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2019...Why do static mobs just stand their

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  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,355
    Probably because it is one of the least things people complain about...  If you actually went to the game forum, there are much more things people complain about... so developer decide to spend resource on more important issue.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    AAAMEOW said:
    Probably because it is one of the least things people complain about...  If you actually went to the game forum, there are much more things people complain about... so developer decide to spend resource on more important issue.
    What your talking about is Taping out the fires later on after a game is released.  This is more of a base game decision of the original design, or worded differently the core feature.  Putting out the fires and bugs comes later on and has nothing to do with the core of the game. 
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 1,047
    Anyone remember that post that WoW made about AI?  And that mmorpg players don't really want it?  They said it would be extremely simple to script bosses to go after the healers, etc, but no one would like it.

    This is going a way back but my hands-down favorite boss fight was always in the last patch area of BC, kind of a blood elf area I think.  The 5-man had a boss fight which was a 5-man team that mimicked a party you fight.  I loved that fight.  I could be remembering wrong, but didn't that fight have decent scripting?  And didn't people complain about it?  I could be remembering wrong.
    bcbully
  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 2,661
    Companies delibrately take things out then slowly give it back to you over time and say they create new things when the end product is worse that what it was to start with.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,217
    blamo2000 said:
    Anyone remember that post that WoW made about AI?  And that mmorpg players don't really want it?  They said it would be extremely simple to script bosses to go after the healers, etc, but no one would like it.

    This is going a way back but my hands-down favorite boss fight was always in the last patch area of BC, kind of a blood elf area I think.  The 5-man had a boss fight which was a 5-man team that mimicked a party you fight.  I loved that fight.  I could be remembering wrong, but didn't that fight have decent scripting?  And didn't people complain about it?  I could be remembering wrong.
    There was a raid in WotLK like that, and yes there were plenty tears.

    in age of wushu bosses would spawn players as adds.
    you be picking some floors then get an alert asking if you wanted to join. First 5 or so who answer get ported in. Super awesome system imo. 

    Developing strats to be the boss and the players was next level.
    blamo2000KyleranJean-Luc_Picard
  • ProphecysProphecys Member UncommonPosts: 32
    Wasting time on AI that isn't important to the end game does not seem very valuable.
    Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,207
    Prophecys said:
    Wasting time on AI that isn't important to the end game does not seem very valuable.
    Why would it not be important to the end game?
    Gdemami

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  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,355
    AAAMEOW said:
    Probably because it is one of the least things people complain about...  If you actually went to the game forum, there are much more things people complain about... so developer decide to spend resource on more important issue.
    What your talking about is Taping out the fires later on after a game is released.  This is more of a base game decision of the original design, or worded differently the core feature.  Putting out the fires and bugs comes later on and has nothing to do with the core of the game. 
    I remember darkfall when it is released way back... I hate when mob chase after me lol...  The poster below you is probably right.  It is simply because many don't want it.

    They usually want the difficulty they can control.  For example twitch combat.  For example people soloing GW2 dungeon so they felt they are skillful.  It is difficult, but it is difficulty which can be conqueror.  

    I'm not saying you are wrong.  Since you want it, so obviously there are people who want it.  I'm just not sure that many people want it.  Because I actually hear people talk about the opposite.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    Prophecys said:
    Wasting time on AI that isn't important to the end game does not seem very valuable.
    This statement is somewhat powerful.  But if you look at it that way, why wast time on ANYTHING if end game is the only goal ?
    GdemamiVermillion_Raventhal
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    AAAMEOW said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Probably because it is one of the least things people complain about...  If you actually went to the game forum, there are much more things people complain about... so developer decide to spend resource on more important issue.
    What your talking about is Taping out the fires later on after a game is released.  This is more of a base game decision of the original design, or worded differently the core feature.  Putting out the fires and bugs comes later on and has nothing to do with the core of the game. 
    I remember darkfall when it is released way back... I hate when mob chase after me lol...  The poster below you is probably right.  It is simply because many don't want it.

    They usually want the difficulty they can control.  For example twitch combat.  For example people soloing GW2 dungeon so they felt they are skillful.  It is difficult, but it is difficulty which can be conqueror.  

    I'm not saying you are wrong.  Since you want it, so obviously there are people who want it.  I'm just not sure that many people want it.  Because I actually hear people talk about the opposite.
    What your talking about is a different topic all together.

