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Is the $550-$700 gaming PC dead?

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Comments

  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,705
    Gdemami said:
    MMOman101 said:
    You are not, because you choose the card that was the next step up in performance tier from the previous generation. 

    I am. No point arguing that.
    Not arguing any point, as all you did was compare cards that should not be compared without any context or conclusion. 
    Gdemami

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,175
    MMOman101 said:
    Not arguing any point, as all you did was compare cards that should not be compared without any context or conclusion. 
    They absolutely should be compared and context was provided, can't make it any more simpler than I already did....
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,099
    MMOman101 said:
    Unless I missed something, I don't see a ~$200 GPU on the market that was released in the last few months or is releasing in the next few.  This seems really bad for the midrange gaming market and for people who don't have a 1k to throw a just a PC, never mind the cost of or peripherals. 
    Yep, you missed something.  Here you go:

    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601330988
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601332298
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601323902

    There are two major effects that have caused video card prices to seem to rise:

    1)  Increasingly powerful integrated GPUs make successors to the cheap, low end GPUs that they used to launch pointless, so they don't exist.
    2)  New process nodes arriving far less frequently allows designing GPUs against far more mature process nodes without them being obsolete.  This makes it possible to build larger, more expensive dies with good yields.

    Formerly, a lineup may have had something like a $50 GPU, a $100 GPU, a $200 GPU, a $300 GPU, and a $500 GPU.  Today, they don't bother building the $50 GPU anymore because it would be slower than the integrated GPU that you get for "free", and they don't necessarily bother with the $100 GPU every generation.  But now because the process nodes last so long, they can build a huge $700 GPU and maybe even a $1000 GPU.

    But that doesn't mean that today's $1000 GPU is a successor to yesterday's $500 GPU, or that today's $500 GPU is a successor to yesterday's $200 GPU.  Today's $500 GPU is a successor to yesterday's $500 GPU, and today's $200 GPU is a successor to yesterday's $200 GPU.  Today's $1000 GPU had no true predecessor, and yesterday's $50 GPU has no successor.

    For example, let's compare AMD's GPUs from the Radeon HD 5000 series to their Global Foundries 14/12 nm lineup of the Radeon RX 400/500 series, plus the Vega cards.

    AMD had four GPUs in the Radeon HD 5000 series:
    Cypress:  334 mm^2, $380
    Juniper:  170 mm^2, $160
    Redwood:  104 mm^2, $100
    Cedar:  59 mm^2, $50

    In something roughly like their current lineup, they had four GPUs, at least if we ignore the refreshes of Polaris 10 becoming 20 becoming 30 and so forth:
    Vega 10:  486 mm^2, $500
    Polaris 10:  232 mm^2, $240
    Polaris 11:  123 mm^2, $140
    Polaris 12:  101 mm^2, $80

    Now let's take the names off of the parts and just sort by die size:
    486 mm^2, $500
    334 mm^2, $380
    232 mm^2, $240
    170 mm^2, $160
    123 mm^2, $140
    104 mm^2, $100
    101 mm^2, $80
    59 mm^2, $50

    No obvious outliers there, are there?  Whatever you get, you're paying right around $1 per mm^2.  We're comparing AMD's latest at launch MSRP (the cards can be had for much cheaper today) to a series in which they were renowned for having dropped prices sharply.  And we're also ignoring about seven years worth of inflation.

    But it's not AMD's pricing that makes people think the world has gone mad.  It's Nvidia's.  So let's do a similar comparison with Nvidia.  Let's ignore Titan cards across the board, as prices on those are more than a little crazy.

    Let's look at their GeForce 600 series cards, interpreted loosely as their lineup from 2012.  They effectively had four GPUs:
    GK110:  561 mm^2, $700
    GK104:  294 mm^2, $500
    GK106:  221 mm^2, $230
    GK107:  118 mm^2, $110


    Now let's look at their latest lineup with their Turing cards.  This time, they have five GPU chips:

    TU102:  754 mm^2, $1000
    TU104:  545 mm^2, $700
    TU106:  445 mm^2, $500
    TU116:  284 mm^2, $280
    TU117:  200 mm^2, $150

    If you look only at the list of prices, it looks like prices have gone way up.  But let's again remove the names and sort by die size:

    754 mm^2, $1000
    561 mm^2, $700
    545 mm^2, $700
    445 mm^2, $500
    294 mm^2, $500
    284 mm^2, $280
    221 mm^2, $230
    200 mm^2, $150
    118 mm^2, $110

    Again, there aren't really that severe of outliers.  From that list, perhaps the 294 mm^2 GPU for $500 looks pretty steep.  And the 200 mm^2 GPU for $150 looks like the best deal from either list.  Surely that's some evidence of movement, right?

