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We need a miracle to happen, it's been too long.

2

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  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,271
    Miracles are what people hope for when they are not willing to do the work.

    If people wanted a game made, they could band together and achieve that goal. However, they want someone else to do it for them, so they wait for a miracle (goal achieved without any effort).

    I know that people are not going to to like this comparison, but Star Citizen is a good example of people raising money to make a game that they want. Sadly this seems to be a game that (only?) Chris Roberts wants to make.... but hey, it shows that SOMEONE was able to pull people together to achieve their dream without having to rely on miracles.
    You're right.  People aren't going to like that comparison.

    Me, I think that Chris Roberts isn't making a game he wants to play.  He's making a game that he thinks will appeal to everyone.  His game that he wanted to play was Wing Commander.

    (Love your definition of miracles, btw.)



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • DarkestOverlordDarkestOverlord Member UncommonPosts: 545
    We need a miracle to happen, it's been too long. 

    Something happened several years ago where big business changed what mmorpgs are.  It was a revamp with no choice and no arguments. People were unaware when it happened.  No one expected it.  Many of us couldn't except it and refused to believe it happened.  After all it came without warning....... Even I struggle with the complete overhaul of what happened to our beloved massive multi player on line game.  Yet I consider myself a strong realest of good and bad in all things.  If something is bad I recognize it and except it quickly.  Yet I struggle with accepting what mmorpgs had become...... It must be deep love and disappointment.


    This post was inspired by DarkestOverlord. Like most of us he's struggling. Hoping he's missing that golden mmorpg that doesn't exist....... With 100% confidence I could say were all in the same shoes !!!....... None of us can give a real good answer. 

      

    I do admire the "EXTREME OPTIMISM" of most everyone here, it's a GREAT quality..... But it comes to the point "it is what it is".  Even the poster with a game to play would drop it if a real mmorpg were to come along. 

    BUT we would need several choices and several variations for different taste.   As of now we have zero of anything, only what will put up with.


    Better day's ahead, I feel it..... A flower dies, only for a new one to take it's place.... A heavy market can be had waiting for someone to fill it :)  

    A post inspired by me..woah !
    What a honor mate Cheers

    delete5230




  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 926
    I must admit I find these types of threads difficult to understand.  I've played SWG and WoW when in beta and when they launched and a few more of the popular original MMO's.  They were good in some ways but also bad in some ways just like today's MMO's.  WoW and SWG forums had all kinds of drama going on in them and complaints about game play, balance issues, gold sellers, bots, grouping, pvp, pve,  and other players just like today.  I really don't think all that much has changed.  

    People complained about games back then pretty much like they complain about them now.  The issues they complained about back then other players didn't have a problem with and even liked just like today.

    SWG's forums were archived the last time I checked and would be pretty easy to talk about the complaints from back then about the game pre and post cu.

    I can understand complaining about things in a game that aren't compatible with your playstyle but implying mmo's were in a golden age back then is something different.

    I also played both in beta (or tried SWG beta a little since I didn't like it).  I never complained on either's forums about anything.

    For a lot of people who loved SWG it stopped being SWG after the new player experience or whatever that overhaul was called.  I'm in the super minority of people who actually liked it more after that patch.  But, since I realized I am not an emperor and the world doesn't revolve around me I never went the forum and told everyone they are wrong for being angry their game was changed from one they wanted to play into one I wanted to play.

    The opposite happened to me in WoW during cataclysm when they gutted absolutely everything that made WoW WoW to me.  

      

    The question isn't if the game's forum will be filled with awful, whiney people - that's a given.  The sentiment is we want an mmorpg that will interest us to be made and we will all assume it will definitely have forums filled with awful whiney people demanding it be morphed into something else.





  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,007
    edited May 12
    My original MUD was a special experience but it took an mmorpg to recreate parts of the experience I had in my original MUD. In a similar fashion it will take something far more advanced to recreate my mmorpg experience.

    The other part of the problem is that I spent lots of hours per week playing both MUD and mmorpg, with sense of community being such a large part of my experience I really can't commit the same time on it.

    The moment I get retired I will have lots and lots of time playing something in the same vein of mmorpg and its a rather long time til that happens. By that time I seriously hope the gameplay has advanced because I would rather stare at a wall in a retirement home than spend more time playing just another leveling simulator.
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,802
    Who wants to bet the relaunch of Classic will be that miracle again?
    blamo2000DarkestOverlordGdemami
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,205
    edited May 12
    We need a miracle to happen, it's been too long. 

    Something happened several years ago where big business changed what mmorpgs are.  It was a revamp with no choice and no arguments. People were unaware when it happened.  No one expected it.  Many of us couldn't except it and refused to believe it happened.  After all it came without warning....... Even I struggle with the complete overhaul of what happened to our beloved massive multi player on line game.  Yet I consider myself a strong realest of good and bad in all things.  If something is bad I recognize it and except it quickly.  Yet I struggle with accepting what mmorpgs had become...... It must be deep love and disappointment.


