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12 sales in 15 months, 0 maps in 6 months, LOL

24

Comments

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Legend has it, if you accidentally desecrate the burial ground of games that have bad development cycles LOLBOT will appear before you. Tread carefully. The LOL button is it's only doorway into this world.


    Spot on.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,505
    Gdemami said:
    A dateless roadmap is the easiest solution for them at this point.
    ...doubt it.

    You will just get people ranting/trolling how long x feature takes to make or how long since last feature was finished, how progress is slow etc. etc.


    You can't stop human beings from being self entitled idiots....
    Is it really unreasonable for people to expect the product they purchased and  were promised in a reasonable timeframe?

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Kyleran said:
    Gdemami said:
    A dateless roadmap is the easiest solution for them at this point.
    ...doubt it.

    You will just get people ranting/trolling how long x feature takes to make or how long since last feature was finished, how progress is slow etc. etc.


    You can't stop human beings from being self entitled idiots....
    Is it really unreasonable for people to expect the product they purchased and  were promised in a reasonable timeframe?
    Not unreasonable, but it sure seems unrealistic when talking about crowdfunded mmorpgs.
    Slapshot1188
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • WBadgerWBadger Member RarePosts: 375
    See, I don't blame them for missing dates.  Every developer misses dates.  Especially developers that are left to their own devices with no publisher to hold them to their words.

    However if they didn't throw an unrealistic release date to begin with while trying to pose as the "company that will show that it doesn't take x amount of years to finish an amazing game," then we wouldn't be here lambasting them at every turn.  Be humble and understand that when you're first pitching your game, you're going to need hella time, hella money, and hella talent.  Which in this case they gave themselves no time, a shoestring budget (hence why they are now clamoring for sales whenever possible,) and frankly not the best amount of talent considering he throws them under the bus at every turn and they take it at every turn.  He's not coding jesus, so he should stop acting like he is.
    Gdemami
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited May 2019
    Kyleran said:
    Is it really unreasonable for people to expect the product they purchased and  were promised in a reasonable timeframe?
    Apparently, it is unreasonable to expect reasonable expectations.

    1) they didn't purchase a product, they pledged money towards a project that may or may not get finished

    2) who decides what is reasonable timeframe? you?

    All this is well known to you, yet you are acting as if SBS owes you something.

    Like I said, self entitlement.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
    [Deleted User]BaalzharonMrMelGibson
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    WBadger said:
    He's not coding jesus, so he should stop acting like he is.
    ...neither you are.
    [Deleted User]BaalzharonMrMelGibson
  • WBadgerWBadger Member RarePosts: 375
    Gdemami said:
    WBadger said:
    He's not coding jesus, so he should stop acting like he is.
    ...neither are you. (If you're going to do snarky one liners, I fixed it for you as well.)
    Wasn't aware I was claiming to be.  Last I checked I didn't claim that I could push out a full scale complex/innovative MMO in a short period of time with a fairly limited budget and complex technologies.    Likewise I didn't claim that I was doing something like that and then citing that delays for any news or updates is the fault of my staff and attempting to absolve myself of blame.   But sure, you do you and pick out the one tiny irrelevant line that describes what I think of his grandstanding and try to turn it around like I'm putting myself up on a pedestal.  Flawless argument as usual.
    GdemamiSlapshot1188
  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 295
    Gdemami said:
    Apparently, it is unreasonable to expect reasonable expectations.


    The community isn't even expecting much of anything at this rate. Seeing as you seem to be a fan, you should know that. How fast this board feels like the game should be moving and how fast in general the CoE community feels. Two very different things. 

    Besides a few people, most aren't overall caring about the dates, which are closer to guesses by SBS. The only time people have got annoyed, is when hard dates are thrown out. At that point, yeah it's perfectly fine to be annoyed that SBS is missing them.
    Gdemami
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited May 2019
    Gdemami said:
    Kyleran said:
    Is it really unreasonable for people to expect the product they purchased and  were promised in a reasonable timeframe?
    Apparently, it is unreasonable to expect reasonable expectations.

    1) they didn't purchase a product, they pledged money towards a project that may or may not get finished

    2) who decides what is reasonable timeframe? you?

    All this is well known to you, yet you are acting as if SBS owes you something.

    Like I said, self entitlement.
    Lol, the devs are the ones deciding the timeframes (the fact that you even ask the question shows how willfully ignorant you act to try and make yourself feel superior), the fact that their time frames are unreasonable is a fallacious appeal to authority to convince consumers to buy in.


    Congratulations, you just played yourself.
    [Deleted User]KyleranGdemamiSlapshot1188Baalzharon

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,505
    edited May 2019
    Gdemami said:
    Kyleran said:
    Is it really unreasonable for people to expect the product they purchased and  were promised in a reasonable timeframe?
    Apparently, it is unreasonable to expect reasonable expectations.

