
If I was sick of one area well theres plenty others.
If I didnt want to adventure I could craft.
If I didnt want to craft or adventure I could harvest.
If I didnt want to do any of this, well there was diplomacy.
There also was fishing as well. Apparently much better than in WoW, I've been told. I wouldnt know and dont care, I find fishing dull beyond description.
Anyway theres also always the global chat to keep you entertained, too.
P.s.: Somehow forgot raiding. That was certainly very important, too. Dont remember ever being sick of raiding though.
Everquest has a very small but dedicated playerbase, can you imagine how much larger that playerbase would be if Everquest had BDO level of graphics? i think the main reason why old school games are not as popular is mostly down to aging graphics.
...if that was true, we would see new games with better graphics that are closer to EQ in their design.
However, the trend in new MMOs shifted away from EQ formula because there was better model to follow thus I highly doubt there would be many playing 'remastered' versions.
Old ways won't open new doors.
I think its more because it would mean more than just working on improving the game engine, it would require an entirely new engine to support it, but do you think that nobody would be interested in playing EQ or DAOC if the game was 'remastered' using UE4 or something? making a good game doesn't mean reinventing the wheel after all.
You know what I love about Vanguard? That it doesn't and never will exist again. I think it was the moment I went from idiot child to idiot adult. It was my Star Citizen if you will.
I think its more because it would mean more than just working on improving the game engine, it would require an entirely new engine to support it, but do you think that nobody would be interested in playing EQ or DAOC if the game was 'remastered' using UE4 or something? making a good game doesn't mean reinventing the wheel after all.
When you asked for 'BDO graphics' it would indeed require to make the game from scratch.
I am not saying that nobody would be interested, just that it would not justify the cost of development.
Back in the late 90's and even very early 00's the net was filled with geeks. Many of us were tabletop gamers and enjoyed complexity and depth... The games were not necessarily 'better' but they were different and we thought the evolution of the mmorpg would continue in the same direction.
Within a few years the net went mainstream. It changed everything including mmorpgs which could capture far more money and a far greater audience by courting the new mainstream user. Each year the people like us became less and less of a % of the internet and we were forgotten.
Man, I can't help but put in my two cents on these threads.. I couldn't vote on your post because the reason why I don't play old school games isn't listed. The reason for me is none of them have new content and still exist in their original form. They've all changed to try and be more like modern MMOs or they've introduced features that have upset the fundamental fun gameplay it once had. I went back and played P1999 for 8 years, and I LOVED it. It is still the only thing I do play from time to time but considering I played it in its day and now I've put in another 8 years playing the same 2 expansions worth of content I've just exhausted the game of what it can offer. So for me P1999 could offer everything I need if they put out expansions that didn't alter the core of what makes the game fun. I would go back if they introduced Shadows of Luclin, for example, but if they could just alter that expansion enough that they could take the parts out I didn't like because Shadows of Luclin is where the game started to change direction. Certain features were introduced that ruined the core of what I loved about the game. Give me an old school game with new content that doesn't change the game and I'd gladly play that over any modern MMO. Looking forward to Pantheon... I think that's what I truly need.
Comments
A simple comparison,old houses were built with real 2x4's or real 2/6's,so the wood was better,so then people say well why not buy older homes then if they were built better,it is simply the NEW looks better in a mental state of mind.
What kind of car do you have,well an old Mercedes 2002 doesn't sound as good as a brand new off the lot 2020 Hybrid SUV,no matter what make it is.
Old cars were built with real steel,now tons of paper thin with loads of plastic.
It is like asking a mom,why are you buying new clothes for your kid,you don't like the old ones you said at the time were the best?They simply like to shop,buy new stuff for the kids even if most of it is a waste of money.
it is like trying to figure out the mental state of each individual,why are you doing that,why are you doing this.
It is not even a matter of being better as that is an EXTREMELY VAGUE term.Some "systems",some of the designs were better.Like obviously graphics now are much better,more controller designs,more keybinding games instead of no choice.A lot of the time new games are just as good,identical but why on earth would i want to buy the exact same thing ...AGAIN,just because i like wasting money?
As we get MUCH better gpu's,cpu's,overall better tech,better tools,better engines,we SHOULD be seeing MUCH better games and THAT is the point.I goes even further,after devs and their staff have designed certain systems,it should become easier and easier,over time they SHOULD be able to figure out to do ideas better,learn new ways to code and implement ideas,they should basically be LEARNING how to design and make games BETTER.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
change my mind.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Everquest has a very small but dedicated playerbase, can you imagine how much larger that playerbase would be if Everquest had BDO level of graphics? i think the main reason why old school games are not as popular is mostly down to aging graphics.
If they were to 'remaster' games like DAOC or Everquest to the kind of graphical detail you find in BDO, i would totally play them again, why wouldn't i?
However, the trend in new MMOs shifted away from EQ formula because there was better model to follow thus I highly doubt there would be many playing 'remastered' versions.
Old ways won't open new doors.
Funding is probably one of the reason old school games are no longer popular. When a game goes in decline, funding will be cut so it aggravate the decline.
If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game. If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.
What I meant about by being never safe was because of the constant trains and high level creatures that could descend on you and you had to be careful where you sat to recover mana something my wizard was constantly doing and even when travelling the fact that the invisibility could drop at any time was a constant worry. The game felt like a real world. How you would feel worrying about turning a corner and running into some creature you could not hope to kill. The adrenaline rushing through you as you walked past some mobs praying the invisibility held. That made the game difficult. It was difficult to navigate without maps and spells that help like invisibility and even then there were creatures who could see through it too. The game wasn't easy at all.
Of course years later you can look back and think and even consider it easy because you now know everything about it but it was my very first online MMORPG. I, like many, found the experience challenging and engaging and I have not come across many MMORPGs I can say I have found difficult because of the many features that have already been pointed out by others and few by yours truly.
Notice a few "non-combat" activities there? Old MMORPGs had them
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
In POE I can clear maps, and kill everything.
Or, I can dungeon delve/mine, and kill everything.
Or I can do temple runs...and kill everything.
Or I can join a PVP arena, and of course kill everyone.
Or...I can craft new gear....naw f-that, hit the Trade web site, buy some awesome new gear, and go into the Uber lab to...you guessed it, kill everything....
Wait, there's more, every three months I can join a new league and....joy of joy's, kill everything all over again.
I found my niche.....murder hobo extraordinaire......
When the doors to the dungeon close the monsters find out I'm not locked in here with them, they're locked in here with me!
Cheers!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Well because maybe i feel it shouldn't be more popular,just like some old games i don't consider that good but some are.It is always hit n miss there is no stereotyping old versus new,you have to dissect each game individually.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
MurderHerd
That must be pretty boring to just do one thing. That being said, that is what alt is for. So you can create many alt and do various activity.
I am not saying that nobody would be interested, just that it would not justify the cost of development.
Back in the late 90's and even very early 00's the net was filled with geeks. Many of us were tabletop gamers and enjoyed complexity and depth... The games were not necessarily 'better' but they were different and we thought the evolution of the mmorpg would continue in the same direction.
Within a few years the net went mainstream. It changed everything including mmorpgs which could capture far more money and a far greater audience by courting the new mainstream user. Each year the people like us became less and less of a % of the internet and we were forgotten.
=(
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