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Forbes - The Saga Of A $300 Million Computer Game

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  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,601
    you dont need articles to point out the flaws in this project all you need is a calendar. Month after month year after year its the same excuses and same flawed logic. They 'improve' or 'fix' one or two things and break a half dozen others. But the shell still isnt even finished everything they do is calculated to get the most positive spin potential. But inevitably turns out to be another failure.

    Every time they might possibly make some step forward they announce another complete 're-do' of something that was deemed 'genre changing' only months before. Its laughable.

    All the white knights proclaim how earthshattering the game is while conventionality forgetting everything that has had to be started over from scratch. Not because it really had to (to actually improve anything) but mostly to keep the con going. Problem is theyre running out of things they have actually been able to accomplish (and re-do) and theyre eventually going to have to address the things they absolutely cannot do or finish because as its been mentioned for years, they cant be done the way they claimed, or at all.

    Its like a guy claiming he can build a 4 dimensional piece of art. He digs a few hundred holes andf places a few dozen sections but then he claims he has to redig the holes or move a few of the pieces to make it 'better' when he hasnt answered the obvious question...how are you going to make a four dimensional piece of art in the first place. Digging holes and placing parts of said art are obviously the easy part, actually having a four dimensional piece of art is the impossible part. Roberts and company have been re-digging and moving pieces around for the past 5 years. And they havent even gotten what equates to a kindergarten finger painting let alone a four dimensional piece of art.
    Gdemami
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    >>> Its like a guy claiming he can build a 4 dimensional piece of art. >>>

    *Puts a clock on a wall*

    Presto .... 4 dimensional art ... 3D space + time

    >>>>
    to address the things they absolutely cannot do or finish because as its been mentioned for years, they cant be done the way they claimed, or at all.
    >>>>

    And every time someone claimed "it cannot be done" .... CIG did it ...

    Then the "someone" moved the goalpost and claimed another thing "cannot be done" ... and CIG did it.

    Yes, it takes some time. Because it isn't easy. Because it is often an optimization problem.

    Thats why - for me personally - its okay if "it is done when it is done". I do NOT want more of the same old games. I want something new. A worthy successor to Star Wars Galaxies.  Something like Witcher 3 for space gamers. Something like Cyberpunk 2077 seems to become too. And i will play them all - the more, the better.


    Have fun


    GdemamiWalkinGlenn
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited June 2019
    Erillion said:
    >>> Its like a guy claiming he can build a 4 dimensional piece of art. >>>

    *Puts a clock on a wall*

    Presto .... 4 dimensional art ... 3D space + time

    >>>>
    to address the things they absolutely cannot do or finish because as its been mentioned for years, they cant be done the way they claimed, or at all.
    >>>>

    And every time someone claimed "it cannot be done" .... CIG did it ...

    Then the "someone" moved the goalpost and claimed another thing "cannot be done" ... and CIG did it.

    Yes, it takes some time. Because it isn't easy. Because it is often an optimization problem.

    Thats why - for me personally - its okay if "it is done when it is done". I do NOT want more of the same old games. I want something new. A worthy successor to Star Wars Galaxies.  Something like Witcher 3 for space gamers. Something like Cyberpunk 2077 seems to become too. And i will play them all - the more, the better.


    Have fun


    1) time is nothing like 4th dimension...oddly common misconception

    2) yes, CIG 'did it' although it isnt't anything to brag about, since their development and design is just awfully inefficient and...stupid(ie. seamless solar system flight)...

    3) there is nothing more difficult about SC development than any other mmo,it is just as pointed above - inefficient and stupid.

    4) so far, SC isn't showing anything,apart from money collected, that would set them apart from other games

    But hey...what do you know...
    KyleranWalkinGlenn[Deleted User]Kefo
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,767
    edited June 2019
    Erillion said:
    >>> Its like a guy claiming he can build a 4 dimensional piece of art. >>>

    *Puts a clock on a wall*

    Presto .... 4 dimensional art ... 3D space + time

    >>>>
    to address the things they absolutely cannot do or finish because as its been mentioned for years, they cant be done the way they claimed, or at all.
    >>>>

    And every time someone claimed "it cannot be done" .... CIG did it ...

    Then the "someone" moved the goalpost and claimed another thing "cannot be done" ... and CIG did it.