    1) they didn't purchase a product, they pledged money towards a project that may or may not get finished

    2) who decides what is reasonable timeframe? you?

    All this is well known to you, yet you are acting as if SBS owes you something.

    Like I said, self entitlement.
    SBS owes me nothing as I've never pledged knowing better after my CU experience.

    Now if they would like some of money going forward, then yes, I have certain expectations, after all, it is my money.

    Timeframe was decided during the Kickstarters of most indie titles.  If experienced devs can't make their own dates despite more than tripling the original guesstimate with no end in sight it isn't the customer who is appearing self entitled. 

    Do the devs really believe their new game is so amazing they have no accountability on how long it takes?

    Well, I suppose if people keep sending them free money even after their true colors have been revealed perhaps they aren't wrong.




    GdemamiMendelBaalzharonanemo

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    WBadger said:
    Flawless argument as usual.
    Easy, you don't set bar too high....
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,985
    Today will not be the Map Day either.

    Maybe sometime next week.

    Maybe


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:14 AM

    I've written various tools to export heat maps of the continent that shows resource clustering, settlement clustering, the overall quality of the parcels, and more. We've been turning the knobs a lot to make sure everything is good, but even optimized and without factoring the water simulation in, it still takes about 30 minutes per iteration to generate all the settlements.
    @[NA-E] Scorus I don't believe so. The average right now is just below 5 per county.
    @Varuian Maulvorn ?|⍲| - D&SS won't be posted today, no.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 562
    Today will not be the Map Day either.

    Maybe sometime next week.

    Maybe


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:14 AM

    I've written various tools to export heat maps of the continent that shows resource clustering, settlement clustering, the overall quality of the parcels, and more. We've been turning the knobs a lot to make sure everything is good, but even optimized and without factoring the water simulation in, it still takes about 30 minutes per iteration to generate all the settlements.
    @[NA-E] Scorus I don't believe so. The average right now is just below 5 per county.
    @Varuian Maulvorn ?|⍲| - D&SS won't be posted today, no.
    No surprise 
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,019
    Turning the knobs? Oh shit, I think they gave him an Etch-a-Sketch!

    Gut ouT!
    AnOldFart[Deleted User]

    What, me worry?

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,985
    AnOldFart said:
    Today will not be the Map Day either.

    Maybe sometime next week.

    Maybe


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:14 AM

    I've written various tools to export heat maps of the continent that shows resource clustering, settlement clustering, the overall quality of the parcels, and more. We've been turning the knobs a lot to make sure everything is good, but even optimized and without factoring the water simulation in, it still takes about 30 minutes per iteration to generate all the settlements.
    @[NA-E] Scorus I don't believe so. The average right now is just below 5 per county.
    @Varuian Maulvorn ?|⍲| - D&SS won't be posted today, no.
    No surprise 
    I like how he tries to turn this around on the community (emphasis mine):


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:35 AM

    @Duke Nimb Zephyr Ⓥ?☀♠ But the community said, "Take as long as you need! What's important to us is quality, and a fixed release date." So another important question is: if we remove the release date, take the time we need to develop at high quality, and make sure there's a fixed release date with no additional public delays, and the community slams us for it taking too long, can we continue to trust the community?
    AnOldFartGdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    What a joke game development has become,more drama than the 80's soap opera's.
    What store is selling what,crowd funding,exclusives,cash shops,loot boxes,buggy unfinished games...HOWEVER !!! 
    EVERY single game that gets an article on THIS site gets high fives,props 8.5/10..go figure,makes you wonder about INTEGRITY...HONESTY.

    Gaming right now is NOT good,honesty is NOT there however one thing for certain,boat loads of gullible not so bright people tossing tons of money at these developers.

    Got world,have gun,npc's to shoot,ok let's buy it,rinse repeat,150 identical shooters and everyone claims to be DIFFERENT...UNIQUE and of course THIS site backs up all these claims...again makes you wonder.

    Over the past 40 years of gaming,how often have politicians got involved...NEVER?All of a sudden more and more is happening that needs to be looked at ,scrutinized even down to the lowest denominator of swatting because someone doesn't like another gamer,but oh no there is no problem at all,everything is great.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 562
    AnOldFart said:
    Today will not be the Map Day either.

    Maybe sometime next week.

