Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

AMD announces Radeon RX 5700 XT ($450) and RX 5700 ($380), launching 7/7

QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,099
AMD is positioning them as rivals to the GeForce RTX 2070 and RTX 2060, respectively.  So is Navi going to crater prices?  Nope--or at least not initially.  I suspect that AMD is afraid of a fab capacity shortage from producing a ton of CPUs and doesn't want to burn their allocation at TSMC by producing lower margin GPUs instead, nor do they want to offer GPUs at compelling prices and then have them mostly unavailable for months.

AMD did have some new GPU features to talk about.  They have CAS, or Contrast Adaptive Shading, basically as their answer to Nvidia's DLSS.  It looks fine in their sample pictures, but I expect that in more general gameplay, it will work about as well as DLSS.  Which is to say, badly.

They also announced FidelityFX, which is a post-processing operation to increase contrast.  It does avoid (or perhaps even fix) the DLSS problem of upscaling looking blurry.  But I suspect that instead of restoring details, it will tend to fill in the wrong details, and then you get static or flicker as the image moves.

More interesting is Radeon Anti-Lag.  AMD is claiming that in their examples, it can reduce the latency from input to images on screen by 15 ms.  If it can do that across the board, then that absolutely is a killer feature that is worth paying extra for.  Once you get frame rates high enough to look like smooth motion, reduced latency is the real benefit of going higher yet.

Color me skeptical that it will just flawlessly work with everything, though.  My best guess is that it's a matter of game-specific driver optimizations, much like CrossFire/SLI.  They didn't really have a lot of details of what it did.

In all, I came away thinking that the Radeon RX 5700 XT looks like an overclocked GeForce GTX 1080 in a lot of ways.  And that's not entirely a bad thing if it means that AMD's schedulers have finally caught up to Nvidia's.  But it sure doesn't look like a world-beater card that will tip the GPU market decisively in AMD's favor.  If that's all that AMD got out of a move to 7 nm, then it makes me wonder if TSMC 7 nm is simply a mediocre process node for GPUs (which would explain why Nvidia seems to be ignoring it), if RDNA is a mediocre architecture that AMD is going to be stuck with for years (akin to Bulldozer), or if there's something simply broken about the early Navi parts that AMD can fix later.

I expect AMD to make a ton of money in the next few years, but it's going to be the CPU division carrying the company, with the GPU division just along for the ride.  Intel absolutely should be shaking in their boots at the thread that AMD poses.  Nvidia, not so much.

Comments

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,060
    I think “world-beater card” is a matter of context.

    At $450 - compared to a $500 2070 yeah its... nice, but not earth shattering.

    And nVidia still has “Super” in the wings, whatever that amounts to.

    I think AMD priced it right to begin with. You want as high a margin as you can get early on, when most of the early adopters hit.

    But you price that same hardware at <$400, and you do start to point to something world-beating. You don’t do that out the gate but if they have room to react to nVidia, they could have something on their hands.

    ——

    also, I can’t believe I’m talking about a mid-range card at a $400 price point being a great deal. 
  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,250
    To me these looked like $200~$300 cards. Not $400 cards. This will be their mid-range.
    AmazingAveryGdemami
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    Random question that probably doesn't belong here but does anyone else feel like the quality of Nvidia's monthly drivers have gone wayyyy down the past couple years ? To me the biggest selling point for Nvidia was always their driver support vs AMD but now it seems they are so hit or miss month to month when it comes to stability of what they put out.
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,569
    DMKano said:
    Random question that probably doesn't belong here but does anyone else feel like the quality of Nvidia's monthly drivers have gone wayyyy down the past couple years ? To me the biggest selling point for Nvidia was always their driver support vs AMD but now it seems they are so hit or miss month to month when it comes to stability of what they put out.

    I have 2 game PCs  - one AMD, one nvidia. 

    I haven't had driver nor stability issues on either one on years.


    I'm in this boat as well, I have an AMD PC and my SO has an Nvidia PC. Neither of us really have any issues with drivers ever, even the beta drivers. They both seem to put out drivers just as frequently as the other. 
    MadFrenchie
  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,250
    edited June 2019
    The last major driver issue was back in 2008 when nVidia laptop gpus would burn. But that was more than a decade ago. In general AMD is better with drivers than nVidia. They support hardware longer and more frequently update drivers. But it's not something you will notice if you buy a new gpu every five years.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,060
    DMKano said:
    Super disappointed by Navi cards so far.

    Way too expensive for the performance. 

