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If old school MMOs were better....why aren't they still the most popular?

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  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,680
    Torval said:
    Sovrath said:
    Amathe said:
    P.S. It reminds me of shampoo. :)

    Normally my wife does the shopping in our family. A few weeks ago I went. I just wanted shampoo. The same shampoo I have used all my life. Damned if I could find it. There were about 20 variations. Shampoo with ____. Shampoo with ____ AND _____. Shampoo for _____ hair. On and on and on. 

    I was overwhelmed by the choices. Also baffled as to their merits.

    The market is similarly flooded with mmorpgs and games pretending to be mmorpgs. 

    Older games may be getting lost in the shuffle amongst hundreds of newer ones. 
    um, don't leave us hanging, what did you do about the shampoo!?!?!?!?  :o
    You need to buy the rest of this story from his cash-shop! 
    And pay $15 a month to have it strung out over the next 10 years, but only if you listen with 40 other people at the same time.
    /LFM @Amathe Shampoo Story: Need 1 listener and 2 interrupter. No noobs Link Achievement. Most have straight hair! 
    TorvalAmatheblueturtle13AlBQuirky
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Song of the Week: Blackfield by Blackfield from Blackfield (2005)
    • Currently Playing: Devil May Cry 1
    • Favorite Drink: Bruichladdich Black Art 5th 1992
    • Gaming Timeline: Arcade, Commodore 64, Amiga 500, SEGA, IBM, PS, PC, PS2, More PCs, PS3, Giant PC, PS4, No More PCs, PS4 Pro.
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member EpicPosts: 3,468
    Amathe said:
    Sovrath said:
    Amathe said:
    um, don't leave us hanging, what did you do about the shampoo!?!?!?!?  :o
    Funny you should ask. After much searching there appeared to be a Classic Head & Shoulders. Problem solved, no? No. There is a Classic Clean Collection, with three different kinds! 

    So I basically did the shampoo equivalent of rage quitting, went home empty handed, and asked my wife to please get something next week. I'm using whatever she picked. Can't even bear to read the label. 
    You know, you could switch to real poo. 
    TorvalAmatheAlBQuirky


    “I was, in days gone by, a believer. But, alas, I came to this beleaguered land and the God in me just … evaporated. Let us change our toast, then, to the God that has forgotten us.”

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member RarePosts: 2,379
    since when being popular means good? most popular things are cheap
    GdemamiAlBQuirky
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,897
    MMORPGs like women .


    gunklacker
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,314
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    Amathe said:
    Sovrath said:
    Amathe said:
    um, don't leave us hanging, what did you do about the shampoo!?!?!?!?  :o
    Funny you should ask. After much searching there appeared to be a Classic Head & Shoulders. Problem solved, no? No. There is a Classic Clean Collection, with three different kinds! 

    So I basically did the shampoo equivalent of rage quitting, went home empty handed, and asked my wife to please get something next week. I'm using whatever she picked. Can't even bear to read the label. 
    Lat time I was in your predicament I happened to see a cheap jumbo bottle of horse shampoo (one of the perks of living in a semi-rural suburb) and went with it. It seems to work well on us humans too... take that overly specific shampoo coorp.
    I was going to tell him to read the ingredients because they're all the same, much like MMOs. Just pick one you think smells nice and pretend it's better than the rest, much like MMOs. :lol:
    Yeah. The horsey stuff works just fine. Although I have to say I have been eating more carrots and apples than normal lately.
    blueturtle13TorvalSteelhelmAmatheAlBQuirkyRich84
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • HarafnirHarafnir Member UncommonPosts: 1,343
    edited June 12
    Played them enough? Which I think is the most common answer and not added to your little "research". Played AO since beta up until... think I was in last time last year. DaoC since beta, last in two years ago. SWG since beta, played last... hm... made a crafter last year it was online. City of Heroes, up until year before closure. What else... UO since euro release, played last, well ten years ago, it really was about the age there. The only ones I left early was Ryzom and Shadowbane. Earth and Beyond and a bunch of others disappeared before I was finished with them. But stopped because features? That would been the new generation games, not the oldies.
    AlBQuirky

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,481
    edited June 12
    Speaking of Shampoo. 