    Your talking about "easy vs hard". 
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    Albatroes said:
    Unfortunately, to make things like this 'interesting' again, more class related roles would have to exist again which would lead to imbalance and the circle will begin again with forum QQs.

    Mobs having interesting mechanics, such as different types of ways of aggroing/varying aggro ranges, being able to call/summon help during fights, being able to run away/cc certain roles in parties/etc, were countered by giving certain classes certain abilities like sleep/polymorph/silence/root/etc and for the most part they do exist in a lot of games. However, if you look at wow, how often do you realistically use those abilities aside from just skipping something?

    In my mind, I would like to take things a bit further with mob AI, kind of like how Metal Gear games would work, like if a patrol saw a dead body/heard fighting/etc, it should put mobs in alert mode, maybe increasing how they run or causing a split if its a group to separately search the area when things were alerted. This would at least make players a bit more cautious on how they pull. WoW sort of tried to do this (again) with one of its mythic+ seasonal affixes (I've done forgot the name now), but honestly, it should be implemented at early levels of the game and then become baseline. It also ties into another problem that has been happening in most mmorpgs of the past decade of players only having to learn how to play their class once they hit cap.

    Another thing I feel is lacking in modern games is the need to prepare for stuff. The only time you'll really see people having a wide variety of stuff like potions/etc is in the highest tier content, which honestly affects the economy as well. If you needed a wide variety of stuff to engage leveling content with, it would increase economical health and actually make the in game's currency important again instead of just something to buy vanity with. You had to stuff like that alot in games like FFXI, like buying echo drops for silence if you were a magic user, buy reraise items/aggro prevention items/so-on.
    Good post,
    What it seems your saying is with diversity of mobs comes with more diversity of players tactics and abilities.

    I'm not sure if your taking this as a negative or positive... But i'm taking it as a good and interesting game.  A new feature !

    Each class will need a full tool box of fun abilities to counter mobs actions. If a game is made like that count me in :)


    Imballance ?..... Isn't that the developers job ?..... After all whats the alternative, make the game simple, release it and call it a day ?..... We already have a lot of that.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,379
    edited June 2019
    AAAMEOW said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Probably because it is one of the least things people complain about...  If you actually went to the game forum, there are much more things people complain about... so developer decide to spend resource on more important issue.
    What your talking about is Taping out the fires later on after a game is released.  This is more of a base game decision of the original design, or worded differently the core feature.  Putting out the fires and bugs comes later on and has nothing to do with the core of the game. 
    I remember darkfall when it is released way back... I hate when mob chase after me lol...  The poster below you is probably right.  It is simply because many don't want it.

    They usually want the difficulty they can control.  For example twitch combat.  For example people soloing GW2 dungeon so they felt they are skillful.  It is difficult, but it is difficulty which can be conqueror.  

    I'm not saying you are wrong.  Since you want it, so obviously there are people who want it.  I'm just not sure that many people want it.  Because I actually hear people talk about the opposite.
    What your talking about is a different topic all together.

    Your talking about "easy vs hard". 
    There is no difference.  Why would NPCs decide to flank a player group?  Not just to keep things interesting, but to make game play more challenging as well.

    Albatroes said:
    Unfortunately, to make things like this 'interesting' again, more class related roles would have to exist again which would lead to imbalance and the circle will begin again with forum QQs.

    Mobs having interesting mechanics, such as different types of ways of aggroing/varying aggro ranges, being able to call/summon help during fights, being able to run away/cc certain roles in parties/etc, were countered by giving certain classes certain abilities like sleep/polymorph/silence/root/etc and for the most part they do exist in a lot of games. However, if you look at wow, how often do you realistically use those abilities aside from just skipping something?

    In my mind, I would like to take things a bit further with mob AI, kind of like how Metal Gear games would work, like if a patrol saw a dead body/heard fighting/etc, it should put mobs in alert mode, maybe increasing how they run or causing a split if its a group to separately search the area when things were alerted. This would at least make players a bit more cautious on how they pull. WoW sort of tried to do this (again) with one of its mythic+ seasonal affixes (I've done forgot the name now), but honestly, it should be implemented at early levels of the game and then become baseline. It also ties into another problem that has been happening in most mmorpgs of the past decade of players only having to learn how to play their class once they hit cap.

