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Would you have backed CU if you knew it would take this long?

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  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 6,036
    In answer to the OP, no. I pay for games when they release - never before.
    Axxar

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,418
    Hindsight is 20/20 but if we always just wait the project may never take off and you might have made the difference. 
    tweedledumb99Blueliner
    image
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 249
    Amathe said:
    In answer to the OP, no. I pay for games when they release - never before.
    This is a good approach, but good games come out of Kickstarter (Divinity Original Sin 1/2, A Hat in Time, as a few examples).

    This means there's value in Kickstarting games with solid developers who seem like they can get what they're promising done.
    Axxar
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,382
    edited July 7
    Amathe said:
    In answer to the OP, no. I pay for games when they release - never before.
    This is a good approach, but good games come out of Kickstarter (Divinity Original Sin 1/2, A Hat in Time, as a few examples).

    This means there's value in Kickstarting games with solid developers who seem like they can get what they're promising done.
    Single player games I'll agree, MMORPGs are a far more ambitious undertaking and few indies IMO have raised enough funding to even have a chance at delivering a decent game.

    Outside of SC, CF, CU, and perhaps Pantheon and Ashes most of the others IMO just don't have the funding in place to succeed. 
    Slapshot1188tweedledumb99klash2defGdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 249
    Kyleran said:
    Amathe said:
    In answer to the OP, no. I pay for games when they release - never before.
    This is a good approach, but good games come out of Kickstarter (Divinity Original Sin 1/2, A Hat in Time, as a few examples).

    This means there's value in Kickstarting games with solid developers who seem like they can get what they're promising done.
    Single player games I'll agree, MMORPGs are a far more ambitious undertaking and few indies IMO have raised enough funding to even have a chance at delivering a decent game.

    Outside of SC, CF, CU, and perhaps Pantheon and Ashes most of the others IMO just don't have the funding in place to succeed. 
    I agree that you need more funding to deliver a decent MMO than a decent SP game.

    And ya, those 5 are the only ones I'm paying attention to out of the in-development ones, also Chronicles of Elyria because I'm curious if they'll actually make something out of the concerning+plodding progress they're making.

    Controlling scope creep seems to be the order of the day, and CF, CU, Ashes and Pantheon all seem like they're doing a good job at that, so, hopefully in 2-3 years we'll have all of them released and all of them decent.


    Axxar
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 249
    edited July 8
    Also, was in a test for CU yesterday, had fun like no other test before it.

    Still needs work and more progress and stuff added etc, but this was the most fun I've had by far.

    Also needs some work on the documentation or in-game feedback end, cause I was getting dummied in melee by an archer while playing the best melee class, but the actual combat itself was fun.

    It's still gonna be between 18 and 30 more months (seewhatididthere?) til we see release on this game, but they should have the funding to make it to the end (they may get more $ from investors/publishers if needed, also I think MJ said he has access to 4-5million more he hasn't called for yet so they'd probably use that first).
    TigsKC
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,564
    I had 3 choices at the time to back financially. Was either Camelot Unchained, Pantheon or Crowfall. Of those 3, Pantheon offered more for what I'm interested in. The other 2, which are basically MMOlite Battle Royals are too focused on PvP and I've NEVER had a good experience in any PvP focused game.
    Mackaveli44Blueliner

  • nooffalnooffal Member UncommonPosts: 24
    I'm hopeful they will eventually get the pvp mechanics figured out. 

    My bigger  fear is the "why" or the "hook." Part of what made DAOC's pvp/rvr appealing was the pve and the actual realms you were a part of. Remove the pve and you care much less about your realm. It takes on more of a FPS style feel where you have a base that you defend while you tried to take over your opponents. 

    This was evidenced in the warhammer online model where the first 3 tiers of the game felt super fragmented and became waste lands you never returned too. It also made you care less about your realm and the world you were a part of.

    Even if they nail the pvp mechanics and keep sieges, there is much more that attracts a MMO fan. The depth of the world, exploration, stories, little areas to explore, etc... all play a critical role in establishing the "why." CU is a game engine with some pvp mechanics right now. While that still needs significant time to complete, depth of experience and world is another massive effort on top of that.


