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MMORPG.com : General : Rune II & Its Epic Games Store Exclusivity Explained

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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Torval said:
    SBFord said:
    Kalafax said:
    When Epics Game Store gets all the extrs Features Steam has, such as a community feeds/forums, Stat tracker, Family Game Sharing, Community Modding workshop, and many other facets of Steam that have made it the great that it is today ( and one of the reasons they can charge the extra percentages they ask for ), then I will give Epic a shot. As of now Epics Game Shop is just a hollow shell of an online shop, with barely any games, and most of the ones on it are garbage, and it doesnt even come close to comparing to any other Game Shop platform.
    You can, in fact, keep track of the development roadmap and check out all the planned features for EGS:

    https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap
    Why these guys are given a pass is beyond me. They're a multibillion dollar company. We wouldn't and haven't put up with this from EA or Ubisoft and the likes, but Epic gets a pass. They have the resources, but they just don't value the customer experience. Sweeney himself is on record for plainly stating as much.

    Itch.io is an indie store front that caters especially to indies. Despite their size they offer good incentives for studios/publishers while still caring about the consumer as well. Even though they're small they still offer native Linux and Mac clients, along with Windows, to make purchasers feel welcome. They don't have Steam features, but they're actually small and not cash rich unlike Epic. They get a pass because they're actually trying, progressing, and succeeding with no Fortnite bankroll.

    Why are we treating a multibillion dollar company that is over 40% owned by the worlds biggest publisher like they're a struggling indie that finds web dev hard?
    I don't believe it's that this store gets a pass and the other stores didn't. It's an overall experience, and it's also the games available.  Origins exclusivity was hokey at best. There weren't a lot of games that were exclusive, and it was the same situation, the games that were exclusive that people wanted to play, they went to origin to play them. 

    Epic is different because they have a lot of exclusive released titles.  

    I still don't understand it... a store is a store.  You aren't being forced to drive 30 minutes to get a different item, you're literally typing in a different web address. 

    I care nothing for steam. Not over any other store.  At best you can look at the reviews before you buy a game and hope that they give you what you're looking for, at worst, jaded gamers lash out at developers and tank their scores.  Steam never seems to put games in my queue that interest me.  I don't care about the achievements, cards and nonsense like that.. it's bloat.

    I go to stores to buy games, and then I play the games.  Apparently other people feel differently, and all that amounts to, is that they won't get to play some games when they release.  They've made their decision, they shouldn't complain about it.
    The amount of anime-laden Asian games that appear in my queue is baffling considering my Steam games list and play time scream those titles aren't my preference.

    I've stopped using the Discovery queue, unfortunately.
    EponyxDamormaskedweaselSBFord

    image
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,645
    Torval said:
    Gamers forgive and forget easily. If we didn't EA, Tencent, Activision,  Sony, Microsoft, and Netease wouldn't still be the top dogs. Every single one of those companies have majorly screwed the consumer over, without real apology, at some point and they're still on top. They feel a momentary revenue hit, a small stock dip - for a time, and then it's back to biz as usual.


    I think it's because, in the end not a lot of people really care. Oh sure, they might be miffed for one reason or another but these are video games. They aren't medicine. 

    For me, I don't care up until the point I care.

    If I buy games on Epic and there are no issues then why should I care?

    If I buy a game on Epic and there are issues with my credit card where they charge me multiple times or I buy a game but it can't download and once it downloads it crashes all the time then "I care."

    Those other companies make missteps, sure. But they offer products that people want and like and as long as people are satisfied with enough of their offerings then it's a non-factor.

    Some gamers think that just because people play video games that they are plugged into all little dramas that seem to come up. I bet most people just don't care as long as they get a game they enjoy. And I bet most people aren't going to criticize every little detail or scrutinize every small problem. Probably acknowledge it and move on.

    I think Masked Weasel has the right of it.
    SBFordMadFrenchie
  • mklinicmklinic Member UncommonPosts: 1,640
    The amount of anime-laden Asian games that appear in my queue is baffling considering my Steam games list and play time scream those titles aren't my preference.

    I've stopped using the Discovery queue, unfortunately.
    A little off topic, but you can specify tags (up to three last I set them) that you want to filter out of your discovery queue. You can also filter Early Access/Unreleased stuff as well. Just passing it on if you had not already seen this functionality.
    MadFrenchie

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,010
    Torval said:
    SBFord said:
    Kalafax said:
    When Epics Game Store gets all the extrs Features Steam has, such as a community feeds/forums, Stat tracker, Family Game Sharing, Community Modding workshop, and many other facets of Steam that have made it the great that it is today ( and one of the reasons they can charge the extra percentages they ask for ), then I will give Epic a shot. As of now Epics Game Shop is just a hollow shell of an online shop, with barely any games, and most of the ones on it are garbage, and it doesnt even come close to comparing to any other Game Shop platform.
    You can, in fact, keep track of the development roadmap and check out all the planned features for EGS:

    https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap
    Why these guys are given a pass is beyond me. They're a multibillion dollar company. We wouldn't and haven't put up with this from EA or Ubisoft and the likes, but Epic gets a pass. They have the resources, but they just don't value the customer experience. Sweeney himself is on record for plainly stating as much.

    Itch.io is an indie store front that caters especially to indies. Despite their size they offer good incentives for studios/publishers while still caring about the consumer as well. Even though they're small they still offer native Linux and Mac clients, along with Windows, to make purchasers feel welcome. They don't have Steam features, but they're actually small and not cash rich unlike Epic. They get a pass because they're actually trying, progressing, and succeeding with no Fortnite bankroll.