    Even the hardcore AMD reddit sub is full of disappointment over these 2 cards.

    So far AMD crushed it with their upcoming CPUs, - but 8nm Navi not being able to crush 12nm Nvidia in terms of watt/performance is not good at all.

    Like wtf happened AMD?

    Was really hoping for $350 navi to outperform nvidia 2070... 

    Not even close as its $450 and it barely edges out a 2070... :(

    Depressing

    I guess the nvidia super lineup is going to drop the non-super pricing to where it will be a better bang for the buck than navi ... ugh

    So i guess as far as consumer PC GPU - nvidia is here to stay for the time being.


    So I don’t get it. AMD is offering similar performance for less money, but your sticking with nVidia because AMD isn’t cheap enough?
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,381
    We fast approach a day when video cards will cost more than the computers into which they are installed.
    mmolou

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • ConnmacartConnmacart Member UncommonPosts: 720
    DMKano said:
    Ridelynn said:
    DMKano said:
    Super disappointed by Navi cards so far.

    Way too expensive for the performance. 

    Even the hardcore AMD reddit sub is full of disappointment over these 2 cards.

    So far AMD crushed it with their upcoming CPUs, - but 8nm Navi not being able to crush 12nm Nvidia in terms of watt/performance is not good at all.

    Like wtf happened AMD?

    Was really hoping for $350 navi to outperform nvidia 2070... 

    Not even close as its $450 and it barely edges out a 2070... :(

    Depressing

    I guess the nvidia super lineup is going to drop the non-super pricing to where it will be a better bang for the buck than navi ... ugh

    So i guess as far as consumer PC GPU - nvidia is here to stay for the time being.


    So I don’t get it. AMD is offering similar performance for less money, but your sticking with nVidia because AMD isn’t cheap enough?

    I don't want similar performance - I want superior performance from 8nm process that would blow nvidia away.

    That is what was rumored, that was the hype... it didn't happen.


    Look what AMD cpus did - totally smashed Intel.

    I expected the same from Navi... something clearly superior to current Nvidia.

    So yeah huge disappointment from Navi

    Nobody is going to run and sell their 2070 to get a 5700XT for some tiny performance boost, its just not worth it.

    Especially considering that the super line will most likely drop 2070 prices below 5700XT... so yeah, it's not good

    Those rumors and hype weren't from AMD and on the same level as the pre CES ryzen 3000 "leaks". It was never going to happen.

    AMD didn't smash Intel with first gen Ryzen. Intel was still better across the board when it came to performance. AMD just had very good pricing for the performance they were delivering. Only now does it look like AMD has truly surpassed Intel, but that's also because Intel is still struggling with their 10nm. So why did you think AMD was going to be able to beat Nvidia with the new Navi architecture?

    Also any 2000 or 1600 Nvidia series owners aren't going to upgrade just because there is something faster less than a year later from when they got their current card. A very small portion might, but the vast majority really isn't considering upgrading until at least 2020/2021. 
    Navi is for those on older cards still and for those Navi is a good option compared to the RTX 2060 and 2070. 

    As for pricing why would AMD not price accordingly? I certainly wasn't expecting RTX 2080 performance for RX 580 pricing that is just being stupid.
    gervaise1
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    DMKano said:
    Ridelynn said:
    DMKano said:
    Super disappointed by Navi cards so far.

    Way too expensive for the performance. 

    Even the hardcore AMD reddit sub is full of disappointment over these 2 cards.

    So far AMD crushed it with their upcoming CPUs, - but 8nm Navi not being able to crush 12nm Nvidia in terms of watt/performance is not good at all.

    Like wtf happened AMD?

    Was really hoping for $350 navi to outperform nvidia 2070... 

    Not even close as its $450 and it barely edges out a 2070... :(

    Depressing

    I guess the nvidia super lineup is going to drop the non-super pricing to where it will be a better bang for the buck than navi ... ugh

    So i guess as far as consumer PC GPU - nvidia is here to stay for the time being.


    So I don’t get it. AMD is offering similar performance for less money, but your sticking with nVidia because AMD isn’t cheap enough?

    I don't want similar performance - I want superior performance from 8nm process that would blow nvidia away.

    That is what was rumored, that was the hype... it didn't happen.


    Look what AMD cpus did - totally smashed Intel.

    I expected the same from Navi... something clearly superior to current Nvidia.

    So yeah huge disappointment from Navi

    Nobody is going to run and sell their 2070 to get a 5700XT for some tiny performance boost, its just not worth it.