    This post was inspired by DarkestOverlord. Like most of us he's struggling. Hoping he's missing that golden mmorpg that doesn't exist....... With 100% confidence I could say were all in the same shoes !!!....... None of us can give a real good answer. 

      

    I do admire the "EXTREME OPTIMISM" of most everyone here, it's a GREAT quality..... But it comes to the point "it is what it is".  Even the poster with a game to play would drop it if a real mmorpg were to come along. 

    BUT we would need several choices and several variations for different taste.   As of now we have zero of anything, only what will put up with.


    Better day's ahead, I feel it..... A flower dies, only for a new one to take it's place.... A heavy market can be had waiting for someone to fill it :)  
    I can tell you what happened, its name is WoW. Now most games are solo focused. And that makes them bad MMOs. And as you see by most projects, after a decade of attempts to copy the WoW success the developers have no idea how to make a multiplayer MMO. As most games are based on other games, with some original feature involved. The developers now just do not have the base. Take Albion - pretty good economic system, many multiplayer features. But it is based on EVE, while it needs to copy Lineage 2 before GoD. There are good games, but made more a decade ago. WoW killed the core of the genre - the attempt to create an immersive open world.
    Gdemami
  • garretthgarretth Member UncommonPosts: 343
    It's time to bring back all the oldies-but-goodies.  It's time.
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 512
    It's all in the Meueller report... all those redacted lines... proof that the Russians conspired with Trump to use MMORPGs to fund the border wall.  
    Margravedelete5230
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,837
    blamo2000 said:
    I must admit I find these types of threads difficult to understand.  I've played SWG and WoW when in beta and when they launched and a few more of the popular original MMO's.  They were good in some ways but also bad in some ways just like today's MMO's.  WoW and SWG forums had all kinds of drama going on in them and complaints about game play, balance issues, gold sellers, bots, grouping, pvp, pve,  and other players just like today.  I really don't think all that much has changed.  

    People complained about games back then pretty much like they complain about them now.  The issues they complained about back then other players didn't have a problem with and even liked just like today.

    SWG's forums were archived the last time I checked and would be pretty easy to talk about the complaints from back then about the game pre and post cu.

    I can understand complaining about things in a game that aren't compatible with your playstyle but implying mmo's were in a golden age back then is something different.

    I also played both in beta (or tried SWG beta a little since I didn't like it).  I never complained on either's forums about anything.

    For a lot of people who loved SWG it stopped being SWG after the new player experience or whatever that overhaul was called.  I'm in the super minority of people who actually liked it more after that patch.  But, since I realized I am not an emperor and the world doesn't revolve around me I never went the forum and told everyone they are wrong for being angry their game was changed from one they wanted to play into one I wanted to play.

    The opposite happened to me in WoW during cataclysm when they gutted absolutely everything that made WoW WoW to me.  

      

    The question isn't if the game's forum will be filled with awful, whiney people - that's a given.  The sentiment is we want an mmorpg that will interest us to be made and we will all assume it will definitely have forums filled with awful whiney people demanding it be morphed into something else.





    I played SWG off and on until the day the server closed.  Still login to SWG Legends from time to time for play sessions.  Which is how I get my fix for the old days.

    I do think the forums illustrated what was happening in the game itself at the time.  Back then and to this day if there's a problem with gameplay, I'll go to the forums and express my thoughts. 

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,746
    edited May 12
    We're going down a path where games will become more and more MMORPG like.   It's all based on publishers "needing" to be more Games As A Service-y, and competing with every other publisher being more GAAS focused.   And frankly the most MMO like games as a service will be the one that has the most apparent value to players in whatever genre it's playing as  (read as having the most unlimited play loop, and most access to your friends/ability to make friends).

    • We need some sort of cycle to keep players going.   Leveling mechanics are now in pretty much all games now.
    • Players go through content too fast for that to be the retention mechanic.  Solution need Player Interaction mechanics.
    • PvP alone is not enough to keep people in the game.   Need to have more social mechanics.
    • Cosmetics are for the most part only thing players will tolerate in the most monetize-able thing (loot boxes).   We need to get players in front of other players more often to increase the apparent value of cosmetics.


    Funny part is you can see Anthem struggling through all of those stages laughably enough.   Leveling is obvious enough, raids are in for player interaction, guilds are a high priority update, and they shoddily put together a multiplayer social hub before launch for the last one.


    Gdemami

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,771
    Most of you don’t see it, but Mordhau might is the type of miracle mmoRPGS need. It will bring younger players into the genre. 

    The genre wont be what you remember, but it will be alive. It will be your choice if you choose to adapt and grow, or get left behind.
    Viper482
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,707
    bcbully said:
    Most of you don’t see it, but Mordhau might is the type of miracle mmoRPGS need. It will bring younger players into the genre. 

    The genre wont be what you remember, but it will be alive. It will be your choice if you choose to adapt and grow, or get left behind.

