Ducal picks delayed by one week

Slapshot1188

Caspien popped into Discord to explain how hard making the worlds turned out to be and how the delay is not his fault and he can only go by what his team tells him (as always feel free to go read the Discord for full context and bold emphasis is mine):

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 9:33 PM

@Logan Morgen-Lyutsifer A lot of people have feedback on deadlines, announcing deadlines, announcing when stuff is going to be complete, etc. We hear you. I'd love to comment further, but I can't.
@Count Zimmah IX I hope some day you have an opportunity to lead a few dozen people. When you do, you'll realize that your choices are either a) do everything yourself, micromanage your team, and never sleep or b) give your team the resources they need to get the job done and then trust them to do the work they've been assigned. But regardless, I can only report what my team tells me. Day after day I meet with the team, we track progress, we measure our velocity, and we adjust our plans accordingly. When they run into a blocker that costs them half a day to figure out - all previous estimates become somewhat invalidated, and the team accommodates.
--------------------------

Such a weak manager...
and note that the world generation is not even DONE yet:
------------------------

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 9:53 PM

@I.D. And now you've stumbled on the crux of the problem I've been dealing with today. We've been using in-game resources as a way to manage the number of people that can live in a single area. But even with very strict application of resources, increasing the cost to craft things, etc... it's likely going to be hardware that determines how many people can live in a settlement, not the biome itself. Now... how do you decide where settlements can exist, if they can literally exist anywhere due to the fact that it's the hardware that's the limiting factor and not the environment? And thus, we've been trying to solve this problem. We need to get it back to a point where the environment and sustainability mechanics are what ultimately limit the number of people that can live in an area, because only then can we identify where the settlements would be placed.
------------------------
No wonder the "nobles" have been in revolt.  This dolt didn't even finish the job of creating the worlds but because he didn't want to be late yet again he thought he could sweet talk them into making selections anyhow.  What a joke.

Scot

You need to understand the relationship between resources, infrastructure and the environment before you reach this stage. Also he does not seem to grasp a simple gaming principle. The game comes before principles like free choice, if deciding where settlements are based it too complex, CoE should place them themselves.

Once again a by hand method not only makes for a better feel to the map but also makes sure every settlement gets the resources it needs and so on. They seem to keep wanting to create software tools for every issue that faces them.

Kyleran

Maybe I am getting soft in my old age, but I am a bit more understanding of the Discord comments you've shared Slap.

My views on them.

1) Logan-Morgen - Jeremy shows he can be taught, and wisely doesn't comment further on the delays.
2) Count Zimmah - I don't see his reply as an example of weak leadership, as PM I've often had to take the status updates at face value as given to me, and devs always filter the full truth from senior mgmt.
3) World generation - looks like they are just now understanding their plans to control player density via software driven environment & sustainability mechanics are insufficient to prevent hardware overload / failure, probably both on the client and server sides.

So far it appears he's asking the team to revisit the issue and further enhance the current design, but bigger, more experienced dev teams have struggled with this for years yet most have chosen to enact artificial limiters, split areas across multiple servers or go with instances to prevent overload.

CCP uses one server for multiple systems when they aren't very populated,  but a big trade hub or even a major fleet battle are spread across a small cluster to handle the influx, and still the solution so far has been imperfect.

I wish him luck,  doubtful something which can be quickly resolved 

I'd recommend he just go forward and let players pick where they will. When it's all done overloaded areas can be analyzed and appropriate solutions (could be more than one) developed and put in place as necessary.

bcbully

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

Kyleran

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

Yeah, I was hoping you would reply.  What is the benefit of this system,  to either the player or the game?

I mean, sure it might be fun for the captors to nab people while they are offline, but as a "nabee" I view it as a big annoyance which negatively impacts my game play / plans hence I don't want it.

A cornerstone of almost any game ever made is your player character and personal assets are totally, completely safe while logged out.

Sure, your house, lands, keeps, bases may be raised to the ground (though most games now employ timers and what not to limit the surprise factor) but players are given a means to protect some subset of their assets / effort. 