    Why are we treating a multibillion dollar company that is over 40% owned by the worlds biggest publisher like they're a struggling indie that finds web dev hard?
    I don't believe it's that this store gets a pass and the other stores didn't. It's an overall experience, and it's also the games available.  Origins exclusivity was hokey at best. There weren't a lot of games that were exclusive, and it was the same situation, the games that were exclusive that people wanted to play, they went to origin to play them. 

    Epic is different because they have a lot of exclusive released titles.  

    I still don't understand it... a store is a store.  You aren't being forced to drive 30 minutes to get a different item, you're literally typing in a different web address. 

    I care nothing for steam. Not over any other store.  At best you can look at the reviews before you buy a game and hope that they give you what you're looking for, at worst, jaded gamers lash out at developers and tank their scores.  Steam never seems to put games in my queue that interest me.  I don't care about the achievements, cards and nonsense like that.. it's bloat.

    I go to stores to buy games, and then I play the games.  Apparently other people feel differently, and all that amounts to, is that they won't get to play some games when they release.  They've made their decision, they shouldn't complain about it.
    The amount of anime-laden Asian games that appear in my queue is baffling considering my Steam games list and play time scream those titles aren't my preference.

    I've stopped using the Discovery queue, unfortunately.
    What does your Epic store discovery queue show you?
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,645
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    SBFord said:
    Kalafax said:
    When Epics Game Store gets all the extrs Features Steam has, such as a community feeds/forums, Stat tracker, Family Game Sharing, Community Modding workshop, and many other facets of Steam that have made it the great that it is today ( and one of the reasons they can charge the extra percentages they ask for ), then I will give Epic a shot. As of now Epics Game Shop is just a hollow shell of an online shop, with barely any games, and most of the ones on it are garbage, and it doesnt even come close to comparing to any other Game Shop platform.
    You can, in fact, keep track of the development roadmap and check out all the planned features for EGS:

    https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap
    Why these guys are given a pass is beyond me. They're a multibillion dollar company. We wouldn't and haven't put up with this from EA or Ubisoft and the likes, but Epic gets a pass. They have the resources, but they just don't value the customer experience. Sweeney himself is on record for plainly stating as much.

    Itch.io is an indie store front that caters especially to indies. Despite their size they offer good incentives for studios/publishers while still caring about the consumer as well. Even though they're small they still offer native Linux and Mac clients, along with Windows, to make purchasers feel welcome. They don't have Steam features, but they're actually small and not cash rich unlike Epic. They get a pass because they're actually trying, progressing, and succeeding with no Fortnite bankroll.

    Why are we treating a multibillion dollar company that is over 40% owned by the worlds biggest publisher like they're a struggling indie that finds web dev hard?
    I don't believe it's that this store gets a pass and the other stores didn't. It's an overall experience, and it's also the games available.  Origins exclusivity was hokey at best. There weren't a lot of games that were exclusive, and it was the same situation, the games that were exclusive that people wanted to play, they went to origin to play them. 

    Epic is different because they have a lot of exclusive released titles.  

    I still don't understand it... a store is a store.  You aren't being forced to drive 30 minutes to get a different item, you're literally typing in a different web address. 

    I care nothing for steam. Not over any other store.  At best you can look at the reviews before you buy a game and hope that they give you what you're looking for, at worst, jaded gamers lash out at developers and tank their scores.  Steam never seems to put games in my queue that interest me.  I don't care about the achievements, cards and nonsense like that.. it's bloat.

    I go to stores to buy games, and then I play the games.  Apparently other people feel differently, and all that amounts to, is that they won't get to play some games when they release.  They've made their decision, they shouldn't complain about it.
    The amount of anime-laden Asian games that appear in my queue is baffling considering my Steam games list and play time scream those titles aren't my preference.

    I've stopped using the Discovery queue, unfortunately.
    What does your Epic store discovery queue show you?
    That there is absolutely no need for a discovery queue? ;)
    MadFrenchiemaskedweaselgervaise1
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited May 2019
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    SBFord said:
    Kalafax said:
    When Epics Game Store gets all the extrs Features Steam has, such as a community feeds/forums, Stat tracker, Family Game Sharing, Community Modding workshop, and many other facets of Steam that have made it the great that it is today ( and one of the reasons they can charge the extra percentages they ask for ), then I will give Epic a shot. As of now Epics Game Shop is just a hollow shell of an online shop, with barely any games, and most of the ones on it are garbage, and it doesnt even come close to comparing to any other Game Shop platform.
    You can, in fact, keep track of the development roadmap and check out all the planned features for EGS:

    https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap
    Why these guys are given a pass is beyond me. They're a multibillion dollar company. We wouldn't and haven't put up with this from EA or Ubisoft and the likes, but Epic gets a pass. They have the resources, but they just don't value the customer experience. Sweeney himself is on record for plainly stating as much.

    Itch.io is an indie store front that caters especially to indies. Despite their size they offer good incentives for studios/publishers while still caring about the consumer as well. Even though they're small they still offer native Linux and Mac clients, along with Windows, to make purchasers feel welcome. They don't have Steam features, but they're actually small and not cash rich unlike Epic. They get a pass because they're actually trying, progressing, and succeeding with no Fortnite bankroll.

    Why are we treating a multibillion dollar company that is over 40% owned by the worlds biggest publisher like they're a struggling indie that finds web dev hard?
    I don't believe it's that this store gets a pass and the other stores didn't. It's an overall experience, and it's also the games available.  Origins exclusivity was hokey at best. There weren't a lot of games that were exclusive, and it was the same situation, the games that were exclusive that people wanted to play, they went to origin to play them. 

    Epic is different because they have a lot of exclusive released titles.  

    I still don't understand it... a store is a store.  You aren't being forced to drive 30 minutes to get a different item, you're literally typing in a different web address. 