    DMKanokenguru23tweedledumb99Torvalcheeba
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,576
    nooffal said:
    I'm hopeful they will eventually get the pvp mechanics figured out. 

    My bigger  fear is the "why" or the "hook." Part of what made DAOC's pvp/rvr appealing was the pve and the actual realms you were a part of. Remove the pve and you care much less about your realm. It takes on more of a FPS style feel where you have a base that you defend while you tried to take over your opponents. 

    This was evidenced in the warhammer online model where the first 3 tiers of the game felt super fragmented and became waste lands you never returned too. It also made you care less about your realm and the world you were a part of.

    Even if they nail the pvp mechanics and keep sieges, there is much more that attracts a MMO fan. The depth of the world, exploration, stories, little areas to explore, etc... all play a critical role in establishing the "why." CU is a game engine with some pvp mechanics right now. While that still needs significant time to complete, depth of experience and world is another massive effort on top of that.



    I agree so much with everything said here.

    The time this is taking is far less of a problem than - will this be any fun to play once out.

    That is a far bigger problem. So far - they have a huge amount of work to do to make me want to play this.
    ScotTorvalKylerancheeba
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,107
    edited July 13
    DMKano said:
    nooffal said:
    I'm hopeful they will eventually get the pvp mechanics figured out. 

    My bigger  fear is the "why" or the "hook." Part of what made DAOC's pvp/rvr appealing was the pve and the actual realms you were a part of. Remove the pve and you care much less about your realm. It takes on more of a FPS style feel where you have a base that you defend while you tried to take over your opponents. 

    This was evidenced in the warhammer online model where the first 3 tiers of the game felt super fragmented and became waste lands you never returned too. It also made you care less about your realm and the world you were a part of.

    Even if they nail the pvp mechanics and keep sieges, there is much more that attracts a MMO fan. The depth of the world, exploration, stories, little areas to explore, etc... all play a critical role in establishing the "why." CU is a game engine with some pvp mechanics right now. While that still needs significant time to complete, depth of experience and world is another massive effort on top of that.



    I agree so much with everything said here.

    The time this is taking is far less of a problem than - will this be any fun to play once out.

    That is a far bigger problem. So far - they have a huge amount of work to do to make me want to play this.
    I could not care less how long they take, if it is good and the sort of MMO I would play I will be there. The only reason I follow development is the CEO is a drama magnet which can be quite amusing. :)

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  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 249
    nooffal said:
    I'm hopeful they will eventually get the pvp mechanics figured out. 

    My bigger  fear is the "why" or the "hook." Part of what made DAOC's pvp/rvr appealing was the pve and the actual realms you were a part of. Remove the pve and you care much less about your realm. It takes on more of a FPS style feel where you have a base that you defend while you tried to take over your opponents. 

    This was evidenced in the warhammer online model where the first 3 tiers of the game felt super fragmented and became waste lands you never returned too. It also made you care less about your realm and the world you were a part of.

    Even if they nail the pvp mechanics and keep sieges, there is much more that attracts a MMO fan. The depth of the world, exploration, stories, little areas to explore, etc... all play a critical role in establishing the "why." CU is a game engine with some pvp mechanics right now. While that still needs significant time to complete, depth of experience and world is another massive effort on top of that.


    I agree there needs to be a hook thru an emotional attachment to the realm, and I don't think killing mobs/raids/doing quests is required to make this happen.

    An emotional attachment to the realm and its actions doesn't mean you can't play all three realms - just that when you're playing TDD, you care about your (non-jerk***) realmmates at least slightly more than random enemies.
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 249
    DMKano said:
    nooffal said:
    I'm hopeful they will eventually get the pvp mechanics figured out. 

    My bigger  fear is the "why" or the "hook." Part of what made DAOC's pvp/rvr appealing was the pve and the actual realms you were a part of. Remove the pve and you care much less about your realm. It takes on more of a FPS style feel where you have a base that you defend while you tried to take over your opponents. 

    This was evidenced in the warhammer online model where the first 3 tiers of the game felt super fragmented and became waste lands you never returned too. It also made you care less about your realm and the world you were a part of.

