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Pantheon is a wasted opportunity, it'll end up like Vanguard, VR would ave been the better way to go

tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
I've been playing Project 1999 a lot recently and I realised why it was so amazing for the time. You had a sense of wonder for the world, you feared it, and because there was no map you imagined what you could find. It didn't feel like a game, a lot of those early MMOs didn't, I remember SWG feeling more like a chat room with tasks. I just loved being in that world, and you cannot ever really recapture that experience today. We always see these budget MMOs come out that tout how they're going to deliver a hardcore experience.... but the problem is you never have that sense of wonder because they already look 15 years old, and they play old. The MMOs we all loved... they were cutting edge!

I've been playing a lot of Rec Room lately, it has given me that sense of wonder that MMOs used to. I could really imagine a new MMO in VR that tries to be super immersive, and lets you live an alternative lifestyle like how we felt with the first MMOs. The amazing thing with VR is you do not need amazing graphics, the presence you feel overtakes graphics, which you totally rely on in standard games. 

I really thing whoever can come along and make an amazing MMO in VR has latched onto the next big thing. Because today I bought an Oculus Quest (not my first headset) and I danced with a Robot in the tutorial, it felt AMAZING! I've played a lot of other games in VR since 2016, and stuff like that still amazes me. I felt like I was actually dancing with it, just such a funny experience. I've also had other crazy experiences where people touch me with their hands in game, and just some part of your brain freaks out. With the Rift controllers you just have this weird feeling of presence, and it's all done without canned animations, you feel and other people look so natural. You can see them dancing with just floating hands in Rec Room... but your brain fills out the details and it's the most immersive thing. 

I really think Pantheon is an MMO waiting to die already, it's from some people who really should have learnt from making the same mistake 10+ years ago. 
EmeraqArteriusTEKK3NmmolouSephrosjimmywolfGdemamiBaalzharonbcbullydelete5230and 6 others.
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Comments

  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 667
    edited May 23
    So, Pantheon doesn't offer Virtual Reality therefore it will bomb.
    Sounds reasonable.....

    Image result for facepalm gif

    SovrathMadFrenchieScotTokkenAmatheAlbatroesZalgotasRLWD
  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 1,606
    VR and MMO's are leagues away from each other. I know lots of people I can't even play VR because it gives them motion sickness. A MMO like Pantheon will be a sub based game. Making it VR would have killed it as the sub numbers wouldn't be there. Plus the computer needed to play a VR game is expensive, right?
  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,626
    Well, the mistake (as you label it) with Vanguard was not the game design or vision, it was almost entirely outside factors, business failures, company politics, economics. If Vanguard had been given the chance to evolve, ignoring whatever technical and business/economical problems, I am sure it would have been successful (in the context of its customer base, not compared to wow or pop mmo numbers).

    Tbh I think VR (virtual reality) will remain niche for many years to come, and not the savior of immersive mmorpg experiences. VR is still i gimmick, and though it may have immersive qualities, the player base for an immersive mmorpg type game is not ready or interested in VR yet.. It is just not quite suited for long term play/progression..yet, and on a longer run it works against immersion on a practical level.
    jimmywolfdelete5230
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,186
    edited May 23
    No VR so Pantheon will be buggy like Vanguard?  Not following you.
    Sovrath
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,040
    VR, really dude be serious.  VR is not a practical option and not because of cost, because of retina bleed, nausea, creepy isolation factor, I could go on.
    Sovrathkjempffdelete5230Agent_JosephAmathe
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,929
    tixylix said:
    I've been playing Project 1999 a lot recently and I realised why it was so amazing for the time. You had a sense of wonder for the world, you feared it, and because there was no map you imagined what you could find. It didn't feel like a game, a lot of those early MMOs didn't, I remember SWG feeling more like a chat room with tasks. I just loved being in that world, and you cannot ever really recapture that experience today. We always see these budget MMOs come out that tout how they're going to deliver a hardcore experience.... but the problem is you never have that sense of wonder because they already look 15 years old, and they play old. The MMOs we all loved... they were cutting edge!

