Would you have backed CU if you knew it would take this long?

MightyUnclean

Would you have backed Camelot Unchained if you knew that it would still be in development six years later with no end in sight?

Viper482

No. I am particularly upset that they are trying to pass this early/mid alpha off as a beta. 

Luiden

I don't think so, it feels like the Wheel of Time to be honest.. or specifically what happened to Robert Jordan.  Everybody kept praising Robert for his incredible level of detail and his later books were 1000 page plus novels that didn't move the story along at all because he was obsessed with detail.   

It feels like CU is obsessed with large scale wars and getting as many people into 1 spot as possible... but let's be honest here, massive large scale war isn't exactly all that exciting.  It's fun to do a few times but the real enjoyment comes from small scale combat, taking objectives in a timely order.. not fighting for 12 hours straight only to knock down 1 wall. 

It just feels like all their effort and testing goes into 1 aspect of the game.. if that is the only thing this game does at release I'm going to be really pissed.     

Tiller

Never back MMOs, it's always a disappointment, even if it does eventually launch.

Fearum

Yes.

Slapshot1188

Based on what was offered in the package for $50 I'd have to say yes.

Young Warrior: This “early adopter” tier gets all the NEW RECRUIT rewards (below) and THESE UPGRADES: an ADDITIONAL 15 FOUNDER’S POINTS (25 total) + ONE ADDITIONAL FREE MONTH (two total) + SILVER FORUM BADGE + BETA 1 ACCESS. In addition, you receive ONE DIGITAL, DRM-FREE COPY OF GAME’S SOUNDTRACK+ SPECIAL THANKS IN THE IN-GAME CREDITS + FOUNDER’S ICON for your crafter character(s) + ACCESS TO THE REALM-RESTRICTED FOUNDER’S CHAT + ONE EXTRA BETA 3 INVITE + ONE ADDITIONAL CHARACTER SLOT AT LAUNCH. 

New Recruit:You get ONE DIGITAL COPY OF Camelot Unchained (all copies of Camelot Unchained come with at least a one month subscription) + OFFICIAL THANK YOU from all of us at CSE + REALM BUILDER HONOR + IN-GAME BADGE OF PIONEER + FIVE FOUNDER’S POINTS for buyers of March On Oz (CSE Bonus Points) + TEN FOUNDER’S POINTS + ACCESS TO THE FOUNDER’S EXCHANGE to redeem your Founder’s Points + “LIVING” DIGITAL MANUAL + SPECIAL IN-GAME TITLE + FOUNDER’S GRAVESTONE + BRONZE FORUM BADGE + SPECIAL FOUNDER’S APP for iOS and Android, FOUNDER’S RINGTONES AND WALLPAPER + “LIVING” DIGITAL STRATEGY GUIDE + INVITATION TO ALL STRESS TESTS and GUARANTEED ACCESS TO BETA 2. 

Plus I could always get my money back as they STILL offer refunds!

MightyUnclean

Viper482 said:

No. I am particularly upset that they are trying to pass this early/mid alpha off as a beta. 

Yeah, it's pretty clear that it is not a traditional beta.  I don't get why they would be so transparent about their development process, and then be misleading about this.  I guess if they said after six years that they were still in alpha, a ton of potential players would lose faith.

Cryomatrix

Robert Jordan books pissed me off. Each book was worse than the one prior. I remember reading 100's of pages of shit with no movement of the story and it kept getting worse and worse. I didn't even bother reading the last 2 books because I had it with his bullshit. 

AlmostLancelot

Luiden said:

I don't think so, it feels like the Wheel of Time to be honest.. or specifically what happened to Robert Jordan.  Everybody kept praising Robert for his incredible level of detail and his later books were 1000 page plus novels that didn't move the story along at all because he was obsessed with detail.   

It feels like CU is obsessed with large scale wars and getting as many people into 1 spot as possible... but let's be honest here, massive large scale war isn't exactly all that exciting.  It's fun to do a few times but the real enjoyment comes from small scale combat, taking objectives in a timely order.. not fighting for 12 hours straight only to knock down 1 wall. 

It just feels like all their effort and testing goes into 1 aspect of the game.. if that is the only thing this game does at release I'm going to be really pissed.     

It was the same problem that plagued Stephen King as well.

The guy is a brilliant author, but can spend fifteen pages describing a forest. After a while it just starts to get old.

Kyleran

AlmostLancelot said:

Luiden said:

I don't think so, it feels like the Wheel of Time to be honest.. or specifically what happened to Robert Jordan.  Everybody kept praising Robert for his incredible level of detail and his later books were 1000 page plus novels that didn't move the story along at all because he was obsessed with detail.   

It feels like CU is obsessed with large scale wars and getting as many people into 1 spot as possible... but let's be honest here, massive large scale war isn't exactly all that exciting.  It's fun to do a few times but the real enjoyment comes from small scale combat, taking objectives in a timely order.. not fighting for 12 hours straight only to knock down 1 wall. 

It just feels like all their effort and testing goes into 1 aspect of the game.. if that is the only thing this game does at release I'm going to be really pissed.     

It was the same problem that plagued Stephen King as well.

The guy is a brilliant author, but can spend fifteen pages describing a forest. After a while it just starts to get old.

The Dark Tower Series being the most notable in my mind....

Kyleran

MightyUnclean said:

Would you have backed Camelot Unchained if you knew that it would still be in development six years later with no end in sight?