    Even if they nail the pvp mechanics and keep sieges, there is much more that attracts a MMO fan. The depth of the world, exploration, stories, little areas to explore, etc... all play a critical role in establishing the "why." CU is a game engine with some pvp mechanics right now. While that still needs significant time to complete, depth of experience and world is another massive effort on top of that.



    I agree so much with everything said here.

    The time this is taking is far less of a problem than - will this be any fun to play once out.

    That is a far bigger problem. So far - they have a huge amount of work to do to make me want to play this.
    This is the big question for any game that's still in development, including this one.

    It's too soon to say whether it'll be fun.

    I was in testing today, and had fun, but there's a lot more work to make complete and enjoyable game loops, social features (at all levels of the game), etc.
    Kyleran
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,798
    DMKano said:
    nooffal said:
    I'm hopeful they will eventually get the pvp mechanics figured out. 

    My bigger  fear is the "why" or the "hook." Part of what made DAOC's pvp/rvr appealing was the pve and the actual realms you were a part of. Remove the pve and you care much less about your realm. It takes on more of a FPS style feel where you have a base that you defend while you tried to take over your opponents. 

    This was evidenced in the warhammer online model where the first 3 tiers of the game felt super fragmented and became waste lands you never returned too. It also made you care less about your realm and the world you were a part of.

    Even if they nail the pvp mechanics and keep sieges, there is much more that attracts a MMO fan. The depth of the world, exploration, stories, little areas to explore, etc... all play a critical role in establishing the "why." CU is a game engine with some pvp mechanics right now. While that still needs significant time to complete, depth of experience and world is another massive effort on top of that.



    I agree so much with everything said here.

    The time this is taking is far less of a problem than - will this be any fun to play once out.

    That is a far bigger problem. So far - they have a huge amount of work to do to make me want to play this.
    Agreed as well. The reason PvP meant something in Lineage 1 is because of the PvE. People sieged to own PvE dungeons that would drop stuff they could use or sell to get better in PvP. In my opinion the PvPvE with dynamic social politics is what has made the game the mega hit it is.


    I agree there needs to be a hook thru an emotional attachment to the realm, and I don't think killing mobs/raids/doing quests is required to make this happen.

    An emotional attachment to the realm and its actions doesn't mean you can't play all three realms - just that when you're playing TDD, you care about your (non-jerk***) realmmates at least slightly more than random enemies.
    It should mean that you can only ever play one of those factions on a server at a time.

    Scottweedledumb99
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

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  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 249
    Torval said:
    DMKano said:
    nooffal said:
    I'm hopeful they will eventually get the pvp mechanics figured out. 

    My bigger  fear is the "why" or the "hook." Part of what made DAOC's pvp/rvr appealing was the pve and the actual realms you were a part of. Remove the pve and you care much less about your realm. It takes on more of a FPS style feel where you have a base that you defend while you tried to take over your opponents. 

    This was evidenced in the warhammer online model where the first 3 tiers of the game felt super fragmented and became waste lands you never returned too. It also made you care less about your realm and the world you were a part of.

    Even if they nail the pvp mechanics and keep sieges, there is much more that attracts a MMO fan. The depth of the world, exploration, stories, little areas to explore, etc... all play a critical role in establishing the "why." CU is a game engine with some pvp mechanics right now. While that still needs significant time to complete, depth of experience and world is another massive effort on top of that.



    I agree so much with everything said here.

    The time this is taking is far less of a problem than - will this be any fun to play once out.

    That is a far bigger problem. So far - they have a huge amount of work to do to make me want to play this.
    Agreed as well. The reason PvP meant something in Lineage 1 is because of the PvE. People sieged to own PvE dungeons that would drop stuff they could use or sell to get better in PvP. In my opinion the PvPvE with dynamic social politics is what has made the game the mega hit it is.


    I agree there needs to be a hook thru an emotional attachment to the realm, and I don't think killing mobs/raids/doing quests is required to make this happen.

    An emotional attachment to the realm and its actions doesn't mean you can't play all three realms - just that when you're playing TDD, you care about your (non-jerk***) realmmates at least slightly more than random enemies.
    It should mean that you can only ever play one of those factions on a server at a time.