    MMORPG? How is Mordhau in any way an MMO or an RPG, forget being both. Looks like a great game, but not relevant to this conversation.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,628
    Good post Delete. I was able to finish it and understand your point.

    What you wish is a feeling that comes with novelty, wonder, and excitement, first mmos were like going to disney world as a kid or when you first drove on your own when you got a license. 

    You are not going to get that back.
    DMKanoOctagon7711Mendel
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,771
    edited May 12
    Viper482 said:
    bcbully said:
    Most of you don’t see it, but Mordhau might is the type of miracle mmoRPGS need. It will bring younger players into the genre. 

    The genre wont be what you remember, but it will be alive. It will be your choice if you choose to adapt and grow, or get left behind.

    MMORPG? How is Mordhau in any way an MMO or an RPG, forget being both. Looks like a great game, but not relevant to this conversation.
    I didn’t say it was. I think you miss understood. The MMO part can be debated as you know but I won’t. 

    I see it as a gateway game. The combat, the charter building. Those are the type of RPG lite elements that can peak the interest of this younger generation of gamers and lead them to true mmorpgs.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,687
    H0urg1ass said:

    But after half a decade or maybe a whole ten years, they will come back because people really do want to have huge worlds to explore, build and quest in.
    ...because you say so?
    alkarionlog
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,033
    Star Citizen isn't that game? If people just hand them 300 million dollars it must have something going for it.
  • Tindale111Tindale111 Member UncommonPosts: 272
    I must admit I find these types of threads difficult to understand.  I've played SWG and WoW when in beta and when they launched and a few more of the popular original MMO's.  They were good in some ways but also bad in some ways just like today's MMO's.  WoW and SWG forums had all kinds of drama going on in them and complaints about game play, balance issues, gold sellers, bots, grouping, pvp, pve,  and other players just like today.  I really don't think all that much has changed.  

    People complained about games back then pretty much like they complain about them now.  The issues they complained about back then other players didn't have a problem with and even liked just like today.

    SWG's forums were archived the last time I checked and would be pretty easy to talk about the complaints from back then about the game pre and post cu.

    I can understand complaining about things in a game that aren't compatible with your playstyle but implying mmo's were in a golden age back then is something different.

    the difference is todays mmos are all dumbed down can be finished inside 3 months ,and so many of them have cash shops .yes there were problems with the older mmos but the addictiveness was their ,if you released the likes of swg and eq1/2 today im not sure if todays players would like them at all but the interest in Pantheon gives me hope and maybe im wrong 
    Octagon7711
  • DarkestOverlordDarkestOverlord Member UncommonPosts: 545
    Pumping this post up :)




  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,968
    edited May 13
    At lease older MMORPG was MMORPG and not singleplayer RPG in disguise

    Gdemami
  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,077
    We need a miracle to happen, it's been too long. 

    -----------

    Better day's ahead, I feel it..... A flower dies, only for a new one to take it's place.... A heavy market can be had waiting for someone to fill it :)  
    No, i think it's about to get wrapped up and tossed in the bin. haven't seen anything live more than a few months and take off into a permanent game for some years. 

    image

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,147
    Good post Delete. I was able to finish it and understand your point.

    What you wish is a feeling that comes with novelty, wonder, and excitement, first mmos were like going to disney world as a kid or when you first drove on your own when you got a license. 

    You are not going to get that back.

    Without brain washing/ erasing memories type of technology and also time travel to replicate the playerbase from 20 years ago....yep never gonna get that back.

    But many players still wish for the impossible /shrug
  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,746
    Oh I got the Gdemami special.   Must be something right about the post :D

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,837
    Good post Delete. I was able to finish it and understand your point.

    What you wish is a feeling that comes with novelty, wonder, and excitement, first mmos were like going to disney world as a kid or when you first drove on your own when you got a license. 

    You are not going to get that back.
    Yeah, I can still remember the first time my character first landed in SWG.  It was wonderful.  I couldn't understand anything in most of the chat bobbles because you had to learn the languages of all the different species.  You could buy them from a trainer but you had no money.  Another player saw I was brand new and taught all the languages to me right of the bat., just as someone had taught him.  

    People for the most part were eager to help.  Even a week before the game shut down players were running around giving away their most valuable stuff to strangers so they got a chance to try them out being unable to obtain them.  Good times...

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • FearumFearum Member UncommonPosts: 1,175
    Since 2012 when the F2P and cash shop games were first gaining ground, it showed how the future of games were pretty much heading to a dead end where we are at now. We as real gamers lost... F2P and cash shop, now loot box games won and now we are here with nothing but crap. I got a few bans here for battling pro F2P backers here on this forum back then about how it was going to change and ruin the game market as we know it. It was obvious and now we get to reap what the majority has sown in this new age of how much can we make from milking our players instead of how much can we engage our audience in this game.
    delete5230
  • WarWitchWarWitch Member UncommonPosts: 261
    Dune is coming.

    SWG was the best ever till they ruined it and ignored our 500k signed petition.


    GW2 wvw if fun but after rank 2k or so there is nothing to gain.
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