    Well, that $500 card where Nvidia is gouging you is a GeForce GTX 680, and that best deal is a GeForce GTX 1650.  If you look only at prices and die sizes, Turing tends to be cheaper than Kepler.  And we're completely ignoring the inflation that happened over the course of several years, too.

    I often claim that price tags at retail are inextricably linked to the cost of producing the parts.  Sometimes people scoff at that, wanting instead to compare various series based on model number or whatever.  But cost of production is a big deal, and it has a huge impact on prices.

    If you don't want to pay a fortune, they still produce the 200 mm^2 GPU and the 300 mm^2 GPU or whatever.  And they're still faster than the comparably sized GPUs from previous generations.  They might even be cheaper.  Just because they also make some huge dies doesn't mean that the cheaper ones are gone.

    The exception is the low end, which really is gone.  We'll never again see another 59 mm^2 discrete GPU die like Cedar.  Then again, the integrated GPU in AMD's Raven Ridge APU probably takes more die space than that.  That's why there's no point in building such a low end discrete GPU anymore.
    GdemamiSovrathTheDarkrayneKyleranMadFrenchieRidelynn
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    Meanwhile, the 1080 cards still range from $750 to $1300 on the same NewEgg site.....

    I guess there's little market pressure or tech improvement to reduce their mfg cost or selling prices.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,705
    Quizzical said:
    MMOman101 said:
    Unless I missed something, I don't see a ~$200 GPU on the market that was released in the last few months or is releasing in the next few.  This seems really bad for the midrange gaming market and for people who don't have a 1k to throw a just a PC, never mind the cost of or peripherals. 
    Yep, you missed something.  Here you go:

    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601330988
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601332298
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601323902


    I am pretty sure those are all the old architecture.  That was the point.  It does not seem like the new architecture Navi/RTX have a price point in the 200s.  I don't consider hard refresh of 3 year old cards long term solutions for new builds now.  Others may, and that is fine. 
    Gdemami

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,407
    edited June 2019
    lahnmir said:
    MMOman101 said:
    a 1060 is a ~3 year old card.  This does not impact me much, but I know it will impact friends of mine.  Going to Best Buy to get a $700 PC with a dedicated GPU seems to be gone.  The GPU market seems to have inflated about ~1.7% over the last few years.

    a 1060 came out at $250 and now a 2060 is $370.  A 1080Ti was $700 now a 2080TI is $1200. 

    I see this as a terrible thing for PC gaming.  It will only make consoles and streaming more appealing options and that is really bad for PC gamers long term. 

    I really hope we see a current gen GPU come out in the $200 range. 
    You're talking like the 10 series GTX is already old and obsolete.. it isn't.
    According to Kano it is...

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    The minority who pays for all the most expensive and latest stuff is often the loudest. What he considers obsolete (because he doesn't use it anymore) is still pretty standard IMO because it's what the vast majority of the market can afford.

    I personally don't consider anything below $800 a gaming PC because a console does a better job than any $500-600 dollar PC. You want a better experience than a console, be ready to shell out $800+
    Mikeha




  • bentrimbentrim Member UncommonPosts: 299
    edited June 2019
    Realistically you cannot build a (decent) pc for under 1000, that is going to be functional for the next few years. Most VCs are $300-500. So really not a possibility. Either increase your budget, or wait until you have the funds. And yes I have built quite a few systems myself.
    rojoArcueidMikeha
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,099
    Kyleran said:
    Meanwhile, the 1080 cards still range from $750 to $1300 on the same NewEgg site.....

    I guess there's little market pressure or tech improvement to reduce their mfg cost or selling prices.
    The GTX 1080 is discontinued and gone.  A lot of discontinued cards have a few stragglers that stay in stock at stupid prices for a long time.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,099
    MMOman101 said:
    Quizzical said:
    MMOman101 said:
    Unless I missed something, I don't see a ~$200 GPU on the market that was released in the last few months or is releasing in the next few.  This seems really bad for the midrange gaming market and for people who don't have a 1k to throw a just a PC, never mind the cost of or peripherals. 
    Yep, you missed something.  Here you go:

    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601330988
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601332298
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601323902


    I am pretty sure those are all the old architecture.  That was the point.  It does not seem like the new architecture Navi/RTX have a price point in the 200s.  I don't consider hard refresh of 3 year old cards long term solutions for new builds now.  Others may, and that is fine. 
    The GTX 1660 is a Turing card and just launched in March of this year.  The GTX 1650 launched in April.  Those are both very recent cards and of Nvidia's latest architecture.