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

I can't think of a more terrible idea, well unless of course you are a wolf.

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

Maybe I am getting soft in my old age, but I am a bit more understanding of the Discord comments you've shared Slap.

My views on them.

1) Logan-Morgen - Jeremy shows he can be taught, and wisely doesn't comment further on the delays.
2) Count Zimmah - I don't see his reply as an example of weak leadership, as PM I've often had to take the status updates at face value as given to me, and devs always filter the full truth from senior mgmt.
3) World generation - looks like they are just now understanding their plans to control player density via software driven environment & sustainability mechanics are insufficient to prevent hardware overload / failure, probably both on the client and server sides.

It’s the wording @Kyleran

1. He said the same thing repeated before.  Sure maybe this time he really learned and maybe this time Lucy won’t pull the football away from poor Charlie Brown. My guess is that Vye begged him to STFU and let her post the delay. We will see if it lasts through the next delay.

2. Weak leadership is not taking ownership.  You don’t blame shit on your team when you are the leader.  He starts out by casting shade with the whole comment that maybe someday the supporter will “lead a few dozen people” (which just a week or so ago he said was 19.  Wow... he’s so special. Then he separates himself from the team, instead of using WE it’s basically I can’t do everything  and those guys failed.     Maybe it’s true but that’s not a leader. At all. 

#3 I agree.  Wait until we get to the gameplay stuff.  This is just the warm up exercise.

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

Yeah, I was hoping you would reply.  What is the benefit of this system,  to either the player or the game?

I mean, sure it might be fun for the captors to nab people while they are offline, but as a "nabee" I view it as a big annoyance which negatively impacts my game play / plans hence I don't want it.

A cornerstone of almost any game ever made is your player character and personal assets are totally, completely safe while logged out.

Sure, your house, lands, keeps, bases may be raised to the ground (though most games now employ timers and what not to limit the surprise factor) but players are given a means to protect some subset of their assets / effort. 

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

I can't think of a more terrible idea, well unless of course you are a wolf.

I agree it’s a terrible idea but he has used this as a cornerstone of his anti-griefing plan.  His theory is that bad guys can’t logout and thus will be hunted down.  The flip side is that while the town was sleeping Seamus McCrotchface came and pillaged them all then burned his loot just for kicks and giggles. I’m sure those people that got 10 free accounts from the Links of Elyria event all have good intentions.   Right?

bcbully

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

Yeah, I was hoping you would reply.  What is the benefit of this system,  to either the player or the game?

I mean, sure it might be fun for the captors to nab people while they are offline, but as a "nabee" I view it as a big annoyance which negatively impacts my game play / plans hence I don't want it.

A cornerstone of almost any game ever made is your player character and personal assets are totally, completely safe while logged out.

Sure, your house, lands, keeps, bases may be raised to the ground (though most games now employ timers and what not to limit the surprise factor) but players are given a means to protect some subset of their assets / effort. 

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

I can't think of a more terrible idea, well unless of course you are a wolf.

To be honest, kidnapping off line players was just something to do... you didn’t make hardly any silver, and the person kidnapped didn’t really lose anything. You’d login sometimes and see a lil extra silver. Enough to buy some bread lol. 

I think the biggest impact it had was the world stayed populated with unique nps. It added a bit to the atmosphere. I have no idea what CoE is attempting to do, but in order for it to be complex it would have to be a lot more robust.

Kyleran

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

Yeah, I was hoping you would reply.  What is the benefit of this system,  to either the player or the game?

I mean, sure it might be fun for the captors to nab people while they are offline, but as a "nabee" I view it as a big annoyance which negatively impacts my game play / plans hence I don't want it.

A cornerstone of almost any game ever made is your player character and personal assets are totally, completely safe while logged out.

Sure, your house, lands, keeps, bases may be raised to the ground (though most games now employ timers and what not to limit the surprise factor) but players are given a means to protect some subset of their assets / effort. 

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

I can't think of a more terrible idea, well unless of course you are a wolf.