    @Torval Yep, thats how theyre doing it.

    But people will play diff servers cause they have fave classes in different realms, different groups of gaming friends, etc.

    @anyone: CU for me has gotten way more fun in tests over the past 4 months.

    For the first 4+ years it was like a 1/10 or 2/10, then by beta 1 it was like 2.5/10, then with building destruction and castle siege it got to like 3.5/10. Over the past few months it's gone up to a 5.5/10. If it stays stagnant here, I won't want to play it. But there's no reason to believe they'll immediately just stop making the game better. So I'm excited to see what the next few months bring.
    Kyleran
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,160
    Kyleran said:
    Quizzical said:
    Kyleran said:
    Here's the thing, the gaming landscape is undergoing major paradigm shifts with VR, AR,  next gen consoles/PC hardware and soon all of the new streaming services.

    Will CU and other indies be able to keep pace and finally launch or will they need to go back and retool their games yet again to take best advantage of the new market.

    By the time CU launches, I may very well decide to put away the PC for good and migrate to playing games on consoles or streaming platforms and very likely I'll have a lot of company. 
    Nonsense, though different points are wrong for a variety of reasons.

    VR becoming mainstream to the point that gamers commonly spend hours per day playing it is still a long way off.  Evolutionary advances on existing hardware aren't going to get us there anytime soon.  If we ever reach the point that more gamers say "I won't play that game because it's not VR" than "I won't play that game because it requires VR", that won't come until long after CU is either launched or canceled.

    The gaming move to consoles happened about 40 years ago.  If anything, the direction in the last twenty years has been from consoles to PCs more than the other way around.  You could personally do whatever, but that doesn't mean it's going to be common.

    Game streaming doesn't fundamentally rely on anything about the particular game.  Thin clients can already run arbitrary programs.  There are probably some little optimizations you'd want in order to make streaming less bad than it would otherwise be, but if they need to make those optimizations, they can make them when the time comes.  A heavy move to game streaming wouldn't kill CU unless it goes a long way toward killing off gaming in general.

    And even if any of the paradigm changes you expect do become prevalent, the creation of a new market doesn't mean that the old ones go away.  The last several years have seen the rise of a lot of bad mobile cash grabs, but that doesn't mean that all other games vanished.  There are still plenty of PC games being created and sold.
    Since 2010 sales of desktop PCs has steadily declined from 158M units shipped to a projected 79.5M by 2023.

    Laptops sales are fairing a bit better, only declining from 209M in 2011 to 170M, but many of those are likely not capable of running this sort of game well.

    As this game is being targeted to run "well" on a mid range desk top PC is it unreasonable to assume there are fewer customers capable of buying and playing this game?

    More people are gaming now than ever before, perhaps just not on their desktop PCs.


    https://www.statista.com/statistics/272595/global-shipments-forecast-for-tablets-laptops-and-desktop-pcs/

    There is a qualifier though, sales of gaming PCs has actually been on the rise recently due to the growing eSport market but it remains to be seen how much crossover there might be for those buyers and this sort of title, my guess is not so much.

    https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/gaming-pc-sales/?linker=1*uzfehw*clientId*bUVvaXYya3B5Vk1jdjhHU19xcTJ4QzZXeXN4SXV5blBQNWlYb0taTFNSR2tlSC1iUS1JcjBBcS04NGdoT0F5Nw..

    I agree with the assessment VR is likely to remain mostly an outlier, but if the new game streaming services really take hold will CU and other MMOs run well on them, or will devs need to spend more time and effort making sure they do so?
    A major reason why desktop and laptop sales are down is that hardware isn't advancing as fast as it used to, so it takes much longer before performance is unacceptable.  Just last year, I replaced a desktop that I built in 2009, and it still gives decent performance.  It had been upgraded some since then, but still had the original CPU and motherboard, among other things.  Twenty years ago, a desktop with a 9 year old CPU would be pretty much unusable.