    I care nothing for steam. Not over any other store.  At best you can look at the reviews before you buy a game and hope that they give you what you're looking for, at worst, jaded gamers lash out at developers and tank their scores.  Steam never seems to put games in my queue that interest me.  I don't care about the achievements, cards and nonsense like that.. it's bloat.

    I go to stores to buy games, and then I play the games.  Apparently other people feel differently, and all that amounts to, is that they won't get to play some games when they release.  They've made their decision, they shouldn't complain about it.
    The amount of anime-laden Asian games that appear in my queue is baffling considering my Steam games list and play time scream those titles aren't my preference.

    I've stopped using the Discovery queue, unfortunately.
    What does your Epic store discovery queue show you?
    Nothing.  Which is fine by me (I still use Steam).  See the post you quoted for details.

    image
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    edited May 2019
    ....
    The amount of anime-laden Asian games that appear in my queue is baffling considering my Steam games list and play time scream those titles aren't my preference.

    I've stopped using the Discovery queue, unfortunately.
    That reminds me of people complaining about youtube algorithm showing videos they don't want to see, while the algorithm tailors the videos according to their history.
    Is there something you want to tell us @MadFrenchie ?

    The only people losing from this whole story is:
    • Kickstarter and companies living out of similar crowdfunding projects.
    • Indie developers that rely on customer goodwill to raise money.
    Steam doesn't really care, since they are largely unaffected by the whole thing so far. They might start caring when Epic won't need exclusive to attract developers or customers, which for now seems an unlikely thing.
    Epic doesn't care about losing money, for now.
  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    edited May 2019
    SBFord said:
    I go to stores to buy games, and then I play the games.  Apparently other people feel differently, and all that amounts to, is that they won't get to play some games when they release.  They've made their decision, they shouldn't complain about it.
    I 100% agree. People talk about the giant that is Epic and being partially owned by Tencent like it's the doom of the western world. Why does Valve get a pass for Steam? What has it done to engender such adoration other than earn literally billions for Gabe Newell and investors? Why is Valve so beloved for its almost complete monopoly of the digital games world for a decade when all the other EVUL CORPORATIONS in gaming today are not? It defies explanation. :smile:

    By the way...Gabe Newell's net worth is $3.9 BILLION DOLLARS. But he's a good guy amiright? :D

    I dunno. People can go ahead and get bent out of shape. I'll just go play games and pick more important battles to fight. This world has a helluva lot bigger problems than which gaming platform carries what games. 
    I'll tell ya why, Steam saved the PC game industry, it was on a downward spiral and now it's not far away from console sales.

    Epic is strong arming their way in with bully like techniques by taking away games previously sold and pre-ordered on Steam.  That's going to piss an audience off alone.  Gabe Newell's net worth has nothing to do with being a good or a bad guy.  He's an industry hero and will go down in history as the savior of PC gaming.  What has Tim done that is worthy to even stand a foot on that same pedestal?

    When everyone abandoned the PC market, Valve was there to not only support it but work damn hard to bring it back.  Epic was no where to be found they were having a hay day selling on console, completely abandon their PC audience.

    So if you want to really dig deep in the wound that will never heal, there ya go.  Competition is great and all but only when it is done right, what Epic is doing is just being a fuckin dick.
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Xasapis said:
    ....
    The amount of anime-laden Asian games that appear in my queue is baffling considering my Steam games list and play time scream those titles aren't my preference.

    I've stopped using the Discovery queue, unfortunately.
    That reminds me of people complaining about youtube algorithm showing videos they don't want to see, while the algorithm tailors the videos according to their history.
    Is there something you want to tell us @MadFrenchie ?

    The only people losing from this whole story is:
    • Kickstarter and companies living out of similar crowdfunding projects.
    • Indie developers that rely on customer goodwill to raise money.
    Steam doesn't really care, since they are largely unaffected by the whole thing so far. They might start caring when Epic won't need exclusive to attract developers or customers, which for now seems an unlikely thing.
    Epic doesn't care about losing money, for now.
    Not really.  Steam's tags are notoriously loose.

    image
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    edited May 2019
    @Hashbrick I see. So...because 10 years ago Valve came in and "saved" PC gaming they should get a pass as a greedy corporation forever? What about Epic's huge influence on gaming because of the Unreal Engine and all the free assets they provide that have allowed indy developers around the world to make games that might not have ever seen the light of day?

    People can't have it both ways. They're either both doing what a corporation does and adding flavor and competition to the market or they're both greedy life-sucking corporate conglomerates that are only out to remove as much hard-earned cash as possible from every rube who comes along.

    Honestly, companies don't buy my loyalty for what they've done in the past. They get my loyalty through good prices and good games that I want to play. I'll go where those games are irrespective of who's pushing it out.
    AmatheSovrathmaskedweaselMadFrenchie


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,399
    While I admire people who make purchasing decisions based on each seller's status as a good or bad corporate citizen/employer, really I just buy what I like when something is at a price I can afford.

    For example, I was really mad at BP for their last huge oil spill. I was never going to buy gas from them again. That personal boycott went on about six months and I went back to being a mindless consumer drone. 

    I do feel sort of guilty about this. Too much so to cast the first stone.
    SBFord

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,679
    Sees an article about rune 2 and Epic Store exclusivity.

    Reads an article about Human Head securing extra funding through Epic to be able to actually finish Rune 2 with one caveat, temporary exclusivity through the Epic Store.

    Reads how Human Head, without questions asked, refunds any person unhappy with this unexpected change.

    Thinks about how great all of that is, no losers, just winners and a (probably) amazing game being abled to get finished due to Epics support.

    Heads off to forums curious to see the reactions.

