Ever ask a kid what he is playing? The answer may shed light on the future of mmorpgs.

Amathe

My colleagues bring their children to work, and I will see their kids playing games. I sometimes ask what games they are playing (or that they play at home), and the answer is always the same - stuff I have mostly never heard of.

Occasionally someone will say Minecraft (which I do know about). But the rest of the time, /shrug Whatever it is, it's not a mmorpg.

I am wondering if mmorpgs have mostly lost the youth market (say, 12 and below).

That may partially explain the exposition of cash shops.  Older gamers use cash shops because they have money. Kids seldom have any money, and would have to wheedle it out of Mom and Dad (which is a well you can only drink from so many times).

These kids will grow up and may never get into mmorpgs because that's not what they are used to.

I think mmorpgs need to find a way to appeal to younger gamers, for the benefit of everyone who wants to keep playing these games.

Otherwise expect cash shop P2W for as far as the eye can see.

Gutlard

My kids play mobile shovelware for free, some .io games and Fortnite and that's about it. I buy them the new Seasons, and they seem to get a lot of game play out of it, until now. I think they're getting burned out on it finally.

The PC is something 'dad plays,' any other time, even after showing them all the other games I own on Steam. I guess it's just too much to take in or zero in on for them.

When I was their age all I played were consoles and arcade stuff. Hopefully, someday we'll connect and be able to play games online together, after they stop being such a hindrance on my game time. 

Gut Out!

anemo

I was pretty sad watching my nephew and friends open loot boxes.  And everyone actually paying attention and getting excited for each other's stuff.   (Like they would stockpile and take turns at someone's house).

I was the old guy there, confused about why it was a huge thing.  And getting you're old and don't understand looks.   (Worth noting that by this forum's standards I'm young).

Hashbrick

The future is mobile, the kids love playing on a phone.  I never see like a nintendo handled or something, it's always playing on mom/dad's phone.  The market isn't wrong, it's just wrong for the rest of us that grow up in a different world in a time when it all started and geek was actually demeaning, not when it evolved.

Sovrath

The only mmo's I think "kids" are playing are those there parents play with them. Probably from a young age.

I don't think any kids are rushing to mmorpg's. 

The future of mmorpg's are really small games made by small studios for very specific groups of people.

Not until there is some sort of technology shift that can offer more and make them more unique and attractive.

Panther2103

Hashbrick said:

The future is mobile, the kids love playing on a phone.  I never see like a nintendo handled or something, it's always playing on mom/dad's phone.  The market isn't wrong, it's just wrong for the rest of us that grow up in a different world in a time when it all started and geek was actually demeaning, not when it evolved.

Really? I see kids with Nintendo Switches everywhere. I was on a plane last week and saw like 4 different kids throughout the plane playing them when I got up. I do know my younger cousins tend to play a lot of Minecraft on the ipad, but also Fortnite on the console.

Xiaoki

Well, when the big new innovation sweeping MMOs in recent memory is "hey, lets regress back to how MMOs were 20 years ago" is it any wonder that kids have no interest in the genre?

Yeah, going back to the days when tedium and hardship were the main features will definitely win back the kids.

Sovrath

Panther2103 said:

Hashbrick said:

The future is mobile, the kids love playing on a phone.  I never see like a nintendo handled or something, it's always playing on mom/dad's phone.  The market isn't wrong, it's just wrong for the rest of us that grow up in a different world in a time when it all started and geek was actually demeaning, not when it evolved.

Really? I see kids with Nintendo Switches everywhere. I was on a plane last week and saw like 4 different kids throughout the plane playing them when I got up. I do know my younger cousins tend to play a lot of Minecraft on the ipad, but also Fortnite on the console.

But that's "mobile" right?

Hashbrick

Panther2103 said:

Hashbrick said:

The future is mobile, the kids love playing on a phone.  I never see like a nintendo handled or something, it's always playing on mom/dad's phone.  The market isn't wrong, it's just wrong for the rest of us that grow up in a different world in a time when it all started and geek was actually demeaning, not when it evolved.

Really? I see kids with Nintendo Switches everywhere. I was on a plane last week and saw like 4 different kids throughout the plane playing them when I got up. I do know my younger cousins tend to play a lot of Minecraft on the ipad, but also Fortnite on the console.

I think plane rides make sense to bring something like that, but I mean like if I'm in a dr's office, waiting room, grocery store.  All I see is kids playing on phones,  My daughter plays the switch but at home and we never take it out when running errands.  However I would take it on a plane, so that makes a lot of sense you noticed that.  I know I have my phone with me at all times, but rarely am I going to think let's grab the switch.  I'm saying this as a parent that always seems like they are on the go and travel all over the place to various activities and events.  Just my speculation.

blamo2000

I see the problem as the opposite - I stopped playing new mmos specifically because they seem to be made for a market under 12 years old.

I will never be slightly interested in playing a game that someone under 12 can also competently play.  It will never have the gameplay or systems I need to be interested.

I really don't understand this push for huge market homogenization everyone seems to crave and push for.  