    For game streaming services, the question isn't whether they can get MMOs to run well on them so much as whether they can get anything at all to run well.  If it takes game-specific optimizations to make that happen, then most likely it will be one of two cases:

    1)  The optimizations only deal with timing when a handful of particular things are sent, so they only affect a very small portion of the game engine, and it's easy to retrofit the changes later if you control your own game engine.
    2)  The optimizations necessary greatly restrict what can be done with gameplay, to the extent that most game mechanics that you might want are ruled out and a game that is optimized for streaming won't be fun.  This is more likely than you might think, as the delta compression that thin clients use chokes if you have too much of the screen constantly changing at once.

    Either way, games in development now wouldn't be able to do anything to prepare for it.
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,382
    edited July 15
    With Windows 7 being unsupported next year I realize I am still using a perfectly serviceable Acer laptop for my work and day to day affairs which I got in 2010.

    My gaming laptop is over 4 years old yet continues to handle any game I'm interested in with no problem.

    A far cry different than back in 2002 to 2010 when it seemed like my hardware went obsolete in 2 yrs or so.

    Also, just read an article somewhere that said in the EU PC Games are crushing it, dominating many of the top spots on the charts.

    So the good news is we should have plenty of great games on the PC regardless how other platforms grow. (Whether CU will be one of them remains to be seen)

    At the end of the day I still feel the PC is the superior gaming platform which I'll be likely staying with for quite some time.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • RumblerBRumblerB Member UncommonPosts: 6
    I agree the tests are getting better by the week. Each week they put up a new build and I notice small improvements in the game across the board: graphics/lightning improvements, sound tweaks, better usability, bug fixes, gameplay tweaks, etc. This has been going on for the past few months, which has led to a significant improvement to the look and feel of the game.

    It's one of the few times I've seen a crowdfunding dev say "now that the tools and tech are in place, we can focus on pumping out game improvements faster" and then actually follow through on that statement and show significant progress on gameplay development.

    Obviously CU still has a long way to go, but in the current state I find it a fun enough experience to warrant logging in and messing around for a few hours in the tests.

    The addition of the ability builder has made the character building process much more complicated and in-depth, but also introduced a ton of ridiculous imbalances. However, for every crazy OP ability build on one faction, there's an equally OP build on the other faction just waiting to be discovered. There's no information out there yet about how to build characters effectively, so there's no meta that everyone follows. This has led to a wild west type situation where the balance in a given match swings wildly depending on individual players with super powerful ability/character builds.

    My favorite aspect of RPGs is tinkering with different character builds and figuring out OP combinations, so that aspect of the CU beta is right up my alley. It's obviously a primitive representation of the full game, but it's also a unique environment that can be some good fun if you just accept it for what it is.
    tweedledumb99JamesGoblin
  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 249
    edited July 19
    RumblerB said:
    I agree the tests are getting better by the week. Each week they put up a new build and I notice small improvements in the game across the board: graphics/lightning improvements, sound tweaks, better usability, bug fixes, gameplay tweaks, etc. This has been going on for the past few months, which has led to a significant improvement to the look and feel of the game.

    It's one of the few times I've seen a crowdfunding dev say "now that the tools and tech are in place, we can focus on pumping out game improvements faster" and then actually follow through on that statement and show significant progress on gameplay development.

    Obviously CU still has a long way to go, but in the current state I find it a fun enough experience to warrant logging in and messing around for a few hours in the tests.

    The addition of the ability builder has made the character building process much more complicated and in-depth, but also introduced a ton of ridiculous imbalances. However, for every crazy OP ability build on one faction, there's an equally OP build on the other faction just waiting to be discovered. There's no information out there yet about how to build characters effectively, so there's no meta that everyone follows. This has led to a wild west type situation where the balance in a given match swings wildly depending on individual players with super powerful ability/character builds.

    My favorite aspect of RPGs is tinkering with different character builds and figuring out OP combinations, so that aspect of the CU beta is right up my alley. It's obviously a primitive representation of the full game, but it's also a unique environment that can be some good fun if you just accept it for what it is.
    This is a great post, I love to see other people's takes on the testing - helps me understand my own experiences in game better (e.g. realizing it's not me sucking, it's me fighting people with wildly OP builds).