I agree it’s a terrible idea but he has used this as a cornerstone of his anti-griefing plan.  His theory is that bad guys can’t logout and thus will be hunted down.  The flip side is that while the town was sleeping Seamus McCrotchface came and pillaged them all then burned his loot just for kicks and giggles. I’m sure those people that got 10 free accounts from the Links of Elyria event all have good intentions.   Right?

Agreed, more than one game has seen players using disposable alts and accounts to create mayhem, while their peaceful, neutral accounts store all the loot 

Scot

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

Yeah, I was hoping you would reply.  What is the benefit of this system,  to either the player or the game?

I mean, sure it might be fun for the captors to nab people while they are offline, but as a "nabee" I view it as a big annoyance which negatively impacts my game play / plans hence I don't want it.

A cornerstone of almost any game ever made is your player character and personal assets are totally, completely safe while logged out.

Sure, your house, lands, keeps, bases may be raised to the ground (though most games now employ timers and what not to limit the surprise factor) but players are given a means to protect some subset of their assets / effort. 

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

I can't think of a more terrible idea, well unless of course you are a wolf.

I agree it’s a terrible idea but he has used this as a cornerstone of his anti-griefing plan.  His theory is that bad guys can’t logout and thus will be hunted down.  The flip side is that while the town was sleeping Seamus McCrotchface came and pillaged them all then burned his loot just for kicks and giggles. I’m sure those people that got 10 free accounts from the Links of Elyria event all have good intentions.   Right?

Do they have any idea of what gamers are like? An anti-griefing plan that will just lead to more griefing? There are many ways they could implement an anti-griefing plan, how about thinking about those which don't open the floodgates to even more griefing? CoE is turning into a sitcom about how you don't design a game. For the players I hope it pans out but every time I hear about their thinking I have less faith it will.

bcbully

Scot said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

Yeah, I was hoping you would reply.  What is the benefit of this system,  to either the player or the game?

I mean, sure it might be fun for the captors to nab people while they are offline, but as a "nabee" I view it as a big annoyance which negatively impacts my game play / plans hence I don't want it.

A cornerstone of almost any game ever made is your player character and personal assets are totally, completely safe while logged out.

Sure, your house, lands, keeps, bases may be raised to the ground (though most games now employ timers and what not to limit the surprise factor) but players are given a means to protect some subset of their assets / effort. 

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

I can't think of a more terrible idea, well unless of course you are a wolf.

I agree it’s a terrible idea but he has used this as a cornerstone of his anti-griefing plan.  His theory is that bad guys can’t logout and thus will be hunted down.  The flip side is that while the town was sleeping Seamus McCrotchface came and pillaged them all then burned his loot just for kicks and giggles. I’m sure those people that got 10 free accounts from the Links of Elyria event all have good intentions.   Right?

Do they have any idea of what gamers are like? An anti-griefing plan that will just lead to more griefing? There are many ways they could implement an anti-griefing plan, how about thinking about those which don't open the floodgates to even more griefing? CoE is turning into a sitcom about how you don't design a game. For the players I hope it pans out but every time I hear about their thinking I have less faith it will.

Different strokes for different folks man. It’s war man. I’m sure there will be plenty of you call griefing...

SpottyGekko

Slapshot1188 said:

Utter incompetence. Repeated.  Over and over again.

This isn't even the game folks.  Nobody has actually even played the game.  Even though it was promised over a year ago on these very forums. This is all just background stuff designed around the shop to get you to buy virtual jpegs of land or pay more money to move up in the picking order to be sure you get the jpeg land you have your heart set on.

You know what other game did that?  Revival.  You know who the lead designer was for that game?  The same guy for CoE.  You know what happened to Revival? https://massivelyop.com/2016/03/24/revivals-development-has-been-indefinitely-suspended/  Those quotes are from the CURRENT CoE Lead Designer made prior to joining CoE.

We haven't even scratched the levels of utter incompetence that will be shown in the actual game.  This is just the appetizer.  

Steady now, lol

Maxwell was also Lead Designer for Trion's Rift, so he does have some solid history somewhere...