    Finds people turned into poo slinging monekys suffering from Stockholm Syndrom just because Epic Store and exclusivity are being mentioned in the same article.

    Wonders if any of these people actually understand that without the extra funding there wouldn't be a Rune 2 at all....

    Goes off to buy a game wherever and whenever because that is what should actually matter, a high quality game.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    SBFordMadFrenchiegervaise1Sovrath
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    SBFord said:
    @Hashbrick I see. So...because 10 years ago Valve came in and "saved" PC gaming they should get a pass as a greedy corporation forever? What about Epic's huge influence on gaming because of the Unreal Engine and all the free assets they provide that have allowed indy developers around the world to make games that might not have ever seen the light of day?

    People can't have it both ways. They're either both doing what a corporation does and adding flavor and competition to the market or they're both greedy life-sucking corporate conglomerates that are only out to remove as much hard-earned cash as possible from every rube who comes along.

    Honestly, companies don't buy my loyalty for what they've done in the past. They get my loyalty through good prices and good games that I want to play. I'll go where those games are irrespective of who's pushing it out.
    I don't see Epic at all in the same light as you do for Unreal. Unity was there for the indies not Epic.  Epic started changing it's tone when Fortnite became an overwhelming flow of cash.

    They aren't in it to save small companies, their cut is lower cause they know if they came in at the same cut steam does then they would be non-existent as a storefront.  You bet your ass they are using that to play their harp filled songs though. 

    The major difference for me is the tactics. Epic is using exclusives to play in the market, that pisses me off.  I like all my stuff on one platform, I never had to deal with this before, no matter where I bought it there was a Steam key.  If I buy it on Epic I don't get a Steam key.  They are selectively taking away my freedom to shop where ever I want by holding the games I want hostage.

    You can say, boohoo just download a new launcher and play it but to me that's a god damn hassle and one I never had to deal with so why should I have to deal with it now.  I don't need PC turning into console where console X doesn't have game X.  Now PC platform X doesn't have game X.

    If you want good prices you don't buy of the platform anyway, there is plenty of alternative methods to get a good deal.

    You are effectively saying you'd give up Facebook for MySpace... think about that for a second.
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited May 2019
    Hashbrick said:
    SBFord said:
    @Hashbrick I see. So...because 10 years ago Valve came in and "saved" PC gaming they should get a pass as a greedy corporation forever? What about Epic's huge influence on gaming because of the Unreal Engine and all the free assets they provide that have allowed indy developers around the world to make games that might not have ever seen the light of day?

    People can't have it both ways. They're either both doing what a corporation does and adding flavor and competition to the market or they're both greedy life-sucking corporate conglomerates that are only out to remove as much hard-earned cash as possible from every rube who comes along.

    Honestly, companies don't buy my loyalty for what they've done in the past. They get my loyalty through good prices and good games that I want to play. I'll go where those games are irrespective of who's pushing it out.
    I don't see Epic at all in the same light as you do for Unreal. Unity was there for the indies not Epic.  Epic started changing it's tone when Fortnite became an overwhelming flow of cash.

    They aren't in it to save small companies, their cut is lower cause they know if they came in at the same cut steam does then they would be non-existent as a storefront.  You bet your ass they are using that to play their harp filled songs though. 

    The major difference for me is the tactics. Epic is using exclusives to play in the market, that pisses me off.  I like all my stuff on one platform, I never had to deal with this before, no matter where I bought it there was a Steam key.  If I buy it on Epic I don't get a Steam key.  They are selectively taking away my freedom to shop where ever I want by holding the games I want hostage.

    You can say, boohoo just download a new launcher and play it but to me that's a god damn hassle and one I never had to deal with so why should I have to deal with it now.  I don't need PC turning into console where console X doesn't have game X.  Now PC platform X doesn't have game X.

    If you want good prices you don't buy of the platform anyway, there is plenty of alternative methods to get a good deal.

    You are effectively saying you'd give up Facebook for MySpace... think about that for a second.
    That's not a great analogy, because you're assuming folks use Steam exactly the way you do: as a storefront and place to communicate/coordinate play with friends, discuss the games, etc..  I coordinate with my Steam friends through voice chat in Discord.  I rarely, if ever, use Steam discussion forums.  I come here.

    So for me, MySpace and Facebook are nowhere near the same or similar to Steam and Epic Store.  The social tools Steam has built in are nearly useless to me.

    The thing I've noticed throughout these discussions is this: if you depend on Steam to be "more than just a store" to you, you generally hate Epic passionately for their efforts to enter the market.  If you view Steam as just a store, you don't mind at all that Epic has their own free version.


    In the grand scheme of things, everything Steam is offering as a bonus to me, I get elsewhere on more dedicated platforms.  This is why I don't see Steam as anything more than a store.  None of the extra stuff defines my enjoyment of any given game I play through Steam.  It has almost no effect on my experiences in-game whatsoever.  Same with Epic.  So long as that isn't changing, I don't really care which company logo is on the storefront I purchase my next game from.
    HashbrickSovrathgervaise1maskedweasel

    image
  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    Hashbrick said:
    SBFord said:
    @Hashbrick I see. So...because 10 years ago Valve came in and "saved" PC gaming they should get a pass as a greedy corporation forever? What about Epic's huge influence on gaming because of the Unreal Engine and all the free assets they provide that have allowed indy developers around the world to make games that might not have ever seen the light of day?

    People can't have it both ways. They're either both doing what a corporation does and adding flavor and competition to the market or they're both greedy life-sucking corporate conglomerates that are only out to remove as much hard-earned cash as possible from every rube who comes along.

    Honestly, companies don't buy my loyalty for what they've done in the past. They get my loyalty through good prices and good games that I want to play. I'll go where those games are irrespective of who's pushing it out.
    I don't see Epic at all in the same light as you do for Unreal. Unity was there for the indies not Epic.  Epic started changing it's tone when Fortnite became an overwhelming flow of cash.