    The Radeon RX 590 is a little older, as it dates to last November.  That is just a refresh of the RX 580, which was itself a refresh of the RX 480.  And the Polaris architecture is heavily derivative of GCN cards going all the way back to 2012.

    But just because AMD hasn't released a full lineup of Navi cards yet doesn't mean that it isn't coming.  Well, Navi and its successors may or may not ever reach into the sub-$100 range, but it will have something around $200 eventually.
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,227
    edited June 2019
    Quizzical said:
    Kyleran said:
    Meanwhile, the 1080 cards still range from $750 to $1300 on the same NewEgg site.....

    I guess there's little market pressure or tech improvement to reduce their mfg cost or selling prices.
    The GTX 1080 is discontinued and gone.  A lot of discontinued cards have a few stragglers that stay in stock at stupid prices for a long time.
    Not only that some people try to sell these card used at stupid prices too expecting to get nearly full original purchase price due to the inflated pricing on newegg and amazon etc.

    I have seen people try and sell the gtx 1080ti for more than a brand new rtx 2080 when it's on a half decent sale which frankly is ridonculuos...lol
    Post edited by Asm0deus on
    Kyleran

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,133
    If you building a 1080P / 60 computer you dont have to spend much but if you trying to go 2K / 4K get ready to spend some money. 


    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    edited June 2019
    Quizzical said:
    Kyleran said:
    Meanwhile, the 1080 cards still range from $750 to $1300 on the same NewEgg site.....

    I guess there's little market pressure or tech improvement to reduce their mfg cost or selling prices.
    The GTX 1080 is discontinued and gone.  A lot of discontinued cards have a few stragglers that stay in stock at stupid prices for a long time.
    All GTX 1080 cards are discontinued,  including the GTX1080 TI, 1080 FE and the 1080 FE TI?

    If so New Egg sure seems to have a lot of stock in all four cards, at again, prices up into the $1350 range for many.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 1,907
    I don't remember there ever being $550-700 gaming PC's. 
    KyleranGdemami
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,705

    960 $200 at luanch.

    1060 75% faster $250 at launch.

    2060 52% faster and $350 at launch.

     

    970 $329

    1070 54% faster $379.

    2070 34% faster $600

     

    980 $550 at launch

    1080 64% faster and $500 launch price. 

    2080 22% faster $800 higher launch price.

     

    980ti $650

    1080ti 57% faster $700.

    2080ti  26% faster $1200.

    I went back to 2014, not sure if makes much sense to go back any further.  I also only have nvidia data here.  It looks to me like nvidia set an inflated price and AMD decided to go with it.  Between the 9xx and 10xx there were very large improvements for very close to the same cost (within $50).  For the next launch we got smaller improvements for a much larger price jump. 

     

    I see it is unpopular to say here, but I really wanted a Navi 6GB video card to drop for ~$250.  Something to provide really good price to performance gains that we are missing in this generation.  It would help the midrange market a lot. 





    Asm0deusGdemami

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,227
    MMOman101 said:

    960 $200 at luanch.

    1060 75% faster $250 at launch.

    2060 52% faster and $350 at launch.

     

    970 $329

    1070 54% faster $379.

    2070 34% faster $600

     

    980 $550 at launch

    1080 64% faster and $500 launch price. 

    2080 22% faster $800 higher launch price.

     

    980ti $650

    1080ti 57% faster $700.

    2080ti  26% faster $1200.

    I went back to 2014, not sure if makes much sense to go back any further.  I also only have nvidia data here.  It looks to me like nvidia set an inflated price and AMD decided to go with it.  Between the 9xx and 10xx there were very large improvements for very close to the same cost (within $50).  For the next launch we got smaller improvements for a much larger price jump. 

     

    I see it is unpopular to say here, but I really wanted a Navi 6GB video card to drop for ~$250.  Something to provide really good price to performance gains that we are missing in this generation.  It would help the midrange market a lot. 