    Yes, it takes some time. Because it isn't easy. Because it is often an optimization problem.

    Thats why - for me personally - its okay if "it is done when it is done". I do NOT want more of the same old games. I want something new. A worthy successor to Star Wars Galaxies.  Something like Witcher 3 for space gamers. Something like Cyberpunk 2077 seems to become too. And i will play them all - the more, the better.


    Have fun


    Given enough time and money I'm sure everything is possible,  but a game which ends up possibly taking over 10 years to launch and a half a billion to create borders on ludicrous. 

    But hey, people keep sending in free money, so what do I know.

    One thought, if these new cloud based streaming game services really take off, combined with the next generation console launches, will there be enough gamers who still own a gaming PC to play SC? I know I will consider not buying a PC in the future.

    What are the odds SC will run well on these new platforms unless optimised to do so and do you suppose RI is thinking ahead on this sort of thing?



    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited June 2019
    rodarin said:
    ...how are you going to make a four dimensional piece of art in the first place. 
    ...like this?
    https://www.ka-gold-jewelry.com/p-products/tesseract-gold.php#bigimage_box
    ConstantineMerus[Deleted User]
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    edited June 2019
    Gdemami said:
    Erillion said:
    >>> Its like a guy claiming he can build a 4 dimensional piece of art. >>>

    *Puts a clock on a wall*

    Presto .... 4 dimensional art ... 3D space + time

    ***snip**


    Have fun


    1) time is nothing like 4th dimension...oddly common misconception

    Not a misconception. It is simply one of the possible interpretations:

    --> "Time is often thought of as the fourth dimension. Time plays a key role as a dimension in mathematical formulations of physical laws and theories such as general relativity and string theory. The qualitative behavior of time as the fourth dimension is debatable."

    -->  "...In 1908, Hermann Minkowski presented a paper consolidating the role of time as the fourth dimension of spacetime, the basis for Einstein's theories of special and general relativity."

    For other possible interpretations read in detail here:

    In newer works - string theory and post-Higgs-Boson-found-particle physics - with its 7 to 11+ dimensions, time has even more possible interpretations.


    Have fun


    GdemamiPhaserlight
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    Erillion said:
    It is simply one of the possible interpretations

    It is not.

    ...you better read links you provide or don't provide links to topics you cannot comprehend.
    [Deleted User]
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Gdemami said:
    Erillion said:
    It is simply one of the possible interpretations

    It is not.

    ...you better read links you provide or don't provide links to topics you cannot comprehend.

    Funny you say that. I studied physics. I have been at CERN. What about you ?


    Have fun


    JeffSpicoliGdemamiPhaserlight
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited June 2019
    Erillion said:
    Funny you say that. I studied physics. I have been at CERN. What about you ?


    Have fun


    ...if that was true(highly unlikely) it was an awful waste of money and time.

    No wonder you are so fond of SC development that much...
    JeffSpicoli[Deleted User]
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    Gdemami said:
    Erillion said:
    Funny you say that. I studied physics. I have been at CERN. What about you ?


    Have fun


    ...if that was true(highly unlikely) it was an awful waste of money and time.

    No wonder you are so fond of SC development that much...
    O boy.....




    EPIC Scientist battle inc
    ErillionKyleran[Deleted User]Phaserlight
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,381
    Gdemami said:
    Erillion said:
    It is simply one of the possible interpretations

    It is not.

    ...you better read links you provide or don't provide links to topics you cannot comprehend.
    Time can be counted as a dimension. If someone isn't more specific on what dimensions he wants, then time qualifies.

    However the clock would not really qualify because it's just a representation of time, or something measuring time, but not any more in the dimension of time than anything other. Something that would constantly change in more exciting ways than clock - for example a lava lamp - would qualify much better as piece of art where 3 dimensional it's nowhere near as impressive as it becomes when you take into account the 4th dimension of time. 
    GdemamiJeffSpicoli
     
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited June 2019
    Vrika said:
    Time can be counted as a dimension. 
    ...yes, in sci-fi.

    Not in physics nor mathematics.

    I guess this is where the confusion comes from:

    In common language, a dimension implies spatial dimension.

    In physics though, a dimension refers to a measurement on scale.