    They aren't in it to save small companies, their cut is lower cause they know if they came in at the same cut steam does then they would be non-existent as a storefront.  You bet your ass they are using that to play their harp filled songs though. 

    The major difference for me is the tactics. Epic is using exclusives to play in the market, that pisses me off.  I like all my stuff on one platform, I never had to deal with this before, no matter where I bought it there was a Steam key.  If I buy it on Epic I don't get a Steam key.  They are selectively taking away my freedom to shop where ever I want by holding the games I want hostage.

    You can say, boohoo just download a new launcher and play it but to me that's a god damn hassle and one I never had to deal with so why should I have to deal with it now.  I don't need PC turning into console where console X doesn't have game X.  Now PC platform X doesn't have game X.

    If you want good prices you don't buy of the platform anyway, there is plenty of alternative methods to get a good deal.

    You are effectively saying you'd give up Facebook for MySpace... think about that for a second.
    That's not a great analogy, because you're assuming folks use Steam exactly the way you do: as a storefront and place to communicate/coordinate play with friends, discuss the games, etc..  I coordinate with my Steam friends through voice chat in Discord.  I rarely, if ever, use Steam discussion forums.  I come here.

    So for me, MySpace and Facebook are nowhere near the same or similar to Steam and Epic Store.  The social tools Steam has built in are nearly useless to me.

    The thing I've noticed throughout these discussions is this: if you depend on Steam to be "more than just a store" to you, you generally hate Epic passionately for their efforts to enter the market.  If you view Steam as just a store, you don't mind at all that Epic has their own free version.


    In the grand scheme of things, everything Steam is offering as a bonus to me, I get elsewhere on more dedicated platforms.  This is why I don't see Steam as anything more than a store.  None of the extra stuff defines my enjoyment of any given game I play through Steam.  It has almost no effect on my experiences in-game whatsoever.  Same with Epic.  So long as that isn't changing, I don't really care which company logo is on the storefront I purchase my next game from.
    Great point, you are right it does matter on the investment of said platform.
    MadFrenchiemaskedweasel
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Hashbrick said:
    SBFord said:
    I go to stores to buy games, and then I play the games.  Apparently other people feel differently, and all that amounts to, is that they won't get to play some games when they release.  They've made their decision, they shouldn't complain about it.
    I 100% agree. People talk about the giant that is Epic and being partially owned by Tencent like it's the doom of the western world. Why does Valve get a pass for Steam? What has it done to engender such adoration other than earn literally billions for Gabe Newell and investors? Why is Valve so beloved for its almost complete monopoly of the digital games world for a decade when all the other EVUL CORPORATIONS in gaming today are not? It defies explanation. :smile:

    By the way...Gabe Newell's net worth is $3.9 BILLION DOLLARS. But he's a good guy amiright? :D

    I dunno. People can go ahead and get bent out of shape. I'll just go play games and pick more important battles to fight. This world has a helluva lot bigger problems than which gaming platform carries what games. 
    I'll tell ya why, Steam saved the PC game industry, it was on a downward spiral and now it's not far away from console sales. <snip>

    I obviously missed Steam saving the PC world.

    And all the metrics and charts being produced suggest that PC gaming is still on a downward spiral.

    Whether or not PC is closer to console now than it was 10 years ago doesn't matter. The big difference is that consoles have joined PC games on the downward spiral - due to the arrival of mobile, which Steam, by the way, is happily selling (so no loyalty to PC gaming there, just the pursuit of money.)   

    Going forward with the advent of streaming and cloud gaming the downward spiral for PC and console is likely to continue - doubt it will impact mobile though. 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,645


    The thing I've noticed throughout these discussions is this: if you depend on Steam to be "more than just a store" to you, you generally hate Epic passionately for their efforts to enter the market.  If you view Steam as just a store, you don't mind at all that Epic has their own free version.



    Well said.
    maskedweasel
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited May 2019
    Hashbrick said:
    Hashbrick said:
    SBFord said:
    @Hashbrick I see. So...because 10 years ago Valve came in and "saved" PC gaming they should get a pass as a greedy corporation forever? What about Epic's huge influence on gaming because of the Unreal Engine and all the free assets they provide that have allowed indy developers around the world to make games that might not have ever seen the light of day?

    People can't have it both ways. They're either both doing what a corporation does and adding flavor and competition to the market or they're both greedy life-sucking corporate conglomerates that are only out to remove as much hard-earned cash as possible from every rube who comes along.

    Honestly, companies don't buy my loyalty for what they've done in the past. They get my loyalty through good prices and good games that I want to play. I'll go where those games are irrespective of who's pushing it out.
    I don't see Epic at all in the same light as you do for Unreal. Unity was there for the indies not Epic.  Epic started changing it's tone when Fortnite became an overwhelming flow of cash.

    They aren't in it to save small companies, their cut is lower cause they know if they came in at the same cut steam does then they would be non-existent as a storefront.  You bet your ass they are using that to play their harp filled songs though. 

    The major difference for me is the tactics. Epic is using exclusives to play in the market, that pisses me off.  I like all my stuff on one platform, I never had to deal with this before, no matter where I bought it there was a Steam key.  If I buy it on Epic I don't get a Steam key.  They are selectively taking away my freedom to shop where ever I want by holding the games I want hostage.

    You can say, boohoo just download a new launcher and play it but to me that's a god damn hassle and one I never had to deal with so why should I have to deal with it now.  I don't need PC turning into console where console X doesn't have game X.  Now PC platform X doesn't have game X.

    If you want good prices you don't buy of the platform anyway, there is plenty of alternative methods to get a good deal.