    What shampoo did Jeffrey Dahmer use? (he was a serial killer that ate his victims)

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    Head & Shoulders :)




    Kyleranblueturtle13GaladournAmatheblastermasterAlBQuirkyAndrewDiceClay
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,001
    Another combo vote from me.  I'll even attempt to put some order of importance on the various options.
    • Too slow/grindy.  Probably my biggest complaint, especially in games designed to be multi-player.  The more dependent the character is on others, the more they are also dependent on the LFG factor.
    • Lack of modern features (i.e. auction house, group/raid finder, modern UI).  Especially fast travel.  Many modern features improved the ability to get players together.
    • Populations are too low now.  For games like EQ1 and LotRO (which I still play regularly), the lack of a population at my character's level makes finding groups extremely difficult, especially with usually less than 2 hours playing time.  The low populations caused the games to become more solo than before.
    • Graphics.  Not really important to a degree.  I'm fine with EQ1 and LotRO graphics, but AO and similar games just cause too much eye stress for me.
    • The modern MMO model is just better.  Only remotely applicable.  The improvements made by games has been impressive, especially in the QoL features.  But the core game hasn't changed.
    • My favorite old school MMO(s) went in a direction I did not like.  No importance at all to me.  If anything, I'd prefer that each generation of games add some new element to the experience that MMORPGs provide.  They haven't.  The entire genre is based around combat, with no other game systems to solve problems.  So for me, I'd say 'the old school hasn't evolved enough'.
    And no poll options for 'I still play old games' or 'I prefer old games'.







    Viper482AlBQuirky

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,330
    Graphics / UI + the direction they have taken them.

    Lineage 2 would be a good example.

    Classic L2 looks terrible and has an awful click to move system instead of wasd, but it was paced correctly and felt like i was playing an MMORPG.

    Modern version, however, was like an ugly looking modern WoW with linear questing and accelerated experience gain. I plowed through trivial quests and attained a level 30 or so at which point i began to question my motives to keep going any further. The only reason i got even that far was that i wanted to know if the game really starts at some point. It never did.

    Bring back the old school design with modern graphics and UI and develop it away from FPS and ARPGs genres. Only then there may be hope to revitalize the genre.
    Viper482
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,727
    edited June 12
    Why I quit playing:
    Lineage 1 - nerfed my bugbear Wizzy, no respec option.

    DAOC
    1st time - Shadowbane released
    2nd time - Trials of Atlantis / New Frontiers changed gameplay 
    3rd time - Classic server, no TOA, but removed ability to buff bot
    4th time - Uthgard shut down
    5th time - Uthgard obsession with 2.69 RSV purity drove all away
    6th time - Phoenix great QOL improvements,  but not a fan of RVR, pointless keep trading, prefer FFA red servers.

    Shadowbane - crap design saw one alliance roll entire server via 3 am fights

    Lineage 2 - the grind...oh so long...went back a few times, the grind...with cash shop.

    CoH - Weird game others love but I just don't get, PVE only and no PVP.
    CoV - still a weird game I don't get with bad PVP.

    WOW
    1st time - burned out raiding Rag in early Vanilla.
    2nd time - BC release destroyed my raiding guild & made all progress invalid.
    3rd time - Cataclysm, ugh,  enough said.

    EVE
    1) Kinda let the subs just run for 10 years, ducking in and out to try various other games along the way.
    2) Two years ago, closed all 6 subs - remote boosting change coupled with CCP refusal to refund skill points for ships I no longer would fly.
    3) Last summer - resubbed three accounts for 3 months, couldn't find anything fresh to do.

    TorvalAmatheScotViper482

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,771
    Likely because they are limited and hard to get into.  I tried playing EW and DAoC a few years ago.  My God the UI. The goggles. They do nothing.  

    I survived without cellphone in the past but now?  Nah, my job almost literally requires one and we aren't techically allowed to use them at work. Kind of the same concept with older games.  While I can be fun to navigate with a map... why would you?!?
    TorvalViper482
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,376
    Likely because they are limited and hard to get into.  I tried playing EW and DAoC a few years ago.  My God the UI. The goggles. They do nothing.  