    Vaguely related - One of the best things I've seen about the testing is: regardless of any individual player's build, a team that works together can absolutely demolish an equally sized or larger team of players who don't communicate + coordinate. It's so much in the direction of prioritizing teamplay for success, that I think they need to tone it down a bit - a couple players who have thought out their complementary abilities well can whoop ass against 5x their number without too much effort.

    But the fact that team play is so critical to success is hugely important to me, because of the game's foundational principles of the Realm War (RvR) being the only game in CU. In order for that to actually work, people need incentives to work together to complete Objectives (official tasks, with in-game rewards, that you complete for your realm or for a campaign) or objectives (informal tasks e.g. your group raiding reinforcements to a big fight and cutting that supply of fresh fighters [though this kind of objective could be a formal campaign or realm Objective as well!]).

    And the biggest incentive to work together effectively in a PvP or RvR game is the incentive of being able to smash the opposition, even when they have more numbers than you.

    I still do want them to tone it down (was in a fight of 9 Tuatha vs. 2 Arthurians and the Arthurians were unkillable), but they're starting from the right direction.
    JamesGoblin
  • CallsignVegaCallsignVega Member UncommonPosts: 287
    DAoC had/has a winning formula. Basically all they had to do was take it, update the graphics/engine, create a new world, work on the netcode to make more players feasible and bam, you've got a winner. I'm a bit worried that after so much time and what they show now is quite weak. 
    meddyckViper482
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,415
    I backed when they went into beta, thinking it might take a year or so to release.

    I currently have no confidence that it will ever release, but even if it does, I have even less confidence that the RvR / gameplay will be even remotely as good as what is already available in ESO or even GW2.


    Viper482JamesGoblinmeddyck
    ....
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,558
    edited September 27
    I remember the Wheel of Time,i played that game,it was based off the unreal engine.Not really much of a game ..lol.
    Anyhow,someone said "obsessed "with large scale battles.I do not think they are obsessed at all,i feel that is their ONLY selling point.

    Small low budget teams cannot produce content rich games,all they can offer is a open world pvp and not much else or what can typical;ly be called a survival game.Imo these studios should just go for the survival game mode because they are never going to produce a AAA mmorpg..like NEVER.
    Crowfall is in a similar place,it'll just be a pvp battlegrounds,the only difference is they saw a gimmick to attract people and realize a cash shop with the castle idea.IMO the castle idea is cheap and constricted,it wouldn't sell to me at all.

    Point is that i get the feeling a lot of people THINK these survival type games are going to be fully fledged mmorpg's and they are NOT.


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,771
    edited September 27
    RumblerB said:
    I agree the tests are getting better by the week. Each week they put up a new build and I notice small improvements in the game across the board: graphics/lightning improvements, sound tweaks, better usability, bug fixes, gameplay tweaks, etc. This has been going on for the past few months, which has led to a significant improvement to the look and feel of the game.

    It's one of the few times I've seen a crowdfunding dev say "now that the tools and tech are in place, we can focus on pumping out game improvements faster" and then actually follow through on that statement and show significant progress on gameplay development.

    Obviously CU still has a long way to go, but in the current state I find it a fun enough experience to warrant logging in and messing around for a few hours in the tests.

    The addition of the ability builder has made the character building process much more complicated and in-depth, but also introduced a ton of ridiculous imbalances. However, for every crazy OP ability build on one faction, there's an equally OP build on the other faction just waiting to be discovered. There's no information out there yet about how to build characters effectively, so there's no meta that everyone follows. This has led to a wild west type situation where the balance in a given match swings wildly depending on individual players with super powerful ability/character builds.

    My favorite aspect of RPGs is tinkering with different character builds and figuring out OP combinations, so that aspect of the CU beta is right up my alley. It's obviously a primitive representation of the full game, but it's also a unique environment that can be some good fun if you just accept it for what it is.
    This is a great post, I love to see other people's takes on the testing - helps me understand my own experiences in game better (e.g. realizing it's not me sucking, it's me fighting people with wildly OP builds).

    Vaguely related - One of the best things I've seen about the testing is: regardless of any individual player's build, a team that works together can absolutely demolish an equally sized or larger team of players who don't communicate + coordinate. It's so much in the direction of prioritizing teamplay for success, that I think they need to tone it down a bit - a couple players who have thought out their complementary abilities well can whoop ass against 5x their number without too much effort.