TEKK3N

Define 'kids'
What age?

6-10 y/o play mobile
11-16 Fortnite or Mobas or Battle Royale
Basically pewpew games.

MMORPG have never been for youngster.
EQ on Dial-up anyone?
Kids could not afford that kind of past time.

WoW and broadband brought the kids.
If it wasn't for WoW, kids would have never played a MMO.
They are more inclined to play FPS or twitch combat games online (generalization).
This is not something new.

In before "yeah but I was playing EQ when I was nine".
You were the exception, probably because of your dad who was playing it more than you did.

Vermillion_Raventhal

My son has almost no interest in MMORPG.  He played warframe and GTA online on his own and that is about it. He plays survival as well. Sports online and a few BR.

Superman0X

I see the games that are played more tailored to the devices that they can use, than to any specific genre.

Children have access to mobile devices at an early age. This usually starts as access to their parents cell phone, then access to a parents tablet. Eventually they graduate to their own mobile device (because it removes competition with the parents device). 

Mobile devices are usually given a higher priority by parents because it is a self contained device that removes demand to use the parents (phone, tablet, tv, etc), Mobile devices can also be used during travel times, and in environments where there is not always child friendly entertainment (while shopping, at work, etc).

It is not uncommon for children to not have their own static entertainment until their pre-teen (consoles) or teen (laptop/desktop) years. Often these devices are not state of the art (or hand me downs) which means that they are often not able to play the most current games.

It was not until the last decade or so that these pre-teen/teenagers were able to access the internet with a frequency that allowed for multiplayer games to be dominant. At this time, short session based gaming (which is similar to what they had played via mobile devices) with multiplayer elements dominated the young market.

It will take another 5-10 years for larger scale multiplayer (longer sessions, larger scale player interaction) to become popular to the current youth.  You should still expect to see a bias towards short/intense play sessions with small groups. This means that the long epic raids of older games (classic WoW) will have less appeal, but that shorter more intense raids (more like Destiny) will tend to be favored.

What will change this is the rise of multiplayer online games (with longer, more multiplayer sessions) via mobile. As children grow up with this at an earlier age, the demand will grow for this on the more advanced devices (consoles, computers, etc) as they age into these devices. Also the less drastic change in hardware advancement (mobile devices are now much more comparable to static devices in performance) will allow for a more consistent expectation of game quality and performance as the children age.

TLDR: Give it 5-10 years for the cycle to start over again.  

bcbully

Everyone 21 and be below PvPs, period. MMORPG PvP might as be like watching paint dry to them. 

Many of you know I’ve been saying for year MMORPG PvE is dead and the ones who refuse to pvp are killing or at least holding back the genre. 

 No one wants to do some scripted raid or some fetch quest for the loot tredmill.

Nevereverland

Well i have 2 lil sibling who plays games and they dont know anything about mmorpg. Sometime ago i was playing wow vanilla and my lil brother said that oh wow what is this genre its so boring. This actually tells so much about todays problem about games about being casual and mmorpg genre which dies slowly so our only hope is actually 15 years old game WoW Classic.

MadFrenchie

Hashbrick said:

The future is mobile, the kids love playing on a phone.  I never see like a nintendo handled or something, it's always playing on mom/dad's phone.  The market isn't wrong, it's just wrong for the rest of us that grow up in a different world in a time when it all started and geek was actually demeaning, not when it evolved.

I think the mobile market is prepped for a rather hard brick wall in terms of what can be done with the games.  I don't think mobile gaming will ever be the cream of the crop for hardcore/avid gamers.  How many hardcore gamers only play mobile games?

The tactile response, the extra interactivity that's afforded by things like a controller, keyboard+mouse, or VR hand controllers is just way too big compared to using a 5 inch touchscreen with zero tactile response.

Competitive gaming likely won't take off on mobile either, because the reflexes we're amazed at aren't done via actually looking at the controller or keys; it's done by feeling where your fingers are positioned and knowing how the button you want to hit feels when you've placed your finger on it.  That's the confirmation your brain gets without having to leave the object it's focused on.

EDIT- Consider that top grossing mobile games are dominated by the "Clash of Clans" style games.  Those aren't played over something like The Witcher 3 in a direct comparison of equal availability.  They're played because folks have their smartphones on them EVERYWHERE.

AlBQuirky

Wizard101 was made for kids. It has a varying chat system from a highly restricted choice of pre-made phrases/emotes to wide open chat with a hefty "bad word" filter that doesn't even allow misspellings

It also has loot boxes when bosses are defeated, a HUGE cash shop, and undescribed "packages" of stuff. I know it has a healthy population of pre-teens

Other than that one specific MMO, I don't see kids playing in the genre much, if at all. My own son enjoyed EQ back in 2000-2001 when he was 13 or 14.  He doesn't play them now at 32

Theocritus

Gutlard said:

My kids play mobile shovelware for free, some .io games and Fortnite and that's about it. I buy them the new Seasons, and they seem to get a lot of game play out of it, until now. I think they're getting burned out on it finally.