    I've been playing a lot of Rec Room lately, it has given me that sense of wonder that MMOs used to. I could really imagine a new MMO in VR that tries to be super immersive, and lets you live an alternative lifestyle like how we felt with the first MMOs. The amazing thing with VR is you do not need amazing graphics, the presence you feel overtakes graphics, which you totally rely on in standard games. 

    I really thing whoever can come along and make an amazing MMO in VR has latched onto the next big thing. Because today I bought an Oculus Quest (not my first headset) and I danced with a Robot in the tutorial, it felt AMAZING! I've played a lot of other games in VR since 2016, and stuff like that still amazes me. I felt like I was actually dancing with it, just such a funny experience. I've also had other crazy experiences where people touch me with their hands in game, and just some part of your brain freaks out. With the Rift controllers you just have this weird feeling of presence, and it's all done without canned animations, you feel and other people look so natural. You can see them dancing with just floating hands in Rec Room... but your brain fills out the details and it's the most immersive thing. 

    I really think Pantheon is an MMO waiting to die already, it's from some people who really should have learnt from making the same mistake 10+ years ago. 
    I own an Oculis Rift. If I could I'd just play Skyrim and be as happy as can be. But guess what? It makes me Nauseuous after a while. Tried everything to get rid of it.

    So "no."
    DMKanodelete5230



  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,156
    I really want to like VR in applications other than training simulators, but i just don't.

    I suppose if you enjoy playing MMO's in first person, it could be good, but again i don't.
    svann
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,872
    Sovrath said:
    tixylix said:
    I've been playing Project 1999 a lot recently and I realised why it was so amazing for the time. You had a sense of wonder for the world, you feared it, and because there was no map you imagined what you could find. It didn't feel like a game, a lot of those early MMOs didn't, I remember SWG feeling more like a chat room with tasks. I just loved being in that world, and you cannot ever really recapture that experience today. We always see these budget MMOs come out that tout how they're going to deliver a hardcore experience.... but the problem is you never have that sense of wonder because they already look 15 years old, and they play old. The MMOs we all loved... they were cutting edge!

    I've been playing a lot of Rec Room lately, it has given me that sense of wonder that MMOs used to. I could really imagine a new MMO in VR that tries to be super immersive, and lets you live an alternative lifestyle like how we felt with the first MMOs. The amazing thing with VR is you do not need amazing graphics, the presence you feel overtakes graphics, which you totally rely on in standard games. 

    I really thing whoever can come along and make an amazing MMO in VR has latched onto the next big thing. Because today I bought an Oculus Quest (not my first headset) and I danced with a Robot in the tutorial, it felt AMAZING! I've played a lot of other games in VR since 2016, and stuff like that still amazes me. I felt like I was actually dancing with it, just such a funny experience. I've also had other crazy experiences where people touch me with their hands in game, and just some part of your brain freaks out. With the Rift controllers you just have this weird feeling of presence, and it's all done without canned animations, you feel and other people look so natural. You can see them dancing with just floating hands in Rec Room... but your brain fills out the details and it's the most immersive thing. 

    I really think Pantheon is an MMO waiting to die already, it's from some people who really should have learnt from making the same mistake 10+ years ago. 
    I own an Oculis Rift. If I could I'd just play Skyrim and be as happy as can be. But guess what? It makes me Nauseuous after a while. Tried everything to get rid of it.

    So "no."
    Nausea is my problem as well with VR titles.

    Also the way most VR games fail to handle your movement like walking or running is really bad.
    dragonlee66TokkenAmathe
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,186
    Alders said:
    I really want to like VR in applications other than training simulators, but i just don't.

    I suppose if you enjoy playing MMO's in first person, it could be good, but again i don't.
    Hadnt even thought of that.  Good point.  I need both 1st and 3rd person.  No 3rd person view is a dealbreaker.
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,800
    edited May 24
    Me reading the title



    Me getting to the part about VR


    bcbullyVerenath


  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,084
    VR's acceptance I think of this commercial...


    kitaradsvannbcbully
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    I think VR compatible would be good. Kinda like "Mouse Look" for the headset set in I suppose, with pretty much everything else as it already is.