    But the fact that team play is so critical to success is hugely important to me, because of the game's foundational principles of the Realm War (RvR) being the only game in CU. In order for that to actually work, people need incentives to work together to complete Objectives (official tasks, with in-game rewards, that you complete for your realm or for a campaign) or objectives (informal tasks e.g. your group raiding reinforcements to a big fight and cutting that supply of fresh fighters [though this kind of objective could be a formal campaign or realm Objective as well!]).

    And the biggest incentive to work together effectively in a PvP or RvR game is the incentive of being able to smash the opposition, even when they have more numbers than you.

    I still do want them to tone it down (was in a fight of 9 Tuatha vs. 2 Arthurians and the Arthurians were unkillable), but they're starting from the right direction.

    If you want the game to be a complete failure this is a good thing. These games require population, and big population means lots of casual players. Casuals are going to be looking to roll with warbands. 

    Either way....this is RvR. For me RvR should not be a small elite team based thing, go play Overwatch. RvR is supposed to be large scale with warbands fighting each other on a huge battlefield. Small hit and run teams who play smart like Spec Ops Forces should be part of that, but a small team should not be able to destroy an entire warband. SOF101, a large conventional force will destroy a small SOF unit outside of Hollywood. They avoid them, they don't engage them.
    JamesGoblin
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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,973
    The main thing, is that they pushed the thing the game is on beta when it's far from that stage of dev at this moment. Thankfully at least instead of pushing this whole raw thing as the beta the game is getting a longer delay to develop it so much needs
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,382
    edited November 3
    MaxBacon said:
    The main thing, is that they pushed the thing the game is on beta when it's far from that stage of dev at this moment. Thankfully at least instead of pushing this whole raw thing as the beta the game is getting a longer delay to develop it so much needs
    My opinion only....

    Recall back in Jan 2018 CU received a significant amount of new investor funding. 

    https://venturebeat.com/2018/01/18/camelot-unchained-isnt-in-the-dark-ages-anymore-after-raising-7-5-million/

    As development was approaching the five year mark in April that same year I believe he promised the investors CU would be in "Beta One" by mid-year.

    Like most developers today he "defines" terms like alpha or beta to whatever suits his needs hence what they have completed even today is far from what most would consider a beta state.

    As someone else mentioned, CU appears to have far less done than SC who remains firmly in alpha and is accurate in the latter's case.

    Mark is often lauded for his openness and honesty but he can double speak with the best of them.

    You'll note he regularly visits and replies to comments when MOP does a story but totally avoids coming here anymore as he knows he can't control the conversation nearly as well and MOP sort of shills for/protects  devs they like.
    gervaise1

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,973
    Kyleran said:
    MaxBacon said:
    The main thing, is that they pushed the thing the game is on beta when it's far from that stage of dev at this moment. Thankfully at least instead of pushing this whole raw thing as the beta the game is getting a longer delay to develop it so much needs
    My opinion only....

    Recall back in Jan 2018 CU received a significant amount of new investor funding. 

    https://venturebeat.com/2018/01/18/camelot-unchained-isnt-in-the-dark-ages-anymore-after-raising-7-5-million/

    As development was approaching the five year mark in April that same year I believe he promised the investors CU would be in "Beta One" by mid-year.

    Like most developers today he "defines" terms like alpha or beta to whatever suits his needs hence what they have completed even today is far from what most would consider a beta state.

    As someone else mentioned, CU appears to have far less done than SC who remains firmly in alpha and is accurate in the latter's case.

    Mark is often lauded for his openness and honesty but he can double speak with the best of them.

    You'll note he regularly visits and replies to comments when MOP does a story but totally avoids coming here anymore as he knows he can't control the conversation nearly as well and MOP sort of shills for/protects  devs they like.


    The Alpha & Beta are still well defined and very easy to perceive from the stage of a game at this point.

    What I worried on CU that they would pull off something developers have been doing to claim they "meet their release date", that is branding something of beta / released that is clearly not on that stage, just so that liability is cleared.

    The flashbacks to steam early access releases now lmao
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