    Maybe


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:14 AM

    I've written various tools to export heat maps of the continent that shows resource clustering, settlement clustering, the overall quality of the parcels, and more. We've been turning the knobs a lot to make sure everything is good, but even optimized and without factoring the water simulation in, it still takes about 30 minutes per iteration to generate all the settlements.
    @[NA-E] Scorus I don't believe so. The average right now is just below 5 per county.
    @Varuian Maulvorn ?|⍲| - D&SS won't be posted today, no.
    No surprise 
    I like how he tries to turn this around on the community (emphasis mine):


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:35 AM

    @Duke Nimb Zephyr Ⓥ?☀♠ But the community said, "Take as long as you need! What's important to us is quality, and a fixed release date." So another important question is: if we remove the release date, take the time we need to develop at high quality, and make sure there's a fixed release date with no additional public delays, and the community slams us for it taking too long, can we continue to trust the community?
    That wtf is to his reply. 

    Why couldn't he just say, the community supported us in not rushing so we are taking our time and leave it at tha
    MendelGdemami
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Some of the legends of gaming are scoffed at,ignored and  basically DONE,>>Lord British ,Smedley,several Blizzard execs getting out,changes even within the giant Blizz/Acti because things are not good and the proof is in closures,selloffs,Trion,Soe,changes at BlizActi,there is a lot of in your face obvious changes in this industry,you would have to be living under a rock to not see them.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,985
    AnOldFart said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Today will not be the Map Day either.

    Maybe sometime next week.

    Maybe


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:14 AM

    I've written various tools to export heat maps of the continent that shows resource clustering, settlement clustering, the overall quality of the parcels, and more. We've been turning the knobs a lot to make sure everything is good, but even optimized and without factoring the water simulation in, it still takes about 30 minutes per iteration to generate all the settlements.
    @[NA-E] Scorus I don't believe so. The average right now is just below 5 per county.
    @Varuian Maulvorn ?|⍲| - D&SS won't be posted today, no.
    No surprise 
    I like how he tries to turn this around on the community (emphasis mine):


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:35 AM

    @Duke Nimb Zephyr Ⓥ?☀♠ But the community said, "Take as long as you need! What's important to us is quality, and a fixed release date." So another important question is: if we remove the release date, take the time we need to develop at high quality, and make sure there's a fixed release date with no additional public delays, and the community slams us for it taking too long, can we continue to trust the community?
    That wtf is to his reply. 

    Why couldn't he just say, the community supported us in not rushing so we are taking our time and leave it at tha
    I think his biggest mistake is in using a tiny subsection of the community (I guess less than 1%) as "The Community".  I mean, I would agree with him that if someone tells me to do A and I do A and that same person complains well.. WTF. 

    But if 100 people out of 20,000 tell me to do A and someone from the 19,900 other people complain... well that's on him.  "The Community" is not some monolithic group and a random group of people who happened to be in Discord when he stopped by do not necessarily speak for everyone.  He needs to understand that other people have different frustrations and certainly have a right to voice those.

    Gdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,985
    Wizardry said:
    Some of the legends of gaming are scoffed at,ignored and  basically DONE,>>Lord British ,Smedley,several Blizzard execs getting out,changes even within the giant Blizz/Acti because things are not good and the proof is in closures,selloffs,Trion,Soe,changes at BlizActi,there is a lot of in your face obvious changes in this industry,you would have to be living under a rock to not see them.
    Do not take this the wrong way, but I often wonder if we are discussing the same topic...

    AmathebcbullyStaalBurgherMrMelGibson

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 562
    AnOldFart said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Today will not be the Map Day either.

    Maybe sometime next week.

    Maybe


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:14 AM

    I've written various tools to export heat maps of the continent that shows resource clustering, settlement clustering, the overall quality of the parcels, and more. We've been turning the knobs a lot to make sure everything is good, but even optimized and without factoring the water simulation in, it still takes about 30 minutes per iteration to generate all the settlements.
    @[NA-E] Scorus I don't believe so. The average right now is just below 5 per county.
    @Varuian Maulvorn ?|⍲| - D&SS won't be posted today, no.
    No surprise 
    I like how he tries to turn this around on the community (emphasis mine):


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:35 AM

    @Duke Nimb Zephyr Ⓥ?☀♠ But the community said, "Take as long as you need! What's important to us is quality, and a fixed release date." So another important question is: if we remove the release date, take the time we need to develop at high quality, and make sure there's a fixed release date with no additional public delays, and the community slams us for it taking too long, can we continue to trust the community?
    That wtf is to his reply. 

    Why couldn't he just say, the community supported us in not rushing so we are taking our time and leave it at tha
    I think his biggest mistake is in using a tiny subsection of the community (I guess less than 1%) as "The Community".  I mean, I would agree with him that if someone tells me to do A and I do A and that same person complains well.. WTF. 