    Especially considering that the super line will most likely drop 2070 prices below 5700XT... so yeah, it's not good

    Agree. Starting from scratch with a new build then AMD (as reported) should have an edge. If you already have e.g. a 2070 then this will do nothing.
    [Deleted User]
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    I don't think they will lose any sleep about not dominating NVidia. I would go further and suggest they are feeling pretty good at the moment. 

    - supplying gpus and cpus for PS5 and next-gen XBox (and whatever Stadia ends up being); 
    - in a very strong position when it comes to cpus for both desktops and servers - servers being a big market. 
    Ridelynn
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,060
    edited June 2019
    DMKano said:
    Ridelynn said:
    DMKano said:
    Super disappointed by Navi cards so far.

    Way too expensive for the performance. 

    Even the hardcore AMD reddit sub is full of disappointment over these 2 cards.

    So far AMD crushed it with their upcoming CPUs, - but 8nm Navi not being able to crush 12nm Nvidia in terms of watt/performance is not good at all.

    Like wtf happened AMD?

    Was really hoping for $350 navi to outperform nvidia 2070... 

    Not even close as its $450 and it barely edges out a 2070... :(

    Depressing

    I guess the nvidia super lineup is going to drop the non-super pricing to where it will be a better bang for the buck than navi ... ugh

    So i guess as far as consumer PC GPU - nvidia is here to stay for the time being.


    So I don’t get it. AMD is offering similar performance for less money, but your sticking with nVidia because AMD isn’t cheap enough?

    I don't want similar performance - I want superior performance from 8nm process that would blow nvidia away.

    That is what was rumored, that was the hype... it didn't happen.


    Look what AMD cpus did - totally smashed Intel.

    It's verified they have high core counts, but there's absolutely nothing on actual performance as of yet.... Unless you want to base everything of an AMD-released Cinebench score, I don't know of any official released benchmarks on Zen2 as of today.

    Also, you should never, ever buy into AMD hype. They always get totally overhyped, and when reality hits, your always in for a letdown. If you thought AMD was after people who already bought 2070's... yeah, no. The market for AMD are people still sitting on 970's, or running RX550s, or still sitting on R9 290's... who haven't upgraded to a current generation yet or are bumping up beyond 1080 and need more performance than what they have. Never get on the AMD hype train - it usually isn't directed by AMD and I have my tin-foil-hat suspicions that it's fueled by folks wearing green hats.

    If you think about it objectively... sure, everyone wants vastly superior performance for vastly less cost and lower power: who doesn't? But in this case, it doesn't make sense to go back to the default status quo (especially since they are the single point reason why prices have been hiked up so much recently), when AMD is doing everything you have said you wanted, they just haven't gone as far as you would have liked.

    I'm not saying you should go out and buy AMD, or that there are no good reasons to continue to look at nVidia... because that isn't true. Just saying AMD is definitely going in the direction it seems like your asking for. Maybe it isn't enough yet, but that doesn't mean they haven't made a lot of progress.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,060
    edited June 2019
    DMKano said:
    gervaise1 said:
    I don't think they will lose any sleep about not dominating NVidia. I would go further and suggest they are feeling pretty good at the moment. 

    - supplying gpus and cpus for PS5 and next-gen XBox (and whatever Stadia ends up being); 
    - in a very strong position when it comes to cpus for both desktops and servers - servers being a big market. 

    Yep but I am not talking about AMD losing sleep.

    I am talking about PC video card market and the fact that we are looking at $400-500 prices for decent video cards from both AMD and Nvidia.

    Yeah we got bent over, Navi was the only hope we had to bring prices down to $250-350 range but nope.

    That's what I am talking about - not how well AMD will do as a company. 
    Keep in mind your looking at release-day MSRP prices. Traditionally, before mining blew up the pricing structure and nVidia ran away without too much high end competition; video cards would drop significantly from MSRP as the competition started eating into sales. You still see a good bit of this with lower-end cards. For example, the GTX1060 6G had an MSRP of $249 on release, once it got some pressure from the RX480/580, it was common to see it closer to $200, and not unheard of to see sales <$200 on that card. 

    The question for AMD is... Sure, you price it right under the current performance level of your competition. Then they lower their price, then you lower yours. How far can either of them go before they just can't go any lower. 