    Not sure how well that would work.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,527
    The first paragraph of the OP I agree with. After that, well, I'm not getting why VR and only VR makes for a good game. There are more lanes in this genre than just that. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,070
    Since I suffer from headaches from the FOV and headbobbing the thought of VR makes me want to puke.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,723
    VR is still in the infancy stages. It will be a while before it something that matters. As it stands now, the % of people who use VR and do so MMOing, it a very small market. Not even a blip. 
    Catibrie



  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,186
    Maybe when VR develops to the point where you have near 180 degrees of FOV.  I should not have to turn my head to see to the side.  IRL I just turn eyeballs. 
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,009
    Image result for Troll movie
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,176
    Virtual Reality?  No thanks.  I have enough headaches without some contraption messing with my brain.

    I think there's enough hazards ready to pull Pantheon apart.  How many people will this slow game play attract?  How will the community mesh?  Will a market saturated with similar, but free offerings accept the antiquated subscription method?  Are there other revenue streams for VR (the company) to supplement basic subscriptions that doesn't invoke the 'cash shop reaction' and claims of P2W from purists?

    For me, Pantheon is a failure even before it launches because it is trying to recreate the past.  There aren't any new ideas being brought to the game, the only new things seem to be extensive use of a thesaurus to name elements that were in older games but unnamed.  It fails on principle because it doesn't attempt to pull the genre forward.  Instead, it has chosen to tread on safe and familiar ground.

    The best hope for Pantheon is probably for it to manage to force EQ1 and EQ2 to shut down, pulling all those loyal customers to their banner.  Maybe it gets really lucky and forces other old games (DAoC, PWI, etc.) that are barely hanging on to close their doors.  Pantheon as a sheepdog, gathering all the far-flung herd back together?  It may be possible.  It may also be the best strategy for long-term success.  Even I think that might be a stretch.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
    edited May 25
    My point was, the game is trying to recapture the glory days.... it won’t happen with this game as it’s not why you liked those old MMOs. You liked the old MMOs because they were ground breaking, you felt immersed in an experience you never had before. 

    I think VR is the only thing other than being the next Blizzard MMO, it’s the only thing that can offer how you first felt in EQ. 

    No no one is making a VR MMO, now it has to have the budget and scale... but the next EQ or WoW will be a full, proper MMO in VR. 


    What I’m not saying is add VR to this game, I think this game is DOA because it’s making the same mistakes we’ve had from everyone else who tried to make an MMO since 2005.... including Vanguard.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,611
    edited May 25
    tixylix said:
    My point was, the game is trying to recapture the glory days.... it won’t happen with this game as it’s not why you liked those old MMOs. You liked the old MMOs because they were ground breaking, you felt immersed in an experience you never had before. 

    I think VR is the only thing other than being the next Blizzard MMO, it’s the only thing that can offer how you first felt in EQ. 

    No no one is making a VR MMO, now it has to have the budget and scale... but the next EQ or WoW will be a full, proper MMO in VR. 


    What I’m not saying is add VR to this game, I think this game is DOA because it’s making the same mistakes we’ve had from everyone else who tried to make an MMO since 2005.... including Vanguard.
    That's an interesting point, but VR is ground breaking in a totally different way. The technological breakthrough of the early MMORPG's was the shared experience on a large scale, large enough to have a community. VR is basically a graphics improvement and it is one you find in a small number of games already.

    I am not sure there is any technological breakthrough that other games will not steal the march on MMOs before MMOs get launched with it now. They have longer development cycles which put them at a disadvantage in scoring such 'firsts'.
    ArteriusGdemami

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  • tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
    Scot said:
    tixylix said:
    My point was, the game is trying to recapture the glory days.... it won’t happen with this game as it’s not why you liked those old MMOs. You liked the old MMOs because they were ground breaking, you felt immersed in an experience you never had before. 

    I think VR is the only thing other than being the next Blizzard MMO, it’s the only thing that can offer how you first felt in EQ. 

    No no one is making a VR MMO, now it has to have the budget and scale... but the next EQ or WoW will be a full, proper MMO in VR. 