    Another thing I feel is lacking in modern games is the need to prepare for stuff. The only time you'll really see people having a wide variety of stuff like potions/etc is in the highest tier content, which honestly affects the economy as well. If you needed a wide variety of stuff to engage leveling content with, it would increase economical health and actually make the in game's currency important again instead of just something to buy vanity with. You had to stuff like that alot in games like FFXI, like buying echo drops for silence if you were a magic user, buy reraise items/aggro prevention items/so-on.
    Good post,
    What it seems your saying is with diversity of mobs comes with more diversity of players tactics and abilities.

    I'm not sure if your taking this as a negative or positive... But i'm taking it as a good and interesting game.  A new feature !

    Each class will need a full tool box of fun abilities to counter mobs actions. If a game is made like that count me in :)


    Imballance ?..... Isn't that the developers job ?..... After all whats the alternative, make the game simple, release it and call it a day ?..... We already have a lot of that.

    What he and others have been saying is player class diversity and situational npc responses (AI) were prevalent in many early MMORPGS.

    What also is true is game designs changed in several ways such that both were simplified or streamlined as a result. 

    Class diversity and specialization leads to challenges of creating designs which will interest enough players to fill each role.

    Interdependent designs also tend to limit the soloing ability of a class, so devs had to design ones which could do it more effectively at the cost of often making them less desirable in a group situation. 




    Post edited by Kyleran on
    delete5230AlBQuirkyVermillion_Raventhal

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  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,262
    edited June 2019
    You guys haven't played TD2.  Their AIs give you a good run for your money.  They're scripted to play just like regular players.  
    What is TD2? It might help if you gave the full name so I can check the game out.
    AlBQuirky
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  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,066
    Ryzom comes to mind. It was innovative when it came to mob AI (and some other things). It had roaming herds of animals and predator packs following at a distance. Who then at intervals would attack a lonely animal (or a player). Individual animals would notice the players (game showed that the animal was seeing you) and shy animals would try to stay at a distance.

    But it was a sandbox MMO, so most players didn't give a shit about this game. I mean, everyone and their aunt plays them now, but back when there were actual good innovative MMORPG's (SWG, Vanguard, Saga of Ryzom, CoH), everyone wanted WoW.

    delete5230
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    edited June 2019
    Ryzom comes to mind. It was innovative when it came to mob AI (and some other things). It had roaming herds of animals and predator packs following at a distance. Who then at intervals would attack a lonely animal (or a player). Individual animals would notice the players (game showed that the animal was seeing you) and shy animals would try to stay at a distance.

    But it was a sandbox MMO, so most players didn't give a shit about this game. I mean, everyone and their aunt plays them now, but back when there were actual good innovative MMORPG's (SWG, Vanguard, Saga of Ryzom, CoH), everyone wanted WoW.

    What an extremely good example :)
    I completely forgot about Ryzom !!...... I now remember within my first hour from walking away from the safe area of the starting town, I was faced with unpredictability of monsters. 

    I soon realized, I wasn't sure what the monsters would do, it was very noticeable quickly !
    It was truly a great feeling.


    Unfortunately it was the first sandbox game I ever stepped into and didn't like the tedious nature of harvesting and collecting of the game... but thats a different subject. 
    someforumguy
  • DwaaawffulDwaaawfful Member UncommonPosts: 63
    The problem with complaining about static mobs is that you have to be careful what you wish for.

    I've just spent the past 20 minutes writing out a cogent response to this post based on the link between smart algorithms and the mechanics of storytelling — in essence, a mini-thesis on the possibilities for truly organic encounters — and I was on the verge of posting when I felt a tap on my shoulder.

    Seems a mob of game devs had teleported into my room, every last one of them armed with baseball bats.

    "If you post that, you're effectively dissing our collective ass," said one.

    "And by dissing our collective ass, you reveal yourself to be a Gamer In Need Of Serious Correction," said another.

    The most nerdily unhinged one spoke last.  "Don't you know static mobs make our lives easier?" he said. "We've got more serious issues to deal with, like lag."

    That's when they pinned me to the floor and forced me to sign a zillion legal documents confirming me as what they termed a "static mobs advocate" — then they teleported away.

    Seconds later, they returned.

    "We've teleported back to the same guy," said one.

    "Must be a glitch, said another. "We're supposed to manifest in the vicinity of a different rogue gamer every time."

    "How embarrassing," added the nerdy one.

    My conclusion?

    Whatever you think about static mobs, they're probably here for a while longer.

    In my case, I may have to order pizza so these guys don't DIE while they're blinking in and out on a loop ...


    AlBQuirky
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