    You are effectively saying you'd give up Facebook for MySpace... think about that for a second.
    That's not a great analogy, because you're assuming folks use Steam exactly the way you do: as a storefront and place to communicate/coordinate play with friends, discuss the games, etc..  I coordinate with my Steam friends through voice chat in Discord.  I rarely, if ever, use Steam discussion forums.  I come here.

    So for me, MySpace and Facebook are nowhere near the same or similar to Steam and Epic Store.  The social tools Steam has built in are nearly useless to me.

    The thing I've noticed throughout these discussions is this: if you depend on Steam to be "more than just a store" to you, you generally hate Epic passionately for their efforts to enter the market.  If you view Steam as just a store, you don't mind at all that Epic has their own free version.


    In the grand scheme of things, everything Steam is offering as a bonus to me, I get elsewhere on more dedicated platforms.  This is why I don't see Steam as anything more than a store.  None of the extra stuff defines my enjoyment of any given game I play through Steam.  It has almost no effect on my experiences in-game whatsoever.  Same with Epic.  So long as that isn't changing, I don't really care which company logo is on the storefront I purchase my next game from.
    Great point, you are right it does matter on the investment of said platform.
    From that perspective, I can understand folks being a little pissed that Epic is using cash to throw their weight around, especially when games are pulling outta Steam based on deals with Epic.  I get that sends ominous signals to folks who use the extra features Steam has and sees Epic spending cash in what seems like a direct atempt to force them to abandon those features for the Epic Store.

    It only took us all eviscerating one another over the course of 5-6 threads to reach the understanding. :D 

    image
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,372
    I cant comment too extensively for professional reasons but I can say that I am a little surprised by the backlash not Epic but Steam has taken over this. Taking 30% (not on all titles btw) is the industry digital standard. What Valve takes is what Goggle takes. What Apple takes. Microsoft. Sony. For Sweeney to take a lesser amount puts them in the red and will require raising prices for developers in the long run. (which will be a shorter time than many think) 
    As a consumer I can see that none of this matters and you just want what you want. 
    For a developer it is more about whether you want to play the long game or the short game in terms of profit and/or exposure. 
    Valve does not make 30% profit off the top of every game sold. Not even 25% 
    Sweeney knows the exact number Valve makes per average and set their number accordingly so Steam could not match it for fear of going into the red.  
    Make no mistake, Epic is losing money on all of this. They are playing the long game. Take a loss now to earn a profit later. 
    Prices and percentages will rise. 
    The fight Sweeney should be fighting with Steam is not titles and prices but with features and expansion on what a digital store front can be. 
    But we all know Sweeney likes to fight more than anything else ;)
    TorvalSovrath

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    Hashbrick said:
    Hashbrick said:
    SBFord said:
    @Hashbrick I see. So...because 10 years ago Valve came in and "saved" PC gaming they should get a pass as a greedy corporation forever? What about Epic's huge influence on gaming because of the Unreal Engine and all the free assets they provide that have allowed indy developers around the world to make games that might not have ever seen the light of day?

    People can't have it both ways. They're either both doing what a corporation does and adding flavor and competition to the market or they're both greedy life-sucking corporate conglomerates that are only out to remove as much hard-earned cash as possible from every rube who comes along.

    Honestly, companies don't buy my loyalty for what they've done in the past. They get my loyalty through good prices and good games that I want to play. I'll go where those games are irrespective of who's pushing it out.
    I don't see Epic at all in the same light as you do for Unreal. Unity was there for the indies not Epic.  Epic started changing it's tone when Fortnite became an overwhelming flow of cash.

    They aren't in it to save small companies, their cut is lower cause they know if they came in at the same cut steam does then they would be non-existent as a storefront.  You bet your ass they are using that to play their harp filled songs though. 

    The major difference for me is the tactics. Epic is using exclusives to play in the market, that pisses me off.  I like all my stuff on one platform, I never had to deal with this before, no matter where I bought it there was a Steam key.  If I buy it on Epic I don't get a Steam key.  They are selectively taking away my freedom to shop where ever I want by holding the games I want hostage.

    You can say, boohoo just download a new launcher and play it but to me that's a god damn hassle and one I never had to deal with so why should I have to deal with it now.  I don't need PC turning into console where console X doesn't have game X.  Now PC platform X doesn't have game X.

    If you want good prices you don't buy of the platform anyway, there is plenty of alternative methods to get a good deal.

    You are effectively saying you'd give up Facebook for MySpace... think about that for a second.
    That's not a great analogy, because you're assuming folks use Steam exactly the way you do: as a storefront and place to communicate/coordinate play with friends, discuss the games, etc..  I coordinate with my Steam friends through voice chat in Discord.  I rarely, if ever, use Steam discussion forums.  I come here.

    So for me, MySpace and Facebook are nowhere near the same or similar to Steam and Epic Store.  The social tools Steam has built in are nearly useless to me.

    The thing I've noticed throughout these discussions is this: if you depend on Steam to be "more than just a store" to you, you generally hate Epic passionately for their efforts to enter the market.  If you view Steam as just a store, you don't mind at all that Epic has their own free version.


    In the grand scheme of things, everything Steam is offering as a bonus to me, I get elsewhere on more dedicated platforms.  This is why I don't see Steam as anything more than a store.  None of the extra stuff defines my enjoyment of any given game I play through Steam.  It has almost no effect on my experiences in-game whatsoever.  Same with Epic.  So long as that isn't changing, I don't really care which company logo is on the storefront I purchase my next game from.
    Great point, you are right it does matter on the investment of said platform.
    From that perspective, I can understand folks being a little pissed that Epic is using cash to throw their weight around, especially when games are pulling outta Steam based on deals with Epic.  I get that sends ominous signals to folks who use the extra features Steam has and sees Epic spending cash in what seems like a direct atempt to force them to abandon those features for the Epic Store.