    What I’m not saying is add VR to this game, I think this game is DOA because it’s making the same mistakes we’ve had from everyone else who tried to make an MMO since 2005.... including Vanguard.
    That's an interesting point, but VR is ground breaking in a totally different way. The technological breakthrough of the early MMORPG's was the shared experience on a large scale, large enough to have a community. VR is basically a graphics improvement and it is one you find in a small number of games already.

    I am not sure there is any technological breakthrough that other games will not steal the march on MMOs before MMOs get launched with it now. They have longer development cycles which put them at a disadvantage in scoring such 'firsts'.
    VR is not a graphics improvement, in fact the graphics are worse in almost every game. And you don't need the resources for the development either, it's like the days of 90s, where these games were built by a handful of people. You don't even need to animate well, everything can look like Rayman and it just somehow looks better than when characters have limbs... it's odd how lifelike Rec Room looks for example. 

    VR is about presence, it's about feeling immersed in another wold... and the is what the original MMOs captured. I have such a feeling playing certain VR games, and all I can relate it to is like when I first played EQ and a few other early MMOs. This is why I think it's a perfect fit for replicating that old feel we all used to have back in the day.

    I actually found one game that claims to be an MMO today called OrbusVR Reborn. I'll give it a try if there is a demo or something, but I'd love to see what a real experienced developer could do as the world loos rather uninteresting in that game. 

    And VR has the potential to make the tedium in MMOs and turn it into something fun, but because it is novel to use your hands like you would in real life. I just imagine fishing, or crafting or even combat, in most MMOs it's boring, but in VR, suddenly you're actually doing it. The great thing is by using your hands and not pressing a button, it takes far long to do anything, so you can take the grind away too.

    I'm really confident in my opinion here, and I've been around since the genre has started, and I've never been wrong on what MMO was going to succeed or not... mostly because they almost always die straight away. However I can guarantee you this game will flop and die, I just don't understand why these developers cannot see this. It's as if they get comfortable earning a salary, and they just don't ask questions as long as their family is secure. 


    GdemamiDvora
  • scooby1971scooby1971 Member UncommonPosts: 15
    VR is great however far from ready for MMORPG's, it would simply end up being just a novelty MMO then quickly die off. When the VR hardware gets quicker, cheaper , more comfortable for long game play and the control mechanisms become more precise and less tiresome then yes it would get my vote. 

    For now a modern day MMORPG with classical game play and real challenge,  coupled with a 4K large monitor is on my want list.  
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,872
    So you make a niche game and then make it even more niche by going the VR route?

    Umm - you do realize that they want to have as many players as possible? The goal is not to reduce the playerbase to as few as possible.

    Tokken
  • PhaenPhaen Member UncommonPosts: 42
    Pantheon is old school, but in essence only. The graphics have been vastly improved and they are added a lot of new features not found in the earlier games such as eq1. Its going to be an MMO, slow play yes, but that allows for the tactics that made those games great. Modern MMO's generally come across as what could be best described as AMMO's action paced hack and slash which does appeal to some and is arguably more life like and better for PvP. However this is what also detracts from the original games soul if you like.
    VR would more suited to this modern style of fast paced gameplay but there in lies the problem of motion sickness and controller freedom. I think the Anime concept of Deep dive / neural link is where a VRMMO needs to go, but were a fairway's off that.
    For now Pantheon will succeed in what it wants to do, bring EQ1 up to date in a fashion for those wanting that type of experience. Will it be genre changing success? the next big MMO? not likely, but it was never meant to be. You just have to let those who what a more strategic style of game with group based mechanics, enjoy it for what it is. Like Vanguard was to EQ1, this will be again, changes sure, but the same underlying tenants that appeal to that player group.
    Does it suck that there are no MMO's that are creating the next big thing? yep, but no MMO is going to please everybody, and after the last few years of eastern MMO's, its clear that gameplay/ style matters a whole lot more than graphics and fast paced realism. If you can have both, I'm all for it, but still waiting :)
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,186
    There arent even any VR mmo's and yet people are claiming it has to have it or else fail?  Get real.  If there were even one good VR mmo out there you might be able to argue that no one would play without it.  But you dont even have one to compare to.

    If Im wrong name it.
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