Though I'm not quite sure how he's ended up at CoE, perhaps he somehow burned his bridges in the industry ?

Kyleran

Scot said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

Yeah, I was hoping you would reply.  What is the benefit of this system,  to either the player or the game?

I mean, sure it might be fun for the captors to nab people while they are offline, but as a "nabee" I view it as a big annoyance which negatively impacts my game play / plans hence I don't want it.

A cornerstone of almost any game ever made is your player character and personal assets are totally, completely safe while logged out.

Sure, your house, lands, keeps, bases may be raised to the ground (though most games now employ timers and what not to limit the surprise factor) but players are given a means to protect some subset of their assets / effort. 

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

I can't think of a more terrible idea, well unless of course you are a wolf.

I agree it’s a terrible idea but he has used this as a cornerstone of his anti-griefing plan.  His theory is that bad guys can’t logout and thus will be hunted down.  The flip side is that while the town was sleeping Seamus McCrotchface came and pillaged them all then burned his loot just for kicks and giggles. I’m sure those people that got 10 free accounts from the Links of Elyria event all have good intentions.   Right?

Do they have any idea of what gamers are like? An anti-griefing plan that will just lead to more griefing? There are many ways they could implement an anti-griefing plan, how about thinking about those which don't open the floodgates to even more griefing? CoE is turning into a sitcom about how you don't design a game. For the players I hope it pans out but every time I hear about their thinking I have less faith it will.

"The Noob" comic series has some absolutely priceless strips about PKers and the failing attempts by both the player anti PK forces and moderators to stop their dark antics.

Spoiler alert, PKers have all the fun.

Slapshot1188

Sure he was... for like 10 months or something.

But the most relevant comp is to Revival.  The similarities abound.

Gdemami

Vrika said:

especially to informative posts.

...as informative as armchair developer can be.

/facepalm

Scot

Gdemami said:

Vrika said:

especially to informative posts.

...as informative as armchair developer can be.

/facepalm

I thought you had been replaced with a bot....he lives!

AnOldFart

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

Persistent online characters is nothing. Age of Wushu did it. When you went off line your toon turned to an npc, and would work around town. If an online play didn’t kidnap you, you’d have some silver when you logged back in. seemed like a really simple system.

edit- that’s what I get for not reading the entire post...

Yeah, I was hoping you would reply.  What is the benefit of this system,  to either the player or the game?

I mean, sure it might be fun for the captors to nab people while they are offline, but as a "nabee" I view it as a big annoyance which negatively impacts my game play / plans hence I don't want it.

A cornerstone of almost any game ever made is your player character and personal assets are totally, completely safe while logged out.

Sure, your house, lands, keeps, bases may be raised to the ground (though most games now employ timers and what not to limit the surprise factor) but players are given a means to protect some subset of their assets / effort. 

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

I can't think of a more terrible idea, well unless of course you are a wolf.

I agree it’s a terrible idea but he has used this as a cornerstone of his anti-griefing plan.  His theory is that bad guys can’t logout and thus will be hunted down.  The flip side is that while the town was sleeping Seamus McCrotchface came and pillaged them all then burned his loot just for kicks and giggles. I’m sure those people that got 10 free accounts from the Links of Elyria event all have good intentions.   Right?

Since there is npc town guards it's going to need more than 1 person to burn anything.

Also note that the idea is that the opc would wake up and defend themselves.


I'm not saying it will work but if your going to trash a mechanic make sure your using all of the mechanic not just bits you have chosen

Slapshot1188

AnOldFart said:

Since there is npc town guards it's going to need more than 1 person to burn anything.

Also note that the idea is that the opc would wake up and defend themselves.


I'm not saying it will work but if your going to trash a mechanic make sure your using all of the mechanic not just bits you have chosen

If you want to have a thread where we walk through all the issues with this mechanic I am sure you can find one buried on these forums. I think I stated enough of the mechanic for the purposes of this thread.

Besides, I am fairly certain we are never going to get anything close to what was promised regarding OPCs but time will tell.