    I survived without cellphone in the past but now?  Nah, my job almost literally requires one and we aren't techically allowed to use them at work. Kind of the same concept with older games.  While I can be fun to navigate with a map... why would you?!?
    Nice Simpsons reference.
    Mendel



  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,110
    Why I quit:

    EQ - Played a gimp ranger and got tired (at level 57) of trying to find a group.

    SWG - Other people (not in general - specific ones) annoyed me; lack of sufficient content

    CoH/CoV - Other people annoyed me.

    GW1 - Game became tiresome

    GW2 - Had some computer trouble. Was killing the frame rate. Also hated the idea of an expansion. And other people annoyed me.

    Warhammer - Thought the game sucked. 

    Champions Online - Thought the game sucked.

    WoW:

    First Time - Got to max level quickly and got bored;

    Second Time - Nerfs, and other people annoyed me; and

    Third Time - Nerfs, and other people annoyed me

    SWTOR - Other people annoyed me, and game became tiresome

    Vanguard (Beta) - Did not enjoy the game. At all. 

    FFXI - Thought the game was stupid. That floating stuffed animal that you have to deal with really killed it for me. Tried to strangle it, but failed. Was a short ride.

    Secret World: Ok this is really embarrassing. And it's on me. There was some kind of test you had to take to be keyed for the hardest encounters. As a dps character, I had to fight this guy where I had to run and gun in a circle. But I can't run in a circle. I tried and tried. I felt like that kid in the Breakfast Club who couldn't make a lamp.

    Those were the main ones.
    SteelhelmTorvalViper482

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,481
    i quit the following:

    1) WoW = wasn't going to raid to get better gear to raid harder dungeons to get better gear to raid harder dungeons. Hamster on a wheel . . . no thanks. 

    2) L2  = due to the huge grind, i figured it would take me 33 hours to go from lvl 70 to 71 as a gladiator and i was like, i'm done. Plus the bots. 

    3) EVE = quit games in general at that time, kind of wish i never did. 

    4) Entropia = still playing on and off . . . real cash economy keeps me coming back and the $10 i accrue a month from it. 

    5) Runes of Magic = stale and raiding was boring and played a new game

    6)  Neverwinter = got to a point where i got bored doing dailies, felt like work, so i quit, once i quit a game, i very rarely go back to it (sans Path of Exile)

    7) SWG = studying for a big exam, stopped playing, kind of wish i never quit but then when i thought about going back, they closed it. Low population as well. 

    Haven't really played another MMO seriously from that point on. 

    I'd be super excited about an MMORPG If they were to remake SWG with modern graphics, i'd be all over that. I'd also try star citizen if that ever comes out. I am not interested in any other MMO, not pantheon, not crowfall, not anything else. 

    I would be interested in chronicles of elyria only because of the concept not that it will ever come out. Basically, give me a cool innovative novel concept and i'll be back otherwise, i'm good with PoE and SC 2. 

    Cryomatrix


    AmatheViper482Kyleran
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 942
    Most people won't play the same game for 20 years unless they keep getting quality update and expansion.  

    Also people might like to play new games because there is endless possibility and you won't be behind if you play older games.
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 4,831
    Gaming is too diverse to stick with one thing forever and I never intend to do so. You'll miss a hell of a lot if you did that.

    That's my simple take on it.
    Viper482
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 813
    For me, I still play old mmorpgs.  Some more than others.  Some I am no longer allowed to.  I used to play AO and AoC heavily in my rotation, but Funcom cut me off and won't tell me why and demanded I send them a picture of my ID to continue being their customer - so I stopped being their customer because I am not willing to send pictures of anything to anyone to be their customer.  

    Other games I love just have too much bloat.  I would have loved to have gotten back into LotRO with their new servers, but only four months between adding expansions ruled me out.  I love DDO and play often, but the reincarnation grind and them adding new races and iconics means I get more and more behind.  

    I still play DCUO, Champions Online, TERA, EQ2, and some other mmorpgs once and a while.  