The PC is something 'dad plays,' any other time, even after showing them all the other games I own on Steam. I guess it's just too much to take in or zero in on for them.

When I was their age all I played were consoles and arcade stuff. Hopefully, someday we'll connect and be able to play games online together, after they stop being such a hindrance on my game time. 

Gut Out!

That's just it the PC isn't their thing...The phone, the handheld, the VR, but not the PC......Most kids I ask play whatever is popular at the moment and right now that is Fortnite or something along those lines.....MMORPGs haven't been a thing for over a decade.

MadFrenchie

Food for thought:

"Video game research outfit EEDAR has published data corroborating what many have long suspected: most people play mobile games not for fun, or a challenge, but chiefly to pass some time."

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/270169/Survey_Killing_time_is_the_1_reason_people_play_mobile_games.php


Also: "Despite the high playership (and spend) on mobile, it's critical to note that Super Gamers are using mobile as a supplement to - and not replacement for - HD/PC gaming experiences. When asked to provide their reasons for engaging with mobile, Super Gamers' responses emphasized its convenience and cited its low amount of required attention:"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gamesindustry.biz/amp/2018-08-07-96-percent-of-heavily-engaged-us-gamers-play-on-mobile-eedar

Because you can't realistically play The Last of Us on the shitter, basically.  

Vermillion_Raventhal

bcbully said:

Everyone 21 and be below PvPs, period. MMORPG PvP might as be like watching paint dry to them. 

Many of you know I’ve been saying for year MMORPG PvE is dead and the ones who refuse to pvp are killing or at least holding back the genre. 

 No one wants to do some scripted raid or some fetch quest for the loot tredmill.

Yeah, MMORPG is a very niche experience.  WoW kind of ruined things by dragging us down the themepark hole.  Themepark should supplement the genre not be the whole genre.  Combat and content have always been the weakest part of MMORPG and themepark makes those things the most important part.

laserit

Kids are now being relentlessly subjected to marketing from the time they can pee in the potty.

The world is ever evolving and not always for the better. 

Kyleran

MadFrenchie said:

Food for thought:

"Video game research outfit EEDAR has published data corroborating what many have long suspected: most people play mobile games not for fun, or a challenge, but chiefly to pass some time."

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/270169/Survey_Killing_time_is_the_1_reason_people_play_mobile_games.php


Also: "Despite the high playership (and spend) on mobile, it's critical to note that Super Gamers are using mobile as a supplement to - and not replacement for - HD/PC gaming experiences. When asked to provide their reasons for engaging with mobile, Super Gamers' responses emphasized its convenience and cited its low amount of required attention:"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gamesindustry.biz/amp/2018-08-07-96-percent-of-heavily-engaged-us-gamers-play-on-mobile-eedar

Because you can't realistically play The Last of Us on the shitter, basically.  

Oh my, another great reason I game on a laptop,  took more than one raid into the loo with me. (Definitely making sure my mic was muted)

Sovrath said:

Panther2103 said:

Hashbrick said:

The future is mobile, the kids love playing on a phone.  I never see like a nintendo handled or something, it's always playing on mom/dad's phone.  The market isn't wrong, it's just wrong for the rest of us that grow up in a different world in a time when it all started and geek was actually demeaning, not when it evolved.

Really? I see kids with Nintendo Switches everywhere. I was on a plane last week and saw like 4 different kids throughout the plane playing them when I got up. I do know my younger cousins tend to play a lot of Minecraft on the ipad, but also Fortnite on the console.

But that's "mobile" right?

Funny story, my "child" is 26, and while raised on a steady diet of MMORPGs since he was eight he shows zero interest in them now.

He prefers to game on his PS4 or Switch, the latter rarely being taken out and used as a home console than a mobile.

One reason is he sees no reason to buy a high end gaming PC, but he's not interested in MMOs like ESO even though he enjoyed Skyrim.

I think like many of us, he's just tired of standard MMO gameplay, and his console single player and small multiplayer games offer a more enjoyable experience. 

A position I've come to appreciate....

Hariken

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

My son has almost no interest in MMORPG.  He played warframe and GTA online on his own and that is about it. He plays survival as well. Sports online and a few BR.

Yeah, I don't know anyone under 20 that's into MMO's... If they game it's not on PC but maybe a console. But definitely mobile or any hand held. 

FlyByKnight

So we all agree it's not the kids fault, and it's the fault of the out of touch developers who only figured out how to self-mutilate their own market for quick cash... right?

I mean, I used to play fighting games in the arcade when I was a kid now I'm playing the same 3-4 franchises getting my ass kicked by kids who are the same age as I was back then.

Boltonsquad

Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft at least that's my kids

kjempff

You can't project future wants like that. I (and my generation) played space invaders and super mario as a kid, but that didn't mean we play platformers and action games today. Video game industry covers a broad range of ages, and even if you say certain hardware will dictate the future of gaming, you would probably still be wrong..no one knows what comes, and everything can change over a short period of 5 years if you use history as an example.