DerryFH

Kyleran said:

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

If nothing has changed in the design ( I have stopped following closely CoE in 2017) the idea for OPC's death was that if you get killed, you will remain "paused" in an astral plane until you log in, removing the possibility of someone perma killing you while you are offline.

GeezerGamer

Slapshot1188 said:

AnOldFart said:

Since there is npc town guards it's going to need more than 1 person to burn anything.

Also note that the idea is that the opc would wake up and defend themselves.


I'm not saying it will work but if your going to trash a mechanic make sure your using all of the mechanic not just bits you have chosen

...stuff...

Besides, I am fairly certain we are never going to get anything.



(Fixed that for you)

Torrsk

DerryFH said:

Kyleran said:

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

If nothing has changed in the design ( I have stopped following closely CoE in 2017) the idea for OPC's death was that if you get killed, you will remain "paused" in an astral plane until you log in, removing the possibility of someone perma killing you while you are offline.

You will. I remember something about a timer. If someone didn't log on after a month, then they would lead to perma death. But really, any person that only plays once a week or once every few weeks. Wouldn't even bother with CoE in the first place.

Slapshot1188 said:

Caspian ☁Yesterday at 9:33 PM

b) give your team the resources they need to get the job done and then trust them to do the work they've been assigned. But regardless, I can only report what my team tells me. 

This makes me curious about a few things. Who is setting the deadlines. Is it Caspian or is it the team? If it's Caspian, well he just needs to flat out stop guessing for work he isn't even doing. If it's the team, well they could also stop, until it's all ready.

Of all his options. I thought B was how everyone did it. If you can't trust your team.. well you need a better team.

I do dislike anytime anyone throws out the "maybe when you lead a team of people". How the hell does anyone know, anyone else hasn't before? All this making assumptions about each other. 

Nilden

DerryFH said:

Kyleran said:

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

If nothing has changed in the design ( I have stopped following closely CoE in 2017) the idea for OPC's death was that if you get killed, you will remain "paused" in an astral plane until you log in, removing the possibility of someone perma killing you while you are offline.

I dunno logging into a dead character then having to buy souls with real money sounds like something I would avoid...

AnOldFart

Nilden said:

DerryFH said:

Kyleran said:

As I understand in COE, its possible a player could very well log off for a few weeks and come back to find their character perma dead, all of their assets except what is in their pockets looted and destroyed, with no safe storage anywhere in game.

If nothing has changed in the design ( I have stopped following closely CoE in 2017) the idea for OPC's death was that if you get killed, you will remain "paused" in an astral plane until you log in, removing the possibility of someone perma killing you while you are offline.

I dunno logging into a dead character then having to buy souls with real money sounds like something I would avoid...

I quite like the mechanic. 

The idea they have is that your soul is your character not the person your currently playing. Just like material possessions are transient.

It might not work but it's a nice spin on it, especially for someone like me who likes to try lots of different roles.

Slapshot1188 said:

AnOldFart said:

Since there is npc town guards it's going to need more than 1 person to burn anything.

Also note that the idea is that the opc would wake up and defend themselves.


I'm not saying it will work but if your going to trash a mechanic make sure your using all of the mechanic not just bits you have chosen

If you want to have a thread where we walk through all the issues with this mechanic I am sure you can find one buried on these forums. I think I stated enough of the mechanic for the purposes of this thread.

Besides, I am fairly certain we are never going to get anything close to what was promised regarding OPCs but time will tell.

And no you didn't, there is npc guards, if your going to discuss the flaws of having players remain in the world you also need to include that there will be npc guards who will defend them. 

And even if the opc mechanic only has the player remaining as a shop that calls guards and defends itself when attacked there will be mechanics to prevent wide scale griefing.

As I said this may not work but if your going to bring it up or comment on it you should use all the facts. 
(and I know you know them all) 

StaalBurgher

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

For me OPCs solve one of the major issues that sandbox games have compared to single player RPGs. These competitive sandboxes promote themselves as dependent on teamwork, a living world etc. Then you log in and the world is empty. For me it has always killed the atmosphere. So really the teamwork is just PvP, which is another weakness. There is no non-PvP end game or competitive state.