    Aye nvidia has been inflating prices these last few years..its quite annoying and making me think of buying used (gpu's) which is something I would never have done a few years ago.
    Gdemami

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,705
    Utinni said:
    I don't remember there ever being $550-700 gaming PC's. 
    You never bought a midrange PCs or build them for others.  I have built them on more than one occasion.  I have seen suggestion on this forum for them. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 1,907
    MMOman101 said:
    Utinni said:
    I don't remember there ever being $550-700 gaming PC's. 
    You never bought a midrange PCs or build them for others.  I have built them on more than one occasion.  I have seen suggestion on this forum for them. 
    Correct. I've never bought a pre-build or built one for someone else. I've never spent less than $300 on a gpu either though.
    KyleranGdemami
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,705
    Quizzical said:
    MMOman101 said:
    Quizzical said:
    MMOman101 said:
    Unless I missed something, I don't see a ~$200 GPU on the market that was released in the last few months or is releasing in the next few.  This seems really bad for the midrange gaming market and for people who don't have a 1k to throw a just a PC, never mind the cost of or peripherals. 
    Yep, you missed something.  Here you go:

    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601330988
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601332298
    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709 601323902


    I am pretty sure those are all the old architecture.  That was the point.  It does not seem like the new architecture Navi/RTX have a price point in the 200s.  I don't consider hard refresh of 3 year old cards long term solutions for new builds now.  Others may, and that is fine. 
    The GTX 1660 is a Turing card and just launched in March of this year.  The GTX 1650 launched in April.  Those are both very recent cards and of Nvidia's latest architecture.

    The Radeon RX 590 is a little older, as it dates to last November.  That is just a refresh of the RX 580, which was itself a refresh of the RX 480.  And the Polaris architecture is heavily derivative of GCN cards going all the way back to 2012.

    But just because AMD hasn't released a full lineup of Navi cards yet doesn't mean that it isn't coming.  Well, Navi and its successors may or may not ever reach into the sub-$100 range, but it will have something around $200 eventually.
    I was wrong, I thought the 16xx were still pascal.  So nvidia did offer a $200 option.  AMD has not.  Hopefully they do. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • pratt12200pratt12200 Member UncommonPosts: 30
    The saddest part of this whole thread is people believe they have to buy the latest and greatest of everything to run curret games.  The cards that came out last year and are discounted this year do just fine lol.

    GorweGdemamiOG_Zorvan
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    edited June 2019
    Kyleran said:
    Quizzical said:
    Kyleran said:
    Meanwhile, the 1080 cards still range from $750 to $1300 on the same NewEgg site.....

    I guess there's little market pressure or tech improvement to reduce their mfg cost or selling prices.
    The GTX 1080 is discontinued and gone.  A lot of discontinued cards have a few stragglers that stay in stock at stupid prices for a long time.
    All GTX 1080 cards are discontinued,  including the GTX1080 TI, 1080 FE and the 1080 FE TI?

    If so New Egg sure seems to have a lot of stock in all four cards, at again, prices up into the $1350 range for many.
    OK, disregard my question,  I see the 2080 cards are all much cheaper than any of the 1080s, can't fathom why the older stock isn't marked down nor why anyone would want the older cards.

    Weird.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,526
    Operating Systems, Graphics and Software will always become more needy, at least in proportion to the availability of faster hardware, if not faster.




  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,676
    MMOman101 said:
    Not that long ago a midrange gaming PC build would pretty much always come in under $700 and and often be around the $600 range.  It looks like the new pricing that we see from Intel, AMD, and Nvidia have all but killed that market.  It is looking like the very low end gaming PC will be $700+ and the top end will be around 2k. 

    I don't see this is a good thing at all with especially when you consider the amount of money that is being thrown into streaming gaming. 

    For people who have knowledge of fabrication costs, is this price gouging or has cost to produce these products moved up rapidly.  I know RAM was really pricey, but that has normalized recently and I would assume a move to a smaller die would reduce some cost too (AMD). 

    Unless I missed something, I don't see a ~$200 GPU on the market that was released in the last few months or is releasing in the next few.  This seems really bad for the midrange gaming market and for people who don't have a 1k to throw a just a PC, never mind the cost of or peripherals. 

    What is gonna be crazy is next gen the price of a PC that is more powerful then one of the new consoles is likely going to be at least double the price of said consoles. I still would rather have a PC, but yeah. That is kinda crazy. The tech going into the new consoles is pretty wild for a generational leap, much closer to high end PCs then before.
    Gdemami
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,099
    Kyleran said:
    Quizzical said:
    Kyleran said:
    Meanwhile, the 1080 cards still range from $750 to $1300 on the same NewEgg site.....

    I guess there's little market pressure or tech improvement to reduce their mfg cost or selling prices.
    The GTX 1080 is discontinued and gone.  A lot of discontinued cards have a few stragglers that stay in stock at stupid prices for a long time.
    All GTX 1080 cards are discontinued,  including the GTX1080 TI, 1080 FE and the 1080 FE TI?