    So - there can be a catch 22 for older games and their perspective audiences.  Make current players happy by releasing new content regularly, or have so much bloat like LotRO (and probably other games like ESO) where you reward people for clearing all content, but you don't think clearing the content is fun, and more and more content added is just more and more a hassle to clog through, so you skip the whole game instead.

    Viper482
  • klash2defklash2def Member RarePosts: 1,422
    edited June 12
    The old games are not better but are romanticized because of the communities. You were younger, probably no kids, had more time, so more commitment to those games. It's funny many of the old school people talk about the community being better but not the actual games.

    Let's be honest, the old games are crap. That's why most of you are not playing but complaining about lack of...you miss the community. Janky Mechanics and design forced a lot of these communities to form, and this is before the youtube tutorial era.. so yea... nostalgia. 

    As someone said, the games will always be around and even more niche than before, but don't expect it to go mainstream ever again. If you are a true fan of the old stuff then really you should be happy to just be able to play those games.. because you still can play currently in 2019. 

    But we all know it's not the game you care about is it?

    You miss your old friends from that part of your life. It was never about the games. It's about the community developed in those games and because this is the thing people remember, they romanticize the actual "Old School MMO"...

    I am someone who played the old stuff and the new stuff, and I'm finding the communities although different, are both super connected but in different ways. You have to get involved, get social. Youtube, Twitter, Discord, even Facebook groups. 

    For instance, I'm in a guild that plays several games together. We use Discord to stay connected, and its a blast. Destiny, RDO, Warframe, ESO, SWTOR, FFXIV, WoW, etc.. we have people all over. Raiders to Roleplayers.  Back in the day, games had their own communities, they didn't really cross over like that. That's different now. 

    I don't think it's healthy for the community as a whole to romanticize the old so much because it causes people to miss what's currently happening right now. If you are unaware of right now, how can you possibly move forward?

    I got a lot of shit for saying stuff like Destiny is an MMO  but I was also looking ahead. Bungie now calling its flagship an MMO is a big win for the genre. I don't see how you could see it as otherwise.

    As we always say at work, appreciate the past, be aware of right now and always look ahead. 

    IselinTorvalViper482KyleranTemp0
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,426
    #1) The old MMOs through expansions and patches have often given up what made them great, embracing the same formula as the modern MMOs but with less graphics.

    2) The MMO you look back fondly on has closed its doors. 

    3) The MMO either has gone into maintenance mode or has really low end expansions now due to lower budgets.

    4) You have done pretty much everything in the game and everything you do now is a rehash and hence boring.

    5) Inability to swallow the low graphics etc of an old game.

    6) Not having the time available to really play such an MMO in the way you had.

    7) Your friends have moved on.
     
    Viper482Temp0
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,314
    klash2def said:
    The old games are not better but are romanticized because of the communities. You were younger, probably no kids, had more time, so more commitment to those games. It's funny many of the old school people talk about the community being better but not the actual games.

    Let's be honest, the old games are crap. That's why most of you are not playing but complaining about lack of...you miss the community. Janky Mechanics and design forced a lot of these communities to form, and this is before the youtube tutorial era.. so yea... nostalgia. 

    As someone said, the games will always be around and even more niche than before, but don't expect it to go mainstream ever again. If you are a true fan of the old stuff then really you should be happy to just be able to play those games.. because you still can play currently in 2019. 

    But we all know it's not the game you care about is it?

    You miss your old friends from that part of your life. It was never about the games. It's about the community developed in those games and because this is the thing people remember, they romanticize the actual "Old School MMO"...

    I am someone who played the old stuff and the new stuff, and I'm finding the communities although different, are both super connected but in different ways. You have to get involved, get social. Youtube, Twitter, Discord, even Facebook groups. 

    For instance, I'm in a guild that plays several games together. We use Discord to stay connected, and its a blast. Destiny, RDO, Warframe, ESO, SWTOR, FFXIV, WoW, etc.. we have people all over. Raiders to Roleplayers.  Back in the day, games had their own communities, they didn't really cross over like that. That's different now. 