The goal to my mind should be to combine the best of the single-player experience with the multiplayer element. OPCs are a step in that direction. I have for a while now proposed the idea that player characters need to play the role of traditional NPC roles, all of them, and manage all the normal actions that would take place. I.e. no NPC vendors, blacksmiths, guards, magistrates whatsoever. If you need a role performed you hire a player character with the requisite skills to do it.

This necessitates multi characters obviously, which CoE is not doing. Or I don't think they are? There is no reason why a single player cannot be a noble and a peasant and experience different elements of game play at the same time. Which gets around the idiotic complaints about some players lording it over others. The characters themselves however need to be role specific though. You switch between characters as needed.

Kyleran

StaalBurgher said:

Kyleran said:

StaalBurgher said:

GeezerGamer said:

They don't have a game. They never will. This project ran into, not just major problem, but a show stopper with their whole dloud based engine fall through. They saw a cheap way to use it and then the vendor discontinued the SDK. That was the end of COE right then and there. Everything that happened after that, (In my opinion) is borderline criminal.

That has been my major concern. Persistent online characters is a major cornerstone of this game.

IMO one of the more ill thought out cornerstones which actually should be reconsidered.

All design features should have a solid purpose, benefitting both the player and the game world overall.

I've yet to see a convincing argument in support of it, only game I know of which did similar was Age of Wushu / Wulin and it seemed like a crap idea there as well.

For me OPCs solve one of the major issues that sandbox games have compared to single player RPGs. These competitive sandboxes promote themselves as dependent on teamwork, a living world etc. Then you log in and the world is empty. For me it has always killed the atmosphere. So really the teamwork is just PvP, which is another weakness. There is no non-PvP end game or competitive state.

The goal to my mind should be to combine the best of the single-player experience with the multiplayer element. OPCs are a step in that direction. I have for a while now proposed the idea that player characters need to play the role of traditional NPC roles, all of them, and manage all the normal actions that would take place. I.e. no NPC vendors, blacksmiths, guards, magistrates whatsoever. If you need a role performed you hire a player character with the requisite skills to do it.

This necessitates multi characters obviously, which CoE is not doing. Or I don't think they are? There is no reason why a single player cannot be a noble and a peasant and experience different elements of game play at the same time. Which gets around the idiotic complaints about some players lording it over others. The characters themselves however need to be role specific though. You switch between characters as needed.

I believe COE is counting on players having to buy souls for more than one account in order to play multiple roles, part of their financial strategy.

As I recall Asherons Call 2 went the "no npc" route at launch, also relying on players to fulfill all rolls, and it was considered one of the reasons the game failed and quickly closed down.

The problem I think is you won't find enough players willing to play the more mundane roles, heck few are willing to be guards who might see action,  much less a magistrate.

Player interdependence is an important part of a virtual world, but it is a fine line and not so easy to walk.

Let's take crafting chain armor. I recall in DAoC being annoyed that some items required me to either obtain components from a cloth armor crafter or level up an alt which could do so.

Sure it encouraged interaction,  but me and many others took the alt account route which being a sub only game was good from a company point of view.

Now some games I've read about require the cooperation of perhaps 5 or 6 players to create one item, COE appears to be following down this road.  I loath that sort of dependency, so crafting will never be my forte, 

I am an explorer, an adventuer, a gatherer, but most of all, a murder hobo.

I like nothing more than logging in to a game, wandering the world, and killing most any PVE npc (boars, bears, bunnies, bugs, bad guys, basilisks, etc) I come across. 

I expect to thrive and prosper on just these activities, or selling the materials or "loot" I get while doing them.

I don't care what I look like, (hence the hobo) gear only matters in the utility it imparts.

Now, one might say, doesn't sound like COE is the game for you. Perhaps but as I suspect my behavior is more of a norm if COE Hope's to have hundreds of thousands of players they are going to need to appeal to me and others, or it risks going down quickly,  just as AC2 did.