    It only took us all eviscerating one another over the course of 5-6 threads to reach the understanding. :D 
    Sometimes it only takes one well thought out post to create that understanding. Well done.
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    gervaise1 said:
    Hashbrick said:
    SBFord said:
    I go to stores to buy games, and then I play the games.  Apparently other people feel differently, and all that amounts to, is that they won't get to play some games when they release.  They've made their decision, they shouldn't complain about it.
    I 100% agree. People talk about the giant that is Epic and being partially owned by Tencent like it's the doom of the western world. Why does Valve get a pass for Steam? What has it done to engender such adoration other than earn literally billions for Gabe Newell and investors? Why is Valve so beloved for its almost complete monopoly of the digital games world for a decade when all the other EVUL CORPORATIONS in gaming today are not? It defies explanation. :smile:

    By the way...Gabe Newell's net worth is $3.9 BILLION DOLLARS. But he's a good guy amiright? :D

    I dunno. People can go ahead and get bent out of shape. I'll just go play games and pick more important battles to fight. This world has a helluva lot bigger problems than which gaming platform carries what games. 
    I'll tell ya why, Steam saved the PC game industry, it was on a downward spiral and now it's not far away from console sales. <snip>

    I obviously missed Steam saving the PC world.

    And all the metrics and charts being produced suggest that PC gaming is still on a downward spiral.

    Whether or not PC is closer to console now than it was 10 years ago doesn't matter. The big difference is that consoles have joined PC games on the downward spiral - due to the arrival of mobile, which Steam, by the way, is happily selling (so no loyalty to PC gaming there, just the pursuit of money.)   

    Going forward with the advent of streaming and cloud gaming the downward spiral for PC and console is likely to continue - doubt it will impact mobile though. 
    I mean if you want to live under a rock, live under a rock but don't plead ignorance when you weren't watching as the world was moving on.
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited May 2019
    I cant comment too extensively for professional reasons but I can say that I am a little surprised by the backlash not Epic but Steam has taken over this. Taking 30% (not on all titles btw) is the industry digital standard. What Valve takes is what Goggle takes. What Apple takes. Microsoft. Sony. For Sweeney to take a lesser amount puts them in the red and will require raising prices for developers in the long run. (which will be a shorter time than many think) 
    As a consumer I can see that none of this matters and you just want what you want. 
    For a developer it is more about whether you want to play the long game or the short game in terms of profit and/or exposure. 
    Valve does not make 30% profit off the top of every game sold. Not even 25% 
    Sweeney knows the exact number Valve makes per average and set their number accordingly so Steam could not match it for fear of going into the red.  
    Make no mistake, Epic is losing money on all of this. They are playing the long game. Take a loss now to earn a profit later. 
    Prices and percentages will rise. 
    The fight Sweeney should be fighting with Steam is not titles and prices but with features and expansion on what a digital store front can be. 
    But we all know Sweeney likes to fight more than anything else ;)
    I think there are those of us who aren't interested in what a storefront can be beyond what games it can offer us.  At least, personally, I don't really have a strong desire for having Steam or Epic butt themselves into my gameplay more.

    I see the storefront war as like the console war or video streaming war without the cost to consumers.  That's...  A pretty awesome position for me to be in, considering how those wars persuaded folks like Sony and Microsoft and Netflix and Hulu to invest heavily in original/unique content for their platforms.  And following along that path, we see Epic helping a struggling studio finish QA, and it's cost me nothing as a player except the original, free store download.  I get to enjoy a less buggy game (if I buy it) made possible, in part, by Epic.


    Netflix and Hulu aren't competing via features, they're competing via content.  I think Epic sees this too, which is why these chose exclusive deals over releasing a hugely robust storefront.

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    gervaise1 said:
    Hashbrick said:
    SBFord said:
    I go to stores to buy games, and then I play the games.  Apparently other people feel differently, and all that amounts to, is that they won't get to play some games when they release.  They've made their decision, they shouldn't complain about it.
    I 100% agree. People talk about the giant that is Epic and being partially owned by Tencent like it's the doom of the western world. Why does Valve get a pass for Steam? What has it done to engender such adoration other than earn literally billions for Gabe Newell and investors? Why is Valve so beloved for its almost complete monopoly of the digital games world for a decade when all the other EVUL CORPORATIONS in gaming today are not? It defies explanation. :smile:

    By the way...Gabe Newell's net worth is $3.9 BILLION DOLLARS. But he's a good guy amiright? :D

    I dunno. People can go ahead and get bent out of shape. I'll just go play games and pick more important battles to fight. This world has a helluva lot bigger problems than which gaming platform carries what games. 
    I'll tell ya why, Steam saved the PC game industry, it was on a downward spiral and now it's not far away from console sales. <snip>

    I obviously missed Steam saving the PC world.

    And all the metrics and charts being produced suggest that PC gaming is still on a downward spiral.

    Whether or not PC is closer to console now than it was 10 years ago doesn't matter. The big difference is that consoles have joined PC games on the downward spiral - due to the arrival of mobile, which Steam, by the way, is happily selling (so no loyalty to PC gaming there, just the pursuit of money.)   