    In that sense, time is indeed dimension but not the spatial one. In physics/mathematics, time is required, used and refered to as a dimension, ie. Lorentz transformations, but it is just a variable for frame of reference.

    It is 'another dimension', a variable of spacetime, not a dimension of space.





    Post edited by Gdemami on
    newbismxJeffSpicoli[Deleted User]
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Gdemami said:
    Vrika said:
    Time can be counted as a dimension. 
    ...yes, in sci-fi.

    Not in physics nor mathematics.

    Minkowski might disagree ;-)


    There are several interpretations possible about the nature of time. The discussion goes on for over a hundreds years now. No commonly agreed consensus exists yet.

    Gdemamis position is one of the possible positions. But not the only possible one. ;-)


    Have fun

    GdemamiJeffSpicoli
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,351
    You Armchair Universe Creators are funny.  Until you have actually created a Universe you shouldn’t comment on things like Space-Time.  

    Stick to game development.  
    lahnmirKyleranJeffSpicoliVrikarpmcmurphyMadFrenchieKefoShaigh

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,815
    You Armchair Universe Creators are funny.  Until you have actually created a Universe you shouldn’t comment on things like Space-Time.  

    Stick to game development.  
    Pfffft, CR IS creating a Universe. Perhaps we all should ask him  ;)

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Octagon7711
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    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited June 2019
    Erillion said:
    Minkowski might disagree ;-)

    ...anyone can disagree but that does not make them right.

    There is a reason why concept of Minkowski space was embraced by sci-fi literature rather than physicists who actually abandoned it due lack of any rationale...
    JeffSpicolirpmcmurphy[Deleted User]Kefo
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    edited June 2019
    Gdemami said:
    Erillion said:
    Minkowski might disagree ;-)

    ...anyone can disagree but that does not make them right.

    There is a reason why concept of Minkowski space was embraced by sci-fi literature rather than physicists that actually abandoned it due lack of any rationale...
    As this is a discussion about Star Citizen and it would be too much off-topic to compress an ongoing 110 year debate into this thread... i once again refer those interested in the nature of time and the nature of dimensions to my initial wikipedia link. Everyone interested can read about the discussion in detail there. 

    Until the scientific community reaches consensus, for me there is no right (or wrong).

    Quite literally ... time will tell  ;-)


    Have fun


    PS:
    Gdemami .... of course you can continue the debate in private messages if you want

    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,767
    You Armchair Universe Creators are funny.  Until you have actually created a Universe you shouldn’t comment on things like Space-Time.  

    Stick to game development.  
    You win the internet for today.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,523
    Erillion said:
    Gdemami said:
    Erillion said:
    It is simply one of the possible interpretations

    It is not.

    ...you better read links you provide or don't provide links to topics you cannot comprehend.

    Funny you say that. I studied physics. I have been at CERN. What about you ?


    Have fun



    I can vouch for his ability to click the LOL button.
    ErillionMaxBaconVrika[Deleted User]

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

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  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,033
    Erillion said:
    Gdemami said:
    Erillion said:
    >>> Its like a guy claiming he can build a 4 dimensional piece of art. >>>

    *Puts a clock on a wall*

    Presto .... 4 dimensional art ... 3D space + time

    ***snip**


    Have fun


    1) time is nothing like 4th dimension...oddly common misconception

    Not a misconception. It is simply one of the possible interpretations:

    --> "Time is often thought of as the fourth dimension. Time plays a key role as a dimension in mathematical formulations of physical laws and theories such as general relativity and string theory. The qualitative behavior of time as the fourth dimension is debatable."

    -->  "...In 1908, Hermann Minkowski presented a paper consolidating the role of time as the fourth dimension of spacetime, the basis for Einstein's theories of special and general relativity."

    For other possible interpretations read in detail here:

    In newer works - string theory and post-Higgs-Boson-found-particle physics - with its 7 to 11+ dimensions, time has even more possible interpretations.


    Have fun


    Sooo... Copenhagen or Many Worlds?

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,601
    As usual every SC debate breaks down into THEORY being somehow used as 'proof'. Fitting I guess.

    But always fun watching guys using google and the link button on this stuff but never quite able to do it with something like SC which supposedly 'exists'. Or at least the 'stuff' they want to claim exists.
    GdemamiErillionNorseGod
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