    AMD has had great success with this, look at the RX570/580 - those have been phenomenal values, especially at some recent prices. Just because the 5700 has a high MSRP doesn't really concern me. What does is both camp's ability to lower the price later on to keep up with whatever the throws out: the lower they both can afford to go, the better off for all of us, no matter what color card you want to buy.

    The nVidia GTX1060 price drops I used in my first example were in direct response to AMD showing up with the RX580 at $229, and then going on sale (often) for <$200. Same exact strategy AMD is employing here with RDNA cards. If we can get lower prices later on on both 5700 and 2070 cards - we all win. 

    RDNA is far from DOA based on nVidia Super - nVIdia hasn't even disclosed Super officially (that I'm aware of). What would make RDNA DOA would be if AMD can't afford to pivot to react to whatever Super may bring. That can't be known until Super actually comes out to play, though. You can't be killed by something that isn't out and available.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,705
    Ridelynn said:
    DMKano said:
    gervaise1 said:
    I don't think they will lose any sleep about not dominating NVidia. I would go further and suggest they are feeling pretty good at the moment. 

    - supplying gpus and cpus for PS5 and next-gen XBox (and whatever Stadia ends up being); 
    - in a very strong position when it comes to cpus for both desktops and servers - servers being a big market. 

    Yep but I am not talking about AMD losing sleep.

    I am talking about PC video card market and the fact that we are looking at $400-500 prices for decent video cards from both AMD and Nvidia.

    Yeah we got bent over, Navi was the only hope we had to bring prices down to $250-350 range but nope.

    That's what I am talking about - not how well AMD will do as a company. 
    Keep in mind your looking at release-day MSRP prices. Traditionally, before mining blew up the pricing structure and nVidia ran away without too much high end competition; video cards would drop significantly from MSRP as the competition started eating into sales. You still see a good bit of this with lower-end cards. For example, the GTX1060 6G had an MSRP of $249 on release, once it got some pressure from the RX480/580, it was common to see it closer to $200, and not unheard of to see sales <$200 on that card. 

    The question for AMD is... Sure, you price it right under the current performance level of your competition. Then they lower their price, then you lower yours. How far can either of them go before they just can't go any lower. 

    AMD has had great success with this, look at the RX570/580 - those have been phenomenal values, especially at some recent prices. Just because the 5700 has a high MSRP doesn't really concern me. What does is both camp's ability to lower the price later on to keep up with whatever the throws out: the lower they both can afford to go, the better off for all of us, no matter what color card you want to buy.

    The nVidia GTX1060 price drops I used in my first example were in direct response to AMD showing up with the RX580 at $229, and then going on sale (often) for <$200. Same exact strategy AMD is employing here with RDNA cards. If we can get lower prices later on on both 5700 and 2070 cards - we all win. 

    RDNA is far from DOA based on nVidia Super - nVIdia hasn't even disclosed Super officially (that I'm aware of). What would make RDNA DOA would be if AMD can't afford to pivot to react to whatever Super may bring. That can't be known until Super actually comes out to play, though. You can't be killed by something that isn't out and available.
    You are talking about ~3 year old cards for $200. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,060
    edited June 2019
    MMOman101 said:
    Ridelynn said:
    DMKano said:
    gervaise1 said:
    I don't think they will lose any sleep about not dominating NVidia. I would go further and suggest they are feeling pretty good at the moment. 

    - supplying gpus and cpus for PS5 and next-gen XBox (and whatever Stadia ends up being); 
    - in a very strong position when it comes to cpus for both desktops and servers - servers being a big market. 

    Yep but I am not talking about AMD losing sleep.

    I am talking about PC video card market and the fact that we are looking at $400-500 prices for decent video cards from both AMD and Nvidia.

    Yeah we got bent over, Navi was the only hope we had to bring prices down to $250-350 range but nope.

    That's what I am talking about - not how well AMD will do as a company. 
    Keep in mind your looking at release-day MSRP prices. Traditionally, before mining blew up the pricing structure and nVidia ran away without too much high end competition; video cards would drop significantly from MSRP as the competition started eating into sales. You still see a good bit of this with lower-end cards. For example, the GTX1060 6G had an MSRP of $249 on release, once it got some pressure from the RX480/580, it was common to see it closer to $200, and not unheard of to see sales <$200 on that card. 

    The question for AMD is... Sure, you price it right under the current performance level of your competition. Then they lower their price, then you lower yours. How far can either of them go before they just can't go any lower. 

    AMD has had great success with this, look at the RX570/580 - those have been phenomenal values, especially at some recent prices. Just because the 5700 has a high MSRP doesn't really concern me. What does is both camp's ability to lower the price later on to keep up with whatever the throws out: the lower they both can afford to go, the better off for all of us, no matter what color card you want to buy.