    Going forward with the advent of streaming and cloud gaming the downward spiral for PC and console is likely to continue - doubt it will impact mobile though. 
    That's cause mobile players, mostly, become mobile players not for production values, innovative gameplay, or great deals.  That play because they have smartphones on them literally everywhere they go.
    gervaise1

    image
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,010
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    SBFord said:
    Kalafax said:
    When Epics Game Store gets all the extrs Features Steam has, such as a community feeds/forums, Stat tracker, Family Game Sharing, Community Modding workshop, and many other facets of Steam that have made it the great that it is today ( and one of the reasons they can charge the extra percentages they ask for ), then I will give Epic a shot. As of now Epics Game Shop is just a hollow shell of an online shop, with barely any games, and most of the ones on it are garbage, and it doesnt even come close to comparing to any other Game Shop platform.
    You can, in fact, keep track of the development roadmap and check out all the planned features for EGS:

    https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap
    Why these guys are given a pass is beyond me. They're a multibillion dollar company. We wouldn't and haven't put up with this from EA or Ubisoft and the likes, but Epic gets a pass. They have the resources, but they just don't value the customer experience. Sweeney himself is on record for plainly stating as much.

    Itch.io is an indie store front that caters especially to indies. Despite their size they offer good incentives for studios/publishers while still caring about the consumer as well. Even though they're small they still offer native Linux and Mac clients, along with Windows, to make purchasers feel welcome. They don't have Steam features, but they're actually small and not cash rich unlike Epic. They get a pass because they're actually trying, progressing, and succeeding with no Fortnite bankroll.

    Why are we treating a multibillion dollar company that is over 40% owned by the worlds biggest publisher like they're a struggling indie that finds web dev hard?
    I don't believe it's that this store gets a pass and the other stores didn't. It's an overall experience, and it's also the games available.  Origins exclusivity was hokey at best. There weren't a lot of games that were exclusive, and it was the same situation, the games that were exclusive that people wanted to play, they went to origin to play them. 

    Epic is different because they have a lot of exclusive released titles.  

    I still don't understand it... a store is a store.  You aren't being forced to drive 30 minutes to get a different item, you're literally typing in a different web address. 

    I care nothing for steam. Not over any other store.  At best you can look at the reviews before you buy a game and hope that they give you what you're looking for, at worst, jaded gamers lash out at developers and tank their scores.  Steam never seems to put games in my queue that interest me.  I don't care about the achievements, cards and nonsense like that.. it's bloat.

    I go to stores to buy games, and then I play the games.  Apparently other people feel differently, and all that amounts to, is that they won't get to play some games when they release.  They've made their decision, they shouldn't complain about it.
    The amount of anime-laden Asian games that appear in my queue is baffling considering my Steam games list and play time scream those titles aren't my preference.

    I've stopped using the Discovery queue, unfortunately.
    What does your Epic store discovery queue show you?
    Nothing.  Which is fine by me (I still use Steam).  See the post you quoted for details.
    It's not like you have to use the Steam discovery queue either and you can quite easily filter stuff you you don't like. I just thought you were comparing the two store fronts and their approach to sharing games suggestions. I don't use the discovery queue because it's useless to me.

    I still get a lot of good game suggestions though that are tailored to me. The best is probably my curators and "Related Games". The store page is okay because it shows what friends are playing. I can look at my friends recently played list and get ideas from that. Those are quality because the source opinion has value to me.

    The "Related Games" list is something I like to surf because I often discover small studios and publishers and their other games. Additionally the comments section or discussion forum will throw out game comparisons that lead to some interesting fan/genre discussions.

    Then I spend a lot of time at r/PatientGamers, the sig in my sub, because there are good ideas that pop up all the time. There are good quality threads with game specifics, heads up on sales, and some gaming meta. I get a lot of ideas there and a better feel for whether I'll like a game or be interested in trying it.
    MadFrenchie
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,372
    I cant comment too extensively for professional reasons but I can say that I am a little surprised by the backlash not Epic but Steam has taken over this. Taking 30% (not on all titles btw) is the industry digital standard. What Valve takes is what Goggle takes. What Apple takes. Microsoft. Sony. For Sweeney to take a lesser amount puts them in the red and will require raising prices for developers in the long run. (which will be a shorter time than many think) 
    As a consumer I can see that none of this matters and you just want what you want. 

    For a developer it is more about whether you want to play the long game or the short game in terms of profit and/or exposure. 
    Valve does not make 30% profit off the top of every game sold. Not even 25% 
    Sweeney knows the exact number Valve makes per average and set their number accordingly so Steam could not match it for fear of going into the red.  
    Make no mistake, Epic is losing money on all of this. They are playing the long game. Take a loss now to earn a profit later. 
    Prices and percentages will rise. 
    The fight Sweeney should be fighting with Steam is not titles and prices but with features and expansion on what a digital store front can be. 
    But we all know Sweeney likes to fight more than anything else ;)
    I think there are those of us who aren't interested in what a storefront can be beyond what games it can offer us.  At least, personally, I don't really have a strong desire for having Steam or Epic butt themselves into my gameplay more.

    I see the storefront war as like the console war or video streaming war without the cost to consumers.  That's...  A pretty awesome position for me to be in, considering how those wars persuaded folks like Sony and Microsoft and Netflix and Hulu to invest heavily in original/unique content for their platforms.  And following along that path, we see Epic helping a struggling studio finish QA, and it's cost me nothing as a player except the original, free store download.  I get to enjoy a less buggy game (if I buy it) made possible, in part, by Epic.


    Netflix and Hulu aren't competing via features, they're competing via content.  I think Epic sees this too, which is why these chose exclusive deals over releasing a hugely robust storefront.
    Not the same at all but I get it from your point of view which is why I said what I said about a consumer. ;)

    For a developer of a multiplayer game the platform you choose can matter greatly. Also DRM can matter greatly. As does the modding community behind many games. Sometimes those 'features' go way beyond what a consumer sees and can impact the player's experience. Just my professional opinion. 
     I owe Valve my career so I will always side with them but I understand both sides. 
    TorvalMadFrenchie

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












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