    I don't think it's healthy for the community as a whole to romanticize the old so much because it causes people to miss what's currently happening right now. If you are unaware of right now, how can you possibly move forward?

    I got a lot of shit for saying stuff like Destiny is an MMO  but I was also looking ahead. Bungie now calling its flagship an MMO is a big win for the genre. I don't see how you could see it as otherwise.

    As we always say at work, appreciate the past, be aware of right now and always look ahead. 

    Things that early MMOs did that led to extra "socializing":

    • Free for all looting: you grab it first, it's yours! This was usually followed by chat messages that began with "hey asshole..."
    • No secure trading between players whatsoever - you either paid the gold first or he gave you the item first but someone had to take that leap of faith (yes kids, this is the way Asheron's Call actually did trading for a very long time.) Lots of socializing opportunities arose from that: sometimes you made a friend and sometimes you spammed the chat channel raging about so and so being a fucking thief... to which someone would inevitably reply "Language!"
    • No shared bank space or even bank for that matter. You kept your spare stuff on characters you didn't actually play, A.K.A. "mules." How did you transfer items to your mule? You asked a friend to trade with you, logged off your main, logged in with your mule and your friend gave you your stuff back. Either that or he was no longer your friend and now your mortal enemy (optional: repeat raging chat spam from 2 above.) You could also do it by finding what you hoped was an out of the way spot where no one went, dropped your desired transfer items on the ground, logged out your main, logged in your mule and were either really sad because someone came by and looted your stash in the 5 minutes it took the server to log you out/log you in, or were stupidly pleased because the stuff was actually still there!
    • Corpse runs: you died because you couldn't really handle the area you were running through on your way to do something. You re-spawned in your designated re-spawn spot typically miles away and, oh yeah, you dropped several of your equipped items and left them behind in the corpse. You now had to go back to the tough area that killed you not as well equipped to get your corpse... repeat for corpse #2... cue social opportunity (long after you've forgotten why you were running through there in the first place and where you were going): "Oh god! Someone please help me recover my 5 corpses before they de-spawn and I lose all my stuff.... anyone?"
    • Training: (developer 1) "why not put mobs on a leash and let them focus their anger on only the one player that aggroed it?  (developer 2) "Nah, too easy. Let's let it follow the player forever and kill anything in its path." (Digital vandal) "I wonder what would happen if I aggro these 6 golems and just run circles around those 6 players sitting and chatting over there?"... cue social opportunity with one person laughing his ass off and 6 people spitting curses at him.

    Yup, things were definitely more social in them good ole days :)
    klash2defTorvalViper482
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 1,971
    Old school gameplay was better, but you cant milk 18 year old games because the gameplay kicks ass.  Thats why they arent popular, those games are just too old.

    Make a totally polished modern version MMO true to old school gameplay and then.....
  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member UncommonPosts: 438
    A combination of everything along with lack of AAA budgets and features actually being good and implemented along with balancing out playstyles instead of going 1 route or another.

    MurderHerd

  • OldSchoolGamerOldSchoolGamer Member UncommonPosts: 217
    I'm all about earning your loot in a game.  The F2P/Cash Shop/P2W model doesn't do anything for me and pretty much turns me off of a game. The more these games go to the cash shop business model, the less likely I am to play them.  To get me into a game again, SWG 2.0 or WoW 2.0 might do the trick.  Just say'n...
  • zeroscloudzeroscloud Member UncommonPosts: 24
    I still dip into EQ time to time and pay when I do, but the main reason I dont full time it is because i dont want to sink in hundreds of hours into it again when Pantheon is a year or two away.
  • GeekyGeeky Member UncommonPosts: 308
    Old School MMO's (all mmo's) change.  And I've stopped playing them (any/all of them) because the changes ruined the play experience for me.

    I played DAoC on the day of release for about 3 straight years.  I was max character and the game didnt lose it luster until one of the expansion packs changed or introduced something to the game I wholly didn't agree with.  It's been so long I don't remember but it also didn't have the end game I enjoyed.  I liked RvR but it was a neat "something else" for me rather than the end game raiding that I enjoyed.
    Temp0
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