    The nVidia GTX1060 price drops I used in my first example were in direct response to AMD showing up with the RX580 at $229, and then going on sale (often) for <$200. Same exact strategy AMD is employing here with RDNA cards. If we can get lower prices later on on both 5700 and 2070 cards - we all win. 

    RDNA is far from DOA based on nVidia Super - nVIdia hasn't even disclosed Super officially (that I'm aware of). What would make RDNA DOA would be if AMD can't afford to pivot to react to whatever Super may bring. That can't be known until Super actually comes out to play, though. You can't be killed by something that isn't out and available.
    You are talking about ~3 year old cards for $200. 
    I'm talking about a trend that played out over the past 3 years, and that has played out in nearly every generation of GPU release.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,060
    DMKano said:
    Ridelynn said:


    RDNA is far from DOA based on nVidia Super - nVIdia hasn't even disclosed Super officially (that I'm aware of). What would make RDNA DOA would be if AMD can't afford to pivot to react to whatever Super may bring. That can't be known until Super actually comes out to play, though. You can't be killed by something that isn't out and available.


    But they can only pivot down to a threshold where it's still profitable and not below manufacturing cost.

    I don't know what the low threshold is for AMD and Nvidia - but I doubt that it's in the low $300 range for 2070 and 5700XT
    I completely agree with the first sentence.

    i don’t disagree with the second: I honestly have no idea how far either company can or is willing to drop. That is the million dollar question.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,099
    DMKano said:

    Look what AMD cpus did - totally smashed Intel.

    I expected the same from Navi... something clearly superior to current Nvidia.

    The difference is that Intel tripped and fell on its face with their disaster of a 10 nm process node.  With no new process node to move to, Intel hasn't really been able to improve their products much since Sky Lake launched in mid-2015.

    If Nvidia was stuck using the same process nodes that they had available in 2015, AMD would be totally smashing them, too.  But that is unlikely to happen, as Nvidia and AMD have access to the same process nodes.
  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,182
    Unfortunately, it looks like the Nvidia "Super" Cards and forthcoming price drops on existing RTX line make these Navi cards irrelevant.... A pass and a wait till next year for Navi 20 with Ray Tracing OR 7nm Samsung EUV Nvidia cards. Either way these Navi and current RTX pricing is ludicrous.
    Asm0deus



  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,227
    DMKano said:
    gervaise1 said:
    I don't think they will lose any sleep about not dominating NVidia. I would go further and suggest they are feeling pretty good at the moment. 

    - supplying gpus and cpus for PS5 and next-gen XBox (and whatever Stadia ends up being); 
    - in a very strong position when it comes to cpus for both desktops and servers - servers being a big market. 

    Yep but I am not talking about AMD losing sleep.

    I am talking about PC video card market and the fact that we are looking at $400-500 prices for decent video cards from both AMD and Nvidia.

    Yeah we got bent over, Navi was the only hope we had to bring prices down to $250-350 range but nope.

    That's what I am talking about - not how well AMD will do as a company. 
    Agreed, the prices right now are just stupid retard prices...sadly  people keep paying so I am not going to hold my breath on prices going down much.

    I would say right now when you make a PC build, not counting peripherals, you need to budget in that your gpu will be be around 50% of your budget more or less for a decent mid tier card.




    Gdemami

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,250
    I don't think nVidia will reduce prices until they release 7nm EUV cards. They still hold the performance crown, and traditionally price themselves higher than similarly performing AMD cards. The past has shown use people will still buy more inferior nVidia cards for more money due to the brand name. It's also not like they can reduce prices. The AMD chips are cheaper to make, nVidia won't be able to undercut them without losing money.
    Gdemami
  • AmazingAveryAmazingAvery Age of Conan AdvocateMember UncommonPosts: 7,182
    Cleffy said:
    I don't think nVidia will reduce prices until they release 7nm EUV cards. They still hold the performance crown, and traditionally price themselves higher than similarly performing AMD cards. The past has shown use people will still buy more inferior nVidia cards for more money due to the brand name. It's also not like they can reduce prices. The AMD chips are cheaper to make, nVidia won't be able to undercut them without losing money.
    Not entirely true, Turing has been out a while now and yields would be better. 7nm is more expensive than 12nm too. This video has a good assessment of that, especially the last half - 



Sign In or Register to comment.