Honestly?  No.  I would have waited until they were much closer to launch which I've done with most every other early access game.

Meaning, outside of Albion Online and CU, no one else has received any of my money.

Relampago

I remember writing here that I backed CU and Crowfall and thought Crowfall will come out sooner when the CU white knights came out.  I am not upset about backing either I have faith in Mark and CU but I believe I am also a realist.  This one will be in the oven for a while.

kitarad

Most backers have unrealistic expectations. This is no exception.

meddyck

If I knew in 2013 what I know now, I think I still would have backed it but only at the lowest tier that came with a copy of the game (Bleached Bones $25) rather than the tier I actually backed. I still would have wanted to help the KS fund so that the game would even have a chance of being made, but I would have had much lower expectations for how fun it would be for me and launching in 2020/2021 rather than 2015 for sure would have made it a much less appealing investment.

bcbully

MightyUnclean said:

Viper482 said:

No. I am particularly upset that they are trying to pass this early/mid alpha off as a beta. 

Yeah, it's pretty clear that it is not a traditional beta.  I don't get why they would be so transparent about their development process, and then be misleading about this.  I guess if they said after six years that they were still in alpha, a ton of potential players would lose faith.

Well I can remember a time when players were not it invited to alpha... we only beta tested... it could take a year...

Finvega

I went and got a degree in Beta Test Scheduling so I could better understand why testing dates and times needed to line up with the Astrological Signs of the developer's. 

So now I am cool with all that, and ya...whatever. 

Kyleran

kitarad said:

Most backers have unrealistic expectations. This is no exception.

C'mon now, MJ, an experienced developer projected a two year completion time frame.

Most backers knew that was a "bit" aggressive but as we've just gone past six years with no revised release date yet is it really unrealistic to expect one?

mklinic

I believe I would have. To date, they've been pretty decent with communication and I feel like I've gotten my money's worth in entertainment value (between updates, news letters, streams, etc). It's been an interesting peek behind the curtain that I otherwise might not have gotten. I didn't back at what I would consider to be a high level, so other people's mileage may vary.

That said, isn't the question a bit moot since, as far as I am aware, backers can still request refunds? I get the point of reflecting, but then anyone who has become dissatisfied has a remedy. If they've put an end to refunds, then disregard. I may just be a bit behind...

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

kitarad said:

Most backers have unrealistic expectations. This is no exception.

C'mon now, MJ, an experienced developer projected a two year completion time frame.

Most backers knew that was a "bit" aggressive but as we've just gone past six years with no revised release date yet is it really unrealistic to expect one?

Totally agree. The Devs are the ones that set the expectations.  If MJ didn’t offer refunds I would be hounding him, but to me that makes all the difference as tomorrow I could just decide that it’s been too long and get my money back. If anything, the delays just hurt MJ as he has had to sell off parts of his product/company to investors and has no run weekly,monthly sales like most other multi-year late Crowdfunded MMORPGs do. He is feeling the pain of the delays.

Sovrath

Luiden said:

I don't think so, it feels like the Wheel of Time to be honest.. or specifically what happened to Robert Jordan.  Everybody kept praising Robert for his incredible level of detail and his later books were 1000 page plus novels that didn't move the story along at all because he was obsessed with detail.   

It feels like CU is obsessed with large scale wars and getting as many people into 1 spot as possible... but let's be honest here, massive large scale war isn't exactly all that exciting.  It's fun to do a few times but the real enjoyment comes from small scale combat, taking objectives in a timely order.. not fighting for 12 hours straight only to knock down 1 wall. 

It just feels like all their effort and testing goes into 1 aspect of the game.. if that is the only thing this game does at release I'm going to be really pissed.     

Not for me, I absolutely love large scale wars. Prefer them. Best Siege in Lineage 2 was so large everyone stood still on screen in the initial charge and my game crashed. Once I restarted it was simply the best 2 hours I had in an mmo.

I've backed Camelot unchained, they send updates all the time and I'm not really disappointed.

Mendel

I decided long ago that being a 'backer' wasn't something I was interested in.  Why should I fund another guy's development dreams, especially without any security?  In hindsight, I think my blood pressure has benefited most from that decision.

Galadourn

Coming to think about it... yes; a noble/honest goal is always worth the support, even if time schedules and deadlines fly out the windows.

Quizzical

No.  And I didn't back it as it was.  Launch a game and I'll have a look and see if I want to "back" it at that point by paying to play it.

UltorX

It's taking awfully long but they have such a small team I'm not really surprised.
They keep backers constantly in the loop though, lots and lots of information for you to check out if you want to know how it looks behind the curtain.

Whatever happens it was still worth taking a shot just to show support for the kind of design ideas/stance on microtransactions that were behind the game.

centkin

The problem with a game that takes too long to create is often the tools "expire."  You end up being a game built on version 2.1 tools when new things are on 4.0, and once you have a bunch of game made, upgrading the toolset becomes nearly impossible.  That program you were coding for windows 98 now has to work on windows xp.

This isn't as big of an issue as it was when computers were doubling in speed every couple of years, and windows 10 is forever so things are somewhat more stable, but it still hurts your efforts.

Still, think of developing for the video cards that existed in 2013 and knowing they will have to work well on the 2020 versions.

Amathe

Camelot, 'tis a silly place.