    But if 100 people out of 20,000 tell me to do A and someone from the 19,900 other people complain... well that's on him.  "The Community" is not some monolithic group and a random group of people who happened to be in Discord when he stopped by do not necessarily speak for everyone.  He needs to understand that other people have different frustrations and certainly have a right to voice those.

    True but I know that all 4.5 EU kingdoms were in favour of this. 
    I would imagine it would be the same in the US communities with the comments made. 

    But it's hars to judge. Let's me honest if that person was in discord with Caspian he is probably in the group that called for it and now it's happening is bitching because he wants his shiny dummy now. 
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    AnOldFart said:
    Today will not be the Map Day either.

    Maybe sometime next week.

    Maybe


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:14 AM

    I've written various tools to export heat maps of the continent that shows resource clustering, settlement clustering, the overall quality of the parcels, and more. We've been turning the knobs a lot to make sure everything is good, but even optimized and without factoring the water simulation in, it still takes about 30 minutes per iteration to generate all the settlements.
    @[NA-E] Scorus I don't believe so. The average right now is just below 5 per county.
    @Varuian Maulvorn ?|⍲| - D&SS won't be posted today, no.
    No surprise 
    I like how he tries to turn this around on the community (emphasis mine):


    Caspian ☁Today at 11:35 AM

    @Duke Nimb Zephyr Ⓥ?☀♠ But the community said, "Take as long as you need! What's important to us is quality, and a fixed release date." So another important question is: if we remove the release date, take the time we need to develop at high quality, and make sure there's a fixed release date with no additional public delays, and the community slams us for it taking too long, can we continue to trust the community?
    If he wants to trust the community, trust the community.  Make a promise, keep a promise.  Delivery dates are promises.

    If he really distrusts the community, don't accept checks.



    Slapshot1188Gdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited May 2019
    Kyleran said:
    SBS owes me nothing as I've never pledged knowing better after my CU experience.

    Timeframe was decided during the Kickstarters of most indie titles.

    1) you don't need to spent any money on the game to act as if they owe you something

    Nice you are admittng your self entitlement and reinforcing my point tho.

    2) whether devs decide the deadlines or miss them is irrelevant - it does not make the deadlines reasonable nor unreasonable

    /yawn



    Post edited by Gdemami on
    KyleranAnOldFartMrMelGibson
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Should just stick to the LOLs because when you type...



    Slapshot1188Kyleranmklinic[Deleted User]

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,985
    Unbelievably tone deaf:

    Caspian ☁Today at 4:55 PM

    I'm not going to speak on behalf of the studio or the other developers. I can only speak for myself here. But beginning in the days of IRC, I wanted a place where I could come and socialize with the community and talk about what I was working on. I'd share snippets of things, sometimes buggy, etc. but my time in IRC was sort of "me time." It was a way for me to remember who I was doing it for - you guys. Because games this large take time, energy, blood, sweat, and tears. It's a lot harder than people realize. But as of late, any time I come into Discord I'm inundated with people making snide remarks about a missed deadline we can't do anything about. I get PMs from people who somehow had messaged me before I blocked PM's fronm non-friends to tell me to hang myself, or that I'm the worst CEO in history... And the truth is, I just don't find coming here enjoyable much anymore. I do it still, because it's part of my job. But the joy of being able to hang with the community is going fast. And to be clear, this isn't a complaint. I get it. People are mad at us... it's just unfortunate that the disappointment can't be compartmentalized enough to allow the developers to come here and share tidbits of information. We are, for better or worse, approaching a level of negativity where fewer and fewer developers want to come in here and chat. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just stating the facts. We're about to reach a point where the community is going to lose out on a valuable resource - one on one time with the developers because we lack the appetite to face the accusations and hostility.
    -------------

    He just doesn't get it at all.  He took over 6 million dollars from people.  He is using their money to pay himself and build a company that could theoretically someday be worth millions to him personally.  But everyone should feel sorry for him because "But the joy of being able to hang with the community is going fast.".  

    Simply unbelievable.  Instead of saying that he understands they have lost the trust of a large section of the community and are going to work even harder to be worthy of recovering it...  He goes on a "poor me" rant and subtly threatens that "the community is going to lose out on a valuable resource"


    Gotta love the part about "a missed deadline we can't do anything about"...   He's the damn CEOSuck it up and take responsibility. He is literally the ONLY person that can do something about missing every damn deadline.

    They are still... as of this moment... building the worlds.  The worlds where all the settlements were supposed to be chosen.  It's not a map problem.  It's a problem that they STILL don't exist!  This wasn't some unforeseen catastrophe like they had a fire.  He literally started Domain Selection 3 weeks ago without the worlds being built.  

    Just think about that for a few minutes and let that sink in.
     
    KyleranbcbullyGdemamiMrMelGibson

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

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