    If so New Egg sure seems to have a lot of stock in all four cards, at again, prices up into the $1350 range for many.
    Yes, the GTX 1080 is very discontinued.  Nvidia probably hasn't manufactured any more of the GPU chips in a year or so.  The GDDR5X memory that they use was discontinued by Micron around then, too, so even if Nvidia built more of the GPU chips, they couldn't assemble completed cards without paying Micron a fortune to do a special production run.

    Most of the GTX 1080 and GTX 1080 Ti cards on New Egg's web site aren't sold by New Egg, but by other vendors that list them on the site.  Some inflated prices for the mining bubble, didn't drop prices after the bubble ended, and so they still have some stock at crazy prices.  All of the GTX 1080 or 1080 Ti cards sold by New Egg directly are open box or refurbished.  They also have only one each of a GTX 1070 and GTX 1070 Ti that isn't open box or refurbished.

    It's common for old cards to hang around for a long time at stupid prices, and then not sell because they're at stupid prices.  For example, here's some GeForce GTX 285 cards:

    https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709 600007590

    Those were discontinued about a decade ago, but that doesn't mean that you can't still buy them brand new.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,099
    edited June 2019
    MMOman101 said:

    960 $200 at luanch.

    1060 75% faster $250 at launch.

    2060 52% faster and $350 at launch.

     

    970 $329

    1070 54% faster $379.

    2070 34% faster $600

     

    980 $550 at launch

    1080 64% faster and $500 launch price. 

    2080 22% faster $800 higher launch price.

     

    980ti $650

    1080ti 57% faster $700.

    2080ti  26% faster $1200.

    I went back to 2014, not sure if makes much sense to go back any further.  I also only have nvidia data here.  It looks to me like nvidia set an inflated price and AMD decided to go with it.  Between the 9xx and 10xx there were very large improvements for very close to the same cost (within $50).  For the next launch we got smaller improvements for a much larger price jump. 

     

    I see it is unpopular to say here, but I really wanted a Navi 6GB video card to drop for ~$250.  Something to provide really good price to performance gains that we are missing in this generation.  It would help the midrange market a lot. 

    One problem is that some of your numbers are wrong.  The launch MSRP was $600 for a GTX 1080 and $700 for a GTX 2080, for example.

    But the bigger problem is that you're comparing based on model numbers, not die size.  Model numbers are a marketing thing, not an engineering thing.  Their only real meaning is that it's what marketing people thought would sell the most cards at the highest prices.

    Very early GPUs on very new process nodes often command a price premium to compensate for poor early yields.  That certainly skewed the MSRP of the Radeon HD 7970, GeForce GTX 1080, Radeon VII, and some others that I avoided in my analysis above.  But such cards tend to see considerable price drops as the process node matures.  I'll bet that the Radeon RX 5700 XT doesn't still cost $450 when Nvidia launches their first 7 nm GPU.

    One other point is that I wouldn't count on getting a 6 GB Navi card at all, ever.  AMD hasn't had discrete GPUs with a memory size that wasn't a power of 2 since the Radeon HD 7970 and 7950 in 2012, which was later rebranded as the R9 280 and 280X.  Apart from that, you'd have to go all the way back to before they bought ATI in 2006.
    Gdemami
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    DMKano said:
    Quite the opposite as far as video card prices go

    WIth Nvidia 2060/2070 cards being in the $350-500 

    and 

    AMD RX5700/5700XT being in the $380-450 range 


    The days of  $200-300 good graphics cards is gone most likely forever.

    Expect to shell out at least $450-500+ for a good 2K card now (yes I am considering 2K gaming average now, I consider 1080p low end)

    So a 2k game PC for $500-700 - not gonna happen when the video card is almost $500
    I have to disagree, when you sit close to a monitor 4k is just overkill, differences are minor compared to 1080p.  You can get a nice RX-480/490 in the $200 price range which is great for 1080p.  I should know, I have a 32" 1080p next to a 27" 4k and the 32" is my main monitor.  The 32" monitor gets most of my gaming, I end up using the 4k monitor for a 2nd client or other programs.  Good 4k monitors will cost as much as  PC still.

    Nvidia'a ray tracing is merely a gimmick at this stage and it seems that AMD's Navi is not much better.

    So stick one of these RX-480/490s in a budget build and you have a great gaming PC.  So you can still build a decent gaming computer for $700.  Of course, the elitists need all the new bells and whistles and would never accept such a common build.  The low-end Nvidia cards are just junk. 
    Gdemami
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